hillary has become a bernie clone...how stupid does the campaign think we are?

[restorefreedom]

first keystone xl. then she is "not in favor" (today) about what she reads on tpp. now she has some up with a "plan" to reform wall street?

this is a transparent attempt to stop her freefall and get through next weeks debate as a "progressive."

in the increasingly unlikely event she gets the nomination, she and her third way pals will sell us all up the river on all these issues and more.

fortunately, the voters can see through this pathetic and embarrassing display of political shapeshifting.

i did not agree with most of her positions, but at least she had positions to disagree with. this is just sad.

[NuclearDem]

1. "how stupid does the campaign think we are?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=650529

[Godhumor]

4. Very rarely does a post containing nothing but a link make me laugh

But this one legitimately did.

Bravo.

[zappaman]

32. Wow! Nailed it in one!

[Hortensis]

41. We should be glad all Dem candidates are on the same page.

That they all basically agree on policy is hardly new and should be not be a cause for surprise. We should also realize that all these issues are much bigger than one person. No one gets to "own" any of them.

They're ours.

Remember?

[zappaman]

42. Um....

Yeah?

[Hortensis]

43. Here's a bit of her financial regulation record since 2006,

link to the whole thing below. Please note that she said little on domestic policy as Secretary of State, but her record prior to 2006 goes way back. At bottom is a link to a Politifact piece rating her claim of worrying about markets instability and calling for Wall Street regulation in 2007, beginning before the 2008 crash, as true.

Balancing a free and fair economy. During her 2008 presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton said “fairness doesn’t just happen. It requires the right government policies.” It was during that campaign that one New York Times columnist estimated that Hillary “might bring the toughest regulatory scrutiny of any president in a generation.” Reflecting on America’s 20th century economic history, Hillary said “we were most successful when we had that balance between an effective, vigorous government and a dynamic, appropriately regulated market… And we have systematically diminished the role and the responsibility of our government, and we have watched our market become imbalanced.”

Protecting the financial health of the American people. Hillary Clinton put Elizabeth Warren’s idea of a Financial Product Safety Commission “at the heart” of her financial reform agenda, calling for its creation so it could “crack down on abusive and predatory lenders and to protect consumers.” This idea – now known as the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau – was implemented two years later in the Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform law of 2010. And in 2006, Hillary introduced legislation to require financial companies give consumers a copy of all company records related to a given consumer every year free of charge.

Fighting for accountability and independent oversight. In 2008, Hillary Clinton ... http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-a-fair-and-free-economy/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/15/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-she-called-wall-street-regula/

[Bobbie Jo]

58. !!!

[RandySF]

2. Well, the lack of capitalization does not help your cause.

[restorefreedom]

3. nice to see the high level of discourse.

i do not have a "caps friendly" keyboard so i usually don't bother.

not that you bothered to ask.

and you make my point perfectly. you have nothing to say on the substance but go after something inane like upper vs lower case?

anything that i actually said you wish to refute?

[sabrina 1]

12. It's insulting, and not working. People would prefer someone who stand by what we KNOW they believe.

We know where she was yesterday. This isn't going to help her at all. WHO is advising her? This has been a huge issue and her position is well known.

Does she think we are stupid? I can't say, but she sure has terrible advisers.

Thankfully we have Bernie who rarely has to evolve on any important issue.

[2pooped2pop]

19. lol. The grammar police always crack me up

It's as if they can't figure out the message if there are errors or shortcuts. I wonder if they struggle with texting since it has it's own style.

[slipslidingaway]

7. Seriously, is that what you noticed in the OP ...

I've chastised my 20 something year old for lack of capitalization when addressing a thank you note to his 80 year old aunt, but this is 2015 and an anonymous message board so that is not of utmost importance.

[Jim Lane]

11. NanceGreggs in #5 misused "less" when it should have been "fewer" (gasp!).

You'd better get right on that one, too.

See "'Less' or 'fewer'?" if you need help.

[merrily]

18. I thought I was the only one who knew about less and fewer. My sister was graduated summa from

Barnard and writes for a living and she always chooses the wrong one.

Knowing correct grammar, usage and spelling is one thing, Shaming anyone* publicly about any of that is quite another. And caps? Give me a break.


* Exception: when someone has shamed another, feel free to point out his or her errors.. Especially if he or she makes an error right in the shaming post, which happens surprisingly often.

[oasis]

25. The use of the word "stupid" came back to bite the OP.

I believe that was the point of post #2. Just saying.

[merrily]

26. I very much doubt it.

However, even if that were so, posting that a political campaign must think people are stupid is very different from attempting to shame a fellow poster on a board. And over lower case, no less.

[restorefreedom]

52. thx merrily. as mentioned, it is a keyboard issue

not that the poster cares. clearly that was the only thing "wrong" with the post, since he/she had nothing of substance to criticize.

which, as we have seen, happens often when people try and criticize bernie on policy.

but lets keep that "between you and i," 'kay?

[merrily]

54. Taking a personal pot shot in an attempt to discredit your OP--over upper case! Comedy gold.

You're very welcome.

[Hortensis]

59. Here's what financial transparency.org had to say about Hillary:

"My 2012 Financial Transparency Person of the Year Picks

This week TIME Magazine opened polling to their readers to weigh in on their nominations for Person of the Year. Generally, I think their picks are pretty good, although sometimes their nominations are a little off the mark (Roger Goodell, really?). Anyway, the nominations got me to thinking what a Transparency Person of the Year would look like. Keeping with TIME’s definition, this would be someone who influenced the news, for better or worse, on issues related to financial transparency. Here are my picks.

...

HILLARY CLINTON. The outgoing Secretary of State is the only person who will show up on both TIME’s list and my own, but for good reason. This year, Secretary Clinton brought attention to the issue when urged the SEC to go “as far as possible” in issuing rules under Section 1504 of the Dodd-Frank financial reform law, which requires petroleum and mining companies to disclose payments to foreign governments. She’s also expressed strong condemnation against efforts to weaken the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and brought attention to the massive development challenges associated with the resource curse."

[link:https://financialtransparency.org/my-2012-financial-transparency-person-of-the-year-picks/|

[merrily]

63. And that is supposed to be a response to my post about nitpicking upper case being funny how?

[Hortensis]

64. Sorry, forgot to mention my own hair about "few" versus "less."

As in, less bickering about which of our candidates endorsed what first will result in fewer GOP wins.

[restorefreedom]

50. another fave of mine

between you and i...

i hear it all the time and i want to shout meeeeee!!!

[merrily]

55. Even worse: Mixing it up, as in "She and him" went to rally. Or, "They did that for him and I."

But, those things bother me mostly when I hear it as part of a film or a scripted TV show, when I know that someone who is considered a professional writer is responsible. (Assuming the error is not part of telling us something about the character who is speaking.)

I thought it was my job to correct my son's grammar and usage, until, at a very young age, he asked me to stop unless I really could not understand his meaning. Damn! That kid was born wiser than I will ever be.

[restorefreedom]

57. yes the professional writers and their screw ups

annoy me too. sometimes there is a technical or scientific term in a program, and the actor pronounces it...well, they botch it. It's hard to believe that someone doesn't catch that during rehearsal. It just makes whatever professional credibility, for me anyway, go out the window.

[merrily]

61. A relative of mine is a camera operator and he tries to get corrections, but usually no one listens

to him.

[Fawke Em]

67. Or when people use "myself" in place of "me" because they think

it makes them sound more professional.

As in: "If you want to know more about this conference, please contact Jim or myself."

Nooooo!!! It's "me."

EEEEKKKK!

It makes them sound DUMB.

[azmom]

66. Barnard? My daughter applied but was not accepted. Wonderful

School. She had a choice between Wellsley and Mount Hokyoke and chose Mount Holyoke. She's really happy there.

[merrily]

68. Glad to hear she made the right choice for her. She must be very smart.

[merrily]

20. Doesn't hurt it, either. Caps? Exactly how desperate were you to post something negative?

[sibelian]

44. Well YOU have enormous sticky-out ears.

So there, Ner.

[99Forever]

51. Always nice to know the Proper Grammar Police are on the job.

[restorefreedom]

56. when that is all they have to complain about,

it tells us something.

[NanceGreggs]

5. Well, yes, of course.

The front-runner is in "free fall", and it's "unlikely" she'll get the nomination. Who is she going to lose the nomination to? The guy who's getting less votes in most polls than the guy who isn't even running?

"the voters can see through this pathetic and embarrassing display of political shapeshifting"

Maybe the voters are seeing through your candidate, and that's why he isn't going anywhere.

[Godhumor]

6. The frontrunner who can lose enough support to an undeclared candidate to put him in 2nd

And she is still winning by 17 points. Obviously that is a ridiculously weak candidate who is clearly days from quitting politics altogether.

On edit: brainstorm gone, but I do find the meme that Clinton is done in the campaign laughable.

[NanceGreggs]

13. I find it downright bizarre.

You'll see several OPs posted about HRC up in this poll, HRC up in that poll - and then you'll see posts like "now that Hillary's numbers are plummeting" ...

I wonder if some people actually know what's going on in the real world. I suspect that some of them don't.

[slipslidingaway]

8. I think the younger generation is excited about Sanders ...

Clinton is an old establishment candidate which does not enthuse their interests and they could just as easily stay home on election night.

They are looking at his long record of supporting the minority class and are excited about what they see.

[babylonsister]

9. Go away. nt

[Live and Learn]

10. Bernie is causing others to reevaluate their positions.

As such, he has already done a heck of a lot for America.

[sabrina 1]

14. Yes but do they mean it? She IS following Bernie on several issues now. That makes HIM a Leader and

and her, a FOLLOWER.

I want a leader for this country. Who will Hillary follow if she gets to the WH?

We can't risk that.

[merrily]

21. The weathervane candidate.

[Live and Learn]

24. Completely agree but it shows she has acknowledged that the people want what Bernie does.

i would never trust her after her Iraq vote but Bernie would be happy that he has gotten the word out and possibly changed some minds. Just wanted to acknowledge the good he has already done.

[merrily]

31. Exactly. People who are either clueless or pretending to be say Occupy accomplished nothing.

People with that mentality similarly disparage Bernie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12778005 (Sanders has already won.)

[Live and Learn]

35. Yep!!! nt

[Beartracks]

15. As long as they are "real" positions, and not just...

... "campaign" positions.

======================

[Live and Learn]

27. I call them 'weasel words'. But she has two choices to attempt to get her numbers up:

1. Attack Bernie positions
2. Alter her positions to be close to his

She has very little to attack him on personally (and those have already failed), so those are the 2 choices she has left. The fact that she has chosen choice number 2 is an acknowledgement that she knows the people are behind Bernie on the issues.

[merrily]

33. That they are campaign positions could dnot possibly be more obvious.

[stillwaiting]

48. Don't mistake political candidates (and what they say) with elected politicians(and what they'll do)

The system counts on us not getting that very important distinction.

We have a shot at sending a huge message here, and at waking up many Americans to the reality of our system. What candidates say MUST be weighed against what they have done throughout their career, who they surround (and have surrounded in the past) themselves with, and from that we have to make an assessment as to whether they are believable and trustworthy in what they say as candidates.

[C Moon]

16. I imagine it will work, too. :(

[Eric J in MN]

17. I'm waiting for Hillary Clinton to give specifics of why

...she's against the TPP.

If she doesn't give specifics now, she can say in six months that the TPP has improved (though it's practically the same) and she's for it.

[merrily]

22. If nominated, she'll probably "clarify" starting with the general and evolve totally if elected.

[Live and Learn]

28. I hope that is a debate question. nt

[Jim Lane]

40. TPP can't improve once the countries involved agree on a text.

The passage of fast track means that Congress must approve or reject this specific proposal, with no amendments permitted.

What's more likely to happen IMO:
* Clinton maintains a public posture of opposition to TPP.
* Nevertheless, she doesn't go on the warpath against it, i.e., doesn't lobby members of Congress to vote No. She may even privately send the signal that she's perfectly OK with its approval. (She might say, "Well, I've taken the position against it, but if you feel you should go along with the President, I certainly understand.&quot
* TPP is approved or rejected before January 20, 2017 so it won't be up to the next President anyway.
* What might be up to the next President is TTIP (the TPP equivalent for the Atlantic). If TTIP hasn't been finalized by January 20, 2017, then Clinton, if President, would go along with a deal that's just as bad or worse than the TPP, because she'll be freed of the political necessity of appearing to be progressive.

[Eric J in MN]

65. Yes, I'd like for Hillary Clinton to go beyond the TPP

...and say, "I will never support a comprehensive trade deal unless it _____."

[Bernblu]

23. She must think the Democratic voters are really stupid!

And they might be if they believe she's a progressive.

[Live and Learn]

29. Pretty sure she does. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

30. She's depending on the media's refusal to air Bernie's actual speeches.....

They only talk about the mystery of his popularity,....and that he's a socialist.

[merrily]

34. And old (6 years older than she, which they rarely mention) and his hair.

Anything to avoid talking about issues. That is the level of political discourse in America now.

What do we expect from media that worked hand in hand with Bushco to try to sell America on invading Iraq/

[Live and Learn]

36. Oh hell no, that would be sexist. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. They have also taken it as FACT that a successful president makes Wall Street happy.

[noiretextatique]

38. turd way triangulation

and yes...they think we are stupid.

[SoapBox]

39. Don't forget about her college plan!

She had to shove her hand in the air on that point as well...although her big solution is that you'll have to work your way through...gee, like that's a plan!

[djean111]

45. Meme of the day. Or week. Or however many days until the next meme -

"Why, Hillary is soooooo much like Bernie that, even though we have spent a LOT of time condescendingly (and scornfully) telling you Bernie supporters that Bernie's positions on issues are pie-in-the-sky at best - OMG!!!!! turns out Hillary's positions are pretty much identical!!!!! Okay, maybe fracking and cluster bombs and H-1B visa increases and warwarwar might be teensy tiny differences, but hey! Just wait! ANYTHING can change! Lemme check what the polls and focus groups say about those things!!!!"

I sincerely doubt whether any-damn-body expected Hillary to announce anything but that she is sorta against the TPP. At this time. Wait and see. Let's pick one or two little issues with it, knowing not a word can be changed. Oh dear.

oh, and i consider lack of capitalization a ringing tribute to archy and mehitabel. if that's all ya got for a rebuttal or a put-down, then ya got nothing.

Speaking of Don Marquis, his "The Big Bad Wolf" (1935, from "archy does his part&quot nails inequality. Nails it to the wall, Nails it perfectly. And that is what Hillary and her donors represent, to me. Try reading it. It is very dark, and as true today as it was in 1935.

http://donmarquis.com/reading-room/big-bad-wolf/

[leftofcool]

46. Uh, no, she isn't a bernie clone and thank gawd!

[Scuba]

47. ...

[Freddie Stubbs]

49. Probably as stupid as people who thought that Obama would renegotiate NAFTA

[HooptieWagon]

53. I'm voting for Bernie, just to be sure of the real deal.

No telling when Camp Weathervane is going to spin back to the right. Bernie has been consistant his entire career....it's the Real Deal.

[Adrahil]

60. You can't write comedy like this.

You can't attack her positions..... so you attack the fact that you can't attack her positions! Priceless!

[Vinca]

62. You wonder what will happen if she's the nominee.

Will she'll track right again and do a reverse Mitt Romney?