2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIs it fair to call Bernie Sanders a Socialist?
He says he's a Democratic Socialist.
Is there a difference?
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)It owns the roads, the parks and peace and safety departments from sea-to-shining-sea. Socialism is what makes America so great.
Therefore what we need as our top manager - POTUS - is someone who believes in socialism and will manage the government to be its best. Having capatilists as managers is a proven failure.
Bernie is the real deal and will make government work for everyone.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)But the average voter won't understand the difference, and the Republicans would bash him over the head with the "socialist" label if he were the nominee. The WaPo basically said he is unelectable after his statement that he isn't a capitalist but a democratic socialist.
Just because he added Democratic to the title doesn't change the fact that the only word people hear is Socialist.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... which is what we could in FACT say happened with the Koch family when they built their family fortune on working with communist dictator Joseph Stalin to build up the Soviet Union's energy infrastructure.
Whether or not the Kochs themselves believe in communism, libertarianism, or what other authoritarian belief system they favor won't matter if they push that game to the hilt, and discover that truth.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Conservatives who don't want him will just grab onto "socialist," no doubt (and do lots of bashing with it for sure!), but Bernie is the most interesting candidate and that may cause others to pay sufficient attention.
I personally doubt the common wisdom that we wouldn't elect someone calling himself a democratic socialist. If you ask anyone if they'd want something different from their usual without showing it to them, they overwhelmingly say no. If they've seen it and like it, though, the answer's completely different.
Also, capitalism is rather tarnished these days by tremendous abuse. I suspect all Bernie would need to do is reassure that he wants to reform not replace.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... or leaving that aspect defined by calling someone a "capitalist". The former is more what Mussolini wanted and went towards fascism.
Regulated capitalism in our system, which also has regulated socialism that is controlled by democratic rule is what most people in this country want. By trying to simplify it with a label of "socialist" makes for more of a name calling contest rather than one of substantive discussion which our country needs.
trumad
(41,692 posts)I'd love a more Socialist society. I think most Progressive Liberals do.
But that's me...our friends on the right obviously think different.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... whether it is with Bernie as a candidate, or many others that are also feeling that our addiction to unregulated capitalism is dooming our country. I think that what is real important is how Bernie comes off tomorrow night in the debate. I think if people can hear him talk about what he wants, and not just Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck labeling him as a "socialist" that is their full understanding of him to this point, that this might make a difference with more people soon.
There will always be some at the bottom of the heap, that will never like a "socialist". But I think they are becoming a shrinking minority of voters now. Most millennials and others are not going to accept that as a critique. Our key is getting more of them to come out to vote this time around. It is their future that is being screwed with with climate change, the economy, etc. that I think will have them vote more this next election.
artislife
(9,497 posts)You mean like we have never read one of your OPs.
Very hillarian of you.
BernieFan57
(80 posts)That's what I'm going to do with this kind of thread right off the top.
It's a legitimate question.
50 percent of the country right now thinks he's a Socialist.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)That 50% is called "Republicans."
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Yes, we're going to have a lot of those extremists that will play with these epithets to try and draw in more of their group that doesn't have much capacity to do any rational thinking beyond name calling. It is more those that think more that we need to work on and make sure that they don't get taken in on name calling.
Ron Green
(9,821 posts)until it loses its meaning for some, causes others to start thinking more than they're accustomed to, maybe prompts still others to say, "Isn't that what Obama is?"
"Liberal." "Conservative." "Socialist." This is the language of fools, and the quicker we lose these dumbass labels in our search for better politics and policy, the better off we are.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)it's a game that isn't very fun or imaginative
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Unfortunately, not many can successfully distinguish between democratic socialists who work to win at the ballot box and Marxist-Leninists who advocate for revolution.
It's also worth noting there's quite a difference between social democracy and democratic socialism, and it's pretty important to make that distinction.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)that some will consider provocative? And get RECS!
stone space
(6,498 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)The reason people saying democratic socialist was to avoid association with the USSR and other systems like that that were also called socialist.
FSogol
(45,360 posts)He calls himself a socialist 4-5 times without ever using the "Democratic Socialist" modifier.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)fuck-it, I guess I'm a Socialist now.
We Want Bernie
(45 posts)Democratic socialism (Norway,Sweden,Denmark) is markedly different from regular socialism (such as Venezuela)
Please study the marked difference. Thank you.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Please study the marked difference. Thank you.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)So what is your intent?
artislife
(9,497 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Is that fair?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Pigeon holes are for pigeons.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Millions of Jews die at the hands of Facists and you ask that question?
...
onehandle
(51,122 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)... with use of an unsecured private server.
Ahead of the next email dump: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/hillary-clinton-emails-cia-214654
Clinton's email woes won't go away: An imminent release includes sensitive information on a CIA source.
So, there's that.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Socialists want government takeover of the means of production of most or all major industries.
Democratic socialists work within the system, and with like-minded democrats, toward a more just and fair system.
In Sanders' case, he's advocating breaking up the big banks and a free or single-payer health care system.
angrychair
(8,594 posts)More importantly, what is very clear, is that Capitalism is as much a failed political philosophy and economic philosophy as Marxism or Communism. We have reached a level of unsustainable economic inequality. The rights of a few now matter more than the many. In this brave new world, corporations are people too (my friend).
The first step is admitting there is a problem.
Hey, it worked on Star Trek.