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Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:02 PM

A not-that-political friend's take on Bernie Sanders

Got this email from a friend the other day. He's not politically ignorant, but he's nowhere near as engrossed in politics as most of us here are, and though he generally leans left on issues, he's nowhere near the liberal that I am. Posting this here for your consideration and/or enjoyment; the only other bit of "context" I'll provide is to mention that he lives in the city of San Francisco.

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I watched the debate twice last night; kinda weird picking winners with this stuff, but the first run through I thought Bernie was the solid winner; second time through I have to say Hillary did well-enough (if you are a Hillary supporter), probably an even score between those two. Bernie earned bonus points, of course, in that he got exposure to people who may not know him so much. I can't say I heard anything from him that was new to me, however I did have a realization last night; and remember this is coming from an outsider of sorts in that I have some conservative-ness in me, not a diehard Dem I guess I'm saying. Anyway, my new view regarding Bernie is, and I put this in caps purposefully:

ANY DEMOCRAT WHO DOES NOT SUPPORT BERNIE SANDERS IS A COWARD.

Throughout the years, in the many, many cocktail, dinner, work-lunch, barbeque coffeehouse conversations I've had with people who consider themselves democrats/progressives/liberals/whatever - all I've heard to the point of exhaustion is EXACTLY what Bernie presents. On every point his view is exactly what progressive, democratic people-for-change claim they want in a politician. There are zero holes; he not only hits all the "we want!" points, he also dismisses and doesn't really care about the stuff that is not truly important. As an example, I'd put the legalization of marijuana in that category. Realistically "liberal" people like to talk about legalization, but to most, even democrats, I think it's a "nice to have". His response (with pause) of "I'd probably vote for that" really shows how that doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things. His focus and core perspectives, the changes he suggests are right on point with what the modern democrat proudly postures as what is objectively and obviously correct. Bernie’s plan of action is clear, concrete and unwavering - "Let's fix the economy, break up the big banks and balance out tax distribution; stay out of wars until we really have to get involved; build back the middle-class; treat all people with respect and dignity; pull tax money away from the top to make education and healthcare available to all and stop wasting time, money and energy on political silliness like someone’s damn emails!"

These points are precisely the promises initiated and strongly upheld, at least in voice, for the last 40-plus years by the boomer generation, the originators of the modern Democratic party. Aging boomers and the modern progressives who have carried their baton forward have repeated this bundle of values over and over and over with loud, insistent, sometimes obnoxious voices and yet very little has been actualized or even felt close in reach. Every four years again there is the opportunity to make your vote count, power to the people. But the people continue to support, by passive allowance, the political machine to move forward manufacturing and outputting a long string of safe, digestible Democrats who are “For Change!, sorta” and we vote accordingly because we, the People, are perhaps “For Change! sorta” as well? We will find out in 2016.

It would be an egotistical slogan and probably not good campaign advice, but really here's the poster:

Bernie with arms spread wide, smiling. Caption reads: "Hey democrats, progressives, liberals, people-for-change - Here I AM!"

Just like any horrible, sinful person will be granted their place in heaven with a simple acceptance of Jesus as their savior on their deathbed, an action that clears all the sins of their past. The entire boomer generation can be forgiven of all their sins if each, on their now deathbeds, open their by-mail voter ballot at the hospital, take out a pen and with shaky hand mark a vote for Bernie Sanders. It would be the final political action to clear all the mistakes and broken promises they’ve made in the past. Fifty years ago they started the exact call for change expressed by Bernie Sanders, point-by-point, and yet that call is still required. For those younger, this is their chance to not repeat the mistakes of their liberal predecessors and choose a candidate for true change, change that will require effort and work, change that will require compromises, but change that will be lasting and in the end be the correct and right thing to do!

To me, this is a defining moment for our generation’s modern Democratic party. Moving forward in any political conversation, if someone starts giving me the whinny liberal rant, I will ask - did you support Bernie Sanders in 2016? If "no", then I say - "Well, you are living the consequences of your own mistake.” I hate to be boomer-righteous, but really - anyone who considers themselves liberal/progressive/whatever and does not support Bernie Sanders in 2016 is a coward! This is a once in a generation opportunity for people to shut-up and put-up. There is no third party splitting here, no interests forcing Bernie's hand, he is not running because of any social or demographic look-and-feel; he is not even a value-based politician like so many Democrats are. His is a call to action. Simply and sincerely, Bernie Sanders is "FOR CHANGE", for actual, concrete, and game-changing change at a time when change is not just a "nice to have", but necessary. Bernie Sanders’ message, echoing Kennedy era progressiveness, begins with "Here's what WE need to do". His language of inclusion was so natural and inviting. And his insistence that it all begins with "You guys out there need to do some of the work and rise up" is key. So - let's do this! And insist with our actions and our voices and our votes that Bernie Sanders be the 2016 Democratic Candidate and next President so that we can finally get this country moving forward!

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Arrow 92 replies Author Time Post
Reply A not-that-political friend's take on Bernie Sanders (Original post)
beerandjesus Oct 2015 OP
Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #1
cprise Oct 2015 #2
busterbrown Oct 2015 #75
leftupnorth Oct 2015 #87
cprise Oct 2015 #88
Prism Oct 2015 #3
daleanime Oct 2015 #8
Android3.14 Oct 2015 #12
daleanime Oct 2015 #15
Maedhros Oct 2015 #27
daleanime Oct 2015 #34
2banon Oct 2015 #73
upaloopa Oct 2015 #4
99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #6
erronis Oct 2015 #20
Rilgin Oct 2015 #7
bumprstickr Oct 2015 #29
hifiguy Oct 2015 #54
cannabis_flower Oct 2015 #68
daleanime Oct 2015 #9
marym625 Oct 2015 #16
BeanMusical Oct 2015 #53
Plucketeer Oct 2015 #17
ms liberty Oct 2015 #36
artislife Oct 2015 #43
Divernan Oct 2015 #46
cosmicone Oct 2015 #5
daleanime Oct 2015 #10
beerandjesus Oct 2015 #11
aidbo Oct 2015 #13
erronis Oct 2015 #22
LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #23
erronis Oct 2015 #33
aidbo Oct 2015 #28
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #31
marym625 Oct 2015 #14
Plucketeer Oct 2015 #18
Dem2 Oct 2015 #19
olddots Oct 2015 #21
LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #24
LongTomH Oct 2015 #25
jwirr Oct 2015 #26
Locrian Oct 2015 #45
jeff47 Oct 2015 #62
LibDemAlways Oct 2015 #65
Maedhros Oct 2015 #30
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #32
rhett o rick Oct 2015 #38
beerandjesus Oct 2015 #40
rhett o rick Oct 2015 #41
Maedhros Oct 2015 #44
dreamnightwind Oct 2015 #39
Locrian Oct 2015 #47
DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #70
antigop Oct 2015 #48
cpompilo Oct 2015 #35
Bread and Circus Oct 2015 #37
zentrum Oct 2015 #42
in_cog_ni_to Oct 2015 #49
waldo.c Oct 2015 #50
CharlotteVale Oct 2015 #51
orpupilofnature57 Oct 2015 #52
Armstead Oct 2015 #55
NonMetro Oct 2015 #58
beerandjesus Oct 2015 #59
2banon Oct 2015 #74
bench scientist Oct 2015 #56
NonMetro Oct 2015 #57
beerandjesus Oct 2015 #60
NonMetro Oct 2015 #89
beerandjesus Oct 2015 #90
NonMetro Oct 2015 #91
AzDar Oct 2015 #61
Paka Oct 2015 #63
wilsonbooks Oct 2015 #64
mhatrw Oct 2015 #66
emsimon33 Oct 2015 #67
mnhtnbb Oct 2015 #69
sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #71
Progressive dog Oct 2015 #72
beerandjesus Oct 2015 #78
PatrickforO Oct 2015 #76
beerandjesus Oct 2015 #80
leftupnorth Oct 2015 #77
hrmjustin Oct 2015 #79
beerandjesus Oct 2015 #81
hrmjustin Oct 2015 #82
beerandjesus Oct 2015 #83
hrmjustin Oct 2015 #84
beerandjesus Oct 2015 #85
hrmjustin Oct 2015 #86
cleanhippie Oct 2015 #92

Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:07 PM

1. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, beerandjesus.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:10 PM

2. :)

Excellent assessment!

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Response to cprise (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 10:24 AM

75. I wonder what your dialogue will be

Around here if, ( and theres a good chance) when we wake up Nov 2016, with a Tea Party House, Right Wing Senate and a Mark Rubio/Jeb Bush President.. What will you tell us cowards, especially the ones who served in the military?

As they in a heartbeat, begin to dismantle, S.S., Medicare, Medicaid, Safety Net Programs, EPA Standards, Standard Public Education Policy and on and on? That we fought the good fight? Fuck That!!

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #75)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 12:31 PM

87. Since we are getting into the hypothetical, what would the public's reaction be to such a circumstance?

Do, you think they'll be more or less likely to rise up and take their country back?

I'm saying more.

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #75)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 02:03 PM

88. Better question: Who appeals more to swing/independent voters?

You'd have to believe that most Americans would say No to Sanders because of democratic socialism, on the ridiculous basis that Western Europe = The Soviet Union.

Anyway, those public goods you listed are undermined in various ways by free-trade agreements. That's what they are designed to do: Let politicians hand all of the advantages to big business while appearing to be caring and progressive in the public eye by passing other laws that ultimately have no effect. That's why FTAs are negotiated in secret while other laws are publicly debated. Hillary is a big fan of FTAs and still even defends NAFTA.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:10 PM

3. Parlor advocate liberals

 

They are legion, where the party and political personality is more important that progress.

Oh, those golden days when "I'm all for LGBT rights, but you guys need to pipe down about it!" Thank god Clinton let them off the hook there. I'm not sure any of us would've had the stomach for "Why I'm for gay marriage, but just STFU and never mention it!" 2.0.

The Boomers are older, more comfortable, more economically secure, and given more government assistance than any other generation. They talk a very good game, but they're not going to overturn the apple cart too much. They got theirs.

It's definitely creating friction in the Party, but it's at least entertaining to watch Millennials not having any of it. Good for them.

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Response to Prism (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:50 PM

8. Oh really?

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Response to daleanime (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:31 PM

12. Really.

 

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:50 PM

15. Sorry.....

what were we talking about?

Friday night's fish dinner....


Get off my lawn....


darn kids.....


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Response to daleanime (Reply #15)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:43 PM

27. Are you capable of intelligent discourse, or just snark? [n/t]

 

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #27)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:04 PM

34. Ask me a real question...

if you want to know.

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Response to Prism (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 09:30 AM

73. FYI: I'm a boomer, and my peers.. we aren't comfortable or economically secure..

 

If I had the financial means, I'd wager a hefty bet that MOST boomers do not fit in the category of comfort and economic security. Not saying they don't exist, obviously they do.. but that group of people is no majority.

That's partly why it makes absolutely NO SENSE for boomers to take the cowards position in this election.

I agree with your sentiments on the Millennials, they're not having it!

Good on Them!


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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:12 PM

4. I think I support most of Bernie's issues too

It isn't a matter of what he says or how long he has been saying it.
He is like a pied piper to me. I can envision him on his Inauguration Day calling his new cabinet in to the citation room and saying "ok what do we do now?"

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:22 PM

6. Bernie has changed the entire discussion

 

other candidates would not be now mimicking Bernie's positions -- positions on issues the
public had NOT been hearing about ever since TPTB had their hired goons w/ guns shut down
Occupy Wall St. with para-military force -- if he were some weird 'pied piper' out of step
with 'reality' so-called

Bernie has been in DC for decades, taking names, noticing where the bodies get buried, and
paying close attention to how real change could happen there, finally, change that truly
benefits the 99% and not the Billionaires Class of greed-heads.

When Bernie said, "don't underestimate me." he was not just talking about how wildly
popular his campaign would be, but what he plans to do to implement his policies once
in the WH.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:14 PM

20. +1 - You win! Unfortunately, the Empire may trump. After all, it's THEIR money!

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:50 PM

7. Other side of the Coin

We see this all the time, Hillary supporters saying they support Bernie's issues.

At the same time, many HRC supporters go through substantial internal mental stretches to avoid looking directly at Hillary's past and current positions and what they might mean for the future or the contradictions between her current positions and her past positions. Are such changes evolution, pragmatism, cynicism. It really is impossible to know and this causes cognitive dissonance in anyone who wants to be or is invested in being her supporter. To avoid such dissonance, I think I never see the supporters actually looking directly at Hillary's past or positions. Almost all of such examination, is forgiving, comparing her with Republicans, twisting clear positions to make them ambiguous, or outright ignoring inconvenient problems with her candidacy. Her support is more based on faith and emotion than a direct look at her positions, good and bad.

A good example is the TPP. Her history shows she is a supporter and she previously stated she would not take a position till she saw the final agreement. This was seen correctly as trying to not offend the base and her donors, threading a needle rather than taking a position. Recently, even though she could not have seen the final documents, she made an ambiguous statement that was read to be a position against the TPP although even that seems to have been made more ambiguous by her most recent post debate statement on the TPP. Many Hillary supporters are against the TPP or have some problems with it. To avoid the cognitive dissonance of Hillary's history and ambiguity we see some rather awkward arguments from a great majority of supporters. I will contrast this with more authentic Hillary supporter arguments I have seen although rarely (the rarity is the subject of this post). I have seen posts actually trying to defend the TPP, or stating that it is not a big deal. I have also seen as a rarity, honest posts where people disagree with Hillary on TPP and other corporate issues but put those issue as non fatal for them. However, this honesty is rare because it is not usually seen as a path to a nomination.

She is an attractive, smart, capable woman. She has been a public figure for years and has had good moments in that history. However, she also has a long history of contradictions and wrong political calculations. Some of these are major and would be absolutely fatal in another politician.

This is what I think is incomprehensible. If you took another candidate and gave him Hillary's past and current positions and history, I think most Hillary supporters would be against that candidate.




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Response to Rilgin (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:46 PM

29. when HRC flip flops on an issue, any of the many issues by the way,

 

her supporters explain that as evolving.

Nice post

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:42 PM

54. They tie themselves into knots

 

that would defy a Chinese contortionist in order to justify her record. Which is unjustifiable and awful. Beginning with the act of cowardice or stupidity that was voting to give Little Boots his IWR.

Not to mention describing War Criminal Henry Kissinger as "a defender of human rights." Tell that to the two million dead Cambodians and million-plus dead Vietnamese whose blood is on that butcher's hands, Hillary.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #54)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 08:06 AM

68. Don't forget..

Ol' Henry was instramental in overthrowing Allende in Chile and installing and propping up Pinochet and many people in Chile "disappeared"
.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:54 PM

9. Yes I'm sure that you can imagine it.....

I'm sure you can imagine all sorts of things.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:51 PM

16. I'm so glad

You're envisioning him as President, as he will be January 20, 2017

Also glad you know that any good President will listen to the advisors he surrounds himself with before making a decision that will effect the world

I can't wait for 2024 when we can start calling Elizabeth Warren Madam President Elect, our first female president

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Response to marym625 (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:40 PM

53. +1

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:55 PM

17. "OK, here's what we're gonna do."

 

THAT sounds more plausible to me.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:21 PM

36. With his experience and my observation of him

for many years, I expect his first words will be " Thank you all for being here. We have a lot to do, so let's get started..."

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 06:13 PM

43. I see h telling her cabinet

 

Throw out my campaign posturing, I have back room deals to fulfill.

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Response to artislife (Reply #43)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:07 PM

46. I envision her moving her cabinet meetings to Wall Street.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:18 PM

5. More anecdotal data is coming in

 

I was told by my second cousin's brother-in-law's landlord's dog-walker's boyfriend's mechanic that Bernie is the best candidate ever and 2 of the three people he knows are going to vote for Bernie.

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Response to cosmicone (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 02:58 PM

10. Yes, we know that you don't want to listen to us.....

until you need to blame us for this or that failure. Glade we at least serve some purpose in your world.

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Response to daleanime (Reply #10)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:21 PM

11. That's right! A vote for anyone but the most conservative Democrat is.....

.....wait for it..............



.............






...........a vote for RAND PAUL!!!1!

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:35 PM

13. Does it take an independent to save the Democratic Party from itself?

 

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Response to aidbo (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:21 PM

22. You know, Bernie's run such a good campaign as "Bernie" that maybe

it could be run outside of any party. I'm not sure what he got from being part of the Democrat campaign machinery in this run. Other than headaches from DWS and constantly being snubbed by the military-industrial-political-entertainment complex (MIPEC).

Most of the people I know (I'm 68 and they range from 30+ to 70+) don't use T.V. much anymore. M$M advertising dollars mean nothing to me or them.

If the MIPEC doesn't close down free speech over the inner-tubes, they won't be relevant to these discussions in a few election cycles.

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Response to erronis (Reply #22)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:28 PM

23. Oh, What is it like getting old? I am 67 and feel like I am rooting for RFK.

Do you get the same feeling?

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Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #23)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:04 PM

33. Hey geezer, speak for yourself... I'd love to see some real young people

picking up the RFK mantle. And I think that social-media savvy types can help us get there.

Deep down inside, I'm still that 17yo trying to motivate the body to do the stupid things it used to do.

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Response to erronis (Reply #22)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:44 PM

28. I don't think Bernie will run again if he doesn't make it this time.

 

And I don't think he should go third party.

But whoever wins this election; Bernie Hillary jeb! Trump - I think we may be seeing the beginnings of a fracturing in the 2-party system.

As for TV! Don't even get me started. I like some TV shows, but most are unwatchable. I had a friend tell me I should, "try watching Big Bag Theory, you'll like it 'cuz you're nerdy". I tried it, and felt insulted (by the show not the friend, she meant well).

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Response to erronis (Reply #22)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:50 PM

31. I think if he had run from the outside

he'd have lost a chunk of voters who worry about a split vote on the left handing the election to a Republican. By running inside the Dem primary, he takes away that excuse not to vote for him. Of course some people will continue to find excuses for why they HAVE to vote for Clinton even while proclaiming their own 'liberalness', even as she proudly claims to be a moderate, but it makes it more blatantly obvious that they are just excuses, and they really just want to vote for the status quo.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:43 PM

14. K&R!

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:08 PM

18. I was driving in town yesterday

 

Last edited Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:43 PM - Edit history (1)

just at dusk - with a thunderstorm breaking hard overhead. First rain we've seen here since April - and it was having an effect on the bunch of cars I found myself surrounded by. So at first - while I did hear the anxious horn honking from behind me, I didn't give a thought to the notion it might be aimed at me. I mean - I had my lights on, had my wipers going, couldn't sense a flat tire or the like so I just ignored it as the light went green and traffic started to surge ahead again.
Then I see outta the corner of my right eye - there's a car keeping pace with me and he's honking and hollering at me simultaneously. Maybe my tail lights are out - maybe something's dragging under my car - so I try to listen to him over the hiss of tires on wet pavement...... "GO Bernie! I LOVE your stickers man. Go Bernie Go!" He was getting soaked with his window down and his cupped hand trying to amplify his message. Another 20-something believer in this blood red district of California. Those Bernie 2016 stickers get noticed wherever I go around here.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:10 PM

19. K&R

I couldn't say it any better, so I'm just gonna kick it so others might read it.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:18 PM

21. so true and hard to deal with .

 

This may be our choice and chance of a lifetime .

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:32 PM

24. Thank you, Very good.

Need to post it over at /r/sandersforpresident

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:38 PM

25. +1000 Bernie is bringing people back into the system!

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:41 PM

26. Coward. This is the word that comes to mind every time I

hear someone tell me that they don't think Bernie will win. I don't argue back at this point because he has been doing a good job of showing he can. If they are still saying that when our primary decisions are to be made then I will tell them straight out that if they would vote he could and ask them if they want some of the things she believes in.

One of the people I am hearing this from is a union man and he likes Bernie's ideas. If the union expects us to win the argument over the TPP then they had better step up for Bernie.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #26)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:06 PM

45. absolutely

Bernie can win, especially against any of the Republican candidates. If we select the Democratic candidate that is the anointed "safe" bet we will have squandered a chance to actually make real change actually happen - not just pay lip service to it.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #26)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 10:13 PM

62. In addition to the other responses

some of them are motivated more by fear than by hope.

They are afraid of what may happen to women's rights.
They are afraid of what may happen to LGBT rights.
They are afraid of what may happen to the SCOTUS.

So they back the "safe" candidate. Because they're afraid Sanders would lose.

Problem is, "holding the line" is a strategy doomed to fail. If you are only fighting to maintain the status quo, you will lose ground as compromises inevitably wear away at your position.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 01:36 AM

65. I have a Facebook friend who should be on

Hillary's payroll. Although he agrees with Bernie on just about every issue, his mantra is "Bernie will not win a single primary or caucus." 90% of his posts these days are links to pro-Hillary articles, and he routinely denigrates anyone who expresses support for Bernie.

One of many who apparently lack the courage to vote their convictions.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:48 PM

30. In the context of this OP, I'm perplexed by the energetic support for Hillary on DU.

 

Given the choice between a conservative Wall Street establishment Democrat and an actual liberal progressive one, how can one choose the former?

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #30)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:51 PM

32. Some folks, even on the left, are doing very well under the 'status quo'.

They don't really want 'radical' changes that might actually push the party back to the left.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #30)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:28 PM

38. They live in a denial bubble that ignores the 50 million Americans living in poverty. Goldman-Sachs

 

profits are much more important. They ignore the torture and wars that the Third Way accepts. They want to keep their heads down and maybe no one will notice that they have sold out all their Democratic principles for a promise of security.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #38)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 06:05 PM

40. ...and they have the gall to pretend that those of us supporting BERNIE are the "privileged" ones.

(which is why I don't chime in that often.. I really don't like fighting, hahaha)

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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #40)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 06:06 PM

41. We have to fight. Lives are on the line. It's a moral issue to ignore the millions living in poverty

 

to keep corporate profits up.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #38)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 06:30 PM

44. I ran into a bunch of those kind of people at a Joan Baez concert at Washington Park in Portland OR

 

back in the 90s. I was there because Bruce Cockburn opened, and he did a complete set with just himself and his acoustic guitar. Nice.

The crowd, of course, was your standard array of Portlandian latte liberals (judging from the fleet of Volvos in the parking lot). All dressed in obligatory tie dye, of course. Bruce at the time was very involved in the International Land Mine Ban and had brought along a cadre of activists working tables behind the amphitheater, getting people to sign petitions and volunteer. I was shocked by the number of tie-dye-wearing hippy-posers that were complaining about the activists - "We came here for music, not for politics."

Those people are voting for Hillary.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #30)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:42 PM

39. Sadly, some of DU's owners and leading HRC fans are getting paid

Those $2 billion Hillary will raise buy a lot of friends and support. For some of us this is a past-time, for others it is part or even all of where they get their income.

It's always an uphill struggle for underfunded liberals to defeat monied interests. It's the defining challenge for us to work on. The rot in our own party is directly attributable to where their money comes from.

Time to clean house and be the people's party, then we will own congress like we used to. Republicans are extremely unpopular, it's just that their Democratic opponents have almost all sold out to the same or a slightly different cross-section of big money interests, citizens be damned.

The OP is excellent. Cowards is a harsh word but not entirely the wrong one. I see no legitimate excuse for an educated Dempcratic voter to not support Bernie and the policies he so genuinely will fight for.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #30)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:10 PM

47. I wonder

I wonder if given the choice between Bernie and Hillary - if you could personally decide who was elected - what would Bernie vs Hilliary supporters say were their choice?

In other words - forget about their concerns with "elect-ability" etc. Just answer truthfully: who do you really think would be the best president? If the answer is not your professed candidate - you seriously need to think things over, get off your ass, and work to make it happen.

I think a lot of people just want to be on the "winning side" and are not willing to risk fighting for the real thing.

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Response to Locrian (Reply #47)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 08:52 AM

70. That describes most Clinton support here.

 

People want her to win, and they think she can. Issues and truth (if necessary) take a back seat.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #30)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:12 PM

48. But, but, but...she's a progressive. She said so!

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:15 PM

35. Bernie IS a once in a generation opportunity.

For me, being in my 3rd trimester of life, Bernie is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

WIN, Bernie, WIN!

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:24 PM

37. Exactly and "coward" is an apt term. Great post.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 06:07 PM

42. LOVE that poster idea.

It's so true to him.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:17 PM

49. YES! K&R!

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:25 PM

50. K&R

 


Go Bernie

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:26 PM

51. K&R

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:37 PM

52. + 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

If people would listen to his solutions to the problems and issues he concerns himself with, the chances of him winning are good, even with MSM trying Desperately to dismiss him, which is a clue or more a cue from the 1%, he's a danger to us .

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 07:43 PM

55. Love it....apart from the Boomer Bashing

 

We're not all THAT bad, and some of us are far from our deathbeds.

But otherwise, as we used to say -- Right On.

Totally on point.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #55)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 08:53 PM

58. I Didn't Like It

His mockery of people on their death beds in the hospital with their "shaky hands" totally turned me off. This is a very callous individual, totally unlike most Democrats.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #55)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 09:11 PM

59. In his defense, since he's a very close friend of mine.....

Last edited Sat Oct 17, 2015, 11:34 AM - Edit history (1)

...there's some context around that from previous conversations we've had. I left out as much "context" as I could because I thought the "essay" as it were stood on its own. And this is my record collecting buddy from when I lived out there, so for what it's worth (which is basically nothing), I can attest to the fact that probably 70% of his record collection was cut by Boomers.

That said, I can defend my friend, but I can't (without lying) defend myself. The Boomer snark in that message was written for me, because I have gone on many tirades with him directed at the Boomers, more specifically, the Boomers in the Democratic party who, for my entire adult life, have been telling me and my generation (I was born in 1972) to sit down and shut up, because NOTHING is more important than defending the (admittedly good and important) accomplishments of the Boomers during the 1960s and early 70s. Since I've been old enough to vote, what I've been hearing is, let NAFTA slide, because we need a SCOTUS that will uphold Roe v. Wade. Let telecomm deregulation and Glass-Steagall repeal slide, because we need to make sure soldiers don't get kicked out of the military just for being gay. Your generation took down LBJ, who did far more for America than we could ever dream of Hillary doing, over Vietnam, but my generation is supposed to forget about the vote on the Iraq War--MY generation's Vietnam--because it's now uncomfortable for the Democrats who voted for it (who, in fact, are mostly Boomers who should have known better). The Boomer bashing in the OP--and in any posts of mine you may come across, although I swear I try not to go there--isn't directed at Boomers per se, it's directed at the collective sanctimony of a generation that is once again asking my generation and the Millennials to put our own aspirations aside, because they really want to see a woman president, no matter how lousy a Democrat she may be.

So that's where that bit of the essay comes from; and please believe me when I say that if all Boomers were like you, that bit never would have been in there! I am VERY happy to have you on our side.... and I, for one, still say Right On, haha!

Thanks for taking the time to read all this--and if you resent my stance a bit, I can't say I blame you, but I hope you'll understand. I think if you didn't at least already have an inkling, you wouldn't be supporting Bernie!

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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #59)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 09:47 AM

74. I just turned 65. I totally "got" the OP, and it's sooo SPOT ON.

 

Thank you for posting this. It's a very apt analysis, and needs to be "repeated" and reiterated in rebuttal to the cowardly and feckless rationalization for supporting a Corporate Neo-Liberal, which we simply should not, as a country, endure yet again or any longer.





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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 08:06 PM

56. K & R

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 08:47 PM

57. Your Friend Did Exactly What Other Self Absorbed People Do:

Blamed it all on someone else, those he calls "boomer's". He doesn't know anything about such people, and yet he claims they are the source of all his problems. Oh, and these "boomer's" don't care, either because "they got theirs". Your friend doesn't know anything and has no business calling anyone a "coward", and his message is very divisive, arrogant, and completely unlike the person he claims to admire: Bernie Sanders.

But again, we see an example of derogatory things being said about people who were born in certain years because of the generational label imposed on them by the MSM.

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Response to NonMetro (Reply #57)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 09:15 PM

60. I actually just addressed this in a different post addressed to someone else...

...which you can read if you care to.

I will say for an absolute fact that the friend in question is one of the least self-absorbed people I've ever met in my life.

And I might as well add that I (a) kept his name out of it and (b) asked his permission before posting because I suspected someone would come along with a personal attack like this.

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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #60)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 05:12 PM

89. OK, Let's See If We Understand This Correctly:

You did the "boomer bashing" because some "sanctimonious" people of that generation have told you to "sit down and shut up" and have asked to put your their own aspirations "on hold" because they want to see a woman president. Is that right? First, I am over 50, and I have never asked anyone to either sit down and shut up, nor have I ever asked anyone to put their lives on hold because I want to see a woman president. So, tell me: why do you think it's fair to slam an entire generation for the bad behavior of some?

Now, beyond that, this is the very reason why I dislike these phony names the MSM has created for various generations, such as "Baby Boomer", "Baby Buster", "Millenials" etc.: people form stereotypes around these artificially created labels, and the proceed to attack others. Did anyone ever ask anyone of your generation if they wanted to be called 'Baby Busters"? Well, no, because some sanctimonious people in the news media decided that for you when you were a baby. And the same is true of "baby boomer": Some sanctimonious people in the media in the 1970's decided that's what those born after WWII would be called, and nobody of that generation was ever called that before then, either. It's a label, and like all other artificial labels, it's leading to trouble.

Sorry for the long response, but I wanted you to know where I was coming from.

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Response to NonMetro (Reply #89)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 09:56 PM

90. Actually, yeah, pretty much.

I don't want to fight with you, because we're on the same side. I know you're for Bernie. And frankly, because you're for Bernie, it's probably a pretty safe bet that you're with me on the substance of the issues I would lay out if I were to catalogue the sins of our leaders over the past 20 years, since the Baby Boomers have become the generation most prominently represented in the upper echelons of government and business.

So I'm just going to add three small things, rather than reiterate what I've already said: (1) I am smart enough to be able to separate an individual from a group, and although I admit I am inclined to think things along the lines of "the Boomers sure fucked things up royally for us and the Millennials", I am fully--and gratefully--aware that we're not talking about all, or even most, Boomers. We're talking about the behavior of those Boomers that took power when it was the Boomers' historical turn. This is still significant, but does not automatically make all Boomers assholes. (2) Poke around on DU for a bit and you'll find plenty of examples of precisely what you paraphrase in your first sentence. They're saying EXACTLY what you said, minus the sarcastic quotation marks: We want a woman president, Hillary is running (and is a Democrat), how dare the rest of you be so rude as to actually look at policy. (3) There's nothing inherently insulting about the term "Baby Boomer", any more than there is about the term "Millennial". The former just refers to the historical phenomenon of a spike in births after World War II; the latter refers to the phenomenon of a generation coming of age right around the year 2000. Artificial, perhaps, but I don't think the label is so awful.

Again, I can understand the resentment--except for one thing: If you were born in 1965, you're not even a Boomer! The latest cut-off I've ever seen is 1964, and the cut-off I've seen in the more scholarly things I've read on the subject is more like 1961. Now, that right THERE explains why you've never asked anyone to sit down and shut up, right??

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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #90)

Sun Oct 18, 2015, 09:00 AM

91. Nor do I want to fight with you

Here, if I understand your friend correctly was his point, from the OP:

(Bernie is) "On every point his view is exactly what progressive, democratic people-for-change claim they want in a politician"
(And "Boomer's" who claim to want the same won't vote for him.)

Fine. Some people are hypocrites, we get it. And don't try to tell me (I'm sure you won't fellow Sanders supporter), that those born after 1961 do get it, but those born before don't.

Anyway, I do get where your resentment is coming from, too. It's because of the predominantly "boomer" support for HRC, and the "we" want a woman president, and anyone who doesn't like that can "sit down and shut up!" Right? On that point, we're on the same page. I resent that as much as you do, and other "boomer's" have been told the same thing. There is a certain arrogance among her supporters,a kind of disdain for those who don't immediately jump on the Hillary band wagon, like "Oh! So you claim to be a liberal" but you won't vote for a woman - harrumph!

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 09:53 PM

61. Bernie!!

 

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 10:24 PM

63. K&R

Amen, brother!

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 12:56 AM

64. If not now, when? If not Bernie, who?

Bernie is the leader I have been waiting for, for almost 50 years. Not since Martin Luther King and Bobbie Kennedy have we had a leader who could lead revolutionary change. I am all in for Bernie.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 01:49 AM

66. Awesome post. Thanks! nt

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 03:36 AM

67. K&R

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 08:29 AM

69. Happy to be the 200th rec.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 08:57 AM

71. Sounds like what most people say after they get to know Bernie.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 09:19 AM

72. I'm sure glad that most Democrats

don't mix up politics and religion.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #72)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 11:36 AM

78. C'mon, I thought that analogy about accepting Jesus on your death bed was hilarious!

...assuming that's what you were referring to.

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 10:37 AM

76. This guy is pretty astute.

And he's hit the nail right on the head for why I'm supporting Bernie.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #76)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 11:42 AM

80. He's a sharp guy, and we've been close friends for the better part of 20 years.

And he has a really open mind; he's been living in San Francisco since long before I met him, but he came out here a few months ago and we spent a week driving around South Carolina... and he absolutely loved it. (Admittedly, there was a lot of record shopping involved, a vice we share).

But although he's not politically stupid, he's nowhere near the wonk I am--or most of the people on this forum are. He pays some attention--not a ton, but some--and he's the sort of person who will really think about what he hears. But even though it may sound like it from this post, he most decidedly did NOT come out of the gate swinging for Bernie, as people like me did. (I've been a fan of Bernie's since the 90s--again, the wonk thing, which my friend and I do NOT have in common, hahaha.) Admittedly, because he's smart, he recognizes that the Republicans have wandered so far off the reservation that they're out somewhere in the Pacific, but he might well have gone for Hillary over Bernie, if not for what he outlines in the message.

Thanks for reading it, and thanks for the friendly comment!

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 11:23 AM

77. You buried the lede: "ANY DEMOCRAT WHO DOES NOT SUPPORT BERNIE SANDERS IS A COWARD"

Otherwise, excellent post!

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Response to beerandjesus (Original post)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 11:41 AM

79. Wow look at all of you who recced this post calling all of us who don't support

 

Sanders cowards!

Screw all of you.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #79)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 11:55 AM

81. I think you may have missed the point.

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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #81)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 11:56 AM

82. No i can see right through this.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #82)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 12:02 PM

83. Then you probably didn't read the OP.

Because this is about a friend thinking through something for himself, and coming to a conclusion which, admittedly, I like. I've known this guy for close to 20 years, and if you had asked me 6 months ago, I would have said it's 50-50 Hillary or Bernie for him, maybe even 60-40 in favor of Hillary. He's not the most liberal guy on the planet--nowhere near as liberal as I am. So if you "saw right through it" by just reading the part in all caps, well, let's just say I'm not buying it. But that's ok--I don't read all the fawning Hillary posts, either (although I usually don't chime in to tout my superior intelligence, either).

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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #83)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 12:05 PM

84. Why did you capitalize the coward remark?

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #84)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 12:06 PM

85. I didn't. I copied and pasted it as I received it.

I wouldn't have bothered to post this if it were mine--there are enough Bernie partisans on DU. I thought it was interesting because a friend of mine who's not all that interested in politics wrote this thing to me a few days ago.

It was not intended for DU. I asked his permission to post it. He's not even a member here, and frankly wouldn't be--because again, a wonky site like this wouldn't be likely to appeal to him.

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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #85)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 12:10 PM

86. Whatever. I am sick of seeing crap like this.

 

I AM NO COWARD AND TELL YOUR FRIEND I AM NOT!

GOOD BYE!

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #79)

Sun Oct 18, 2015, 09:19 AM

92. Wow, justin, just wow.

Enjoy your vacation. See you when you get back.

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