Forget trying to use Elizabeth Warren to influence my opinion of Hillary Clinton

[whatchamacallit]

It won't work. I like and respect Elizabeth Warren a lot, but her opinion of Hillary has no direct bearing on mine. Maybe Hillary supporters are susceptible to VIP persuasion, and therefore figure everyone else is too. It's nice to have influential people validate your opinions, not create them. Add to that the fact that EW has been alternately supportive and critical of Clinton, and this approach strikes me as a lame waste of time.

[Bonobo]

1. That video from 2004 wasn't an opinion. It was a recount of facts.

If you cannot honestly deal with what her account reveals about Hillary, I think you are in denial.

[whatchamacallit]

7. Um... I'm referring to recent reposts of old stories aiming to show EW's support for Hillary

If that helps.

[Bonobo]

10. Gotcha. It wasn't very clear from the OP. nt

[Agschmid]

2. That wasn't my goal.

[JaneyVee]

4. What did I miss?

[Agschmid]

5. Someone posted a video of Warren talking about Clinton.

It reflected both positive and negative aspects of Clinton, then I posted the letter that Warren signed saying she encouraged Clinton to run. I got annoyed people want to consistently have it both ways... You can't.

It's clear Warren has/had some level of support for Clinton, she wouldn't sign that letter if she didn't mean it.

[brooklynite]

9. followed by a slightly more recent comment...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251698631

[Bonobo]

11. One really does not invalidate the importance of the other.

I think your logic is a bit flawed on this.

[Agschmid]

12. In not saying that either invalidated the other.

I'm saying that someone who was anti Clinton would NOT have signed the letter.

[Bonobo]

17. Yes, but it is not necessary to say that Warren is "Anti-Clinton" in order to learn something

about Hillary -something that should NOT be ignored- from the video I am speaking of. Namely, Hillary's tendency to place political expediency over principles.

[winter is coming]

19. Have you ever lived in DC? n/t

[Agschmid]

21. Nope.

I know I'm lucky

[merrily]

29. Not necessarily true. Many DUers who were Hillary supporters posted things like

the more the merrier about Sanders--meaning the more who ran in the Democratic primary, the better. Of course, after he announced, they seemed much less merry about his challenge, but they did say it originally.

[Agschmid]

31. You mean it became a competitive election?

This Hillary supporter says there is nothing wrong with that, and if anything it just makes our nominee stronger... Whoever that ends up being.

[merrily]

36. Not quite. I mean that welcoming people into a race and supporting them are not the same.

Especially when you are under pressure to "urge" someone to run and you have not been a Senator very long.

[Agschmid]

41. So now she is Chaffee it was her first day and she get pressure?

No, that's not how my senator acts, every word, and action is something she means.

The "she succumbed to peer pressure" theory is moot.

[merrily]

42. Not what I said.

I don't think you're using "moot" correctly

[Agschmid]

43. It's exactly what you said.

[thesquanderer]

51. Did someone say Warren was anti-Clinton? (n/t)

[JaneyVee]

20. Wasn't it Liz Warren who urged Hillary to run?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/04/27/elizabeth-warren-i-hope-hillary-clinton-runs-for-president/

[Agschmid]

22. She certainly was one of the co-signatories.

[merrily]

30. Please see Reply 29.

[marym625]

24. correction

You posted an article about a letter.

[Agschmid]

25. Yes... I did.

It was in response to a video, this is a discussion board. We discuss stuff.

[beam me up scottie]

3. They think we're going to throw her under the bus.

Sorry to disappoint but oh well, they'll have to find something else to throw at Bernie's supporters.

[Agschmid]

6. No I don't think you are going to throw her under the bus...

But that letter shows some level of support, so IMO it's not fair to say or represent that Warren is anti Clinton.

[beam me up scottie]

15. I wasn't referring to you.

HC supporters have been gleefully predicting that we'll throw Warren under the bus for days.

And I never claimed she was anti-Clinton.

[Agschmid]

18. Okay thanks.

[djean111]

14. Violent little group - throwing under the bus, hair on fire, exploding heads -

wishful thinking? projecting? watching too many violent movies or video games?

There is literally NO endorsement that could get me to support someone i do not want to support because of issues. I understand that Congress answers to its donors and the DNC and RNC. And someone - Price? said there was lots of arm-twisting or something. So whatever. Still think it bizarre that we are even talking about this stuff. And the talk started early this year; I did a search on Pledge-y Thing.

[Agschmid]

16. It's DU we talk about stuff.

I'm sure your searchy thing turned up a few posts.

[beam me up scottie]

23. Endorsements don't mean squat to me either.

It's great if someone I like and respect endorses Bernie but it doesn't influence me one way or the other.

And I already declared my intentions if Bernie doesn't win the nomination so if anyone wants to find out if I took "the pledge" they can search my posts.

[marym625]

28. I like when someone I respect endorses someone else I respect

And support. But, if not, that's fine. Won't change my mind. Especially endorsements that happen long, long before everyone is in the race.

This wasn't an endorsement anyway. It was an almost 3 year old undisclosed letter saying something to Hillary Clinton about her running for President. Obviously, saying something good about it. But not an endorsement

[beam me up scottie]

33. If Warren did endorse Hillary at this point I would lose a lot of respect for her.

She may have to eventually but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

The people who are implying she's a HC supporter are being disingenuous at best.

[Agschmid]

34. As are the folks acting as if she signed the letter with no meaning.

That being said you are correct the letter is not in any way and endorsement of any kind.

[whatchamacallit]

37. That's the point

It may have had meaning to her, it has little to me.

[Agschmid]

38. That's fine.

Your vote your choice.

[merrily]

44. No, it had meaning. Perhaps not the meaning you are trying to superimpose upon it, though.

[Agschmid]

46. I am not claiming it's an endorsement by any means, nor have I at any point.

It certainly does show some level of support and that is well after the "trust issues" video.

Look Warren will endorse whoever she wants to and there is nothing wrong with that, what is wrong is people on DU repeatedly trying to have it both ways.

[merrily]

47. "what is wrong is people on DU repeatedly trying to have it both ways" Priceless!

I do not try to have it both ways. People who say or imply that I do are clueless.

[Agschmid]

49. Did I say you?

No I said people on DU. If I said/meant you I would have used the word "you".

[marym625]

52. Yep.

I truly can't imagine that she'll endorse Hillary. But, you never know. I mean in the primary of course

[beam me up scottie]

53. Manny's taking bets but I don't want any of that action.

Even if it is for charity.

[marym625]

56. just love him

I may throw a couple of bucks for that

[beam me up scottie]

57. He made GDP bearable when I thought I couldn't take it anymore.

To Manny --

[marym625]

58. he sure did

For me too!

To Manny!

[840high]

59. me2

to manny

[marym625]

61. it's a Manny appreciation subthread

Seems appropriate.

[beam me up scottie]

62. Indeed!

[merrily]

32. Not to mention all the references to "hate."

[NuclearDem]

8. Well, we figured we'd give you someone other than Trey Gowdy to listen to.

[whatchamacallit]

13. Cute.

[SunSeeker]

55. LOL nt

[reformist2]

26. It may not work on you, but it's going to work on millions of lukewarm Hillary fans.

The fact is, Elizabeth Warren has a LOT more honesty, integrity, and credibility than HRC. When she says that Hillary changed positions because of Wall Street pressure, most people believe her.

[AtomicKitten]

27. Elizabeth Warren has also been very critical of Hillary.

Other than a point of interest, endorsements don't really do anything for me either.

[merrily]

45. Indeed she has, and over a period of years, too.

[uponit7771]

35. Not trying to influence your vote, just trying to negate the right wing narative that Hillary is the

... evil

[whatchamacallit]

39. If I conclude Hillary is unworthy through my own observation

it won't matter what Warren thinks.

[uponit7771]

40. True and expected, Hillary is not the evil though... many "progressives" believe so

[Nye Bevan]

48. You have every right to disagree with Elizabeth Warren about stuff (nt)

[DrBulldog]

50. Why not guide your opinion of Hillary simply by researching the facts on her?

That's what most intelligent rational people do.

[Thespian2]

54. I have followed Hillary quite closely...

I gather she is a corporate shill who has voted against many progressive ideas and policies and principles...she is beholding to wall street, Big Pharma, the military industrial complex...and many other organizations determined to control America for the people who control global corporations...I have found absolutely nothing that says she will not sell out America and be much worse than Obama...

You may now begin to state chapter and verse about her "amazingly great record" from her Walmart connections, to her connections with Goldman Sachs, CIBC, etc., to her disastrous votes as senator, including her vote for killing American soldiers in Iraq...

[840high]

60. ....x10+

[treestar]

63. but your double standards will be observed

and noted.