2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumPolls Minus Biden (Spoiler Alert: Hillary Surge, Part 2)
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/upshot/joe-bidens-decision-and-hillary-clintons-victory.html
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Pretty sure everyone already knew that a Joe run would have drawn more from erstwhile Clinton supporters.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)His speech in the beginning sounded like a Bernie speech.
But it will be politically easier for him to back Hillary.
It takes courage for a politician to back Bernie because Hillary has so much money, and she is very vindictive. She will not forget anyone who does not back her.
jfern
(5,204 posts)The party is basically the Clinton party, and offers less and less for liberals or people who are sick of tried of DWS running the party into the ground. They don't mind a 3rd way "Democrat" President with a Republican congress, it gives them more excuses for sucking.
George II
(67,782 posts)Now Sanders supporters are adopting the republican terminology for OUR party?
It's DemocratIC President, unless you're a republican.
jfern
(5,204 posts)Parse it that way and it makes sense
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)Quotation marks = so-called
therefore
"Democrat" = DINO
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)In fact if anything, she had learned from Obama, that political campaign opponents does not make an enemy. What possible issue could Hillary have over Biden since he is likley to be out of elected political office once Her Presidency starts.
If she were so vindictive, there would be a string of collateral damage from the last run she had....care to point out a list that would support your silly, sour, assertions?
George II
(67,782 posts)Pretty much a 3-1 or 4-1 split of Biden voters.
riversedge
(70,084 posts)they have one prepared for if he DID rung.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)They say that Clinton won the debate, and they want her to be the candidate. They have more footage of her than Bernie. They want more money for TV ads. They want a sensational negative campaign. They can't be bothered by issues, and should these polls be true, neither do the people!
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Hillary supporters are people not some cable news organization.
The "people" thing is elitist and I am sick of seeing it!
brooklynite
(94,333 posts)...and are working through "anger".
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Will try to control it
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)Clearly, they must.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)The people are elitist? Are you sure that you are not projecting that?
How do you know that the polling outfit didn't craft the questions to get the answer that they wanted? I did not see these questions in the article, nor did I see them in any articles that state that either candidate is ahead.
I am not being elitist, I am just calling it as I see it. AFAIC, "good" polling outfits take these polls for someone. When they do that, they already know the answer that they want from the respondents. They craft their questions in such a way as to get whatever answer that they want. I have been called several times, and this is always the case. I therefore have little faith in ANY poll any more.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)By logic, The People overwhelmingly support Hillary and want her to be president.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)The corporations own this country, and will influence the vote however they see fit. If it means rigging polls, or rigging elections.
If you don't see this, you have either bought into their propaganda, or are a tool.
By logic. What logic? Flawed logic? Please define what you mean by "by logic," and tell me the "logical" points that make Clinton a better candidate than any other candidate. Thanks in advance.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Just posting a snarky icon instead of answering my question?
Or can you answer it?
I'm not really sure.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Just a snarky avatar.
This is what I get from RepubliCONs. Are you sure that you are not one of them. You are certainly using their same tactics.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)I believe that most people are "sheep." They follow who others deem are "popular," without doing much to consider why they are doing this.
treestar
(82,383 posts)We are that mindless?
And the polls are a part of a conspiracy to elect Hillary?
You seriously expect people to believe this?
William769
(55,144 posts)Kind of blows your theory out of the water now doesn't it?
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)My wife, too.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)It's a fact. The corporate media has corrupted the system. Moneyed interests are going to be the end of Humanity. Capitalism shall lead to extinction. Mark my words.
William769
(55,144 posts)Oops. Bye Bye Soviet Union.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They need to be warned ASAP!
William769
(55,144 posts)mmonk
(52,589 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It is actually something all political watchers are interested in. With that taken care of, your overall point is spot on. If Hillary wins the primary, she will need you. At least a good portion of current Sanders supporters. Same goes if Sanders wins the primary. He will need us in strong numbers.
Fla Dem
(23,586 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Hows that saying go?
This changes everything!
tecelote
(5,122 posts)Just maybe, money doesn't buy everything.
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)tecelote
(5,122 posts)It may not buy this election either.
This time the stakes are higher - Barack is good, Hillary will be good but Bernie will change America forever.
Time for a new deal.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)We will have a Republican House of Representatives until 2023 which will not pass anything transformative.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)But... enough of them didn't listen to this type of crap. They won.
Time for a new deal.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Progressive bills. Alternatively, please list the Republican gerrymandered districts you think we can flip to Democratic such that it is enough so that control of the House will flip.
I'll save you the time, you will fail on both counts.
Our government and voters are not the Canadian government and voters.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)So, listening to you, why vote? It won't matter.
Republicans are so scattered they don't even agree among themselves. Bernie at least will fight for change. You propose we just accept the status quo. I believe it is important we don't listen to defeatists and vote our conscience.
You can hide in a hole. I'll stand tall and vote for Bernie.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I know what we need to do to succeed. We need to win back state houses so we can reverse the gerrymandering after the 2020 election and it will affect the 2022 election whose winners take office in Jan 2023. That is not defeatism, that is realism backed by how elections and redistricting works.
I know that until we do that Republicans will control the House. That is not defeatism, that is realism.
I know if Republicans control the House, they will not pass virtually anything that a Democratic President proposes. That is not defeatism, that is analysis of nearly 16 years of the current and prior Democratic Presidents. In other words, it's not defeatism, it's realism backed by experience.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)"We will have a Republican House of Representatives until 2023 which will not pass anything transformative."
Realism can be defeatist. You just proved it.
I'll still vote with hope in my heart. It's the only way forward.
Maybe it takes another decade but that's still better than the alternatives.
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)Assuming you're right, that Republicans will control the House until at least 2023 and that they will not pass virtually anything that a Democratic President proposes, then it sounds like there would be, in practice, virtually no difference between a Clinton or Sanders presidency, correct?
If that's the case, I'd still rather see Sanders there if only symbolically. If nothing else, he moves the conversation further left, which is at least a small step, versus no step. You have to start somewhere, even if you are at first unsuccessful.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Hillary would have advantages in experience and not having to learn on the job since she was SecState.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Actually a lot of the Gulf coast is doable. That still doesn't get us to 218 though.
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)in the 60-30 range within two weeks. That's pretty close to what you're showing, but I'd add a couple of points, now that Biden has announced he's not running.
CTyankee
(63,889 posts)all the way. We watched the Biden speech and agreed that Hillary would benefit a LOT by Joe's move today.
But we aren't arguing. He knows that I will support her if she our candidate. It's all good.
I think Biden's departure was so graceful that he helped our party enormously.
Hope we don't get too hot under the collar here at DU. I don't want any gut wrench infighting...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It was obvious to me that Biden was just included in the polls when he wasn't running so that there would be this bump to push up Clinton's numbers and make it look like Bernie was falling behind.
Bernie is not falling behind. He has a long way to go, but these numbers have been the reality all along.
California voters love Bernie. At least that is what I find when I go out and campaign.
Hillary's economic plan -- what there is of it -- is not well thought through. Her proposals are not funded or at least she does not explain where she will find the money for most of them. Hillary's idea is to get business to bail out the middle class. Business, at least big business, is not going to volunteer to help the middle class. That is so much pie in the sky. It's not their job. Their job is to make money for themselves and their shareholders.
And most small businesses are having a tough enough time making it and can't bail out the middle class. It's the investor class, the top 1% or maybe 2 or 3 % that have to pay to strengthen the middle class.
Bernie's idea of raising the cap on Social Security taxes is a no brainer. It has to happen.
So does his idea of funding college tuition in state schools of higher learning and technical colleges out of a small tax on trades on Wall Street and in other markets. That is a brilliant idea. It would also ensure that the gambling trades are reported and tracked. Our government should track all those trades.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)So start the coronation. Nobody needs these silly primaries any way.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)on election night when it was clear the Mitt wasn't going to beat Obama. They'll still be putting up polls saying that Hillary has the support of the people behind her until they finally look at the actual results and realize Hillary wasn't winning after all.
The Democratic Party under the Clintons and Obama has steadily drifted rightward since 2000, making a futile attempt to attract southern white voters who will never vote for a political party that doesn't promise to protect white privilege. The Clinton/Obama Democratic Party is as close to Wall Street and the wealthy elite as their Republican counterparts, differing only on politically expedient social issues. We don't need another Clinton in office to dig us further in the quicksand - Bernie is at least promising to bring the Democrats back to being the party that champions the working folk of the US.
All of the corporate media is anti-Bernie, and it was proven last week that they literally suppress any data suggesting Bernie is more popular than the candidate they've chosen for us. So believe this "NBC/WSJ, FOX News, Quinnipiac, CNN, CBS/NYT, ABC/Washington Post" poll if you want - because we know they are all fair and unbiased.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)to get the answers that they want. I see it done all the time. They don't want someone who is not a corporatist. Welcome to the Oligarchy.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Obama's electoral base that gave him the election were the traditional Big Ten states (Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, and even Indiana once) and yes, he won Florida, Virginia, and North Carolina (once)...those wins in the south had more to do with demographic changes than anything else.
The split among white voters was quite different in the Midwest as opposed to much of the South and its' what gave him the victory.
Obama attracted areas in the Midwest that are (or were) traditionally Reagan Democrat territory, which is a bit different from the Southern Dixiecrats. (Obama won Macomb County, Michigan twice).
DCBob
(24,689 posts)About 2 to 1 for Hillary.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Anything but Hillary types who are still Third Way Corporatists?