2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSANDERS OR BUST!
There is NO alternative to a Sanders presidency. Anything else means continued preservation of the status quo, and degradation for average americans. Fuck the corporate media and their tools of propaganda, Bernie didn't need them to set this thing on fire and doesn't need them now. We just have to keep making noise, raising money, using social media, and taking it to the streets. Feel the Bern!
Response to whatchamacallit (Original post)
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peacebird
(14,195 posts)& Repubs. Clinton, the Repubs despise her with a white hot passion and will come out just to vote against her.
but God forbid you bring that up around here because you'll get your head bit off by Hillary supporters lol
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Repubs, Libertarians etc. We are getting only the Dem base and he's taking from that also.
FloridaBlues
(4,002 posts)He's got a long way to catch up to Hillary .
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)for one of two reasons. One, to get support for a candidate at this point in time, or possibly to give people who don't follow politics closely a reason to vote for the anyone leading any poll.
I don't give much credence to so many polls now. It's a YEAR OUT! Crazy seeing these polls on a daily basis so it's bothersome seeing them, but I wonder who, what or WHY is behind so many of them. On both sides.!
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)because republicans like him more that Hillary?
No sale. SMH
tecelote
(5,122 posts)The New Deal produced a political realignment, making the Democratic Party the majority (as well as the party that held the White House for seven out of nine Presidential terms from 1933 to 1969).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal
RichVRichV
(885 posts)Obviously voting for who you believe matches your views and best represents you is the reason to vote for someone. But quit acting like drawing Republican voters in is a bad thing by any of our candidates.
People here keep saying we have to retake congress, no president will get much done with Republicans controlling congress. Well one of the best ways to retake it is to siphon voters from the Republican party. The hardest part about getting a Republican to vote for a Democrat is getting them to do it that first time, simply getting them to admit they even could. Once they vote for one Democrat it becomes much easier for them to choose to vote for more Democrats.
We're not talking about the rabid bigoted zealots here. They're never voting for any Democrat. But many Republicans are getting sick of their party going crazy in spite of decades of brain washing that the our side is evil. If we can convince them to vote Democrat just once we may be able to win them over permanently.
The same is true of disenfranchised voters. If we can draw them in and show them that we're listening to their voices finally we may gain reliable new voters to our rolls from here on out.
As long as we don't sell out our ideals doing so, drawing in new voters is never a bad thing.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)If you think that body hated Obama, you ain't seen nothin' yet!
At least Sanders knows how to get stuff done in Congress. Far more than the Queen.
* Leverage her status as a Washington insider to present herself to voters as a pragmatist uniquely qualified to get things done as president.
* Draw a contrast between herself and her main rival, independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, who she insinuated is a progressive that does not get things done.
This line of attack works because it plays on a common stereotype that socialists and progressives are more interested in ideological purity than in making real-world progress, but when we compare their respective legislative records in the Senate, it turns out Sanders got more meaningful legislation done than Clinton.
https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/fact-bernie-sanders-got-more-done-in-the-senate-than-hillary-clinton/
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Gore1FL
(21,095 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)And garner huge Dem turnout for down ticket races.
Response to JaneyVee (Reply #15)
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JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)In the debate when asked how their presidency would be different from Obama's, the first thing Hil said was to the effect of "I will be a woman, the first woman president ever!" Anderson quickly brought her back on the tracks and asked how her policies would be different.
Hil has obviously been told by her handlers that being a woman polls well so she's playing it up for all its worth.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)Yeah - we most definitely need to have a woman president - the RIGHT one. Not one that qualifies primarily by her "equipment". And here's another facet that I RARELY see mentioned around here. All promises and professments aside - we'll be putting Slick Willy RIGHT in the thick of things. If we can delude ourselves into thinking HE won't be an influence we'll get more of the center-right crap that we got the last time he lived at that address!
Oh yeah! He'll have some superfluous crusade - certainly not planting veggies - or beautifying the nations ditches with wildflowers, but some feel-goody thing we can all cheer about. But he'll be the unofficial chief of staff - you can make book on that. Hell, maybe OFFICIAL Chief of Staff! Why not?
Like so many here, I wanted Warren to run. But she's right about her mission at this time. She's already done good where she's at and she'd be a great first basewoman for Bernie. So Bernie OR Bust!
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Do we really want that? NAFTA, Telecom Act, Welfare destruction?...I don't think so.
I can't tell you how many people I've talked to in person and online, repub, independent and Democrat, who say "please, no more Bushes or Clintons!"
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Enjoy.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)Or white, or conservative, or African American, or liberal, or funny hair, or whatever. See you don't make the rules. We do. We choose for whatever reason. Welcome to democracy Apple Bee.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)And she would depress voter turnout in the general, which would lead to more losses for ad's across the board.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)In general the People support Sanders and Goldman-Sachs and Time Warner support HRC.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Outside of Democrats, Hillary is pretty much despised and has a big trust problem across the board of republicans and independents. This would help explain why her numbers polled against repub candidates are not strong nationally.
YabaDabaNoDinoNo
(460 posts)dirtydickcheney
(242 posts)She'll pull nobody from the Republican nominee- Bernie will.
Please explain why a Republican would vote for a Republican-Lite (HRC) vs. the Real Republican (their nominee)?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Perhaps you should venture outside your anti-Clinton bubble.
dirtydickcheney
(242 posts)What's her equivalent of the humungous rallies that I see for Bernie with Hillary?
My equivalent statement -" come out of your pro-Corporate, let's-win-one-for-the-D's - (their policies, meh, whocares??) as long as they've got a D next to their name, pro-Harold Ford, pro Debbie Wasserman Schultz bubble"
It's not ANTI-CLINTON - it's anti-(Third Way/DLC/Corporatist) agenda.
You know THAT one - I refuse to support "Democrats" whose agenda is closer to George W. Bush's than FDR's.
riversedge
(70,047 posts)...Please explain why a Republican would vote for a Republican-Lite (HRC) vs.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)to show up like HRH. She's good for at least a million or two extra Repig votes, nationally. Which is readily apparent to anyone with six functioning brain cells. They are DYING to run against her.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)her way worse than they ever treated Obama and she has to know that as well.
So why is she really doing this?
If she get her butt handed to her in the GE and we get one of those bat shit crazies, who will her supporters then blame, as if I didn't already know the answer to that.
artislife
(9,497 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)Darb
(2,807 posts)So you feel the same as the Pubes and kooks and Tee Potty?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I live in a red state. I know tons of them. They despise her. They are fans of Palin.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)than her supporters dream of.
After all, if women were simply eager to vote for a woman, any woman, Sarah Palin would be our vice-president. And Wendy Davis would be Governor of Texas. And Alison Grimes would be a Senator.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Response to JaneyVee (Reply #15)
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peacebird
(14,195 posts)WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.
Then Bernie will win.
stevil
(1,537 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)And thanks, I will have fun.
stevil
(1,537 posts)Divisive hyperbole FTW!
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Or hadn't you noticed?
stevil
(1,537 posts)I guess I'm too busy trying to get voters in the real world to look at our candidates. By all means, enjoy whatever it is you think you are doing in this OP.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Congratulations.
artislife
(9,497 posts)for stopping your busy schedule and gracing us with your presence.
To relay...what exactly?
Uh huh.
stevil
(1,537 posts)There is nothing degrading about winning the election with any Democratic candidate. Please....
OH THE DRAMA!!!!
artislife
(9,497 posts)MineralMan
(146,248 posts)I'd gladly vote for Bernie in the General Election. I doubt I will have that opportunity, though.
BooScout
(10,406 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Just a member of her cult of personality
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)no hard feelings
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
So now supporters are cult members? Will the name calling ever stop?
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:51 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
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Explanation: If HRH supporters ever talked about policy I might hide this. But I can't vote to hide the truth.
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I was #4.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Response to Rose Siding (Reply #73)
BeanMusical This message was self-deleted by its author.
portlander23
(2,078 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)TBF
(32,000 posts)and I am voting for Bernie. Period.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Get your ass to the voting booth no matter who wins the nomination. Anything less would be uncivilized.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Can't vote for that corporate war hawk.
I will vote Dems down-ticket, however, if there are any running in my state.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)I fear any presidential candidate pitching an unsustainable economic system, like the one America has had since 1981.
The right to get married won't do happy gay couples any good if the middle class continues to contract.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)But they sure as hell won't matter to a wingnut SCOTUS. So go ahead and throw your vote away.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)But they won't mean anything to a corporate executive moving black jobs out of the country, either. Ask the unemployed backs of Baltimore about that.
I'm not concerned about a wingnut SCOTUS because no Republican is going to win the presidency in 2016. The next president will either be Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton.
Jackilope
(819 posts)Seriously, I am tired of holding my nose and voting for Blue Dog Corporate GOP Lite. The game is rigged either way. HRC will toss Progressives a few crumbs, if elected, but she is a corporate hawk. I live in a Red State, my vote won't matter in the whole electoral college map.
I totally get why the number of Independents are growing.
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)Then Bernie will win.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)is a vote for
corporate control and bailouts
tpp ..she will change her mind
war, war, war
citizens united support and more dark money
endless attacks by republicans and possible indictment or impeachment
an endless rosd of obstructionism and stagnancy
lies, lies, and more lies
no thank you
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Bill Clinton nominated the 2 most liberal judges on the bench.
Black Lives Matter.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)who do you think is disproportionally affected when we go into wars of choice?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Many of the 16,000,000 American children are black and will not be helped if we get a Goldman-Sachs sponsored president that will put corporate profits above everything.
Sen Sanders is committed to helping all of the 99%.
ccinamon
(1,696 posts)I feel the same way ---Hillary MIGHT throw the liberal/progressives a few small bones, but she is SOOOOOOO firmly wedded to her corporate sponsors, there is no way she will deliver any significant liberal/progressive measures.
The biggest thing to me: CEO of Goldman-Sachs said "he would be happy with either Hillary Clinton or Jeb Bush as president".....
WHY would any sane/real liberal/progressive vote for a candidate that has the support of the CEO of Goldman-Sachs?????
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Sad but true.
Its also cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The people who scream the loudest about the oligarchy will help the koch bros puppet get elected. Damn just damn.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I live in a red state. No way it will swing. I can vote my conscience and not have to worry that I harmed a fly. I will know I didn't. I won't be voting for any insane Republican and I won't be voting for a DINO who will do nothing to help the working and middle class while sending their kids to war.
We're onto this game, now, and we're tired of playing it. The oligarchy will continue with either Clinton and whatever dumbass the Republicans nominate, so my so-called "screaming" and a buck fifty will get me nothing more with one than it would with the other.
Damn... just damn, is right.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)all Bernie backers who think Hillary is not holy enough to vote for on election day.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Scroll down to post #76 for some really jaw-dropping commentary about Hillary.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)I'll vote Democratic on the down ticket if I have that option.
Still hoping for Bernie to pull it off.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)You and I don't have to worry about our votes. We could vote for God, but the state would still hand our 11 EC votes to the Republican.
okasha
(11,573 posts)He's cutting off other people's noses to feed his righteous indignation.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)You wouldn't want Mr. Trump to win now, would you?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I won't be the only one not enthused to vote for more of the same.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)But the enthusiasm for Sen Sanders is a rejection of the strangle-hold corporations like Goldman-Sachs has on our government. They want change and will not be happy if the big money (Citizens United) pushes Clinton into office.
A Goldman-Sachs Administration in the WH will not care about the 16 million American children living in poverty. We need change.
LuvLoogie
(6,908 posts)then the Supreme Court would have ruled differently for all the genuine authenticity.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)like she will be glad to use it for her benefit in getting into the WH. Situational ethics.
artislife
(9,497 posts)situational ethics.
That just describes her to a t.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)As you say, anything less would be uncivilized.
Renew Deal
(81,844 posts)People sold your "no difference" line of BS in 2000 and we all learned how wrong they are. Some of the examples are below:
So tell us again how there is no difference between the parties. You are dangerously wrong.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Yeah she's different
Renew Deal
(81,844 posts)Do you think Gore would have read the PDB's? Do you think Gore would have failed to prepare for Katrina? Do you think Gore would have left policies in place that would have collapsed the economy? And then there's Citizens United.
You're not only wrong, but you're embarrassing yourself.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)We're not discussing Gore, we're talking about the Clintons, and they're BFFs with the family that brought us all that mayhem.
Oh look - http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251710483
Darb
(2,807 posts)Don't play dumb, it's unbecoming.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)If there's some 'dumb' happening here, it's not with me.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)"a sister-in-law" That's just a wee bit chummier than usual, don't you think? He calls the Clintons "honorary members" of the Bush Crime Family.
The pertinent quote is from the Washington Post, BTW.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)Hint: It wasn't Rumsfeld
and another:
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Also not Rumsfeld
Response to Renew Deal (Reply #13)
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Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)How IS that any different?
Renew Deal
(81,844 posts)Don't be ridiculous.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)I didn't see her being outspoken on strengthening bank regulations or repairing our infractrucure.
Bernie has been right all along on these issues.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)That's why I used a qualifier.
But, apparently, people don't read.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)the fact that the grassroots warned them not to. It turned off a lot of voters. Now the DLC or The Third Way are again going to run a Conservative DEmocrat. Don't blame a loss on the voters. Blame the loss on the choice of candidates.
No one ever said that both parties are the same, the have said over and over that the leadership of both parties are beholden to the same oligarchy. Also said is that we need a progressive president.
The argument that one should choose the bad cop because the other choice is a terrible cop is worn out.
In 2000 the oligarchy didn't care if it was Conservative Gore or Conservative Bush. In 2016 Goldman-Sachs repeated the thought, either the conservative Clinton or the Conservative Bush.
If you want to defeat the Republicons, don't nominate a conservative Democrat.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)But then we got pardons for Telecom lawbreakers, Bankers gone wild, and TPP.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)progressive to the point the oligarchs decided not to try to force use with conservative HRC but go with a conservative Obama dressed in conservative clothes. We voted for change and got more of the same old shit. 16,000,000 American children living in poverty and another 16,000,000 living in low income homes and not a word from the president. Vote for Goldman-Sachs and watch those numbers grow.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)in 2008 anyway. But by 2012 I knew we had been scammed and left it blank.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)He was far more indignant about shit that doesn't matter than stuff that does.
YabaDabaNoDinoNo
(460 posts)freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)Gore did win the election until the Supreme Court overturned it.
And he was right on target about one issue -- climate change -- that matters very much. The rest of the political world still hasn't caught up with him on that.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)There were questions as to whether Jeb committed voter fraud in Florida. And the SCOTUS decision was questionable. There were questions concerning Kerry's loss as well. But the Democrats pathetically did what they always do, let themselves be bullied by the Republicans..
There's a difference between the parties. But it's not the kind of difference that inspires people to stay in the party or to get young people to the polls. Voting for Clinton is more like voting in a Republican primary when they still had a strong moderate presence.
Yea, I'd rather have Barry Goldwater or even Dick Nixon as President than Ted Cruz, but don't expect me to get excited about it..
riversedge
(70,047 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)where has it gotten us to ? BERNIE OR BUST !!!!!!!
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.
Then Bernie will win.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)How 'bout this....instead of screaming over the interwebz and pounding away on your keyboard, why don't you step away from your computer and knock on people's doors and tell them about Bernie Sanders?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)that's advice for yourself.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Do you see me creating posts titled "CANDIDATE X OR BUST!"?
I was motivated in the 2007/08 primaries and went door-to-door. Right now I probably wont be decided until early next year shortly before the primaries start.
It's fine to be a keyboard warrior, but it really does nothing to help your candidate.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Posting rancid shit about Sanders and his supporters is practically a vocation for you.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Not everyone is going to fall in love with your candidate and not everyone is going to scream "SANDERS OR BUST!"
That's when you need to start informing people about Sanders by knocking on doors, phone banking, volunteering etc. You want people to vote for him, right? Well convince people to vote for him.
I'm assuming that's your goal, although I'm not entirely sure.
One of the 99
(2,280 posts)I worked for Obama in 08 and 12. As important is electing Dems to Congress and state legislatures.
Darb
(2,807 posts)the high post count DUer.
What color pony is it?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)stevil
(1,537 posts)Get a new line
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,081 posts)"Over the past couple of months it has been revealing to watch the Democratic presidential crusade and not because the candidates are very different. No, what has been exposed is a seeming chasm between supporters of the two leading candidates and the vitriol coming out of one candidates supporters is getting tiresome."
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/10/21/scientific-polls-rising-numbers-reveal-hillary-clinton-won-debate.html
I began reading Hillary's economic proposals and job growth plan last night. Not at all different from Bernie's.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)I began reading Hillary's economic proposals and job growth plan last night. Not at all different from Bernie's.
But when did it become so??? She has her wind vane up and running and leans whichever direction it is blowing... She will echo/clone Bernie's points as she goes... Take a look at 15 years ago and compare both stands on any issues and see how close they are...-
Response to SleeplessinSoCal (Reply #54)
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liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)How are their stances on minimum wages not different? How are their stances on SS not different than each others? Will Hillary pay for college the same way we pay for K-12 like Bernie wants to? Will Hillary raise the minimum wage to $15/hr? Will Hillary expand SS? Yes, there are huge differences between Bernie and Hillary and you can call it "my way or the highway" if you want. I really don't give a shit. I will only vote for Bernie. I will never vote for Hillary.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)davemac
(28 posts)In the corporate corner, weighing in at a massive $5 Billion, wearing silky blue (very expensive) shorts is the Corporate tag team of Trump, Bush, Rubio, Fiorina and Clinton. In the Poeple's corner lean and mean in his red raggered shorts, with a look of "hell-be-damned" in his eye, stands Bernie....the ref, Corporate Media, is straight out of the back pocket of the crooked corporations.....let the fight begin.........
V0ltairesGh0st
(306 posts)has been on the warpath on DU lately... They must also concede that if Bernie is the Nominee, they must all swallow thier pride... and vote for him too. Otherwise they are just DU hypocrites.
riversedge
(70,047 posts)Hillary supporter say they would not vote for Sanders if he is the nominee.
And no warpath on DU by Hillary Supporters. She is rising is the polls--about 5 of them last few days plus her stellar performance last week. Time to be joyous. No warpath.
V0ltairesGh0st
(306 posts)you won't see it, but it wouldn't occur for you to look.
riversedge
(70,047 posts)V0ltairesGh0st
(306 posts)onenote
(42,531 posts)I'm a Bernie supporter (and have the cancelled check to prove it). And I think it would be great if he gets the nomination and wins the presidency.
But, if that doesn't happen, I will turn my support to the Democratic nominee.
Why? Because the statement that "Anything else means continued preservation of the status quo" is simply ridiculous and because there will be plenty of changes in the status quo if a repub is elected that will adversely impact us for a generation or more.
More specifically, you can bet the ranch that the following will happen if a repub is elected:
Network neutrality is gone within the six months, thrown out by a 3-2 vote of a repub-majority FCC
Executive orders regarding minimum wage for government contractors are gone in the first month.
Other executive orders on immigration, guns, and a variety of other topics-- gone in the first two weeks.
The deal with Iran -- repudiated within the first week.
Same sex marriage decision by Supreme Court -- overturned within first term assuming Ginsburg (83 on inauguration day) or Breyer Kennedy (80) or Breyer (78) steps down in that time period.
Any chance of overturning CU in next four years --- gone.
Supreme Court's rw majority strengthened for another generation when Scalia steps down in year three to ensure that a repub president can name a like-thinking justice half his age to take his place.
State laws restricting voting rights go unchallenged by DOJ and/or are upheld by SCOTUS.
Any state gun laws -- at risk in the courts.
If a Democrat is elected -- Bernie OR Clinton -- none of those changes in the status quo occur.
A few do occur however:
Ginsburg probably is replaced by another justice in the mold of Kagan/Sotamayor/Breyer who is half her age.
If something happens to Kennedy or Scalia (80 on inauguration day), the court shifts from repub appointed majority to Democratic president appointed majority. The odds of CU being overturned increase dramatically as do the odds of state and local gun laws being upheld.
It's not even a close call unless you're a hypocrite who celebrated decisions like Obergefell but doesn't care when it's reversed and stays reversed for a generation. Or someone who called out Kim Davis but now is willing to live with a Supreme Court that likely agrees with her. Or who complained about CU and is willing to pass up the best opportunity in a generation to see it overturned.
smiley
(1,432 posts)A vote for HRC is a vote for the GOP!
Go Bernie!
Rafale
(291 posts)Is a vote for New York banksters. The ideology of cash supersedes all. Go ahead and bicker amongst yourselves. Clownish.
smiley
(1,432 posts)So I'm guessing you meant to reply to someone else.
Go Bernie!!
Rafale
(291 posts)Go Bernie!
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)You would need a majority for that.
DianeK
(975 posts)stay tuned and see how it's done
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)JI7
(89,239 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)idiotic story. Fresh off her strong performance at the debates....zzzzzz which Bernie won she'll get another bump ho hum. hey if you love the XL Pipeline go all in..
TheFarseer
(9,317 posts)I expect to get screwed over by republicans but to get screwed by our own hurts a lot worse and sets us back from getting a real friend of working people into the white house.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)One of the 99
(2,280 posts)and hopefully in the GE. However, if he doesn't win the Democratic nomination; I'll vote for whoever is the Democratic party nominee is. Even the very worst of the Dems is still better than the best of the Republicans.
In 2000 we were told that the was no difference between Bush and Gore. But we found out that wasn't true. Let's not make the same mistake again.
If you're lucking enough to live in a solid blue or red state; you can follow your conscience. But if you're in a swing state, vote for the Democrat.
artislife
(9,497 posts)One of the 99
(2,280 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)out of his hat, as of late.
One of the 99
(2,280 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)If you care about the people of this country, now is the time to put everything you can into backing Bernie Sanders for the Democratic Primary. This might be our last chance, so ...
Let's do it!
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ucrdem
(15,512 posts)This is the end game I've been expecting all along, and one of several reasons I've thought letting Sanders pretend to be a Dem was a mistake from the get-go. I'd much rather HRC kept a clear focus on her GOP opponents.
TheKentuckian
(25,018 posts)party is even redeemable at all.
You folks have been warned in no uncertain terms for years that the Turd Way has to be flushed and the lurching to the right chasing a bunch of wackos off into oblivion in a vain (and i suspect a dishonestly phony one too since the actual consistent push is to make a demographically diverse, more secular wing of the conservative party) effort to make "warm purple sauce" (an absurd proposition because meeting off the meter crazy, greed, and stupid in the middle still gets you fucked up, delusional, and cruel) but propping up failure that benefits a few people's pockets and maintains their power is the only actual objective for too many.
There was going to be no embracing of the suck either way but here we have a chance to start the slow move of turning the tide rather than keep marching off the cliff.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,018 posts)Just win, baby worked fine in the 70's and 80's for my football team (and even there over time has become somewhat self defeating in a eat the seed corn/foundation of sand kind of way) but self governance takes a hell of a lot more than look at the scoreboard, the actual winning comes after that prerequisite not in and of it.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Clinton is going to take it barring catastrophe and I don't consider bank reform a "vision." Obama has a vision and I agree with it; furthermore, he's been carrying it out. And Clinton is the candidate best positioned to to continue in that direction So I'm satisfied that she's the best man for the job, so to speak. Which boils down to what I said the first time: we just have to win.
StrongBad
(2,100 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,081 posts)He makes the point I think important. We have to move left. We are doomed if we don't. Hillary can pivot from center to center left and bring the vital middle with her.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)I will not be held hostage by the DNC nor DWS. They need to act as DEMOCRATS. Third Way? No Fucking Way.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Sanders or this will be the first time in my lifetime I WILL NOT VOTE FOR PRESIDENT. Just the rest of the ballot and mailing it in.
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)Better than leaving that line blank.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)In a General Election does not count in my State. It's like writing Mickey Mouse on the ballot and that will not be counted. Write Ins Count in the Primary Election and I will write Bernie in during the Primary if he's not on the ballot already --- but the general election -- if he's not there ---I won't vote for President, period.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)If Democrats don't want to support Bernie, our country is not going to do well.
There is, in my view, no point in voting for Hillary. She willjust continue the status quo that gets nothing done.
ccinamon
(1,696 posts)We've been told for 35 years we need to "suck it up" and vote for the 3rd Way/DLC candidate because that's the only way Democrats can win...it's a lie.
We CAN and WILL win with a real progressive candidate, like Bernie, AND (a very big AND) if the DNC/DLC plays fair and doesn't rig the voting machines.
I can soooooo see them using the Republican coders to write code to alter the counts during the primary.
Beausoir
(7,540 posts)delusion.
grandpamike1
(193 posts)I love Bernie, but if he is not the nominee, I will vote for Hilary, because, even if she is what you say, the next President gets to pick 2 maybe 3 Supreme Court Justices, and if you think that a Republican President would not pick the likes of Scalia, Roberts, or mute Thomas or Alito, then you are smoking some powerful dope. While Clinton has many faults, she is better than a Republican, remember that.
marym625
(17,997 posts)#FeelTheBern
#Bernie2016
Taking it to the streets
okasha
(11,573 posts)PatrickforO
(14,557 posts)I'm with you. So is my wife, my son and my daughter. And we all vote.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Gamecock Lefty
(700 posts)RAISE HILL 2016!
retrowire
(10,345 posts)pairs your candidates name with the word "hell".
hmm.
KPN
(15,635 posts)Still feelin' the Bern! ... because it's real. I'm sticking with Bernie till the end. Hillary's numbers (somewhat flawed and absolutely manipulated by the corporate media) are a blip in time. There's absolutely no reason to capitulate at this point.
I say worrying now about the general is just another form of triangulation. It gets us nowhere ... and for that reason is nothing more than, well, WORRYING! On the other hand, Feelin' the Bern is action and a mindset. I'm with Bernie all the way. Action and mindset over acquiescence and worry.
If Hillary wins the nomination, so be it. But I'm with Bernie till the end.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Go Bernie!
No more proud Capitalists!
Nitram
(22,755 posts)Hillary Clinton and Martin O'Malley would both be good presidents as well. We get it. You'll just give up if Clinton wins. I'm going to vote for the Democratic nominee. Bernie is not the only liberal candidate who cares about the average American. And stop using the media as an excuse in advance for Bernie's eventual flameout. I'm reading a lot of good stuff about Bernie in the media I get my information from. (Btw, I don't watch TV.
donnasgirl
(656 posts)And yes Bernie Sanders is the only one for my Family, i don't know how others feel but i will not vote for a person i view as no better than a Republican. It is a grass roots Candidate or nothing, we refuse to vote for Candidates who are bought and paid for by wall street and other money men.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)NOTHING CHANGES!!!!
Not until money is taken out of politics! Sanders will be in D.C. staring at the same paid for Congress BRICK WALL every other Democratic POTUS has had to look at.
I'm 100% behind Bernie but just like I said when Obama was running far too many people think if he is elected everything will change...NO IT WON'T!!!
It takes time...Lots of time changing a what you can a little at time like Obama did (or be one term Prez) & getting money out of politics!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,164 posts)Its true, in this internet age, we Bernie supporters, do not NEED the television main news networks. In fact, wouldn't that be grand if suddenly there was no TV News at all. And people were forced to actually surf the internet for their news where they would find any and all sides to a story.
No, the danger is not that they will simply ignore more progressive candidates, its that they will actively work to discredit a candidate like Bernie Sanders at the most opportune and/or critical time in the campaign. (see "the Dean Scream" Just wait, if and when Sanders stumbles at any time, and we are all human so it is inevitable (look at Hillary), they will pounce relentlessly.