How do homophobic Democrats fit into a 2016 campaign?

[Prism]

In 2008, 2012, and beyond, we were taught that gay rights were just not the conversation to have at the time. From 2008-12, LGBT individuals were attacked for being critical of President Obama. Of course, with gargantuan hindsight, it turns out the LGBT community was right, the Establishment was wrong.

Now that the Supreme Court has relieved us all of that equality battle on marriage, where does that leave Democrats in 2016?

How do LGBT rights fit into a Sanders/Clinton campaign? Does housing and employment discrimination still matter to them? How do the candidates address LGBT poverty? I've met with and worked with many LGBT youth who have been rendered homeless by discrimination. How will the candidates help them?

If you were absolutely dead, fucking wrong, 2008-2012, why should I believe a word you say about my community?

Questions.

[msongs]

1. you have never changed your mind then? results matter, motives not so much nt

[sabrina 1]

18. There are some things that people should not have to ever change their minds on. Civil Rights,

equality for all people, not just Americans btw, I always feel obliged to add that as we have a tendency to think we are the only people on the planet sometimes, is something Democrats at least, should view as something they would be willing to fight for.

Sadly not all Democrats as we saw in 2008 and as late as 2013 wrt to Clinton eg, when it was safe to do so, support equality for all people.

[Prism]

2. Shockingly, no

I never changed my mind on whether or not LGBT homeless youth were an issue.

Why, did you?

[Zorra]

3. I have maximum trust in Bernie Sanders, he'll do all the right things

for all minorities. His record allows me to have full confidence that he will work for social justice for everyone until he gets the job done.

Hillary...not so much.

[elleng]

4. I don't like the headline, but here's some info for you:

Is Marriage Equality Pioneer Martin O'Malley The Anti-Hillary Candidate for President?


The poet laureate of the American dream, Bruce Springsteen, once asked: ‘Is a dream a lie if it don’t come true, or is it something worse?’”

Speaking of what it will take to rebuild that American dream, he said: “All of us are included. Women and men, black people and white people, native Americans, Irish-Amercans, Asian-Amercans, Latino-Amercans, Jewish, Christian and Muslim-Amercans, young and old, rich and poor, workers and business owners, gay, lesbian and transgender and straight Americans, all of us are needed.”'

http://www.advocate.com/politics/2015/05/30/marriage-equality-pioneer-martin-omalley-anti-hillary-candidate-president

More: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1281

[Prism]

5. I really like O'Malley

And I really wish he were doing better in the polls.

I've staved off on declaring whether I was for O'Malley or Sanders because I wanted to see the debates, but I feel like I'm just going to end up Sanders at this point ;/

[elleng]

8. There really is no need to 'declare' now or any time,

and to watch polls is foolish imo.

I'm glad you like O'Malley, Prism.

P.S. sorry there wasn't more intelligent discussion on your post earlier, and I guess I was kind of surprised about the tenor of the discussion you heard. Wanted to suggest you mention O'Malley in the bar, but if they didn't know Sanders, what's the chance???

[kenfrequed]

33. Personally,

I would rather they choose one or the other and switch back and forth.

[demwing]

27. Like O'Malley as well

Last edited Fri Oct 23, 2015, 08:50 AM - Edit history (1)

He says the right things, and looks "Presidential" - in the same way Romney did (stereotypically- tall, handsome, squared away, etc...).

BUT - He's got an odd way of speaking that rubs me wrong...he pauses at odd moments like he's waiting for the cue cards to catch up, but that's minor. He took money from the NRA, and that's significant, but perhaps there was an explanation on DU regarding that issue, and I missed it? (NOTE: FSogol responded below with an explanation and refutation, thanks DUers!)

I don't understand why his campaign never caught fire. Maybe it was because populists held out for Warren at first, and then Bernie came along and sucked all the air outta that room?

At this point O'Malley seems like he's running for someone's VP spot. He's young enough (52) to come back in 4 or 8 years if he's not successful in 2016. I wish him well...

[FSogol]

32. O'Malley never accepted money from the NRA. He has a 'F' rating with them. From huffpost:

But records filed with the Internal Revenue Service show that the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action, the group's lobbying arm, gave the Democratic Governors Association $40,000 in contributions in 2012 while O'Malley served as the association's chairman.

and

The NRA group donated to the governors association before O'Malley served as chair, which Morris said suggests the support had nothing to do with O'Malley's role in the organization. She noted that the group each year donates a significantly larger amount to the Republican Governors Association.

"Governor O'Malley has never solicited money from the NRA nor would they ever support him since they consider him 'the number one menace' to their cause," said Morris.

Whole article here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omalley-nra-donation_561e9db8e4b050c6c4a3dfec

[demwing]

34. I knew there had to be an explanation!

Thanks for providing the facts

[FSogol]

35. Anytime. I like facts!

[dsc]

6. actually Hillary said she would press for the equality act as one of the first things in her

Presidency.

[Prism]

7. She says a lot of things

Why should I believe her?

Genuinely, I'm asking you, why, based on her history, should I take this at face value?

[dsc]

9. because she was the first Obama department member

to implement spousal privileges in her department, because she was part of the adminstration which ended employment discrimination against gays in every department save the uniformed military (where they tried but got stymied by Congress).

[Prism]

10. And she can deal with Congress how?

It's one thing to take a unilateral, fairly safe action. It's another to expend actual political capital as an executive in a Congressional fight. Given she's always lagging behind, why should I feel she will be forward on these things?

[dsc]

11. No she isn't always lagging behind

let me repeat in caps since you apparently didn't bother to read what I wrote. SHE WAS THE FIRST OBAMA CABINET MEMBER TO EXTEND SPOUSAL BENEFITS TO HER EMPLOYEES. That is FIRST, as in BEFORE ANYONE ELSE. That is the OPPOSITE of lagging behind people. Now that said, probably the equality act won't pass a Republican House. She can build, and I think would build, on the Obama executive order in that regard and would also be way more likely to keep personel at the EEOC who would continue their progress on using sex discrimination law to include gays than any GOP candidate would. Frankly, Bernie, who is her only non Republican opponent who is polling above single digits has literally no history at all of leading on this issue. Yes, he cast votes that are pleasing, but he didn't get such a law passed in the city he was mayor of (Vermont passed one while he was still mayor). He didn't cospounser ENDA in the House or Senate. So I highly doubt he would be spending a whole bunch of political capital on this. He has no history of having done so in Vermont. If we were to get a Democratic House during her Presidency, which I admit isn't exactly likely, I think she would be way more likely to spend some of the political capital on bills banning discrimination against gays than Bernie would. If O'Malley were above single digits, then he would be the most likely of the three of them to do so but apparently no one thinks he should be President.

[Prism]

12. And these are easy moves

Seriously. The entire Democratic Party practically got on board with the LGBT community before she did.

I want to see the unsafe move, and I want to see why she'll do it. Convince me.

[dsc]

14. trying to let gays serve openly was the safe move

really? were you in a coma in 1993?

[pinebox]

28. You may want to look at this

Hillary didn't come out in support of gay marriage until 2013 and politifact has given her a flip-flop rating on the issue http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/17/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-change-position-same-sex-marriage/

You say;

Frankly, Bernie, who is her only non Republican opponent who is polling above single digits has literally no history at all of leading on this issue.

However, politifact gives Chuck Todd's statements of "Bernie Sanders was 'there' on same-sex marriage 20 years ago" a rating of true.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/29/chuck-todd/nbcs-chuck-todd-bernie-sanders-there-same-sex-marr/

Pretty interesting stuff.

[dsc]

30. politifact is bad at it's job

I will concede she did flip flop on marriage equality as did all five running in our primary. Bernie opposed marriage equality in Vermont in 2006 when he ran for Senate, taking the exact, precise, same position as his GOP opponent and Hillary. Politifact didn't mention it in its piece on Sanders.

[pinebox]

36. Politifact is fine

Sorry but the facts are the facts.
Sanders was LONG out in front on gay rights compared to Hillary.
Do they both support them? Yup and that's a beautiful thing!

[dsc]

37. Here are several links about Politifact being bad at its job

http://attwiw.com/2015/09/23/heroic-politifact-fact-checker-fails-to-check-his-own-facts/

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/politifact-finds-its-pants-fire

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/25/1058317/-In-continuing-war-on-its-own-credibility-PolitiFact-calls-accurate-Obama-jobs-statement-half-true

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/the-maddow-politifact-clash/2012/02/23/gIQAvUOlVR_blog.html

The last link is a summary of Maddow's many complaints about Politifact. They are, bluntly, often bad at their job. In the specific instance we are talking about, to claim Bernie has been there for 20 years on marriage equality when Bernie has zero, count them zero public statements in favor of marriage equality before 2009 and opposed it outright in 2006 is being bad at its job. They tend to be way easier on journalists than politicians which is one reason this fact check was handled the way it was. Remember this was actually a fact check of Chuck Todd, not Bernie Sanders.

[beam me up scottie]

38. Quote where Bernie opposed same sex marriage in Vermont in 2006?

Tia!

[dsc]

39. I have given you the video where he said that

and an interview where he also said that. I refuse to give links a second time.

[beam me up scottie]

40. No you keep saying it exists but you haven't posted it. Please post the exact quote. Thanks!

Was it this one?:

I was a strong supporter of civil unions, I believe that. I voted against the DOMA bill, I believe that the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts or any other the state because I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue.

[Chitown Kev]

13. see, I knew it

flogging those damn benefits that Hillary granted.

[dsc]

15. she most certainly did grant benefits

to the spouses of state department employees in 2009 and before any other department did so.

Here is the link that backs me up on this.

http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/obama-administration-policy-legislative-and-other-advancements-on-behalf-of

In June 2009, the State Department extended numerous benefits to the partners of Foreign Service officers, including diplomatic passports, access to overseas medical and training facilities, inclusion in housing allocations, and access to emergency evacuation.*

[Chitown Kev]

16. and the Hillary fanboys on the gay blogs

spoke in tongues when she did it, too.

It's a data point, from my POV. Nothing more, nothing less

[dsc]

26. so let me get this straight

First you claim it didn't happen but once I prove it it doesn't matter all righty then

[Beausoir]

17. Obama proudly had Rick Warren give the blessing at his Inauguration.

Obama has ALWAYS believed that you can pray away the gay.

[Chitown Kev]

20. Obama endorsed marriage equality

long before Bernie Sanders, in fact.

[beam me up scottie]

22. President Obama did not endorse marriage equality before Bernie.

Bernie voted against DOMA in 1996, Obama didn't come around on same sex marriage until sometime after 2011:

Evolve: Obama gay marriage quotes

“I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian — for me — for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God’s in the mix.” - April 17, 2008, while running for president, defining marriage at the Saddleback Presidential Forum.

“I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that’s not what America’s about.” - Nov. 2, 2008, while running for president, in an interview with MTV.

“I have been to this point unwilling to sign on to same-sex marriage primarily because of my understandings of the traditional definitions of marriage. But I also think you’re right that attitudes evolve, including mine.” - Oct. 27, 2010, as president, in an interview with a group of liberal bloggers.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76109_Page2.html#ixzz3m7JblnGe

Senators to Obama: Time to Evolve

Although White House press secretary Jay Carney said earlier this week that he does not anticipate any revelatory statement from President Barack Obama on his gay marriage position when he takes the stage at an LGBT fund-raiser in New York this evening, a group of Democratic senators is now urging the president to support marriage equality.

This week The Advocate reached out to U.S. senators who have previously stated their support for marriage equality and asked whether the president should now do the same. Not all responded, and some who did reiterated their own support for equal rights while sidestepping the question of whether President Obama should follow their lead.

But among the unequivocal statements in response were those from several original sponsors of pending LGBT equality legislation. Their bottom line, to borrow from a Twitter hashtag gaining momentum: Evolve already.

“President Obama has taken important steps to help the LGBT community, and I urge him to join me and millions of other Americans in supporting equal marriage rights for same-sex couples,” said Sen. Al Franken of Minnesota, sponsor of the Student Non-Discrimination Act.

Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon, lead sponsor of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, said, “I support marriage equality — this is an issue of fundamental fairness. I hope that President Obama will endorse that view and voice his support for equality for all.”

Franken and Merkley were joined in the sentiment by several colleagues, including independent senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who said he hoped his state’s own endorsement of marriage equality “will help shape the thinking of all our elected leaders, including the president;” Sen. Barbara Boxer of California, who said, “I hope the president and all Americans join in supporting marriage equality;” and Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, who noted “that support of the president would be very welcomed.”

http://www.advocate.com/news/daily-news/2011/06/23/senators-obama-time-evolve

On LGBT Rights, Bernie Leads and Hillary Follows

Of course, Clinton has since evolved on LGBT rights, as many have. That's wonderful. But the problem is, she only came out in support of marriage equality after it was not politically risky to do so. In fact, by 2013 - the year Clinton announced her full support for marriage equality - Democratic support for same-sex marriage was the norm, not the exception.

On such an important moral issue that affects my life and the lives of thousands of other Americans, making decisions in this manner is rather despicable. Additionally, Clinton's habit of doing what polls deem politically popular is the reason why so many voters find her inauthentic. Now, if Clinton were the only option for the Democratic presidential nomination, I would understand why we should support her despite these flaws.

But she isn't the only option.

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving Independent in the history of Congress, is also running for the nomination. And unlike Clinton, his record on LGBT rights is historically excellent.

Sanders voted against DOMA, one of the few members of Congress to do so, at a time when such a stance was not politically popular. Four years after DOMA passed, Sanders helped champion Vermont's decision in 2000 to become the first state to legalize same-sex civil unions. This set a national precedent for LGBT equality achieved via legislative means. In 2009, when Vermont became the first state to allow marriage equality through legislative action rather than a court ruling, Sanders expressed his support once again. Truly, Sanders has been a real leader on LGBT rights, even if this leadership isn't recognized in the way that Clinton's current support is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-novak/on-lgbt-rights-bernie-lea_b_7662682.html

We've already discussed this, remember?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=604433

[Chitown Kev]

31. He most certainly DID endorse

marriage equality when he ran for a state Senator.

He did an electric slide right on out of supporting it.

Just because Obama had McLurkin perform does not mean that he EVER believed in praying away the gay, though

http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2009/01/obama-backed-same-sex-marriage-in-1996-015306

[beam me up scottie]

41. He didn't really endorse it then, he was just pandering in order to get the lgbt vote.

In a 1996 questionnaire filled out for a Chicago gay and lesbian newspaper, then called Outlines, Obama came out clearly in favor of same-sex marriage, which he has opposed on the public record throughout his short career in national politics.

Lying in order to get their vote is even worse, imo.

Just because Obama had McLurkin perform does not mean that he EVER believed in praying away the gay, though.

That's not my argument.

[LanternWaste]

42. Seems almost as bad as consciously misinterpreting a thing simply to validate a bias.

"Lying in order to get their vote is even worse, imo..."

Seems almost as bad as consciously misinterpreting a thing simply to validate a bias, regardless of the rationalization soon to follow...

[beam me up scottie]

43. Like "consciously misinterpreting" a video and claiming Bernie opposed same sex marriage?

And repeating that claim over and over even after it's been debunked?

Is that what you mean?

[Chitown Kev]

47. careful, BMUS

I never claimed that Sanders opposed SSM (which Obama clearly did).

[beam me up scottie]

48. I wasn't referring to you, Chitown Kev.

You never made that claim but others have - repeatedly.

[Chitown Kev]

50. Just to get that out there...that's all

I didn't think that you were referring to me...we've actually gotten along pretty well in spite of our political differences...but sometimes, it's important to leave a trail to refer back to.

[beam me up scottie]

52. Yes we do.

I don't believe you hate Bernie or his supporters and you're willing to listen to people who disagree with you.

Credit where it's due and all that.

[Chitown Kev]

44. In Hyde Park, Chicago?

Not all that much of an LGBT vote there, though...a very liberal vote, yes, but not an LGBT vote...were he trying for a seat in Boystown, that would make sense but in Hyde Park?...he would have been ahead of most of the liberal there at the time.

[beam me up scottie]

49. It was a questionnaire to a "gay and lesbian newspaper".

If that's not pandering for votes I don't know what is.

[Chitown Kev]

51. But Hyde Park is the center

of a very liberal academic community that does have more LGBTs than many other communities but it's not as if it were Boystown or Andersonville or Rogers Park...it's probably fair to say that Obama may have been pandering for money from those communities to support his state Senate bid but not votes.

[beam me up scottie]

53. That could very well be.

It's your area so I'll defer to your knowledge of the people who live there.

Either way he obviously didn't believe what he wrote considering how adamant he was in his later opposition to same sex marriage.

Unlike Hillary I think Obama changed his mind because he listened and realised he was wrong, not because of public opinion.

[LostOne4Ever]

24. Sanders was one of the politicians advocating that Obama change his opinion on the issue

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/rachelwitkin/bernie_sanders_is_one_of_the_few_politicians_who_s_always_supported_gay_marriage

He voted against DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act of 1996 that banned the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages, and, way back in 1972 he argued that there shouldn’t be any laws dictating sexual behavior, as Lopez pointed out.

Senator Sanders even said in 2011 that he hoped President Obama would “evolve” on his opposition to same-sex marriage, telling The Advocate that he wanted Vermont’s support to "help shape the thinking of all our elected leaders, including the president.”

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/recent-business/a-major-milestone-on-gay-marriage

President Obama on Wednesday publicly endorsed gay marriage. "I applaud the president's historic announcement and his commitment to equal rights for all Americans," said Sen. Bernie Sanders. "I am proud to represent the first state in the country to allow civil unions and the first state where the Legislature allowed same-sex marriage without a court order. I am glad that the president is now on board."

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-on-gay-marriage-time-for-supreme-court-to-catch-up-to-the-american-people

In Vermont, Sanders supported the state’s 2000 civil unions law and the 2009 law legalizing gay marriage.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/supreme-court-victories-for-gay-marriage

Sanders in 1996 was one of only 67 House members who voted against the so-called Defense of Marriage Act, which denied federal benefits to gay spouses. He is a cosponsor of Senate legislation to repeal the law and he joined other members of Congress in a friend-of-the-court brief urging justices to void the discriminatory statute.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Not Gay Marriage but Sanders standing up for LGBTQ soliders in 1995.

Here he is on gay rights in the 1970's.



[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]So assuming you are referring to Obama's statement in 1996, before Obama turned against gay marriage two years later until 2013....that was the same year as the DOMA vote, so there was no long before.

Given the Letter, he beat Obama to it by decades. But you know all this. You have seen similar links time and time again.

Now we can play this game of "Sanders did not say those words exactly", and whether "Obama was lying in 2008"...or we can be honest.

Obama and Sanders have both always supported Gay Marriage. Bernie being older just got a head start on him. That is all there is to it.[/font]

[Chitown Kev]

46. But gays didn't even support gay marriage in the 1970's

they were against it, in anything...but still...

Obama and Sanders have both always supported Gay Marriage. Bernie being older just got a head start on him. That is all there is to it.

I think this is a fair statement.

I think that Obama also having a much larger and more diverse electorate to deal with had a lot to do with it too.

[Fearless]

19. I trust the one that supported us when it was hard to do so.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Depends.

There a variety of homophobes and levels of homophobia in the democratic party and its constituents. Most people only consider explicit homophobia (name-calling, physical abuse, and blatant civil rights violations) to be "real" homophobia. Of course, you and I, and other GLBT people and our true allies, know homophobia comes in degrees. There are those who think are struggle is a "struggle", with the quotes, indicating it isn't a real movement, nor is it really important in the scheme of social justice. There are those who think our struggle is a joke and gloms onto the movements of "real" minorities. There are those who think "we already have rights" it is just how we "choose to be so open" which is our "real" problem. There are those who think GLBT people are of a singular mind and therefore, anyone one who is gay and doesn't follow the preset, almost always a heterosexist, viewpoint, then we aren't "real GLBT" or we are "traitors" to be mocked with homophobic slurs, which magically become "un"-homophobic when said about an "enemy".

So where do they fit in? It depends on which ones you are asking about in regards to their fit. The blatant ones are usually ferreted out. The ones who appear to be "allies", but really aren't, they are the ones we have to tolerate, as we have always done, and continue to expose them, their bigotries and biases, and continue to stand up for what is right and demand our equality.

[mmonk]

23. Unfortunately for too many years, people were willing

to sweep it all under a rug for political expedience and elections. However, by only addressing those injustices will it go away.

[justiceischeap]

25. The plain truth of the matter is this

Neither candidate will do anything about LGBT rights unless pushed to do so. HRC has made claims she will move forward with equality legislation, I've not heard Sanders say much of anything on the topic. I've heard Bernie talk about Wall St., the 1% and the Middle Class but I haven't heard much from him on specific issues related to the LGBT community (I'm not saying he hasn't said anything, just that I personally have not seen anything).

That said, if a Democratic candidate doesn't win the White House next time, we're screwed (the LGBT community and Dems in general) because I can't see some of the Supreme Court justices making it another 4 years (RBG is getting up there). If the USSC gets any more unbalanced, I can see cases coming up that take away the small gains the LGBT community has made so far (for example some Christian suing over their religious freedom to not marry gays--i.e. Kim Davis--and a Republican gets to appoint a Justice...I can see a ruling that would put marriage equality in jeopardy but I'm paranoid in that way). A Republican would immediately do away with any of the Executive Orders Pres. Obama has signed. I could see a Republican SoS rescinding benefits to State Dept. employees.

I'm one of those pesky "I'm voting for whomever gets nominated" people but putting aside who a favorite candidate may be, we desperately need to win the White House if for nothing other than securing the USSC because the decisions made there will often outlast the President that nominated them by years.

[Chitown Kev]

45. +10

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. I favored marriage equality since the early 80s

When I was a young man my best friend was a competitive bodybuilder who happened to be bisexual. He liked biological women, trans women, cross dressers, and some guys. Daytona Beach was kind of a small town back then and it's hard to miss a 5'9" guy who weighed 215 pounds, has a 51 inch chest, a twenty eight inch waist, twenty six inch thighs, twenty inch arms, shaves his body, and wears a Speedo on the beach. Some of my other friends and casual acquaintances would suggest I was gay because he was my friend. I couldn't give a shit. One girl asked me what I thought and I said "whatever floats your boat." I believe that now and I believed it then. We used to go out clubbing together...If we weren't successful at a straight bar I would go home and he would go to a gay bar. The guy was also a "babe magnet" and to a young and shallow[/i ]guy that's pretty cool.

I also got to meet a young Arnold and Boyer Coe through him...

What does that do with anything?

I am not going to cast aspersions on folks whose life experiences differed from mine and it took them longer to land in the right place and I am not going to use their past positions as a cudgel.