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2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Advocate: President Hillary Clinton would compromise on civil rights if necessary
Last edited Sat Oct 24, 2015, 04:07 PM - Edit history (2)
Hillary Clinton Supports Her Husband's 'Defensive Action' as PresidentLucas Grindley
The Advocate
When asked directly whether she differs from her husband Bill Clinton — who is responsible for legislation that stopped same-sex couples from marrying and banned LGBT people from open service in the military — Hillary Clinton characterized them as necessary steps.
"I’m not in any way excusing them. I’m explaining them," she said.
Clinton described the Defense of Marriage Act, which banned the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages, as a way of stopping a larger effort she said was underway to pass an amendment to the Constitution that would have banned same-sex marriage. Clinton called DOMA "a line that was drawn that was to prevent going further."
To be clear, though, neither she or her husband publicly supported full marriage equality at the time. Both favor it now.
Clinton's opponent in the Democratic primary for president, Bernie Sanders, was in Congress when the Clinton administration passed DOMA. But he voted against it.
Sanders also came out for marriage equality long before Clinton. And he voted against "don't ask, don't tell" back in 1993.
The bottomline answer to Maddow's question — of whether Hillary Clinton would approach civil rights in the same way as Bill Clinton did as president — appears to be, yes, President Hillary Clinton would compromise on civil rights if necessary.
Clinton expects that as president she will, like her husband, have to make "the least bad choice."
"I’m not in any way excusing them. I’m explaining them," she said.
Clinton described the Defense of Marriage Act, which banned the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages, as a way of stopping a larger effort she said was underway to pass an amendment to the Constitution that would have banned same-sex marriage. Clinton called DOMA "a line that was drawn that was to prevent going further."
To be clear, though, neither she or her husband publicly supported full marriage equality at the time. Both favor it now.
Clinton's opponent in the Democratic primary for president, Bernie Sanders, was in Congress when the Clinton administration passed DOMA. But he voted against it.
Sanders also came out for marriage equality long before Clinton. And he voted against "don't ask, don't tell" back in 1993.
The bottomline answer to Maddow's question — of whether Hillary Clinton would approach civil rights in the same way as Bill Clinton did as president — appears to be, yes, President Hillary Clinton would compromise on civil rights if necessary.
Clinton expects that as president she will, like her husband, have to make "the least bad choice."
Here's more from an NPR interview in 2014:
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross back with Hillary Clinton. Her new memoir "Hard Choices" is about her four years as secretary of state during President Obama's first term. When we left off, we were talking about her efforts to bring LGBT rights into the international community's framework of human rights. She also made it easier for Americans to change their gender on their passports. Were there positions you believed in as senator but you couldn't publicly support because you felt that it wasn't time yet? That the positions would have been too unpopular? That the public wasn't ready in regards to LGBT rights? And, you know, I often think that there are politicians who, you know, in their heart really support it but don't publicly support it.
CLINTON: Well, I was fully on board with ending discrimination in the workplace on behalf of the LGBT community. I did not support gay marriage when I was in the Senate or running for president, as you know, and as President Obama and others held the same position. But it, for me, became an opportunity to do what I could as secretary of state to make the workplace fairer - something I had always supported and spoke out about. And then when I was out of the secretary of state position and once again free to comment on domestic matters, I very shortly came out in favor of fully equality, including gay marriage.
GROSS: So what's it like when you're in office and you have to do all these political calculations to not be able to support something like gay marriage that you actually believe in? And you obviously feel very committed to human rights and you obviously put gay rights as part of human rights, but in doing the calculus you decided you couldn't support it - correct me if I'm reading it wrong.
CLINTON: Well, I think you're reading it very wrong. I think that, as I said, just as the president has said, you know, just because you're a politician, doesn't mean you're not a thinking human being. And you gather information. You think through positions. You're not 100 percent set - thank goodness - you're constantly reevaluating where you stand. That was true for me. We talked earlier about Iraq, for goodness sakes. So, for me, marriage had always been a matter left to the states. And in many of the conversations that I and my colleagues and supporters had, I fully endorse the efforts by activists who work state-by-state and in fact that is what is working. And I think that, you know, being in the position that I was in the Senate - fighting employment discrimination, which we still have some ways to go - was appropriate at that time.
As secretary of state, I was out of domestic politics and I was certainly doing all I could on the international scene to raise the importance of the human rights of the LGBT community. And then leaving that position, I was able to, you know, very quickly announce that I was fully in support of gay marriage and that it is now continuing to proceed state-by-state.
And I am very, very hopeful that we will make progress and see even, you know, more change and acceptance. One of my big problems right now is that too many people believe they have a direct line to the divine and they never want to change their mind about anything. They're never open to new information and they like to operate in an evidence-free zone. And I think it's good if people continue to change.
GROSS: So you mentioned that you believe in state-by-state for gay marriage, but it's the Supreme Court, too. The Supreme Court struck down part of DOMA - the Defense of Marriage Act, which prevented the federal government from recognizing gay marriage. That part is now struck down. And DOMA was actually signed by your husband when he was president. In spite of the fact that he signed it, were you glad at this point that the Supreme Court struck some of it down?
CLINTON: Of course. And, you know, again, let's - we are living at a time when this extraordinary change is occurring and I'm proud of our country. I'm proud of the people who had been on the frontlines of advocacy, but in 1993, that was not the case and there was a very concerted effort in the Congress to, you know, make it even more difficult and greater discrimination. And what DOMA did is at least allow the states to act. It wasn't going yet to be recognized by the federal government, but at the state level there was the opportunity. And my husband, you know, was the first to say that, you know, the political circumstances, the threats that were trying to be alleviated by the passage of DOMA thankfully were no longer so preeminent and we could keep moving forward, and that's what we're doing.
GROSS: So just to clarify - just one more question on this - would you say your view evolved since the '90s or that the American public evolved allowing you to state your real view?
CLINTON: I think I'm an American. (Laughing) And I think we have all evolved and it's been one of the fastest most sweeping transformations.
GROSS: No, I understand, but a lot of people already believed in it back the '90s. A lot of people already supported gay marriage.
CLINTON: But not - to be fair, Terry, not that many. Yes, were there activists who were ahead of their time? Well, that was true in every human rights and civil rights movement, but the vast majority of Americans were just waking up to this issue and beginning to, you know, think about it and grasp it for the first time. And, you know, think about their neighbor down the street who deserved to have the same rights as they did or their son or their daughter. It has been an extraordinarily fast - by historic terms - social, political and legal transformation. And we ought to celebrate that instead of plowing old ground, where in fact a lot of people, the vast majority of people, have been moving forward - maybe slowly, maybe tentatively, maybe not as quickly and extensively as many would have hoped, but nevertheless we are at a point now where equality, including marriage equality, in our country, is solidly established. Although there will be places.
GROSS: I - I...
CLINTON: Texas, just to name one, where that is still going to be an ongoing struggle.
GROSS: I'm pretty sure you didn't answer my question about whether you evolved or it was the American public that changed (Laughing).
CLINTON: I said I'm an American, so of we all evolved. And I think that that's a fair, you know, that's a fair conclusion.
GROSS: So you're saying your opinion on gay marriage changed as opposed to you - you just felt it was comfortable...
CLINTON: You know, somebody is always first, Terry. Somebody's always out front and thank goodness they are. But that doesn't mean that those who joined later in being publicly supportive or even privately accepting that there needs to be change are any less committed. You could not be having the sweep of marriage equality across our country if nobody changed their mind. And thank goodness so many of us have.
GROSS: So that's one for you changed your mind? (Laughing).
CLINTON: You know, I really - I have to say, I think you are very persistent, but you are playing with my words and playing with what is such an important issue.
GROSS: I am just trying to clarify so I can understand.
CLINTON: No, I don't think you are trying to clarify. I think you're trying to say that, you know, I used to be opposed and now I'm in favor and I did it for political reasons. And that's just flat wrong. So let me just state what I feel like you are implying and repudiate it. I have a strong record. I have a great commitment to this issue and I am proud of what I've done and the progress we're making.
GROSS: You know, I'm just saying - I'm sorry - I just want to clarify what I was saying - no, I was saying that you maybe really believed this all along, but - you know, believed in gay marriage all along, but felt for political reasons America wasn't ready yet and you couldn't say it. That's what I was thinking.
CLINTON: No. No, that is not true.
GROSS: OK.
CLINTON: I did not grow up even imagining gay marriage and I don't think you probably did either. This was an incredibly new and important idea that people on the front lines of the gay rights movement began to talk about and slowly but surely convinced others of the rightness of that position. And when I was ready to say what I said, I said it.
CLINTON: Well, I was fully on board with ending discrimination in the workplace on behalf of the LGBT community. I did not support gay marriage when I was in the Senate or running for president, as you know, and as President Obama and others held the same position. But it, for me, became an opportunity to do what I could as secretary of state to make the workplace fairer - something I had always supported and spoke out about. And then when I was out of the secretary of state position and once again free to comment on domestic matters, I very shortly came out in favor of fully equality, including gay marriage.
GROSS: So what's it like when you're in office and you have to do all these political calculations to not be able to support something like gay marriage that you actually believe in? And you obviously feel very committed to human rights and you obviously put gay rights as part of human rights, but in doing the calculus you decided you couldn't support it - correct me if I'm reading it wrong.
CLINTON: Well, I think you're reading it very wrong. I think that, as I said, just as the president has said, you know, just because you're a politician, doesn't mean you're not a thinking human being. And you gather information. You think through positions. You're not 100 percent set - thank goodness - you're constantly reevaluating where you stand. That was true for me. We talked earlier about Iraq, for goodness sakes. So, for me, marriage had always been a matter left to the states. And in many of the conversations that I and my colleagues and supporters had, I fully endorse the efforts by activists who work state-by-state and in fact that is what is working. And I think that, you know, being in the position that I was in the Senate - fighting employment discrimination, which we still have some ways to go - was appropriate at that time.
As secretary of state, I was out of domestic politics and I was certainly doing all I could on the international scene to raise the importance of the human rights of the LGBT community. And then leaving that position, I was able to, you know, very quickly announce that I was fully in support of gay marriage and that it is now continuing to proceed state-by-state.
And I am very, very hopeful that we will make progress and see even, you know, more change and acceptance. One of my big problems right now is that too many people believe they have a direct line to the divine and they never want to change their mind about anything. They're never open to new information and they like to operate in an evidence-free zone. And I think it's good if people continue to change.
GROSS: So you mentioned that you believe in state-by-state for gay marriage, but it's the Supreme Court, too. The Supreme Court struck down part of DOMA - the Defense of Marriage Act, which prevented the federal government from recognizing gay marriage. That part is now struck down. And DOMA was actually signed by your husband when he was president. In spite of the fact that he signed it, were you glad at this point that the Supreme Court struck some of it down?
CLINTON: Of course. And, you know, again, let's - we are living at a time when this extraordinary change is occurring and I'm proud of our country. I'm proud of the people who had been on the frontlines of advocacy, but in 1993, that was not the case and there was a very concerted effort in the Congress to, you know, make it even more difficult and greater discrimination. And what DOMA did is at least allow the states to act. It wasn't going yet to be recognized by the federal government, but at the state level there was the opportunity. And my husband, you know, was the first to say that, you know, the political circumstances, the threats that were trying to be alleviated by the passage of DOMA thankfully were no longer so preeminent and we could keep moving forward, and that's what we're doing.
GROSS: So just to clarify - just one more question on this - would you say your view evolved since the '90s or that the American public evolved allowing you to state your real view?
CLINTON: I think I'm an American. (Laughing) And I think we have all evolved and it's been one of the fastest most sweeping transformations.
GROSS: No, I understand, but a lot of people already believed in it back the '90s. A lot of people already supported gay marriage.
CLINTON: But not - to be fair, Terry, not that many. Yes, were there activists who were ahead of their time? Well, that was true in every human rights and civil rights movement, but the vast majority of Americans were just waking up to this issue and beginning to, you know, think about it and grasp it for the first time. And, you know, think about their neighbor down the street who deserved to have the same rights as they did or their son or their daughter. It has been an extraordinarily fast - by historic terms - social, political and legal transformation. And we ought to celebrate that instead of plowing old ground, where in fact a lot of people, the vast majority of people, have been moving forward - maybe slowly, maybe tentatively, maybe not as quickly and extensively as many would have hoped, but nevertheless we are at a point now where equality, including marriage equality, in our country, is solidly established. Although there will be places.
GROSS: I - I...
CLINTON: Texas, just to name one, where that is still going to be an ongoing struggle.
GROSS: I'm pretty sure you didn't answer my question about whether you evolved or it was the American public that changed (Laughing).
CLINTON: I said I'm an American, so of we all evolved. And I think that that's a fair, you know, that's a fair conclusion.
GROSS: So you're saying your opinion on gay marriage changed as opposed to you - you just felt it was comfortable...
CLINTON: You know, somebody is always first, Terry. Somebody's always out front and thank goodness they are. But that doesn't mean that those who joined later in being publicly supportive or even privately accepting that there needs to be change are any less committed. You could not be having the sweep of marriage equality across our country if nobody changed their mind. And thank goodness so many of us have.
GROSS: So that's one for you changed your mind? (Laughing).
CLINTON: You know, I really - I have to say, I think you are very persistent, but you are playing with my words and playing with what is such an important issue.
GROSS: I am just trying to clarify so I can understand.
CLINTON: No, I don't think you are trying to clarify. I think you're trying to say that, you know, I used to be opposed and now I'm in favor and I did it for political reasons. And that's just flat wrong. So let me just state what I feel like you are implying and repudiate it. I have a strong record. I have a great commitment to this issue and I am proud of what I've done and the progress we're making.
GROSS: You know, I'm just saying - I'm sorry - I just want to clarify what I was saying - no, I was saying that you maybe really believed this all along, but - you know, believed in gay marriage all along, but felt for political reasons America wasn't ready yet and you couldn't say it. That's what I was thinking.
CLINTON: No. No, that is not true.
GROSS: OK.
CLINTON: I did not grow up even imagining gay marriage and I don't think you probably did either. This was an incredibly new and important idea that people on the front lines of the gay rights movement began to talk about and slowly but surely convinced others of the rightness of that position. And when I was ready to say what I said, I said it.
To Mrs. Clinton's credit, in the NPR article, she's taking the position that she was wrong on marriage equality and eventually came around, which is fantastic. What I don't quite get is the positive spin on DOMA and making marriage equality a states rights issue. If she's comfortable saying she came around on marriage equality, I'm not sure why there's hemming and hawing trying to defend the legacy of DOMA.
Audio for NPR story here: http://www.npr.org/2014/06/12/321313477/hillary-clinton-the-fresh-air-interview
Video for MSNBC interview here: http://www.advocate.com/election/2015/10/23/hillary-clinton-supports-her-husbands-defensive-action-president
Related:
Clinton: ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell’ and DOMA Were ‘Defensive Actions’ To Stop Anti-LGBT Conservatives
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The Advocate: President Hillary Clinton would compromise on civil rights if necessary (Original Post)
portlander23
Oct 2015
OP
Who will roll back marriage equality? Neither Bernie nor HRC are interested in that
emulatorloo
Oct 2015
#2
riversedge
(70,047 posts)1. What a bunch of pure crap.
emulatorloo
(44,057 posts)2. Who will roll back marriage equality? Neither Bernie nor HRC are interested in that
Nor Martin O'Malley.
I do know quite a few presidential candidates who are quite interested though.
ismnotwasm
(41,956 posts)3. WTF?
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)4. What a pant load! Just like Faux News twisting words to make a case.
Let people watch the interview and let them make up their own minds. Don't post preconceive ideas.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/clinton-holds-out-hope-for-gop-cooperation-550873155511
I was watching that part of the interview thinking it would be twisted by Bernie folks.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)6. Clinton's made it very clear
She's all about "getting things done." All about "reaching across the aisle." All about "making compromises" and getting that "warm purple sauce."
I'm not sure her supporters quite understand that it's not the republicans who will be making those compromises and concessions.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)5. Hillary Clinton is part of the problem, NOT the solution...
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)7. Did this Dillweed even listen to the interview..................
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)8. have to make "the least bad choice."
That's life.
Sometimes everyone of us has to weigh the issues and make "the least bad choice".
It's not a perfect world.
artislife
(9,497 posts)9. She is who she is, she does what she does
Either you trust her or you sleep with one eye opened.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)10. Wow this kind of made up garbage
reeks of desperation.
Sad really.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)11. Will she call supporting gay marriage a "mistake" if she does.
Apparently, she was "mistaken" about DOMA before but has since "evolved".
Evolution has no direction.
Baitball Blogger
(46,676 posts)12. Thirdwayers require a tremendous amount of suspension of disbelief.
If anyone ever asks us how it was possible that a Democratic president could every approve of such undemocratic measures, our only reply would be: He wasn't a Democrat. He was a Thirdwayer.
Persondem
(1,936 posts)13. Opinion. Using a crystal ball. Not worth much. nt.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)14. I listened intently to that interview and glad you posted so I could read part of the transcript.
I lived through that and a whole lot more long before that. Have been an activist for decades for my community. What my soulmate and I thought at the time was that Bill should have had the guts to veto it and stand up for principle. Sure, the Repuke Congress would've passed it over the veto, BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME BILL, NOT A WORSE BILL THAT HILLARY CLAIMED BECAUSE IT WASN'T EVEN OUT THERE! Once again, playing fast and fancy-free. Have no doubts, I will vote for her if she is our candidate. Can I trust her to select Liberal candidates for SCOTUS? I do not honestly know. I would hope so, but again......
dsc
(52,147 posts)15. that author has a rather different take when it comes to GOP wives
portlander23
(2,078 posts)16. Good on Cindy McCain
"I am not my husband, and he’s not me," said a resolute Cindy McCain during our phone conversation.
On that point, she couldn't have been clearer. Mrs. McCain told me she believes marriage equality is absolutely inevitable. No matter what the Supreme Court says, public opinion will change throughout the United States. Polls show young people differ from her generation. And they can "open your eyes."
When Mrs. McCain receives the Hero Award tonight, it makes sense that the presenter is slated as Meghan McCain. In 2010, Mrs. McCain followed her daughter in posing for a No H8 portrait. That's the campaign of everyday folks and celebs who reacted in protest over Proposition 8's passage in California.
Most probably missed it, but Mrs. McCain was also cast in a Phoenix production of 8, the anti-Prop. 8 play written by Dustin Lance Black and performed by celebs all over the country. Before bowing out due to illness, Mrs. McCain was cast as one of the lesbian plaintiffs who challenges the law's constitutionality. That case is now before the Supreme Court.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)17. The fact that she was against it as of 2013 should be a red flag
She will likely either flip back, saying it's something she has to do as part of some compromise, or give something else away in order to save ssm. Civil rights should not be a bargaining chip, nor should they be subject to a referendum.
