But Bernie’s been consistent!!!!

[JTShroyer]

Yeah, consistently ineffective in Congress.

Sanders has spent 24 years in Congress, during which he sponsored 775 bills and cosponsored 5,392. A “whopping” 3 of those bills were signed into law.

Hillary Clinton spent 8 years in Congress but sponsored 713 bills, cosponsored 2,676, and saw 77 of them signed into law.

Just to reiterate: In one-third of the time Clinton sponsored nearly as many bills as Sanders, cosponsored nearly half as many bills, and saw 77 of those bills (compared to Sanders’ 3) signed into law.

Source

The Clintons were a net-positive for Americans in the 1990s and will be a net-positive for Americans in the 21st century. When the Clintons were in power, we had a surplus and incomes rose at every level (top, middle, bottom). We grew together as a nation. If there’s anything we’ve learned about the Clintons in the last 30 years, it’s that you want them fighting for you. Hillary’s plans and proposals are the most comprehensive and progressive of any candidate to date. Hillary and Bernie voted together 93% of the time. Stop the character assassination against Hillary’s record. Hillary and Bill have results from playing and winning the political game and were a net-positive for Americans.

Here is a prime example of words vs. results:

Hillary Clinton declared in her historic speech on the world stage, "Gay rights are Human rights." In this speech, Hillary outlines what she did for LGBTQ people around the world. Her work as Secretary of State has made it safer to be LGBTQ in a world of so much hate. Hillary worked with the Human Rights Campaign on a variety of issues as New York Senator and she was the first First Lady to march in a gay pride parade.

If you watch the speech, you will be caught up-to-date on Hillary's FULL history with the gay community. The President of the Human Rights Campaign has known Hillary since Arkansas ^.^

As a gay man, Hillary, you are my champion. At the end of the day, Hillary HAS done so much good for LGBTQ people by playing and winning the game of politics. Has Bernie done anything for the gay community that even comes close to what Hillary did for the gay community as Secretary of State? Words vs. Results.

PS: If you defended Barack Obama or Joe Biden when they evolved on gay marriage, you are a sexist hypocrite.

[MohRokTah]

1. But, but but!!! CORPORATIST!!! TURD WAY!!!!! TRIANGULATE!!!!

[JTShroyer]

2. Hillary did so well yesterday!!

Hillary helped create and pass the children's health insurance program, giving 8 million children health insurance. Hillary also fought for unions and a higher minimum wage as New York Senator [despite corporate contributions]. Hillary is smart enough to know it takes $$$ to beat $$$, though she and Bill have never forgotten their middle-class roots. Hillary and Bernie voted together in the Senate 93% of the time. Bernie has (virtually) no accomplishments. Hillary has always stood with women, the middle-class, children, the under-privileged -- the invisible. Stop the character assassination against Hillary. Haters have been hating since the 1990s. She is ready. Go Hillary Go! #teamCLINTON -- The Clintons were a net-positive for Americans.

[MohRokTah]

3. And Sanders comes off as an old man yelling at clouds with no accomplishments in the Congress.

Gotta love it.

[JTShroyer]

4. Such a newb.

LOL.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. My favorite story...

When HRC was SOS she got an appeal from a Saudi woman to stop the forced marriage of her 13 y o daughter... Hillary went to the Saudi Ambassador and told him to stop it or she would go public...It was stopped.

[beam me up scottie]

6. Nice try but no cigar: Legislatively, Bernie Sanders Accomplished More Than Hillary Clinton Ever Did

Bernie sponsored 3 and co-sponsored 203 - all of which were signed into law:

https://www.congress.gov/member/bernard-sanders/S000033?q=%7B"bill-status"%3A"law"%7D

Legislatively, Bernie Sanders Accomplished More Than Hillary Clinton Ever Did


Sanders has been very effective in looking after the most vulnerable sectors of his country's society, Alternet suggested, as he passed bills, “both big and small, that have reshaped American policy on key issues like poverty, the environment and health care,” the website added.

“As difficult as it may be to believe, a socialist from Vermont is one of its most accomplished members,” said the author of the Alternet article, Zaid Jilani.

Alternet reminded readers that between 1994 and 2006 Sanders crowned himself as the “amendment king” despite the fact that the most right-wing Republicans in a generation controlled the House of Representatives.

He proved to be more efficient and pro-active than right-wingers like Bob Barr and John Boehner, Jilani wrote.

The veteran senator from Vermont passed exclusively progressive amendments, which was particularly original in Congress. He pushed forward his objectives to reduce poverty, help the environment, by achieving bipartisan coalitions of Republicans who wanted to shrink government or hold it accountable, as well as progressives who wanted to use it to empower Americans.

Also, Sanders became the first lawmaker to ever achieve an audit of funds given out by the Federal Reserve, bringing transparency to over US$2 trillion of funds handed out by the secretive organization, Alternet added.

Alternet offered a long list of the major amendments Sanders has effectively pushed forward, including the February 1995 Corporate Crime Accountability amendment, as well as the Saving Money, for Colleges and Taxpayers in April 1998. This just to mention a few of the many efforts that translated into benefits, including protection measures for troops, for reduction of poverty, for affordable healthcare and many more.

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/33106-bernie-sanders-accomplished-more-than-hillary-clinton-ever-did

Bernie Sanders’ record of pushing through major reforms will surprise you

I'm a progressive, but I’m a progressive who likes to get things done,” Hillary Clinton said at the first Democratic debate, in response to a question from moderator Anderson Cooper about whether she defines herself as a moderate or a progressive.

The implication was that progressive Bernie Sanders is too far to the left to accomplish anything—all of his ideas are pie-in-the-sky. You have to be able to find the bipartisan, “warm, purple space” as Clinton said earlier this year, to get anything done. Slate’s Jamelle Bouie was super-impressed by this rationale, saying Clinton has “skilled use of bureaucratic power.”

The problem with this narrative is that it is completely false. Not only has Sanders gotten a lot more things done than Clinton did in her own short legislative career, he’s actually one of the most effective members of Congress, passing bills, both big and small, that have reshaped American policy on key issues like poverty, the environment and health care.

The Amendment King

Congress is not known to be a progressive institution lately, to say the least. Over the past few decades, the House of Representatives was only controlled by the Democrats from 2007 to 2010, and a flood of corporate money has quieted the once-powerful progressive movement that passed legislation moving the country forward between the New Deal era and the Great Society. Yet, as difficult as it may be to believe, a socialist from Vermont is one of its most accomplished members.

...

As if things didn’t look bad enough, in 1994 the Republicans swept into power in the House of Representatives, dashing the hopes of many that Congress could do anything progressive whatsoever. But Sanders was not content with tilting at windmills. He didn’t want to just take a stand, he wanted to pass legislation that improved the United States of America. He found his vehicle in legislative amendments.

Amendments in the House of Representatives are often seen as secondary vehicles to legislation that individual members sponsor, but they are an important way to move resources and build bipartisan coalitions to change the direction of the law. Despite the fact that the most right-wing Republicans in a generation controlled the House of Representatives between 1994 and 2006, the member who passed the most amendments during that time was not a right-winger like Bob Barr or John Boehner. The amendment king was, instead, Bernie Sanders.

https://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/bernie-sanders-record-of-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you/

Your creative editing of the facts didn't work the first time you tried it, why would you think it would work now?

[PatrickforO]

8. Well done!

Bernie has been called the 'amendment king.' He's gotten A LOT done.

[beam me up scottie]

10. 206 bills signed into law AND the amendment king!

[azmom]

14. Why do they even try?

Love you BMUS.

[beam me up scottie]

17. Love you back, azmom!

[JTShroyer]

11. Wrong:

http://congress-bills.insidegov.com/d/a/Sen.-Bernard-%E2%80%9CBernie%E2%80%9D-Sanders-%5BI-.-VT%5D/Signed-Into-Law

[beam me up scottie]

12. Read the info at my link and tell me which part you disagree with. Tia!

[JTShroyer]

16. Read my link and tell me which part you disagree with!

3 bills signed into law!

[beam me up scottie]

20. 206, read them and weep. And edit your op if you want to salvage your credibility.

Status of Legislation: Became Law 206

[JTShroyer]

22. Why do you include amendments?

[beam me up scottie]

24. Read the damned info at the link: Bill Type/Status of Legislation/Became Law: 206

[JTShroyer]

29. teleSUR is a legitimate source?

Bernie Sanders is the AMENDMENT KING!

[beam me up scottie]

33. Another lie: https://www.congress.gov/member/bernard-sanders/S000033?q=%7B

Is your finger broken?

https://www.congress.gov/member/bernard-sanders/S000033?q=%7B

[JTShroyer]

57. http://congress-bills.insidegov.com/d/a/Sen.-Bernard-%E2%80%9CBernie%E2%80%9D-Sanders-%5BI-.-VT%5D/S

3 Bills.

Amendments don't count. LOL.

[beam me up scottie]

69. Another lie. 206 bills, all of them are BILLS, not amendments.

[JTShroyer]

77. 3

[beam me up scottie]

81. Nope, 206. If you count the bills Hillary cosponsored you have to count Bernie's as well.

I can tell you're new at this but just so you know, no one is coming to your rescue because you're wrong.

If you had been honest in your op other Hillary supporters would be all over this thread defending your claims, but they're not.

What does that tell you?

[JTShroyer]

89. Link:

http://congress-bills.insidegov.com/d/a/Sen.-Bernard-%E2%80%9CBernie%E2%80%9D-Sanders-%5BI-.-VT%5D/Signed-Into-Law

[beam me up scottie]

93. Go to my link, look at the 206 bills and tell me which ones don't count.

If you can't you have failed to prove your claim.

[JTShroyer]

96. Go to my link?

[beam me up scottie]

107. Bzzt. Fail. We're done here. :)

[JTShroyer]

112. I gave you an official government link

Thanks for playing!

[beam me up scottie]

119. I cited the info at the link, you chose to believe it doesn't exist.

Woo is always an automatic fail.

[JTShroyer]

124. Did you go to my official government link? 3 bills listed on the official government link.

[beam me up scottie]

128. 206 in all, just like Hillary if you count cosponsored bills the total is 206.

[JTShroyer]

130. "if you count cosponsored" -- WTF are you even doing?

[beam me up scottie]

135. From your op: Hillary Clinton ... sponsored 713 bills, COSPONSORED 2,676

Hillary Clinton spent 8 years in Congress but sponsored 713 bills, cosponsored 2,676, and saw 77 of them signed into law.

If you count Hillary's co-sponsored bills you have to count Bernie's.

That makes his total 206 bills signed into law.

[passiveporcupine]

162. Sorry kiddo, but your link is NOT...I repeat...NOT

an official government link. No wonder you refuse to accept what BMUS is linking to.

Maybe you should do a little more research on your link.

Here is an example of what I mean:

These Are the Least-Effective Members of Congress

Posted on August 6, 2015 by Alex Greer

http://members-of-congress.insidegov.com/stories/5278/least-effective-members-congress

An official government website would never publish anything like this.

Try this in google search and you might see what I mean...or not!

is insidegov.com a government website

Even on their own website, they show the source of their data, and this is just one page:

Source: Compiled from party websites and wikipedia.org. Demographic and poll data from gallup.com.

http://us-political-parties.insidegov.com/

And here is another hint...from wiki

The domain name gov is a sponsored top-level domain (sTLD) in the Domain Name System of the Internet. The name is derived from government, indicating its restricted use by government entities in the United States. The gov domain is administered by the General Services Administration (GSA), an independent agency of the United States federal government.

Official government websites are owned by the government and the domain is usually .gov. Like Whitehouse.gov.

Some U.S. federal agencies use fed.us rather than gov. The Department of Defense and its subsidiary organizations use the mil sTLD. Some U.S. governmental entities use other domains, such as com domains by the United States Postal Service (which uses both usps.gov and usps.com for the same website

so check your domain and if it isn't an official domain, you may want to check out your source before you call it "official".

[enid602]

116. Telesur

Their posts make a lot more since now that we know they're getting their facts from Telesur. Telesur employees must now sign loyalty oaths, you know.

[zappaman]

156. How would you know?

[zappaman]

161. Lol!

[rhett o rick]

113. So how does she stand today on fracking? The TPP? Her support of the Iraq War? The XL Pipeline?

Same-Sex marriage? Raising the cap for SS? Taxing the wealthy? Regulating the banks (Glass-Steagall)?

She accepts money for her foundation, her campaign and her personal account from the billionaires. It's insane to believe that they will not be repaid many times over. Quid pro quo.

[hifiguy]

118. There you go again, bmus.

You keep using documented facts. Will you never learn?

And they call us Sandernistas the ones wishing for unicorns.

[beam me up scottie]

125. The woo is strong in this one.

[hifiguy]

131. Some other things, too.

[beam me up scottie]

138. I'm trying to do this logically but they're resisting.

[hifiguy]

139. Logic bounces off of some people

the way bullets bounce off of Superman. And they're not all Repigs.

[NorthCarolina]

123. killjoy....the OP might have gained some traction with the braindead, at least until

you came along and posted factual stuff with real facts and everything. Whats the matter with you? You should know by now that Facts have no place in corporate conservative politics. They muddy the water and make the establishment look bad.

[beam me up scottie]

127. Lol! Don't hate me for my facts.

[Scootaloo]

133. So, what, a Hillaryclintonsupporter is making things up?

No! I can't believe it!

[beam me up scottie]

140. They're a member?

Well colour me shocked!

I wondered where this was coming from.

[Scootaloo]

142. I dunno. It's an apt descriptor, though.

[LWolf]

148. +1

[beam me up scottie]

151. I still won't crash positive threads about Hillary.

I would be perfectly happy to let the op have a happy happy joy joy Hillary thread if they didn't lie about Bernie.

sigh...

[99Forever]

7. Here's another HRC speech, why didn't you include it?

Bet it makes ya proud to support her, huh?

[JTShroyer]

13. Revisionist History to Hurt Hillary

Hillary never voted for a "war with Iraq" bill. She voted for an authorization bill that was meant to give the President ALL options -- war being a last resort.

Hillary gave Bush the authorization to go to war as a *last* resort. Bush went to war as a *first* resort. Bush also didn’t let the UN inspectors finish their job, something he said he would let them do. Why don’t Hillary-haters have a good grasp of history!?!?

Hillary already said she regrets giving Bush the authorization for the war. But she trusted him in the aftermath of 9/11, something most Americans regrettably did. Patriotism and trust was at an all-time high after 9/11/2001, and no one thought Bush would go into Iraq before the inspectors were finished.

Bernie supported funding the war, so he gets to claim he voted against the Iraq war, yet didn’t do anything to actually stop it.

Hillary Clinton on the Iraq War:

“Well, I have said repeatedly that if I had known then what I know now, I never would have voted to give the president authority.

It was a mistake to trust George Bush that he would do what he told all of us he would do. … Now, I do not think that that is a necessarily wrong judgment at the time.

What was wrong is the way this president misused the authority that some of us here gave him. And that has been a tragedy.”

[beam me up scottie]

15. Bernie "didn’t do anything to actually stop it." That is a lie:

[JTShroyer]

18. Wrong (yet again):

A pacifist would take great offense to Bernie funding a war he opposed.

[beam me up scottie]

21. Those crappy graphics look like they came from freerepublic, and they don't count.

He voted and spoke out against the war, stop making up shit.

[JTShroyer]

23. Bernie Sanders funded the Iraq War. Period.

Make up all the excuse you want. A pacifist would laugh at you.

[beam me up scottie]

27. Bernie voted and spoke out against the war your candidate wanted and voted for.

[JTShroyer]

34. And Bernie funded it.

But he gets to claim credit for voting against it. Ok.

[beam me up scottie]

37. Yes, he gets credit for voting and speaking out against it, thank you.

Just like Hillary gets credit for doing the opposite.

[JTShroyer]

45. I never denied he gets credit for voting against it!?!?

But the ultimate blame resides with the Bush Administration. And that's what you don't seem to get. Bush lied to Hillary. He lied to everyone. He said he would let the inspectors finish their job and he said he would go to war as a last resort.

When Bernie fans say Hillary supported the war in Iraq, that is a misrepresentation. She voted for an authorization bill that would allow the use of force as a last resort and only after the inspectors finished their job.

[beam me up scottie]

51. Your words: "yet didn’t do anything to actually stop it."

She voted for the war, he voted against it.

Listen to his speech, he knew what would happen.

[JTShroyer]

66. He knew the authorization would pass, though?

And then he voted to fund it.

[beam me up scottie]

68. How many dead because of the IWR that Hillary voted for?

That Bernie voted against, how many?

[JTShroyer]

72. 90 gun deaths a day. Thanks Bernie for allowing gun manufactures to be exempt from liability.

Bernie made gun manufactures exempt from liability. Hillary can't control that Bush lied to her. Bernie can control his anti-child positions on guns that he takes for political gain.

[beam me up scottie]

83. How did the PLCAA legislation kill people? And how many Iraqi kids died?

[JTShroyer]

95. It stripped citizens of their power to hold the gun manufactures accountable

How does that not help the gun lobby and guns become more powerful and dangerous in our nation?

[beam me up scottie]

99. How does that kill people? Explain it without repeating talking points.

And gun manufacturers are still liable for defective products and if they break the law, so that's a lie too.

[JTShroyer]

101. Just because you don't accept my answer:

Doesn't mean I haven't given you one.

Then Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders jumped into the 2016 presidential race, he was widely hailed as a far-left socialist who would appeal to the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. A liberal challenge to Hillary Clinton, said Politico. True progressives’ liberal alternative, trumpeted FiveThirtyEight. But before liberal Democrats flock to Sanders, they should remember that the Vermont senator stands firmly to Clinton’s right on one issue of overwhelming importance to the Democratic base: gun control. During his time in Congress, Sanders opposed several moderate gun control bills. He also supported the most odious NRA–backed law in recent memory—one that may block Sandy Hook families from winning a lawsuit against the manufacturer of the gun used to massacre their children.

Sanders, an economic populist and middle-class pugilist, doesn’t talk much about guns on the campaign trail. But his voting record paints the picture of a legislator who is both skeptical of gun control and invested in the interests of gun owners—and manufacturers. In 1993, then-Rep. Sanders voted against the Brady Act, which mandated federal background checks for gun purchasers and restricted felons’ access to firearms. As a senator, Sanders supported bills to allow firearms in checked bags on Amtrak trains and block funding to any foreign aid organization that registered or taxed Americans’ guns. Sanders is dubious that gun control could help prevent gun violence, telling one interviewer after Sandy Hook that “if you passed the strongest gun control legislation tomorrow, I don’t think it will have a profound effect on the tragedies we have seen.” (He has since endorsed some modest gun control measures.)

None of these views are particularly shocking for a Vermont representative: Sanders’ deep-blue state has both high gun ownership and incredibly lax gun laws, and it’s perfectly logical for the senator to support his constituents’ firearms enthusiasm. And a close friend of Sanders once said that the senator “thinks there’s an elitism in the anti-gun movement.”

The act’s primary purpose is as simple as it is cold-blooded.
But Sanders’ vote for a different kind of pro-gun bill is more puzzling—and profoundly disturbing. In 2005, a Republican-dominated Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA). This law doesn’t protect gun owners; it protects gun manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and importers. The PLCAA was the No. 1 legislative priority of the National Rifle Association for years, because it shields gun makers and dealers from most liability when their firearms are used criminally. It is one of the most noxious pieces of pro-gun legislation ever passed. And Bernie Sanders voted for it. (Sanders’ campaign has not replied to a request for comment.)

Because the PLCAA deals with tort law—not a topic of great interest for most Americans—it didn’t stir much outrage when first passed. But the act’s primary purpose is as simple as it is cold-blooded. Every state imposes liability on manufacturers who are negligent in their production and sale of products. If I crash my Prius because its accelerator malfunctions, I can sue Toyota for negligently manufacturing a faulty pedal. If my child dismembers himself with a blender at Sears, I can sue Sears for negligently leaving that blender within a child’s reach. If I get stabbed by a teenager with a switchblade, I might be able to sue the pawn shop owner who illegally sold a knife to a minor.

Before the PLCAA, most states imposed some form of tort liability on gun makers and sellers. If a gun manufacturer made an assault rifle that could slaughter dozens of people in a few seconds, for instance, one of its victims might sue the company for negligently making a gun that could foreseeably be used for mass murder. If a gun seller sold a gun to a customer without performing any kind of background check—and then the buyer opened fire on the subway—his victims might sue that seller for negligently providing a gun to a mentally unstable person. The standards in each state differed, but the bottom line remained the same: Victims of gun violence and their families could recover financially from the people and companies who negligently enabled gun violence.

The PLCAA changed all that. Remarkably, the act wiped out gun liability laws in all 50 states, rendering them invalid except for a handful of narrow exceptions. (So much for states’ rights.) Thanks to the law, victims of mass shootings are barred from suing the companies that produced a wartime weapon that no civilian could ever need. With few exceptions, victims cannot sue a gun seller for negligently providing a semiautomatic weapon to a lunatic who shoots them in a movie theater. Even if a jury decides a gun maker or seller should be liable, the PLCAA invalidates its verdict. The law tramples upon states’ rights, juries’ rights, and fundamental precepts of America’s civil justice system. And it received Bernie Sanders’ support—in both 2003 (when it was first introduced) and 2005 (when it finally passed).

Every few years, the families of mass shooting victims take gun makers to court for creating a weapon seemingly designed to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible. Every time, they run headfirst into the PLCAA. Right now, the families of Sandy Hook victims are searching for a loophole in the law, so they can sue Bushmaster for making the gun that sent 154 bullets through 20 children and six adults in 264 seconds. They will probably fail.

"If I crash my Prius because its accelerator malfunctions, I can sue Toyota for negligently manufacturing a faulty pedal. If my child dismembers himself with a blender at Sears, I can sue Sears for negligently leaving that blender within a child’s reach. More...

Several liberal congressional representatives have recently spoken out against the PLCAA, and if Democrats retake both houses of Congress, they may make repealing the law a priority. Hillary Clinton, who voted against the act as a senator, would almost certainly sign a repeal bill. Would a President Bernie Sanders? Until he says otherwise, we have every reason to believe the ostensible progressive hero would stand behind the vile legislation he championed just a decade ago.

SOURCE

[beam me up scottie]

103. You are not allowed to cut and paste entire articles, you've been told this before.

And how does the PLCAA kill people?

Use your own words or highlight the text.

[JTShroyer]

110. You aren't my boss and are acting like a bully by flooding my post with harassment:

But here is the obvious answer:

To see just how cruel the PLCAA is, consider its effect on one family's lawsuit against the online retailers who sold James Holmes the weapons he used to kill 12 people and injure 70 in Aurora, Colorado. The family sued Lucky Gunner for selling 4,300 rounds of ammunition to Holmes online without performing so much as a background check. These bullets were later fired off into the bodies of 82 people. The family accused Gunner of negligently entrusting Holmes with so much ammunition without looking into his mental condition. They lost. The PLCAA blocked their suit from even going to a jury.

Source: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/06/bernie_sanders_doubles_down_on_support_for_gun_sellers.html

[beam me up scottie]

114. It's a copyright violation to post the entire article.

And again, how does the PLCAA kill people?

If the dealer broke the law they can be prosecuted.

And Bernie explained why he voted for it, to keep gun dealers in Vermont who aren't breaking the law from being sued if their legally purchased guns and/or ammo is used illegally.

He has also said he wants to revisit the issue.

[think]

32. Did you want him to abandon our troops after Hillary got them sent there?

[SusanCalvin]

42. Exactly. nt

[artislife]

40. Hillary made vets

Bernie has helped vets.

[Ed Suspicious]

55. This!

[azmom]

60. [phone]

[beam me up scottie]

67. [phone]

[JTShroyer]

78. Hillary fought for healthcare for vets

But sure. Blame her for Bush's war that he lied to her about. LOL.

[artislife]

82. I do.

I do blame her.

I do hold her accountable.

I hold her accountable for all the other war hawk moves.

I hold her accountable for saying she would send brown kids back to Central America where most of them are running from for their lives.

I hold her to blame for her lack of caring for humanity in an equal manner.


This is why I don't want her to be the Democratic nominee.

[JTShroyer]

90. Then don't vote for her

I've accepted that Bush lied to her and our country. He is to blame. No one else.

We will have to agree to disagree.


Good luck, Bernie!

[Autumn]

91. Bernie funded the troops after Hillary's vote helped put them in harms way.

Trust a Hillary supporter to expect a caring compassionate decent man to leave our military men and women in a war of choice in Iraq with no resources, in harms way. Yeah, welcome to DU.

[azmom]

26. Are you a pacifist? If you support

Hillary, you are far from it.

[RandySF]

59. That's really not fair

Many Democrats voted yes to make sure our troops had the tools with which to keep safe.

[Beartracks]

163. This.

A vote to provide funding to troops already engaged in combat is not a negative.

=====================

[azmom]

19. LOL She was duped by Bush.

[JTShroyer]

25. Bernie created a country where 90 people die a day from gun violence.

[beam me up scottie]

28. How did he do that?

[JTShroyer]

31. Voting against the Brady Bill 5 times.

Supporting to give gun manufactures immunity.

But Bernie's allowed to flip-flop on guns without his integrity being questioned, right? Just like with Hillary?

[beam me up scottie]

35. And it passed anyway. How many people died because of the PLCAA?

How many died in the Iraq war?

[JTShroyer]

38. So glad PRESIDENT CLINTON signed the Brady Bill into law.

Thank You President Bill Clinton ^.^

[beam me up scottie]

43. So Bernie wasn't responsible for those deaths. Thank you for admitting it!

Now how many died in the Iraq war?

[JTShroyer]

49. Yes. Bernie was responsbile.

When did I say otherwise? He allowed the NRA to rule our country and his state. Sad

[beam me up scottie]

52. How? You just said the Brady Bill passed so he's not responsible.

How many dead in Iraq?

Or don't brown people matter to you?

[JTShroyer]

58. The Brady Bill still exists?

The Brady Bill existed when Sanders first took office?

[beam me up scottie]

65. You said Bill signed it into law, so his votes against it didn't kill anyone.

How many dead Iraqis and American soldiers?

[JTShroyer]

75. Bernie made gun manufactures exempt from liability and has consistently supported the NRA until now:

Hillary can't control that Bush lied to her. Bernie can control his anti-child positions on guns that he takes for political gain.

[beam me up scottie]

79. No he didn't that's another lie. And how many dead Iraqi children paid for her position?

Don't they count?

[JTShroyer]

85. More Americans have died from gun violence than in Iraq -- 30,000 a year -- thanks Bernie

for always fighting against the NRA!!

[beam me up scottie]

86. Another lie: Bernie consistently voted for assault weapon bans and background checks.

Last edited Mon Oct 26, 2015, 01:01 AM - Edit history (1)

Alternet: Bernie's Gun Control Critics Are Wrong—His Stance Has Been Consistent for Decades

Next, the 1990 debate turned to gun control. The moderator, who clearly was a Second Amendment absolutist, went after Bernie—to test his mettle after Smith’s about-face.

“Do you support additional restrictions on firearms? Do you support additional restrictive firearms legislation?” he asked. “Bernie Sanders, explain yourself, yes or no?”

“Yes,” he replied.

...

“I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.”

That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. It’s also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980s—before he was in Congress—which he reiterated to the moderator.

“I said that before the election,” he continued. “The Vermont sportspeople, as is their right, made their endorsement. The endorsed Peter Smith. They endorsed Paul Poirier. I lost that election by about three-and-one-half percentage points, a very close election. Was my failure to get that endorsement pivotal? It might have been. We don’t know. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. All I can say is I told the sportspeople of Vermont what I believe before the election and I am going to say it again.

“I do believe we need to ban certain types of assault weapons. I have taked to police chiefs. I have talked to the police officers out on the street. I have read some of the literature all over this country. Police chiefs, police officers are concerned about the types of weapons which are ending up in the hands of drug dealers and other criminals and our police oficers are getting outgunned.


http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernies-gun-control-critics-are-wrong-his-stance-has-been-consistent-decades

[beam me up scottie]

88. You don't care about the dead Iraqis and soldiers?

[JTShroyer]

92. Bernie has consistently been pro-gun throughout most of his career

He has supported pro-gun legislation and opposed anti-gun legislation. His entire career has helped the NRA, the gun lobby, and led to 30,000 American deaths a year due to gun violence.

I want someone who, like the Clintons, will fight against gun violence through measures such as the Brady Bill. Go Hillary Go!!

[beam me up scottie]

97. A lie: Bernie Sanders’ critics misfire: The Vermont senator’s gun record is better than it looks

Bernie Sanders’ critics misfire: The Vermont senator’s gun record is better than it looks [View all]

....However, the Nation and the other reports like it don’t shed real light on where Sanders is coming from. They don’t explain why he supports some gun controls but not others. Nor do they ask if there’s a consistency to Sanders’ positions and votes over the years? They simply suggest that Bernie’s position is muddled and makes a good target for Hillary.

Yet there is an explanation. It’s consistent and simpler than many pundits think. And it’s in Bernie’s own words dating back to the campaign where he was first elected to the U.S. House—in 1990—where he was endorsed by the NRA, even after Sanders told them that he would ban assault rifles. That year, Bernie faced Republican incumbent Peter Smith, who beat him by less than 4 percentage points in a three-way race two years before.

In that 1988 race, Bernie told Vermont sportsmen that he backed an assault weapons ban. Smith told the same sportsmen’s groups that he opposed it, but midway through his first term he changed his mind and co-sponsored an assault rifle ban—even bringing an AK-47 to his press conference. That about-face was seen as a betrayal and is the background to a June 1990 debate sponsored by the Vermont Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs.

I was at that debate with Smith and three other candidates—as the Sanders’ campaign press secretary—and recorded it. Bernie spoke at length three times and much of what he said is relevant today, and anticipates his congressional record on gun control ever since. Look at how Bernie describes what being a sportsperson is in a rural state, where he is quick to draw the line with weapons that threaten police and have no legitimate use in hunting—he previously was mayor of Vermont’s biggest city, and his record of being very clear with the gun lobby and rural people about where he stands. His approach, despite the Nation’s characterization, isn’t “open-minded.”

As you can see, Bernie—who moved to rural northeastern Vermont in the late 1960s—has an appreciation and feeling for where hunting and fishing fit into the lives of lower income rural people. He’s not a hunter or a fisherman. When he grew up in Brooklyn, he was a nerdy jock—being captivated by ideas and a high school miler who hoped for a track scholarship for college. But like many people who settled in Vermont for generations, he was drawn to its freer and greener pastures and respected its local culture.

“I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.”

That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. It’s also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980s—before he was in Congress—which he reiterated to the moderator.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/10/what_bernies_gun_control_critics_get_wrong_partner/

[JTShroyer]

102. Bernie Sanders -- Gun Nut:

Then Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders jumped into the 2016 presidential race, he was widely hailed as a far-left socialist who would appeal to the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. A liberal challenge to Hillary Clinton, said Politico. True progressives’ liberal alternative, trumpeted FiveThirtyEight. But before liberal Democrats flock to Sanders, they should remember that the Vermont senator stands firmly to Clinton’s right on one issue of overwhelming importance to the Democratic base: gun control. During his time in Congress, Sanders opposed several moderate gun control bills. He also supported the most odious NRA–backed law in recent memory—one that may block Sandy Hook families from winning a lawsuit against the manufacturer of the gun used to massacre their children.

Sanders, an economic populist and middle-class pugilist, doesn’t talk much about guns on the campaign trail. But his voting record paints the picture of a legislator who is both skeptical of gun control and invested in the interests of gun owners—and manufacturers. In 1993, then-Rep. Sanders voted against the Brady Act, which mandated federal background checks for gun purchasers and restricted felons’ access to firearms. As a senator, Sanders supported bills to allow firearms in checked bags on Amtrak trains and block funding to any foreign aid organization that registered or taxed Americans’ guns. Sanders is dubious that gun control could help prevent gun violence, telling one interviewer after Sandy Hook that “if you passed the strongest gun control legislation tomorrow, I don’t think it will have a profound effect on the tragedies we have seen.” (He has since endorsed some modest gun control measures.)

None of these views are particularly shocking for a Vermont representative: Sanders’ deep-blue state has both high gun ownership and incredibly lax gun laws, and it’s perfectly logical for the senator to support his constituents’ firearms enthusiasm. And a close friend of Sanders once said that the senator “thinks there’s an elitism in the anti-gun movement.”

The act’s primary purpose is as simple as it is cold-blooded.
But Sanders’ vote for a different kind of pro-gun bill is more puzzling—and profoundly disturbing. In 2005, a Republican-dominated Congress passed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA). This law doesn’t protect gun owners; it protects gun manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and importers. The PLCAA was the No. 1 legislative priority of the National Rifle Association for years, because it shields gun makers and dealers from most liability when their firearms are used criminally. It is one of the most noxious pieces of pro-gun legislation ever passed. And Bernie Sanders voted for it. (Sanders’ campaign has not replied to a request for comment.)

Because the PLCAA deals with tort law—not a topic of great interest for most Americans—it didn’t stir much outrage when first passed. But the act’s primary purpose is as simple as it is cold-blooded. Every state imposes liability on manufacturers who are negligent in their production and sale of products. If I crash my Prius because its accelerator malfunctions, I can sue Toyota for negligently manufacturing a faulty pedal. If my child dismembers himself with a blender at Sears, I can sue Sears for negligently leaving that blender within a child’s reach. If I get stabbed by a teenager with a switchblade, I might be able to sue the pawn shop owner who illegally sold a knife to a minor.

Before the PLCAA, most states imposed some form of tort liability on gun makers and sellers. If a gun manufacturer made an assault rifle that could slaughter dozens of people in a few seconds, for instance, one of its victims might sue the company for negligently making a gun that could foreseeably be used for mass murder. If a gun seller sold a gun to a customer without performing any kind of background check—and then the buyer opened fire on the subway—his victims might sue that seller for negligently providing a gun to a mentally unstable person. The standards in each state differed, but the bottom line remained the same: Victims of gun violence and their families could recover financially from the people and companies who negligently enabled gun violence.

The PLCAA changed all that. Remarkably, the act wiped out gun liability laws in all 50 states, rendering them invalid except for a handful of narrow exceptions. (So much for states’ rights.) Thanks to the law, victims of mass shootings are barred from suing the companies that produced a wartime weapon that no civilian could ever need. With few exceptions, victims cannot sue a gun seller for negligently providing a semiautomatic weapon to a lunatic who shoots them in a movie theater. Even if a jury decides a gun maker or seller should be liable, the PLCAA invalidates its verdict. The law tramples upon states’ rights, juries’ rights, and fundamental precepts of America’s civil justice system. And it received Bernie Sanders’ support—in both 2003 (when it was first introduced) and 2005 (when it finally passed).

Every few years, the families of mass shooting victims take gun makers to court for creating a weapon seemingly designed to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible. Every time, they run headfirst into the PLCAA. Right now, the families of Sandy Hook victims are searching for a loophole in the law, so they can sue Bushmaster for making the gun that sent 154 bullets through 20 children and six adults in 264 seconds. They will probably fail.

"If I crash my Prius because its accelerator malfunctions, I can sue Toyota for negligently manufacturing a faulty pedal. If my child dismembers himself with a blender at Sears, I can sue Sears for negligently leaving that blender within a child’s reach. More...

Several liberal congressional representatives have recently spoken out against the PLCAA, and if Democrats retake both houses of Congress, they may make repealing the law a priority. Hillary Clinton, who voted against the act as a senator, would almost certainly sign a repeal bill. Would a President Bernie Sanders? Until he says otherwise, we have every reason to believe the ostensible progressive hero would stand behind the vile legislation he championed just a decade ago.

SOURCE

30,000 a year, Bernie.

[beam me up scottie]

106. The author of the article is a moron, and again, stop posting the entire article.

Who's a gun nut?

gun nut

1. A person who takes a keen interest in firearms and ammunition, possibly including the study, peer discussion, ownership, bearing and use thereof - usually used playingly by oneself or by other firearms enthusiasts in this sense. Often associates with people with similar interests.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gun+nut

Clinton's Hunting History

WAUSAU, WIS. -- At a campaign stop this afternoon, Hillary Clinton's focus was on the economy and health care but some in the crowd had other things on their minds. Clinton was asked to discuss gun control which prompted Clinton to talk about her days holding a rifle in the cold, shallow waters in backwoods Arkansas.

"I've hunted. My father taught me how to hunt. I went duck hunting in Arkansas. I remember standing in that cold water, so cold, at first light. I was with a bunch of my friends, all men. The sun's up, the ducks are flying and they are playing a trick on me. They said, 'we're not going to shoot, you shoot.' They wanted to embarrass me. The pressure was on. So I shot, and I shot a banded duck and they were surprised as I was," Clinton said drawing laughter from the crowd.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clintons-hunting-history/

[JTShroyer]

117. I gave you an answer -- you call the article's author a "moron":

HAHAHAHA

To see just how cruel the PLCAA is, consider its effect on one family's lawsuit against the online retailers who sold James Holmes the weapons he used to kill 12 people and injure 70 in Aurora, Colorado. The family sued Lucky Gunner for selling 4,300 rounds of ammunition to Holmes online without performing so much as a background check. These bullets were later fired off into the bodies of 82 people. The family accused Gunner of negligently entrusting Holmes with so much ammunition without looking into his mental condition. They lost. The PLCAA blocked their suit from even going to a jury.

Source: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/06/bernie_sanders_doubles_down_on_support_for_gun_sellers.html

[beam me up scottie]

121. According to the definition, Hillary is more of a gun nut than Bernie:

Hillary Clinton goes bold on gun safety — but she sounded a different note in 2008


But Clinton hasn’t always been so forceful in her fight for gun control. As the Post highlights, Clinton has dramatically shifted her tone on gun control since the 2008 campaign. While Clinton touted her husband’s record record on gun control (former President Bill Clinton signed into the law an assault weapons ban that has since lapsed) she also heralded personal memories of learning to shoot with her father and defend gun ownership, saying, “there is not a contradiction between protecting Second Amendment rights” and the effort to reduce crime.

You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl,” Clinton said while campaigning ahead of the Indiana primary, where white working class Democrats propelled her to a narrow victory over then-Sen. Barack Obama. “You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. It’s part of culture. It’s part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because it’s an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter,” she continued, in a dig at Obama’s remark at a fundraiser that disenfranchised Americans often “cling” to cultural symbols like guns and religion.

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/10/hillary_clinton_goes_bold_on_gun_safety_but_she_sounded_a_different_note_in_2008/

So yeah, the author is a moron.

Bernie doesn't like guns, he doesn't own guns and he doesn't like to shoot animals with them.

Hillary does.

[JTShroyer]

126. Hillary has always been in favor of hunters and is CURRENTLY in favor of hunters. WTF?

Trying to bring up 2008 to make Obama people hate Hillary?

I see your manipulative strategy!

[beam me up scottie]

129. So she's a gun nut according to the definition?

I'm just wondering how you define it, do words mean what we want them to mean?

[JTShroyer]

132. When did Hillary vote against the Brady Bill 5 times or give immunity to the gun industry?

WTF? Her husband signed the Brady Bill into law!?!?

Hillary has always been in favor of hunters forming a counter-group to the NRA. In-fact, she's proposing that right now. Pay attention, please ^.^

[beam me up scottie]

136. Does she fit the definition of a "gun nut" or not?

You are the one who wants to use that term so if you're going to use it then she fits the definition.

See where I'm going with this?

Words have meaning and if we are to debate the issues we have to agree on them.

Personally I don't think either of them are gun nuts.

You can't dismiss the parts of a candidate's record that don't fit the meme, Bernie has been consistently pro-2A and pro-gun control.

[artislife]

44. Even Obama called Hillary Annie Oakley.nt

[okasha]

108. And how many people did Annie Oakley kill?

[artislife]

111. Hillary?

We would have to get the big calculator out on that. The wars she voted for while in congress and the strikes she backed as Sos.
You seem to be in her camp, you tell me how many.

[okasha]

134. Annie Oakly.

I thought the question was fairly clear.

By the way, do you hold George McGovern responsible for the Vietnam war?

[Armstead]

41. She voted to give Bush the power to go to war. Many people knew better.

Sanders and manyothers warned her and other Democrats not to trust Bush. sanders and millions of others were called naive by the "adults" like Clinton, who voted for it anyway.

As the critics warned, Iraq has become a kerosene-coated shitbomb. We had a major role in destabilizing the Middle East, and unleashing the hounds of hell over there.

All you need to know.

[99Forever]

47. Revisionist?

What the fuck? It's a goddamn video of HER giving the speech SHE fucking wrote.

Wow! Talk about cognitive dissonance. On steriods.

Bub bye, go directly to Ignored, do not pass Go.

[Scootaloo]

144. Yup, your post is indeed revisionist history

Remind me again, how did she vote on the Levin Amendment? You know, the one that would have forced war to be the last resort?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

9. And I notice you didn't include the MANY amendments Bernie got passed in his time,

since he worked more through amendments to other bills rather than directly through bills themselves. But hey, why let reality get in the way of your forced meme.

[JTShroyer]

36. Hillary's total doesn't include amendments?

[Aerows]

48. If they did

you would have included them. Since you didn't (and can't) we know the score.

But go ahead, prove me wrong. Please proceed.

[artislife]

50. Hillary's bills she put forward and passed.

S.3145 — 110th Congress (2007-2008) 
A bill to designate a portion of United States Route 20A, located in Orchard Park, New York, as the "Timothy J. Russert Highway". 

S.3613 — 109th Congress (2005-2006) 
A bill to designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 2951 New York Highway 43 in Averill Park, New York, as the "Major George Quamo Post Office Building". 

S.1241 — 108th Congress (2003-2004) 
Kate Mullany National Historic Site Act 



And our country was never the same...

[JTShroyer]

63. In addition to:

After Yale, Hillary worked for the Children's Defense Fund, the Arkansas Children's Hospital Legal Services, cofounded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, secured federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas's poorest areas as chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee, successfully reformed the Arkansas education system as chair of the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee while Bill was Governor, and became the first female partner of the Rose Law Firm.

As First Lady of the United States, Hillary increased research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health, helped to create the Office on Violence Against Women and the Campaign Against Teenage Pregnancy which reduced abortion rates by providing women with accurate information and contraception, in addition to highly significant achievements such as the Adoption and Safe Families Act, the Foster Care Independence Act, and the Children’s Health Insurance Program, which currently provides 8+ million children with health insurance.

Other accomplishments:

–Hillary has worked closely with the Human Rights Campaign on a variety of issues over the years. Hillary has correctly noted she was the first First Lady to march in a gay pride parade. As New York Senator, Hillary fought for stronger hate crime laws and anti-discrimination laws. As Secretary of State, Hillary enacted lifesaving policies and programs that saved LGBT people around the globe, historically declaring on the world stage: "Gay rights are human rights."

–Fighting and achieving the necessary healthcare for 9/11 first responders as New York Senator.

–Secretary of State: New START treaty with Russia, ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, promoting and protecting the rights of women and the LGBT community worldwide, our “pivot” to Asia strategy – visiting Burma for the first time in over 40 years, and improving the favorability of the U.S. by 20 points worldwide after the disastrous Bush Administration.

Hillary has always stood with women, the middle-class, children, the under-privileged – the invisible.

[artislife]

73. But she has cluster bombed the eff

out of brown women and children.

[artislife]

74. As a brown person

I find this kind of action on her part pretty much unforgivable.

[bravenak]

87. Have you looked into Bernie and the funding of weapons for Israel during the last Summer?

Check it out. Nobody has clean hand on brown folks. Go look at him yell at constituents who complained about him funding Netanyahu's War Machine. Palestinians are brown. Why did he not say 'No Bibi, I will not vote to fund more bullets and bombs to use on Gaza?"
Pleae y'all. Stop making me pick him apart. Acting like he is perfect makes me want to look into it. Remember those four kids on the beach. That was why his constatuents were trying to get him to not fund bomb to drop on Gaza for the IDF. He funded them anyway.

[artislife]

94. None of the candidates have a good record on Brown people

He's the lesser of the evils that will be on the ballot.


Isn't that who I am supposed to vote for. The lesser of the evil of the imperfect?

[bravenak]

105. I go with which group treats me best personally. That way I know my voice will not be shouted down.

Honestly I think a certain side should have kept me on their side. I am very good at taking either side of an issue and winning.
I get epiphanies daily. I wondered at the time when I was given the boot from the Bernie camp, if people knew who they were messin with. Apparently not. Some people can completely change the convo and vibe. I saw all that cockyiness and decided, if they treat me this way, how will they act if he wins? I better put a stop to the harassment of blm and people crowing about how Bernie is the best, when I find him lackluster.

Some have gotten positively religious. Like jehovah witnesses. " Have you heard the good news about Bernhovah?" Gaaaah!!! He is not that great!!! I can only even find one black person he ever campaigned for!!! One!!

Well. The bern is over. I'm planning another piece picking him apart soon. Will keep it up since so many said such nasty things directly to me that I have to make their day suck. Like they did mine. I even will submit Third Way Progressives, to make it official in the urban dictionary.

[artislife]

137. I know you support Hillary now.

I don't.

That is what it is.

My choice of candidate has nothing to do with which group treats me best personally. You had an awful experience here. You do what you must. I don't hate you for your choice or belittle you or think badly of you. I just won't vote the way you do in the primaries. I will still support my candidate.

I am experiencing this post as being mad at me for supporting Bernie while you no longer do. I don't know if that is true or not, but you are a grown woman with her own needs and issues that are important to you. You must vote in your best interest. If that is Hillary, great. Vote for her.

This is a board of opinions, as I see it. Just opinions bonking each other on the head, sometimes gently laying out an argument, other times exuberantly shouting its joy for its candidate. It's the very nature of the beast.

If I were an O'Malley supporter I would still post my opinion of my candidate. Elleng isn't rebuffed by the sheer numbers of people who don't care if her candidate drops out or not. My voting for Bernie has little to do with the members of this site. I came in supporting him looking for people who did as well. If they all left tomorrow, I would not change my vote because of it.

[bravenak]

141. Meh. Support is relative.

Do I love her? I feel the same way I felt before. Ambivalent.

I is not just this board... When people start sending letters and stopping black folks in public places to go full Bernie, that is concerning. When it is brushed off as not important? Pisses me off. Minimized? F that.

What is supposed to happen is a ephipany where folks realize most people are not policy wonks but vote based on how shit makes them feel.

[artislife]

146. There is a lot of shit

Being thrown all the way around.

Racist shit, stupid shit, shitty shit shit.

I see H supporters saying she has the minority votes on her side as a prize. Not as peers. Minorities are still considered "other". It is the subtle racism that has a particular odor that grates. They don't think it is racist, that is even makes it more distasteful.


What we can agree that race is used like a brick in this society. Either it helps us build or it helps us destroy. And every campaign has its bricks.


I think there are very few who know about the letter that think it is nothing. I would never ask you to amend how you feel about any of it.


And yes, it is true that people vote based on how they feel. I will vote on that, but it is the candidates actions that I will base my feeling on.

[bravenak]

147. When it is used against blacks by whites...

My racist-dar heats up. It burned out on blm. Only one side did that shit and it was probably un live down able. Period. If you ever start thinking it was not so bad, go back to july 21 and aug 8 and read. Read this. I have a bookmark for a thread that I read to remind myself of who I am dealing with. It breaks my heart each time but strengthens my resolve.

[artislife]

149. I remember it.

I still think Hillary is a worse candidate.

I still think Hillary supporters here used that shit with glee. They were only slightly smarter than the asshole racists on the Bernie side.

If we could look in their hearts...I think we would see a lot of the same feelings toward minorities.

I also remember 2008 when I was on the Tennessee guerrilla women site
http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/

The confluence, and half a dozen more that no longer have much of a voice.

It is nothing now, but it was hot and heavy during 2008. The White Boomer Feminists had lots to say about a Xer Half white/brown woman who was impressed with Obama. That shit was shit. I had one woman say that she was going to vote for every anti abortion bill there was to take it away from the ingrates who couldn't give them the woman president they deserved. There were others telling me that my experience as a person was not influenced by race at all and that I should be a good girl and follow the women. They used to say we already had a Black president because Toni Morrison declared that Bill was it.


Maybe that is what makes it next to impossible for me to blacken a circle on a ballot with her name on it.


I get the anger at the supporters. Hell, I probably read the posts here with those voices that were so angry and dismissive then. I am positive I do. Those supporters have probably ruined h for me. Well along with Super Tuesday and the dog whistles.

[bravenak]

150. This time was worse for blacks than the last time with Hill.

Sadly cause bernie is closer to me on policy. Not left enough by any mean, but I always compromise my ideals when voting.

[artislife]

152. Good luck to all of us

Whoever gets in better do a kick ass job or the pitchforks may be coming out!

[Gloria]

30. So, he's getting more "pointed" against Clinton...well, then don't

get your panties in a bunch, Bernie supporters, if HRC does the same with him.

He's got a history of anti JFK, anti Obama, stuff, a little fling with Castro...and has been sitting pretty in Congress without having to stick his neck out on much...

My fave is his betrayal of Ron Paul on a complete audit of the Fed...caving and switching for the ineffective watered-down version without even informing Paul of his sudden change....the two had companion bills going...until Sanders suddenly decided not to go with it....

Bernie served VT with his gun control stuff...meanwhile, Clinton had to deal with her constituents which included the city of NY where the Twin Towers were destroyed and 3,000 people died. Her vote on Iraq, based on the information at hand, was something that could be seen as serving HER constituents....

[azmom]

39. Sitting pretty? LOL

The only one that is sitting pretty with all her millions is Hillary.

[beam me up scottie]

46. So she voted to start a war against Iraq because of 9/11???

[JTShroyer]

53. Bush told us that, yes. He told everyone that.

Your rhetorical questions suck

[beam me up scottie]

61. And you believed that Saddam was responsible? What is wrong with you?

[JTShroyer]

80. For you to be bale to say this in retrospect must make you feel pretty cool, LOL

Your revisionist history of what was happened within our country and culture after 9/11 is frightening.

To blame Hillary for Bush lying to her is scary and unfair.

Bernie voted against the war, yes. But to deny the reality of Bush and his cronies, and to conflate Hillary with them is sad

[beam me up scottie]

84. No, since that vote sent my brother to Ramadi I'm not feeling cool at all.

But obviously you weren't affected by the war or you wouldn't be defending it.

[JTShroyer]

98. How am I defending it?

I'm defending these key FACTS: 1. Hillary didn't vote FOR the Iraq war. She voted for an authorization bill. 2. Bush said he would let the inspectors finish their job. 3. Bush said he would go to war as a last, not a first resort.

To portray it as anything different is just an attempt to hurt Hillary.

Bush fucked up. The blame is at his feet. Period.

[beam me up scottie]

100. You claim Hillary's not responsible. She voted for it, she owns it. Even she knows that.

I blame Bush too, and everyone who voted for the war, but they're not running for president.

[JTShroyer]

104. She voted for an authorization bill not the war itself (HUGE DISTINCTION THAT YOU IGNORE)

Bush said he would go to war as a last resort and only after the inspectors finished their job. That's what he told Hillary.

Bush lied, people died.

[beam me up scottie]

109. She voted for the Iraq war, so your slogan should be: she believed Bush and people died.

I don't hold her solely responsible but I don't absolve her either.

[irisblue]

145. alert results

So simplistic -- so stupid -- but you are a Bernie fan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=725421

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling another poster stupid is going too far, this poster has descended into personal attacks. We can debate the issues without insulting each other.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Oct 25, 2015, 06:04 PM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: this is rude. there was a lot of back and forth w/ BMUS, passion is good, but this is too far. HIDE irisblue
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I'm not sure if the post calls the person stupid, or calls the opinion stupid. Either way, it's over the top.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Heh, should have stopped at "So simplistic"----the rest is reflectively stupid!

[Gloria]

56. Just an example of how consituents play into votes...

not nec. a vote for 911, but the overall upset about the Middle East, terrorists etc. all jumbled together...the tenor of the times was pretty crazy...Vulnerabilty and fear was all over the place...

[beam me up scottie]

62. Except some knew better, they knew Bush lied and what would happen:

Why didn't Hillary?

[azmom]

70. That had nothing to do with constituents and

Everything to do with oil. Get a clue.

[99Forever]

64. Laudy laudy ....

... I thought I'd clicked into Freeperville by accident.

[beam me up scottie]

71. That's like the third time I've seen that recently.

[artislife]

54. H has always chosen to go on the attack

She has made her career on it.

[Fawke Em]

115. Except her constituents were against the war.

Only 20 percent of New Yorkers supported the war.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2003/03/nycc-m14.html

So... who was she actually representing?

[frazzled]

76. Ralph Waldo Emerson once wrote

and take it as you like

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/353571-a-foolish-consistency-is-the-hobgoblin-of-little-minds-adored

[workinclasszero]

153. Thank you so much!

Great way to separate the BS (heh) out of the conversation and show who the hell actually got things done and laws passed to help Americans!

Hillary Rodham Clinton!

[V0ltairesGh0st]

157. The Rabid Hillary-Bros

continue their attacks.

Glad Bernie has been Nothing but gracious to Hillary, and has only clearly pointed out where she is wrong without being vicious, unlike ALL THE HILLARY supporters on DU. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

[DrBulldog]

158. Yep. Just another consistent piece of whopping BS from a Clinton supporter.

When you leave out 95% of the truth you can prove anything!

[SharpProgress]

160. Vermont....

Is not New York.

Everyone seems to forget this!