Oh those awful monolithic Bernie supporters. Angry for no reason, and all exactlly alike.

[Armstead]

Jeeze this broad brush painting is really getting old.

I'm a 63 year old "old fart" (in a Baby Boomer way), and I'm frustrated at having seen our standards degenerate over the last 30 years. I'm angry that economic values and behavior and conditions that would have been considered unthinkable and immoral when I was young have become "mainstream" today. I'm angry that I'm at heart a moderate liberal, but am considered "fringe angry left" by the current conservative Democratic political compass.

And all of us Bernsters are monolithic. Yeah, I'm exactly like the 23 year old kid who's angry and frustrated because he or she is straddled with college debt and can't find a job that isn't in India, and who Bernie's message also resonates with.

There are REASONS people are angry, and think the status quo isn't working and needs fundamental reform.

[tblue]

1. Generalizing about a group of people won't win them over

Does anyone like being stereotyped? Fwiw, I don't fit the mold either. Not even close.

There's such disrespect for Bernie's supporters, but then we are, by definition, swimming upstream so we were always going to face resistance.

[99th_Monkey]

15. And, it's ALL they got, because our candidate is honest, with a consistently progressive voting record

(unless you want to quibble about details on guns) three decades long. So they HAVE to
go after "Bernie's angry supporters" .. we're so bad, bad, bad

[Bubzer]

17. This about says it all for me

[DownriverDem]

22. Doesn't matter

Just make sure that you vote in Nov. 2016. Besides it doesn't matter to me if a candidate changes his/her mind on issues. It means they aren't a brain dead repub.

[Bubzer]

23. It matters to me that they are able to be right on the issues without having to "evolve" to be right

[ChairmanAgnostic]

34. I don't mind some evolution,

because my ideas clearly evolved since 1976. When I studied one summer in the USSR, I came back an absolute hard core conservative republican. Ever since, I have edged to the left, and for the past 20 years have been solidly liberal. I evolved. I learned just how bad GOP ideas actually hurt people. I also learned that Hillary prefers many of those ideas.

[Bubzer]

47. It's awsome that you were able to evolve. However, you're not under consideration for POTUS.

There's a significantly higher bar when considering a potential future president. In this case, judgment is at issue. HRC has shown a lack of good judgment on numerous issues. Evolving to be on the right side of those issues is good, but it's still bad judgment that created the need to evolve in the first place. Bernie has had virtually no need to evolve. He's been right on nearly every issue, from the start.

Evolution isn't revolution.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

73. Well put.

[randr]

100. And revolution is not evolution

[Bubzer]

105. Also true. Neither should be necessary. Much better to be aligned with the right side from the start

[Rilgin]

56. Evolution is a personal good

Your post was reasonable but looking somewhat inward. I am happy for her as a person if she has evolved away from some of her previous public positions. Such liberal evolution in viewpoint is a good thing for a person.

However, she is not a private individual. She is trying for president despite having a history of wrong votes and positions on matters that are important to a large number of democratic voters and voters who vote independant but lean left.

Her evolution is nice but HRC has had a number of wrong votes in her career that should have ended her forward motion in politics. This is not unique to her but is a function of the establishment. It is mindblowing that the Democratic Party keeps nominating politicians who voted for the Iraq War. '

These democratic politicians are not criminals like some of the Republicans who sold us the war. However, this was the most momentous vote in the last 20 years. In many ways it has shaped our world. Hillary and the other democrats like her, held their finger in the wind, and made a political judgement about the political consequences of voting for that war. I am sure they did not believe it would end up the disaster for the middle east that it did but their vote was a political calculation. Since it ended up on the wrong side of history, the consequence for this should be that the politicians who voted wrong should bite the bullet and not be rewarded by becoming president. The cost for such bad votes really should be their ambitions.

However, instead of looking her decisions squarely in the eye and just becoming a statewoman, she has used power politics and money to continue her ambition.

What makes it worse, is she threatens the democratic party by not recognizing that her past votes divide the democratic party and her past lies, reinventions, and history enrage the republican mind and will provide fodder for attacks in the GE. After 2008 this should have been obvious that she does not have full democratic support because of the past votes discussed above which let a young senator beat her despite the same early advantages that she has had in this primary.

Among democrats, the division is real as witness what happens here on DU and on other groups. This division is not the same as previous primary fights. It is recognition by many of the people who have been consistent democratic voters that no matter what she says, she is a politician and despite being better than a republican in the short term it is not clear what she will do for most of us in the long term.

[JDPriestly]

94. Great post. You really said what needs to be said. Haven't read many of your posts before.

I hope that you will post many more posts like this. It is outstanding.

Here, you express my fears and the reason I cannot in good conscience vote for Hillary in the general election. It's Bernie or no one for me. Here it is:

"despite being better than a republican in the short term it is not clear what she will do for most of us in the long term."

I just cannot bring myself to trust Hillary.

[delrem]

88. This is fake "evolution" for a tarted up sound byte during a campaign,

totally contradicting everything Hillary Clinton has stood for, promoted, and done, all her political life.

It's an abuse of the concept 'evolution', to say it applies in this way to changing sound bytes in campaign politics.

Here, this is a link to some substance and truth - merrily just posted it in response to another thread, another OP - and it doesn't hurt to get some perspective.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/7796

Or are you going to get sucked in by just every shyster putting out a line, in politics and everywhere, since every new line can be interpreted as being further "evolved" into something that you think sounds nicer, so therefore *is* nicer, in your mind, regardless of how it contradicts actual fact? That's a bloody weird way of understanding the concept of 'evolution'.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

104. thanks for posting. that was a hell of an article from 2011

and it is not the kind of stuff that Hillary wants to see.

[delrem]

112. Hillary doesn't want us to see anything.

The singular characteristic of Hillary Clinton's campaign is a denial of history, and a falsification of history.
It's so bad, and what's going on at DU to sell it is so bad, so abhorrent, that I don't want to address it, to engage with it. I refuse to engage with neocons. It takes a better person than me to do the hard work.

Like you, I've "evolved" in my political ideas - but I prefer to use the term 'learned'.
My learning experience is different than yours. But it's the same in the one general sense that learning is cumulative, over time, and "positions" don't change on a dime. Learning is enduring. It's the kind of thing that of necessity can be explained. HRC has a couple billion dollars of backers who say she doesn't have to explain anything at all. They own the MSM so they're paying themselves from one pocket to another when they sell her conscience free.

[MannyGoldstein]

26. Awesome graphic! nt

[Bubzer]

48. ty

[merrily]

92. She hasn't adopted his exact positions, though. She has tried to sound a lot more like he sounds,

yes, but she has not adopted his exact positions at all.

Expanding OASDI and free tuition at public institutions of higher learning are but two she has not adopted, though she has thrown out something about making higher education more affordable. McCaskill, one of her campaign surrogates, said on Morning Joe that Sanders is not a serious candidate because he talks about "entitlements."

[Bubzer]

107. True.

And her top donors are still the banks and corporations. If she gets elected, it'll be business as usual.

[Cleita]

108. I think it depends on how you get there.

To explain. We all wanted universal health care. So we got the Affordable Care Act under Third Wayer, President Obama. Yes, it is an improvement but people still struggle to afford it and many are still not covered. If social democrats would have been in charge, we would have gotten improved and extended Medicare for All or single payer health care. Instead we got the same as usual, insurance companies and HMO's that became more regulated and inclusive. That's what you will get with Hillary, maybe some regulation of the institutions and corporations gone amok but no real change that will improve the lives of most Americans. The MIL and Wall Street will continue to fill their pockets with taxpayer's money and we will continue our disastrous foreign policy of war and aggression.

[merrily]

109. Yes, but Hillary has not adopted Sanders' exact positions and you are not saying she has (or will).

[delrem]

113. She promised to be more right wing than Ronald Reagan,

Last edited Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:47 AM - Edit history (1)

w.r.t. the ME, esp. Iran, which she promised to make the US ready for war against, if elected - in her Brookings speech, for which she was applauded. Like for a hefty fee she sat down with GMO lobbyists and explained how the industry needs a touchy feely vocabulary to sell the product, and she was avid for the opportunity to assist.


One thing for sure, she carries herself not like a princess but like a queen.

edited: I deleted a sentence that could be read in an an unforgivable sense. That wasn't meant.

[JDPriestly]

93. Love it.

[houston_radical]

43. CAUSE AND EFFECT

sure, it's ok if people change their views - we all do
but HRC has changed her views recently - why?
what would be the cause?
Bernie? probably
This is the point conveniently ignored - all the time!

[GoneFishin]

80. And why does she always wet her finger and stick it into the air right beforehand?

I go deaf when someone tells me what they think I want to hear. I am interested in the truth, not a snow job.

[sabrina 1]

95. It's a TACTIC. A Politcal Ploy! They could not attack Bernie on the issues, so some moron who works

for some Think Tank somewhere, funded by Corporate Money, most likely came up with this meme. I know it is a tactic because like all of these foul political dirty tricks you see them repeated and repeated.

Someone who just thinks that the supporters of a particular candidate are all bad, might say it, but it won't be broadcast and spread around the same way they spread talking points.

So it's clearly intended to get to HIM by attacking his SUPPORTERS.

Notice that you don't see the 'Hillary's supporters are awful' meme being spread around. That's because Bernie doesn't fund dirty tricks with Corporate Money.

So let's just call it what it is and mock it, and use it to further condemn the dirty money that is flooding our political system.

Because I have watched these memes for years now, and it's not hard to recognize them when you see them.

[pinebox]

2. Ya I know, "angry for no reason"

while swimming in student loan debt they will NEVER pay off in their lifetime.
Fighting against a candidate who doesn't even support a living wage of $15 an hour.

[billhicks76]

72. Poll On HuffPost With Hillary Losing General

But Bernie winning it.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8388316?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013

[sorechasm]

97. Good article. Thank you billhicks76

With Hillary Clinton's FBI email investigation most likely running through Election Day, the only way U.S. nuclear launch codes get anywhere near a President Donald Trump is if the billionaire gets to debate Hillary Clinton on a national stage. Comfortable on screen and in his element, even Trump's nauseating arrogance would allow him to harp endlessly upon Clinton's email issues and prior controversies. In fact, Hillary Clinton might even lose decisively against Trump, primarily because the billionaire donated to her Foundation and the FBI investigation undermines her credibility.

With Bernie Sanders, the New York billionaire is reduced to a caricature of himself, and the personification of everything wrong in politics. Bernie Sanders is the only hope for Democrats against Trump and polls already show the Democratic-Socialist and Democratic candidate winning. In reality, only Bernie Sanders can save Democrats, and most importantly, the United States of America from a reality show in the White House. For this reason, in addition to many other advantages Sanders offers Democrats, the Vermont Senator will win the nomination and eventually the presidency.

[Kalidurga]

3. It is all they have.

They can't directly attack Bernie or his policy proposals so they attack the supporters. It's as easy as kicking puppies.

[Jim Lane]

4. Yes, and all "unhinged" as well

At least, so I learned from a post in the Hillary Clinton Group -- a characterization that was kicked and recommended by one of their esteemed Group Hosts.

[valerief]

6. You should trash that group or post something just barely offensive to them (not as offensive

as their unhinged post, of course), and they'll gladly ban you. Just say something like I did, on Latest Threads in response to someone whining about DU. I said that there must be a center-rightunderground.com somewhere on the web. I never see that group or think about it for months on end.

[SoapBox]

24. I too now wear the proud Banned Badge!

And all by accident.

I had the group trashed and multitudes of it's very active and vicious participants blocked...but with a slip of a reply to an OP in Trending on the front page...was banned in like 3 seconds.

As soon as my reply posted at the bottom of the OP and saw the group, I immediately self-deleted...as soon as I hit update, "You have new mail" was there...hell, I was even going to try an Opps! message.

What jerks they are...and it looks like their candidate would fall right in line with them, since the dirty politicking comments are coming already from the Weathervane.

[Jim Lane]

54. Welcome to club, No. 229!

My block there (No. 93) was also by accident. There were three different threads open on the same topic. I read them all and decided what comment I wanted to make. Instead of wasting time trying to decide where my post would get the most attention, I just posted in one. What I'd forgotten was that one was the HRC Group.

In such instances in other groups, I've sometimes seen a polite response of "Hey, did you know you were posting in a protected group?" The poster then says, "Oops, sorry, my mistake," and self-deletes. I would certain have done so. Like you, however, I never got the chance, being swiftly blocked. There's no tolerance for honest error among the supporters of a candidate who has herself admitted to making some errors.

[Jim Lane]

59. I haven't trashed it, nor do I have anyone on Ignore.

As Gore Vidal wrote, "Who knows through what door wisdom will walk?" (I don't know to what extent that represents Vidal's actual opinion; it was dialog he wrote for the Emperor in his novel Julian.) I remain open to the possibility that I will learn something from people with whom I disagree, and even from people who often engage in name calling, non sequiturs, straw-man arguments, and other such noise.

As the nomination battle heats up, however, some DUers are doing their damnedest to push me toward your point of view.

[valerief]

65. I'm old now. My tolerance for pettiness ran off with my good knees.

[DhhD]

31. I just ask a DU member over at that group, why Sanders wanted Obama primaried in 2012.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/18/bernie-sanders-obama-primary_n_837819.html
HuffPost's Sam Stein pointed out that former president Bill Clinton had come under much heavier scrutiny from members of his party when in office. After facing Democratic skepticism in the wake of substantial losses in the 1994 midterm races, he rebounded before his own reelection in 1996.
more at link


http://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-talks-primary-challenge-obama-good-idea-our-democracy-and-democratic-part/

The Vermont independent is not running for president, but he says it’s time “that people start asking the president some hard questions about why he said one thing during his previous campaign, and is doing another thing today on Social Security, on Medicare.”
By John NicholsTwitter AUGUST 14, 2011
more at link

[cui bono]

71. Yah, nevermind that Hillary played the gender card as soon as she figured out how to twist Bernie's

words into something that he never said at all. But then a supporter of hers is saying only right wingers would call out someone playing the gender card to deflect blame away from the anointed one.

[dorkzilla]

76. Never saw that one coming...

[BeanMusical]

85. "unhinged"

Lol! The are projecting like crazy! (bad pun intended)

[jtuck004]

5. I started in politics watching Democrats turn over buses and beat up black kids in Oklahoma City.

Democrats who want to castigate Bernie supporters bring back those memories - which may be why I don't waste my time listening to much of their blather.

[randys1]

51. WTF? What year are you talking about?

I dont want to assume anything here.

[Art_from_Ark]

77. Maybe the 1971 Springlake Amusement Park riot?

http://newsok.com/gallery/602830/pictures/1475749

[randys1]

78. When Dems were cons and cons were Dems? Right about that time, right!

[weknowvino2]

7. KnR

I share your anger & frustration.
I voted for Hope & Change and I got a corporatist.
Thanks anyway. I'm not buying what Hillary is selling. If Hillary is the Democratic nominee,
I will write in Bernie Sanders name.
He is the only one in this game that I trust.

[donnasgirl]

9. Agreed

I and my family will no longer follow the DNC, one only has to look at who is their leader, DWS who we simply can not stand.

[magical thyme]

11. Me too. I'm not voting for the status quo, period.

The status quo hasn't been working for me for quite some time now.

I, too, voted for "hope and change" and got a raw deal.

No more. No more family dynasties. No more of the same. Just count me as one of those "angry Bernie supporters."

If push comes to shove, I'll write-in my presidential vote.

[coolepairc]

74. I'm done with the Dems too

After 40 years, doing everything imaginable for the party, I'm done. After I cast my vote for Bernie in the primary, I'm registering Green and not looking back. The party cares not one whit about working class, poor and ordinary Americans or the common good. It's become a party of corrupt, aspirational, privileged, materialist and imperialist elites.

[bvar22]

40. "Hope & Change"... LOL

Nobody better try to use that one again,
because it is DONE!.

[cui bono]

70. How about....

"And now for something completely different."

[BeanMusical]

86. Rofl!

Thanks for the laugh, I almost choked. Love Monty Python.

[ProgressiveVC]

8. I know!

Anecdotal evidence: I polled my office - a mix of 20 people in finance, programming, design - expecting some mix between dem/gop, and maybe some of the liberal 1%ers supporting HRC.

Boy was I surprised. From Managing Director to designer, from investment banking to marketing, the office is 100% supporting Bernie Sanders.

None of the stereotypes hold true. All but 1 person would support the eventual dem nominee, but hoped there would be someone who shares Bernie's views on the ticket.

[DownriverDem]

21. Just vote

I will vote for whoever gets the Dem nomination. If Bernie voters can't say the same thing, then they will see a repub president Jan 2017.

[ProgressiveVC]

39. uhhh what

did you mean to respond to me?

[stillwaiting]

42. That is excellent news. You are truly blessed to work where you do.

Welcome to DU!

[ProgressiveVC]

45. Thank you!

Thanks for the welcome.

My workplace has to be some sort of outlier, but I'll take it!

[yuiyoshida]

10. I'm with you!

[freebrew]

12. I'm an old guy too(64)...

been through the same shit.

Now, I'm apparently a radical leftist.

Really, I just see through the bullshit.

As a friend used to tell me: Everything management says is a lie.

I find you can't go wrong if you keep that in mind.

[Armstead]

13. That's really all it takes -- just seeing through the bullshit

Like whenever two profitable corporations that are already too big announce a merger, they say "We're merging to protect competition."

When a company -- also profitable -- announces it is moving its operations to Mexico or India, they say it is to "save jobs."

Paging George Orwell.

[DownriverDem]

19. Vote for the Dems

If not, we hand it to the repubs.

[freebrew]

28. Never voted for anything but a Dem...

my grandfather had his head busted in a union strike. Hoover was president and sent in the Feds to bust the union.

My grandparents hated publicans and that was passed to me.

Thanks to them, I'm an FDR Democrat and proud of it.

IF it has to be, I'll hold my nose and vote for HRC.

I really hope I don't have to.

[djean111]

33. This is not the time for that exhortation. Right now, it is like saying the issues do not count.

The issues DO count, and there are a LOT of people newly involved in politics because of Bernie, and they see this constant "Vote for the Dem, even if it is Hillary" as just so much business as usual horseshit. I don't think they will vote for the same old thing. (Oh, I do hope someone interprets that as ageist - always cracks me up - someone even opined very ponderously that the young voters won't vote for Hillary BECAUSE SHE IS OLDER AND WEAR PANTSUITS AND IS NOT COOL. Way to grossly underestimate and devalue and marginalize!)

And yeah, 99.9% of the Pledge-y Thing is predicated on Hillary being the nominee. Been reading that for almost a year now. Again, this is not the time for that, and it really is counter-productive.

[BeanMusical]

87. It seems that this poster is grumpy because they lost a sock in the laundry.

[NRaleighLiberal]

14. Yup. My ignore list number is nearing my age.

In 11 years it is my first use of ignore.

[arcane1]

41. I finally started using it for the first time last week.

Still a small list, but it definitely filtered out the worst of the noise.

[haikugal]

16. Yeah...I'm in agreement with you about everything you said.

K&R Armstead and keep kicking!

We've seen way too much of this in our lifetimes to be fooled again...the hope and change was a scam and I've had more than enough!

We aren't alone either...there are legions of people who feel the same for very similar reasons.

Feel the Bern!

[DownriverDem]

18. Don't lose sight of the goal

Nov. 2016. That's all I care about. We need all ages to vote Democratic.

[jwirr]

30. Of course but do not delude yourself. We will not get change

for a status quo leader. Business as usual is what we will get. Rs will destroy everything we have fought for but for real change we need Bernie.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

20. Same age, born in June....

I have been angry at the way things have been in this country for decades.
Protested the VM war and never stopped caring.
I'm a vet of that very same war, served as a CO.

Bernie is the candidate that we have been looking for, for a very long time.
I just can't understand the freaking resistance.

[jwirr]

25. 74 year old white woman here. I started out voting for JFK.

The Party welcomed me. By the time George McGovern came around they were calling me "socialist - commie" and that is when I started believing them. I am a Democrat in the mode of FDR.

So they can keep right on calling me names - I will not change my belief that we are a party of the people for the people.

Go Bernie go.

[Bohunk68]

99. I'm just curious. I am 72, two years younger than you, and my first election was

in 1964, the year I turned 21. How could you have voted 4 years previously when you were only 19?

[jwirr]

111. I am not sure what you are asking. My first vote was for JFK

and I am just this month 74. Born in 1941.

[CoffeeCat]

27. I'm a middle-aged mom from the suburbs...

I hardly fit the "angry bro" marketing meme--that was designed to denigrate Bernie supporters.

They're trying desperately to make it "uncool" to be a Bernie supporter.

Hillary and her accomplices in the media went full-court-press with this talking point immediately after the debate.

When are these fools going to realize that you can only get so far with guerrilla marketing and lie-based talking points?

I mean really.

I guess when you're biggest contributors are Goldman Sachs, Citibank, and Time Warner, it's best to deflect, right? I guess when you take money from the prison-industrial complex and Big Pharma--it's best to spread "key messages" about your opponents that cast them in a positive light, right?

[BeanMusical]

89. +1

You hit the nail on the head.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

29. Actually, the term is "Bernistas"....

It's a play on "Sandinistas" which is idiotic because they were Reagan's "commie boogymen" that he sent the blood soaked Contras to fight so those calling Bernie supporters "Bernistas" are aligning themselves with Reagan.

BTW: The actual Sandinistas in Nicaragua provided free education, health care and the most ironic - equality for women.

[Fast Walker 52]

32. right on!!!

[Thirties Child]

35. 80 yo white female

So want Bernie, will vote for HRC if I have to, but not at all happy about it. Not that it will mean much since I'm in a red state. If HRC wins, I don't have much hope for the future of the country.

[UglyGreed]

36. I'm fifty and

watched the death of left wing politics for most of my life......

[Utopian Leftist]

61. I'm very close to you in age and

the first President liberals in our age group voted for, who actually won, was Bill Clinton.

I can only speak for myself here, but he really let us down. He did not represent or stand up for the liberal values that I cherish. He bargained away the ranch and compromised too much that wasn't his to compromise in the first place; I resent it. I resent having been forced to vote for someone who was not a true liberal, who did not represent my beliefs and who did not promote my good ideas. For my entire voting life (until now, with Bernie) it has been one compromise after another lesser of two evils. I am not going to be fooled yet again.

[UglyGreed]

63. Yes I agreed

this maybe why I do not trust Hillary. It may not be fair but I can not help but to think back how this brand of Democrat came to be.

[BrainDrain]

37. Seriously correct....

I am only a year or so behind you, and would be considered a, ummmmmm, radical by some. But Bernie is the first pol in a long time that actually WANTS to change stuff up as opposed to just mouthing the words.

That is his appeal.

Screw the establishment and their corporate candidate.

BERNIE!!!!

[gregcrawford]

38. I am a card-carrying curmudgeon as well...

... I'm 68 and my simmering anger has been fanned into a conflagration of all-consuming rage. I will fight corporatism until I draw my last breath. It is the single most virulent evil poisoning this planet, both literally and figuratively.

Apathy is not an option if we are to survive as a species, let alone as a nation.

All of the Republican candidates pander to the Religious Right, but even some on the Left say, "Oh, we must respect their beliefs." Bullshit. Making excuses for simpletons who seek to impose their theocratic insanity on the rest of us affords them a legitimacy they do not deserve. They must be denounced and exposed for the hypocrites they are. The corporatists exploit their willful stupidity because the hive mentality is so easy to manipulate and redirect to violent action. Witness The Donald exhorting his followers to forcibly remove from his most recent rally those protesting his proposed immigration policies. They got the living shit beat out of them. And then that festering malignancy said his followers will likely get even more violent. He said nothing about stopping them.

I am a Liberal down to my DNA, but I am a Liberal who can snap-shoot the seeds out of a grape off-hand. I support stricter regulation of firearms possession, but I would remind fellow progressives that when the proverbial substance hits the fan - and that's "when," not "if" - it's the Right-wing whackjobs that are already armed to the teeth. And we know that trying to reason with these mental defectives is pissing into the wind, so it comes down to this: Fight, or die.

I know what my choice will be.

[MasonDreams]

44. The political spectrum has shifted.

Fringe angry left? The Party is trying to leave me! Where's your big tent fellow Democrats?
Work hard, play by the rules, don't go to the doctor, turn the heat down, no AC, beg for a ride to work,
eat beans when you want chicken; And Don't Vote for a Real Progressive? What's next?
There are reasons people are angry. Hillary is a self proclaimed center-right, center, center-left, center.
And the "center" is over there with Henry Kissinger? And she said, Progressive in the debate.
15yrs. of war against who? Islamic extremists, but not the ones who sell us oil, and not the ones in the country
that already has the bomb and were sheltering Osama been forgotten. I thought Al Gore got more Votes?
What Happened? I AM VOTING FOR THE NOMINEE!!! THIS IS THE PRIMARY SEASON!!!

[MasonDreams]

46. I'm thinking Hillary is the one who can't win in the General. Feelin' the Bern? yea, me too!!

[BeanMusical]

90. You are not alone.

Favorability Ratings Show Hillary Clinton Is Unelectable and Bernie Sanders Wins a General Election

The same polls used to extol Hillary Clinton's lead over Bernie Sanders among Democrats are also the same polls that illustrate voters nationwide don't trust and don't view the former Secretary of State in a favorable manner. According to Huffpost Pollster's Hillary Clinton Favorability Rating, the former Secretary of State has negative favorability ratings in 9 out of 10 national polls:

AP-GfK (web): 41 48 Unfavorable +7
Morning Consult: 47 46 Favorable +1
NBC/WSJ: 39 48 Unfavorable +9
Emerson College
Polling Society: 42 55 Unfavorable +13
CNN: 46 50 Unfavorable +4
Morning Consult: 44 51 Unfavorable +7
YouGov/Economist: 43 49 Unfavorable +6
ABC/Post: 47 49 Unfavorable +2
CBS: 33 53 Unfavorable +20
Morning Consult: 42 53 Unfavorable +11

Finally, numerous polls show Bernie Sanders already defeats Donald Trump by a wider margin than Hillary Clinton in a general election. Sanders also has higher favorability ratings than Clinton or Trump and is a less polarizing figure.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/favorability-ratings-show-hillary-clinton-is-unelectable_b_8388316.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013

[Enthusiast]

49. Kicked and recommended!

The status quo is a total failure for regular working class people.

[Half-Century Man]

50. 56 for 3 days now.

Veteran, unionist, ex-factory rat, child of a hippy and a career enlisted man. Raised by strong women's advocates in a too often single parent environment (Dad deployed). Got my degree late in life, cancer a decade prior to that, and got a family too. Happy childhood, seething teen years, discovered marijuana and calmed down, and finally feel like I've developed a bit of wisdom. I am all of this and more, still learning, and nothing special.

I don't know if I'm anything other than just me.

Everything I've learned, both on my own and through formal education, has led me to support Bernie Sanders for the Democratic candidate for President of the United States.
Hillary Clinton isn't such an easy call for me. I see her as very much in love with/chasing power and the most obvious indicator of power, money. I have said so from my beginning here at DU. I do not hate her, just her past of constantly modifying her message in regards to her current audience has failed to alter my original perception. It isn't so much she expresses her message differently to be better understood, she seems to change the content to be better liked.
I am getting more and more impressed by Martin O'Malley lately. I think he has become my second choice for Democratic Nominee/ first choice for VP.

Oh yeah, as far as that angry thing. Not so much

[Armstead]

64. Your lack of anger proves the point -- It's not a monolithic bloc

People support him for varying reasons and different life experiences.

I'm angry on a political level, but in a personable accepting way in real life. Heck I even have best friends who support Clinton and some, MyGawd, are Republicans.

[Half-Century Man]

75. We are so monolithic, if 6 dozen of us stood in a field.

There would be a tv show explaining how ancient aliens erected us and try to decode our pattern.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

98. LOL, good one. n/t

[Dont call me Shirley]

52. Another angry, monolithic Bernster here.....

Support the Bern!

[Armstead]

66. Another angry, monolithic Bernster here.....

Support the Bern!

(Just being monolithic)

[Dont call me Shirley]

68. ....

[Uncle Joe]

53. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Armstead.

[MuseRider]

55. From the same time.

I will be 62 in a little over a month. I have always been a radical lefty however and it feels really good right now to see the party (oh wait I was just told he is NOT a member only using them for everything he can't get himself) shift ever so slightly left. It will never be where I want it but I will take this shift with Bernie.

We have to change and we don't have time to piddle around. We need to get started and then run as fast as we can, it is almost (or maybe) too late.

Whatever the kids are doing is what the kids are doing. Leave me out of that, I am me and I am with Bernie.

DU sadly has become just stupid. Whatever it takes to stir people up and make them mad then pointing at them and making an issue of them for getting mad. Yes, that is productive, brilliant and very mature.

[Fumesucker]

57. "DU sadly has become just stupid."

For me DU went from being informative and edgy to entertaining in a ludicrous way.

I don't have anyone on ignore and I sit here and laugh and laugh when reading DU these days.

[MuseRider]

58. :-)

I just usually put them on email ignore, not because they mail me but just to keep track. I only have a couple of people who post now on ignore, not sure I may have taken them off. I don't like to use it, you do miss a lot and even though there is so much dumb crap there is likely a gem in there somewhere.

I still post to try to stop the stupid stuff when I feel motivated to but much of the time I do like you and just laugh. As if we are not in a very unstable time we go and pick on people leaving an event early and making people feel badly. Or actually yelling during a campaign speech. *sigh* *chuckle*

[Fumesucker]

60. You can still have some good conversations here but it's more difficult than it used to be

Mostly I'm here still because I understand a lot of the in jokes and I'm fond of some of the personalities..

[BeanMusical]

91. I only have 2-3 people on mail ignore because of unsolicited angry PMs and my ignore list is empty.

Don't want to miss the funny stuff and I also wouldn't get the inside jokes if I had peeps on ignore.

[GeorgeGist]

62. Moderate republicans.

Have no where else to go.

[Vincardog]

67. REASONS people are angry, and think the status quo isn't working and needs fundamental reform: 1)

Money in politics
2) The corrupt SCOTUS which abides by no code of ethics and unleashes the fascists.

[Old Codger]

69. This one agrees

I am a far piece from 23 and quite a piece past 63 also, Bernie is talking about everything that is important not only to our age group but to every single solitary age group from birth on.. all of us. I have been witness to the failing of this country and its mainstay moral and ethical standards and would love to have the chance to see it make the turnaround that can come with Bernies agenda...

I also would love to live long enough to see the first female president but that is secondary to what we need to have happen... So Bernie all the way

[Scruffy1]

81. As a member of the senior causcus

I honestly feel that it is insanity to keep doing the same old thing and expect different results. The third way has been the greatest disaster in my lifetime. Not only has it screwed the vast majority of the people, but has led to electoral disasters. When I listen to party leaders bemoan low turnout, I'm always thinking that they never gave anyone a reason to vote if your just Republican light, which means they hold your hand and smile while their screwing you. The Clinton and Obama era is over, we don't need more of the same.

[Thespian2]

82. Very frustrating

to hear the chatter praising the 1%er...but, then, I am an old fart...just a decade or so older than you...

[rhett o rick]

83. The bottom line is that we are seeing a movement, a Populist Movement to fight

against the billionaires Oligarchy. I suppose we should feel bad for those that are so afraid that they must seek the protection from the biggest bullies, the billionaire oligarchs. Those that can ignore how far we've fallen while the wealthy have gained.

We see sparks of this movement around the world where Peoples are fighting Neslies attempts to privatize People's water supplies or Chevron's attempts to see fracking to governments in spite of the People's protests. HRC is on the wrong side of this class war.

[liberal_at_heart]

84. Oh, we're monolithic alright. We refuse to accept cuts to SS, SSDI, or Medicare.

[Live and Learn]

96. Well, we are alike in some ways. I (at least like to) think we all believe the following:

We believe saving the environment is prudent.

We believe that an educated public is important and education should be easily attainable for all.

We believe that people have rights that include nutrition, shelter, health and education.

We believe that the limited wealth and resources of the world need to be shared and not hoarded by just a few.

We believe in equality and that discrimination is wrong in any form.

We believe in treating all creatures (including humans) humanely.

We believe in attempting peaceful solutions to differences whenever possible.

And we believe Democracy is worth saving and Citizens United needs to be overturned to keep our candidates from being bought.

[Cleita]

101. What's ironic is that Bernie would have been considered mainstream and moderate

when you were born. Even Eisenhower warned about the Military Industrial Complex rising when he left office or corporate dominance in our economy.

[Armstead]

102. Heck even when in I was in high school he would not have been considered out of mainstream

The latter 60's and the 70's upended a lot of political calculations...but the poitins of Sanders wold have still been considered within the broad center-left

[Cleita]

103. I keep wondering where we failed. We were in a good place in the Sixties. Sure we had a lot of

problems, the Vietnam war, racism, sexism and income inequality, etc., but we were on the path to fixing those things. We did fix much of it but dropped the ball on those things that had been accomplished enabling the emerging 1% we have today to snatch up the ball and run with it reversing all the good FDR and subsequent administrations accomplished in those forty years between the Great Depression and the emergence of Nixon, who started the whole decline into oligarchy.

[Armstead]

106. I have my own theories

The economy hit the skids in the 70's and people were hung over from the 60's, and teh nation took a conservative turn. Liberalism got blamed for a lot of things.

That was initially a natural swing of the pendulum that occurs periodically, However, big Corporations took advantage of it to make a power grab, and allied with the GOP to push Reaganomics and "supply side." And te country bought into it, even though t was against the interests of average people.

Unfortunately, the Democratic Party decided to capitulate, and joined the GOP in this push. They faild to defend "liberalism: and threw it under the bus. Thus the DNC/Third Way/Triangulation and Biill Clinton, who talked like a populist but governed like a conservative.

And as part of that, the Democrats joined the GOP in ignoring the systemic problems brewing below the glittery surface in the 90's, and kept tossing Liberalism under the bus, and instead echoed the corporatist conservative line.

Recently what is now called progressivisn -- but is really liberalism -- has been reasserting itself, through people like Bernie and Warren.

Obama partiallyy represented that as an aspiration, but due to the situation and the Third Way part of his beliefs, he could only go so far.

I see this election as a chance to reassert progressive liberalism, instead of reverting back to the 3rd Way bullshit.

[Cleita]

110. I agree. It's also going to take a lot of grass roots activism too. We have been doing something

like this in my community. We are fighting the oil companies that have done so much damage in our community and are now trying to bring in oil bomb trains with Alberta tar sands in them to our local refinery and fracking to get at the bakken crude or tar sands still under our ground. Our groups of middle aged, elderly women and a few retired men meet in each others homes to plan strategy. We have been attending city council and other agencies involved in conducting public meetings to stop the progression of this.

We protest outside the meetings peacefully with our home made signs, then the better speakers among us get up and make a statement before the boards and elected officials with as many facts as we can find. So far we have gotten resolutions to deny these things from happening, postponements, and one very dysfunctional city council to decline to approve or deny. We knew going in that approvals were in the works and now they are not. I think we broadsided the oil companies involved but fear that once they get off the ground, they will bring out their heavy guns to mow us down, but so far we have been winning in communities that are very conservative.

I think this can work across the board and across the nation. It seems like it's going to be the old women and men who are going to be the backbone of such movements, not the college students like back in the sixties. We can't rely on any media help or much from our elected officials until we make them listen. I have found the council and other officials to be quite interested in what we have to say and even surprised at some of the information we have presented them. We have been getting help from environmental organizations who have lately been sending experts to help us organize.

Keep your fingers crossed that we can get real change. It seems it is up to us. Even if Bernie is elected President, he is going to need us doing just what we are doing at a local level to bolster him in achieving his goals.

[merrily]

114. IMO, both the New Deal(s) and the Great Society reflected the fear of the PTB of revolution.

When the critical periods passed without revolution, the programs were dismantled. The rule is "plutonomy as usual;" the aberrations were the New Deal(s) and the Great Society. I don't see a steady progression.