Clinton Supporters: Should she follow Third Way's order to reject The Left and move to the Right?

[Armstead]

The Third Way has issued a warning and order for Clinton to reject the "economic populism of the left" and move back to pro-business "center" as they define it. I've got a simple -- policy and message oriented -- question, especially for supporters of Clinton, who has long ties to the Third Way conservative faction of the Democratic Party.

There have been several links to these articles on other OP's, with comments, so I won't repost here, except one excerpt. Two of the other threads are here, for more background:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251739481

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251739351

In essence, the Third Way is warning Clinton to reject the "left-wing populism" she has adopted in the primary, and go back to more conservative, business oriented policies. That means "pro-business, pro-growth policies" like we've had for 30 years. The main reason Americans are struggling is lack of training for the jobs of the 21st Century they say. It rejects the idea that business is culpable.

They also don't like the namby-pamby association with "victims" (and that could be considered code.)

“Economic populism,” Daley said, dwells too much on “either to blame, make somebody a victim, blame somebody who’s been successful or blame business, or blame the government.”


So I've got a simple question, especially to supporters of Clinton. Are you in favor of this call for Clinton to reject the "left wing populist tone" she has adopted recently, and return to the conservative mold of the Third Way?

[portlander23]

1. The real test

I don't think anyone takes her position on TPP seriously, so she may not have strayed that far from the Third Way blueprint. The real question is what exactly is her position on Social Security. She hasn't spoken about it in detail, but she's hinted that she's open to turning it into a means-tested program, effectively cutting it, while Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders have come out forcefully for expanding benefits.

A Trojan Horse In Clinton’s Pledge To “Enhance” Social Security?

Why It's Misleading to Swear to Protect the Poor's Social-Security Benefits

Supporting free trade agreements and attacking social insurance programs is at the heart of the Third Way platform. We'll know where Mrs. Clinton stands as soon as she comes clean on how she views social security.

[Armstead]

2. They also don't like regulation much

[Scuba]

4. Considering she's pals with Pete Peterson, I'm pretty sure I know where she stands on SS.

[portlander23]

6. Mayhap

A Trojan Horse In Clinton’s Pledge To “Enhance” Social Security?

What alarmed Social Security activists is that underneath Clinton’s positive language – “fully support,” “enhance” – appears to lie support for policies, including from leading conservatives like Pete Peterson – that would actually undermine Social Security.

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the House Ways and Means Committee chairman who is being wooed to take over as House speaker, was broadly attacked for proposing a plan that singled out Social Security’s “poorest recipients” for protection. Ryan proposed “progressive price indexing” that would reduce benefits for the top 70 percent of wage earners while maintaining benefits for the bottom 30 percent. When Ryan first proposed this in 2010, coupling this with a plan to divert Social Security funds into stock market accounts, the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities concluded that “the result would be a system in which Social Security is very unattractive to affluent people … These changes would risk undermining the broad-based support that Social Security now enjoys.”

Douglas Elmendorf, the former Congressional Budget Office director who will be dean of Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government, this week proposed a Social Security plan that was less radical than Ryan but along the lines of what Clinton seemingly would support. “I would not increase Social Security benefits across the board, as some have advocated, because I think scarce federal resources should be used in more targeted ways,” he wrote. “Instead, we should focus on reducing Social Security and Medicare benefits for high-income beneficiaries and raising payroll taxes on workers with high earnings.”

Elmendorf’s plan is a left-right hybrid. Progressive advocates for Social Security have argued in favor of lifting the cap – currently about $117,000 – on the amount of income subject to Social Security taxes. Some conservatives have questioned whether wealthy people should get the same retirement benefit as a retired low-wage worker, and several Republican presidential candidates have called for means-testing Social Security much like other assistance programs. Even Donald Trump, who has been outspoken in protecting Social Security benefits for working-class people, embraces cutting benefits for the wealthy. “I have friends that are worth hundreds of millions and billions of dollars and get Social Security. They don’t even know the check comes in,” he said at a New Hampshire forum earlier this week.

[Nitram]

37. This "Third Way" meme being pushed here is a Bernista political ploy.

When they aren't calling her a "corporatist" or a "Republican", it's this Third Way" shtick. Clinton is a liberal Democrat and a populist, and always has been.

[portlander23]

45. Sure

Third Way (think tank)

Third Way is a Washington, D.C.-based public policy think tank founded in 2005 by former staffers who worked in the Clinton administration. The think tank develops policy ideas, conducts public opinion research and hosts issue briefings. The organization has four policy divisions: Economics, National Security, Clean Energy, and Social Policy & Politics. Third Way develops and advocates for policies that it says represent the "vital center".

The board of the Third Way is made up almost entirely of investment bankers and other Wall Street executives.[4]

Mrs. Clinton has come out for means testing in education and social security benefits. She's offered token opposition to the TPP, though remains supportive of free trade agreements. She's taking tons of money from Wall Street interests and is opposed to breaking up the too big to fail banks.

These are literally her people.

[pinebox]

49. I beg to differ

Hillary isn't Elizabeth Warren.
Hillary's supporters are trying to rebrand her but the facts and history speak for themselves.
Remember, conservatives have populists too.

These are NOT populist or progressive positions.

[Armstead]

59. Then she shold repudiate them publicly

They hate populists.

But some of her policies and messages sound very close.
http://www.thirdway.org/report/ready-for-the-new-economy

Take, for example, a policy championed by Senator Bernie Sanders and others that is in danger of becoming a top progressive litmus test for Democrats—expanding Social Security benefits for all, regardless of income. The leading House version of this idea raises taxes on every working person and employer.19 It takes trillions of dollars from working age people and transfers it to the elderly—many of whom don’t need it. In fact, those who would get the greatest benefit net of new taxes are well-to-do suburban elderly couples.20 Meanwhile, this huge tax increase would do nothing to foster new investments in children, schools, research, or innovation—investments that have taken a back seat to entitlements.

[sabrina 1]

68. The Third Way is not a schtick. It's a Wall St Investors Think Tank whoch has attached itself

to the Dem Party.

YOU may not like the term but they are very proud of it and of the way they think the Dem Party should going regarding policies.

It's the DLC with a different name after the DLC began to become a bad word also.

Hillary's policies are definitely Third Way policies.

Facts are facts. You can research them, they are not hiding who they are or the fact they probably despise and hate the Left more than they hate the Right.

One of them attacked Elizabeth Warren in the WSJ a few months ago. They want no 'left' policies in the Democratic Party. They are afraid of the left which interferes with their privatization of everything plans for the Dem Party.

DWS is Third Way personified.

[AgingAmerican]

79. The Third Way® is a corporatist think tank

[frylock]

88. Because you say so.

[Betty Karlson]

3. This call will damage Clinton's chances.

Third Way is now so self-obsessed that they are throwing the kitchen sink at their preferred candidate.

[Scuba]

5. I really wish she was running as a Republican.

[daleanime]

40. It would be nice to have a sane republican to run against in the general.

[Cal33]

57. That's just the point, a sane Republican would never get past their Primaries. Only the nuts do.

[Armstead]

7. Do Clinton supporters have any thughts on this? I promise to behave

It would be interesting to know if thise who support Clinton agree with the Third Way on this. If any of you respond, I promise to behave and not engage in any flaming.

[TheKentuckian]

19. As always, they either don't give a flying fuck or would cheer gleefully

if she followed the "advice" because that is the fit with their shitty ideology.

As you see below they went to the well with "sexism" as they plan to for the next 8 years to defend any criticism aka "will the little lady follow orders".
Personally, I could care less if she is following orders or her own mind as it all spends the same to me.

[Nitram]

91. Wow, Kentucky, you sure have a lot of bile reserved for Democrats...

...who support a different democratic candidate than you do. Bitter, bitter, bitter!

[frylock]

89. Many of them deny the existence of the Third Way.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251740614#post32

[sufrommich]

8. Follow orders? Hillary's not a dog on a leash.

It's some guy giving his opinion,I'm pretty sure she's in a position in the democratic party that she doesn't have to "follow orders".

[Armstead]

9. It's not some guy on a blog

It is an organization that includes many of her major campaign figures and political allies.

[sufrommich]

13. I didn't say it was a guy on a blog. I'm sick of Sanders supporters

here constantly claiming that she doesn't have a mind of her own,that she's a helpless little puppet on a string,that she needs advisors because she isn't capable of thinking for herself. I don't recall Obama,Kerry or Gore getting this treatment,no one accused them of being of devious or my favorite "ambitious" like they do Clinton and they come from the same wing of the party. We get it,you all don't like her but this constant drumbeat that she doesn't have a mind of her own isn't haven't the effect you all think it does.

[Chan790]

23. Third Way wasn't making veiled threats behind closed doors to cut their campaigns off at the knees

...by telling those donors, funders and bundlers that have financed their campaigns to pull the plug if the candidate didn't abandon economic populism. In fact, none of them ever championed economic populism in the first place. You're raising a false complaint: "this is sexism because nobody ever asked the males that previously ran to stop doing something they weren't doing in the first place...but something Hillary is doing."

The question is a simple one. Refusing to answer it is moving the goal-posts.

The Third-Way, the people that pretty much made the Clintons, are telling Hillary to move rightward or fuck off and they'll kill her campaign. Should she comply?

(I'm not a Clinton supporter but I don't think she should...she has no chance of regaining many, possibly most, of those Democrats she's lost to Sanders if she does. Also, really who the fuck are these assholes...they may think they own her but she's the monster they made and she could crush them the fuck out if she felt so motivated. (Given, that means trampling Bill's legacy in the process.))

[sufrommich]

25. What "veiled threats behind closed doors"? Link to where this group

threatened to "kill her campaign".

[Armstead]

29. These arenlt her bosses. They are her allies

What really matters is not any threats to "kill the campaign."

More a matter of whether they are saying what she is thinking or not.

"Daley, predicting Clinton will win the nomination, cautioned, “We all get the fact that you’ve got to win a primary to get the nomination. “But as we all know, because we’ve seen it, there is some sort of imaginary line there, whether you are on the right or the left. If you cross that in the primary process, it is very difficult to get back to where the general election is, and that is in the middle."

Rather than threats. What is more the question is id the conversations behind closed doors is more like this: "Don't worry. Don't take my populism seriously I just have to do this to win the primary. Once we have that in the bag, I'm with you all the way."

Or not

[sufrommich]

31. So,in other words,you made that up. nt

[Armstead]

46. What? I asked a question. Do you think Hillary should agree with this or not?

Do you think Clinton agrees with Daily or not, and is just campaigning to "the left" in the primary but will rejct that and move to the "center" in the GE? Do you think she should campaign that way?

If you do, that's fine. But own it, and don't just get into "It doen't matter" word salad.

[Chan790]

50. I think hir thinks we're the same person...or ze had a reading comprehension fail. n/t

[GoneFishin]

82. "Don't worry. Don't take my populism seriously I just have to do this to win the primary..." Exactly

how I read her.

[Chan790]

48. sufro...

you may have missed this...but I'm kinda rich. These are the assholes that think they speak for me...they're not going to do it in articles or press-releases...they're doing it in rooms with major funders like my cousin that runs the family accounts and throws money at every Democratic primary campaign and PAC she can to make sure we're covered.

In fact, their exact words are not repeatable (both misogynistic and profane) but the gist was: "Really. Don't worry, we can rein (Hillary) in. If she doesn't fall in, we'll shut off the money and her candidacy will dry up."

What precisely do you think that means?

[Teagan]

30. Then good luck with the Clinton in the GE

Because I'm still writing in Bernie Sanders if he is not the nominee. I don't want anyone else, and I'm still voting for the downticket Democrats that won't get be able to get the coattails of Hillary Clinton.

[sufrommich]

33. I don't care what you're going to do.nt

[Teagan]

35. I do. I am just stating my preference.

Your statement was very clear: Clinton or be damned.

[leftofcool]

54. Go head.

If you think a write in will help your cause, no one is stopping you.

[Hoyt]

39. I agree completely. I also think she can get things done that Sanders can't.

For example, while Sanders will yell about single payer and get nowhere, Clinton can get a public option -- or something similar -- that moves us closer to single payer.

[Armstead]

47. The question is will she want to? Or will she try?

Or is she going to follow the advice of the Third Way allies and move to the :center" which also means "no single payer for you."

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/71/1053811/sweet-william-daley-warns-hillary-clinton-lean-back-center

It also rejects policies offered by Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., that would expand Social Security benefits and create a single-payer health care system, saying his policies would “divert money away from job-creating public investments – such as cancer research, bridge repair, and school construction.”

[Sivart]

61. ???

.......the difference between single payer and a public option is what.......???

[Hoyt]

69. Public Option gives people a chance to choose what will eventually become the single payer.

Going for broke on single payer will not pass anytime soon. Public Option might, giving government a chance to prove to the ignorant PO can do a better job in controlling cost and improving quality. Then, single payer is easier to pass, or just naturally evolve.

I'd give most of my rear end to become more like Denmark. If I thought Sanders could move us there, he'd be my candidate (I will support him if nominated, and all that). But waving his arms and saying what some people want to hear, just won't get us there. Think McGovern, Dukakis, Gore. Sorry, that's what I believe.

[Armstead]

70. She's got to want to. Does she?

[Hoyt]

71. Yes.

[Armstead]

72. I'll take yur word for it.

Haven't heard word one from her about it this campaign.

[bunnies]

107. Do you have a link for that?

Everything Ive seen is to the contrary.

[Hoyt]

108. Do you have a link?

[bunnies]

110. Yep.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/hillary-clinton-likes-oba_b_4881399.html

[Hoyt]

113. Sorry, do not see opposition to public option.

[bunnies]

116. Fair enough. That was single payer. My mistake.

I still havent seen anything re: her support of a public option.

[bunnies]

109. No. She does not.

Unless the evolved again.

Speaking to a closed-to-the-press meeting of the "HIMSS14" (Healthcare Information and Management Systems Conference 2014) in Orlando Florida on February 26th, she condemned the Canadian and other nations' single-payer healthcare systems by saying, "We don't have one size fits all; our country is quite diverse. What works in New York City won't work in Albuquerque." The presumption is that what works in Canada cannot work here, that local control must trump everything in order to fix what's wrong with American health care.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/hillary-clinton-likes-oba_b_4881399.html

[starroute]

73. I'm awfully tired of this "think McGovern, Dukakis, Gore" argument

None of them came across as strong personalities. Sanders does.

All of them were perceived as liberals at a time when the word had taken on overtones of ineffectuality and lack of backbone. That's not a box you can put Sanders in.

In addition, McGovern and Dukakis were both victims of a period during which the GOP Southern Strategy had fractured the old New Deal coalition and the Democrats were able to win presidential elections only by running southern governors who could pick up a few states. That's not true any more, and the Democrats now have a natural edge in the Electoral College as long as they don't blow it.

The Third Way argument that Democrats can only win elections by tacking to the right no longer holds true -- and the reign of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz suggests that's now become a recipe for failure.

So can we please shut up about what happened in 1972? That's as relevant today as it would have been to argue during the Kennedy-Nixon debates about why Charles Evans Hughes lost to Woodrow Wilson.

[Hoyt]

74. Truth hurts sometimes. Sanders does not exactly have a magnetic personality. In any event,

he won't win.

[starroute]

75. If Sanders has no personal magnetism, what's bringing in the crowds?

And you must have some really high-powered crystal ball to know what's going to happen a year from now and be confidently able to label that as "truth."

[frylock]

92. You know what they say about opinions.

[Hoyt]

99. Yep, and it goes both ways.

[kenfrequed]

93. That ignores three things

1) The only substantive thing that Hillary has put forth on improving health care is to get rid of the "Accord Tax" (I refuse to call it a cadillac tax). She has not yet, as far as I know, stated that she will pursue a public option to add on. You do not magically get a public option by not pursuing it.

This is the kind of talk that I was given back in 2009 when I was angry about the lack of a public option. I was told by people on this board that somehow by not asking for it we would somehow get it. It made no sense then and now it has been proven to not work.


2) Starting negotiations from Single Payer Universal is exactly how you get a public option. One of of the reasons that Obamacare never ended up getting the public option is because single payer was never discussed and because Max Bacchus and finance committee knocked the public option right off the table. You always walk into negotiations asking for a bit more than you are willing to settle for.


3) Sanders actually has a history of getting things done. He helped accomplish the largest increase in budget for VA hospitals in decades. Saying he can't get things done has been a talking point of Hillary supporters here for some time now and it is not rooted in reality.

[AgingAmerican]

101. The fact she refuses to take stands on issues

Refutes what you say. She refuses to take positions because doing so might upset those bankrolling her.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I left the church of my youth because of its paternalism only to find it on a "progressive" board.

Go figure !!!

[sufrommich]

14. It's ridiculous. I'm looking forward to it blowing up in their faces. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Down with the patriarchy!

That is true rallying call of progressives everywhere!

[2banon]

80. Back to the Question at Hand: Do you agree with that strategy or not?

what is your position on what she should do?

[Armstead]

16. I promised to behave so I'll just say.....

I am trying to get away from the surface to the meat of the subject, in terms of what type of policies and messages and influences in the WH people want.

The Third Way is an organization closely aligned with Clinton, and her backers. Therefore, what they say and do does have an effect. It is possible that Clinton will step away and honestly say "No I am not going to go along with you on this." Or she cold follow their advice and, as one of them said, reject populism in favor of pro-business pro growth policies and messages.

Has nothing to do with "paternalism."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. I eschew labels...

I eschew labels... But if you want to label me I am a socialist-capitalist. I want to use the profits capitalism creates to ameliorate social ills while preserving the incentives necessary to ensure all people are sufficiently motivated to give their best.

[Armstead]

36. Does it matter how those profits are made? Or where they go?

http://www.thirdway.org/report/ready-for-the-new-economy

Moreover, we show that the narrative of fairness has demonstrably failed to excite voters, with three consecutive losing performances with the middle class—leaving Democrats with the fewest number of officeholders since 1928.

They don't much like Obama's message of Hope and Change either. Too "populist."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. I want a regulated system with progressive taxation but I am not a leveler...

I want a regulated system with progressive taxation, where there is a level of living that no person can fall below, but I am not a leveler...

[Armstead]

51. I agree with that to a point

But a fairer system does not mean leveling. It means bot policies and public values (not everything is politics) that demands that corproations share their wealth more equitably wit their employees, and don'lt screw the public in the process. That means rather than use alk profits to feed a handful at the top -- and/or use it to spend on mergers to build monopolistic empires -- higger pay, support for American communities, etc.

[Armstead]

43. They don't much like you either

http://www.thirdway.org/newsroom/press-releases/third-way-centrist-leaders-warn-party-of-economic-populism-offer-alternative-democratic-agenda

“The left’s retro economic populism does not work substantively or politically and has cost Democrats the House and the Senate,” said Cowan. “To regain majorities and boost middle class prosperity, Democrats must move past populism and embrace a modern, pro-growth economic message and agenda. It’s time for Democrats to be Democrats, not Socialists.”

Daley continued: “I am concerned about where the Party is today. Democrats have lost the middle class in three consecutive elections by an average of 7 points and a combined margin of 20 million votes.

(Translation: Obama was too much of a populist socialist.)

[AgingAmerican]

103. She trembles in fear of the Third Way®

Hence her unwillingness to take a stance, even on no brainer issues. She fears upsetting them because many of the investment bankers controlling the think tank are financing her campaign.

[daleanime]

42. So you have no opinion on the subject?

[Armstead]

52. Hillllllary, Hillllllllllarie.....Rah Rah Rah

I think that's about it

[leftofcool]

10. Hillary is doing just fine.

Was I supposed to be outraged by a couple of articles?

[NCTraveler]

12. It works on them...

Therefore they think it will work on you.

They are missing something big that one of you posses and the other doesn't. Reason.

They truly think "Is the little lady going to follow orders" is a good way to start a discussion. The last couple of weeks have brought out a whole new level of desperation.

[Armstead]

20. You too are on the surface

God I am struggling to behave. Do agree with these statements? Forget names and candidates.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/71/1053811/sweet-william-daley-warns-hillary-clinton-lean-back-center

“Economic populism,” Daley said, dwells too much on “either to blame, make somebody a victim, blame somebody who’s been successful or blame business, or blame the government.”

There should be more things for Democrats to rally around than just be against the 1 percent. It’s a piece of but not the whole political/governmental puzzle that anyone who has to govern needs to solve.

New Democrat Movement Founder Elaine Kamarck, the godmother of Democratic centrism, also at the briefing noted, “Lets face it. The people we purport to be for don’t particularly like us. And we need to ask the question why . . . The traditional populist or left-wing responses of what to do about the economy, people know in their heart of hearts, they just don’t work.”

Daley, predicting Clinton will win the nomination, cautioned, “We all get the fact that you’ve got to win a primary to get the nomination. “But as we all know, because we’ve seen it, there is some sort of imaginary line there, whether you are on the right or the left. If you cross that in the primary process, it is very difficult to get back to where the general election is, and that is in the middle. Romney found that out. He really probably didn’t believe it ’til election day or the day after . . . You find that out, only too late.”

[NCTraveler]

22. "God I am struggling to behave."

I have no clue what that means and it sound very personal to you. Doesn't seem to be an issue for me in any way. I am sorry you are struggling.

"There should be more things for Democrats to rally around than just be against the 1 percent. It’s a piece of but not the whole political/governmental puzzle that anyone who has to govern needs to solve."

First off that line should start "There is more things for Democrats to rally around than just be against the one percent."

Something all of us and our candidates agree with.

[Armstead]

24. By "behave I meant trying to not get snarky

This whole Bernie Good Clinton Bad or Clinton Good Bernie Bad crap does not address what is truly involved in the election. It is what and who the candidates represent that is important.

"just rally around the one percent" means that criticisms of the current distribution of wealth and power is only a peripheral issue. They also say that the message of "fairness and equality" is not viable.

If you agree with that kind of thing, you are welcome to. But at least defend it beyond "Bernie supporters suck."

[NCTraveler]

27. Well placed and witty snark is great. Often very funny with a bit(a lot) of truth.

You and I aren't the best at it, others here excel and it adds a lot to the board. The rank amateurs such as you and I trying to pull off snark, not so much.


"just tally around the one percent" means that criticisms of the current distribution of wealth and power is only a peripheral issue. They also say that the message of "fairness and equality" is not viable."

It is not a "peripheral issue" and all of our candidates agree with me on that. Clinton, O'Malley, and Sanders are out there talking about it every single day. The exact opposite of what anyone could define as a peripheral issue. It is completely a peripheral issue in the republican campaigns. Every single day all three of our candidates show it is on the top of their list. Exactly opposite of what anyone could describe as a peripheral issue.

[cascadiance]

84. Many of us supporting Bernie perceive Hillary as mostly giving lip service to these issues...

... as we don't see constant and consistent stances for the people on these issues the way that Bernie has.

Hillary waited until right before the debate to make any kind of commital stance on the TPP, and didn't try to push hard against TPA passing (at least on the public airwaves as a potential president that would inherit the 6 year mandate of the TPA) like Bernie did at the time. There have mixed reports on whether she as a SOS who knew enough to discuss this deal with other country reps in that position, supported or was against it, when there are so many reasons if she was really principled in the right places she should have stood against it, like her husband should have vetoed NAFTA before it lead to a lot of job losses then, and the abrogation of our governmental sovereignty that the WTO gave us then, and that ISDS courts will do even more damage this time.

Bernie has spoken out against H-1B and H-2B Visa program and quota expansion pretty consistently. You recall that he explained his vote against an immigration bill in response to a question in our only debate so far, that it included a "guest labor" program rider in it that he couldn't support. I applauded when I heard that answer!

Hillary hasn't spoken on these guest labor programs for a long time to show that she's evolved in any way from her STRONG support of that program that works to devalue American workers and lose their jobs, and now forces them in to many contract job "placeholder" positions instead of permanent jobs until another congress can pass H-1B quota expansion to allow companies to get more cheap labor that doesn't have the right to vote or help organize unions which we in the tech sector never really have had the chance to organize when we first needed them after NAFTA passed and H-1B was started in the 90's.

There's a clear distinction on who is giving consistent and deep support for populist issues (that even Trump supports these two particular issues on the Republican side, albeit with more xenophobic overtones to it). We need more than lip service from other candidates to switch from supporting Bernie. We want to feel like we can trust someone to make the right changes, and not just give some nebulous "commitment" like Obama did in 2007 when he said he would "renegotiate NAFTA" (which we see was nebulous in an attempt to draw votes from those who would strongly oppose what he would later do with TPP and other free trade deals).

[NCTraveler]

87. Truly happy you have someone to support in the democratic field.

Sanders brings a lot to the brand and is doing a great job. Our top three are great!!!!!

[Armstead]

26. Do you agree with this?

They have a point about the effect of rapid transformations, But beyond that....

They re also criticizing Obama's Hope and Change message.

http://www.thirdway.org/report/ready-for-the-new-economy

we argue that the challenge facing the middle class is less about fundamental economic unfairness—but fundamental change due to globalization and technology coupled with a country, a workforce, and a set of institutions that are simply not ready for this new economy. Moreover, we show that the narrative of fairness has demonstrably failed to excite voters, with three consecutive losing performances with the middle class—leaving Democrats with the fewest number of officeholders since 1928. I

[artislife]

62. I wish you would get an answer to your main question

but no.

So that means what we think it means.

[Armstead]

21. Do you aree with this statement? Should this be the Democratic message?

Do you agree with this statement which sounds quite Republican to me

“Economic populism,” Daley said, dwells too much on “either to blame, make somebody a victim, blame somebody who’s been successful or blame business, or blame the government.”

[Armstead]

17. You are on the surface.

I am just asking if you agree with the Third Way and believe Hillary should follow their advice, and reject left wing populism and "the message of fairness which does not work."

[Teagan]

28. Clinton goes 'yes, master' and begins attacking Sanders from the right

The Third Way must not be disobeyed.

[redstateblues]

32. oooh- scary "Third Way"

is that the far left's illuminati?

[Armstead]

41. Watthefuckever

If that's the level of discussion you prefer to stick with, have your fun.

[artislife]

63. You know they are self proclaimed, right?

You know they were very transparent about it, right?

They just don't understand that there is a group of people who have tired of it and would like to shift to the left.

[2banon]

81. WTF? Third Way is RIGHT WING Conservative. Period.

Why should any liberal support Right Wing Conservative policy positions?

[frylock]

94. Does the illuminati have a website?

http://www.thirdway.org/

[leftofcool]

55. So, Hillary doesn't have a mind of her own, after all she is just a woman?

Pathetic!

[Teagan]

56. Um no, I didn't say anything at all about being a woman

You're assuming I'm playing the gender card. I'm not, sadly.

[cascadiance]

90. Warren has had a mind of her own as a woman too...

... and knows how to speak for the people instead of what the Third Way blesses and instead criticizes her for!

[frylock]

95. HILLARY 2016: SEXISM!!1

[kenfrequed]

96. Uhm...

You do realize she was one of the lead figures in the Third Way movement...right?

I mean, she was one of the people that forged that organizations politics from the get go. So in that way I am actually giving her a lot of credit for it.



Of course it is credit for being a founding member in a group that moves the democratic party to the corporate-friendly economic policy, but never mind that.


What is actually pathetic is trying to turn a statement about her engagement with this organization into a jab gender.

[stonecutter357]

34. you seem desperate!

[Armstead]

38. Yep. desperate to keep America from sliding backward

I suspect an actual discussion about issues and political messages is desperate in your eyes, So "Rah-rah, Go Hillary. Winning for the home team is all that matters."

[Autumn]

53. If she's elected she will anyway. Might as well do it now and be honest .

[ibegurpard]

58. you're not going to get an answer

They either don't want to talk about Hillary's ties to organizations that support policy like this or they themselves support policy like this and don't want to admit it on a board that skews against it.

[Armstead]

60. If they support it fine, I just wish they would just OWN their beliefs

People who have given thought to things, and believe in the Third Way message, are one thing. At least they have a basis forit. I disagree but that's horseracing.

But that's a whole lot different than "Hillary is so wonderful, so she has my support because she is so wonderful " and its close sibling "Bernie is bad because he is opposing Clinton."

[wilsonbooks]

64. Bingo.

[Broward]

65. Many of her supporters are right wingers anyway so I'm sure plenty would approve.

[sabrina 1]

66. I thought she had moved to the right. Didn't she just say she supports the Death Penalty?

[Armstead]

67. She wants a "review"

[CharlotteVale]

76. I never believed she moved from the right in the first place.

[Armstead]

102. She made some token gestures

[HassleCat]

77. Not a question of if, but when

She has to make the move no later than one day following the convention. It would be even better if incorporated into her acceptance speech. This is her party's strategy for winning elections. Although it usually fails for Democrats in general, it sometimes works for Democratic presidential candidates, and it certainly worked for her husband. If you think she will not make the move, think about this. A few weeks ago, Clinton called herself a populist. Does anyone really think she will march into the general election without "clarifying" that into oblivion? She's already demonstrated her eagerness to sprint to the right on foreign policy, and she's occupied the middle when it comes to legalizing pot and the death penalty. It's coming. Just a question of soon, really soon, or even sooner than anyone thought possible.

[AgingAmerican]

78. She will get no right wing votes

I don't understand the fetish the Democratic party apparatus has with right wing. All right wing has ever done is ruin, why would any sane Democrat seek that? I don't get it.

[2banon]

83. Quick skim through reveals Agreement with Right Wing Policy by her Supporters

I haven't seen any of her supporters express any concern or disagreement with her bait and switch strategy in support of her Third Way-Wall Street allies policy positions.

[brooklynite]

85. I'm happy with her mainstream center-left positions...

...and so are most of her supporters.

[Armstead]

98. Okay

I don't see them as center left, but we can agree to disagree

[MohRokTah]

86. ALL major party nominees move to the center after the primaries.

This is a given in national electoral politics.

[kenfrequed]

97. She was a founding member of the organization

They aren't really telling her anything that she isn't already planning on doing. She is a corporate leaning democrat and she will shift there the moment she gets into office.

[restorefreedom]

104. all these responses

and only 3 or 4 lukewarm posts of support "whatever she does is fine" kind of posts, and a number of "you are attacking hillary!!!!"posts. not One response from Hillary supporter discussing the substance of the topic and where she stands on this issue.

proof that very few of her supporters want to discuss the substance of the issues or are able or interested to defend her positions.

very illuminating.

[senz]

105. If she hopes to win the Primary, she'll keep up the pretense.

Shortly afterwards, she'll bounce back to the Right.

[LonePirate]

106. Yay! Just what we needed - more intraparty squabbling!

This always works out well!

[JI7]

111. more internet warrior nonsense

[Armstead]

112. How about a coherent answer if you think it's nonsense

It doesn't matter? You agree with them? You think Clinton should listen to them?

I asked a question in the OP. Tell me why it's nonsense.

[JI7]

114. who is them ? she also has support from Barbara lee and sherrod brown

[Armstead]

115. They are the heirs to the DLC which was the brain trust of the Clintons

They still have a lot of influence and want to dominate the Democratic Party. And they probably will if Hillary is elected.

And they do not like liberalism or progressive populism. They prefer business-friendly "pro-growth" policies, and say that the middle and working classes are not really hurting all that bad. And that the social safety net and "entitlements" like Social Security take money from what we really need, like investments to support Big Business.

If you think that is a good thing...Well, okay that's horseracing.

But it's not nonsense.

http://www.thirdway.org/report/ready-for-the-new-economy

[MisterP]

117. she should dump liberalism because she's liberalism's only hope at getting popular

or something

[Armstead]

118. or something