Analysis: Is Sanders Sexist, as Clinton Claims?

[portlander23]

Analysis: Is Sanders Sexist, as Clinton Claims?
PAUL HEINTZ
Seven Days

At the Iowa Democratic Party's Jefferson-Jackson dinner Saturday in Des Moines, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) drew headlines for "attacking" Clinton as a flip-flopper, saying — not so subtly — that he would "govern based on principle, not poll numbers."

But while Sanders' critique focused on Clinton's policy record — her support for the Iraq War, the Defense of Marriage Act and free trade agreements — the former secretary of state made it personal.

"I haven't been shouting, but sometimes when a woman speaks out, some people think it's shouting," Clinton said at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner.

Nice try, Hillary. In fact, Sanders has been employing that line for months, well before she began hitting him from the left on his mixed gun record. Speaking on CNN's "State of the Union" way back in July, Sanders said, "We have been yelling and screaming at each other about guns for decades with very little success." He's been repeating the point ever since.

Asked about Clinton's "shouting" remark Sunday on "State of the Union," Sanders was wise enough to laugh it off, telling moderator Jake Tapper that it's "just not the case" that he's sexist. But in an interview with Politico the next day, his senior strategist, Tad Devine, took Clinton's bait and seemed to threaten retribution if she kept it up.

No doubt that's Clinton's plan: Get under Sanders' skin, goad him into personally attacking her and then play the victim.

We've seen this movie before.

Related:

Emily’s List Official Accuses Bernie Sanders Team of Sexism

Thom Hartmann to Hillary Clinton: Challenge Bernie Sanders on Real Issues

Thom Hartmann: Clinton lied to Rachel Maddow on DOMA and played "poor me victim" on "shouting"

Hillary Clinton Falsely Calls Bernie Sanders a Sexist

[NCTraveler]

1. Is this the comment this dust up is all about?

"I haven't been shouting, but sometimes when a woman speaks out, some people think it's shouting," Clinton said at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner.

[HerbChestnut]

17. That's the one.

[NCTraveler]

19. I shouldn't be laughing. Well, yes I should.

I thought with all of this she actually called Sanders sexist. People are jumping all over themselves to claim they have been called a sexist by Hillary.

[HerbChestnut]

21. It was implied. Pretty clearly.

[NCTraveler]

25. lol. I thought there was so much more to it.

I have never seen a group stumble all over themselves in hopes a Presidential candidate might have implied Sanders is sexist.

[frylock]

36. Tell that to Hillary's most ardent supporters here who have been making that very claim.

[NCTraveler]

37. I appreciate the honesty that it is about "supporters," not Clinton.

I'm a supporter.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=738789

[portlander23]

46. Oh it's about Mrs. Clinton

She did attack Mr. Sanders as a sexist, no one serious is arguing otherwise.

It seems that supporters fall into two categories, those that agree Mr. Sanders is sexist, and those who want to parse her words and say that slur didn't happen.

Either way, the campaign will have to deal with the backlash just like they had to in 2008 when the campaign used racist undertones against Mr. Obama.

[NCTraveler]

48. That is what it is about to you. Please read the comments fo the person I replied to.

I really don't need to communicate with people who believe when someone calls condescending comments condescending, then it is time to make it something it isn't for kicks. The comments were condescending and everyone agrees. EL called them condescending. Thank for stirring.

[tammywammy]

35. People are getting really riled up over nothing

This is a very tame primary, so I think some are latching on to what's at best a mild "attack" and blowing them out of proportion. And this is for supporters of both Clinton and Sanders.

[NCTraveler]

38. I agree, including the both sides arguement.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=738789

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251739359#post46

[MohRokTah]

2. Hillary never made that claim. Saying so is a blatant lie. eom

[HerbChestnut]

16. "When a woman speaks out, some people think it's shouting."

The implication is obvious.

[MohRokTah]

18. She stated a simple fact.

There was no accusation of sexism whatsoever in that statement.

[HerbChestnut]

20. Sure thing, Moh.

[tex-wyo-dem]

64. Yeah, whatever you think...

I agree that the implication is very obvious and she's trying to make it about personal attacks and personality.

And I agree with the OP that Clinton's strategy is to get under Sanders' skin and force him into going personal.

She's not interested in debating how her policy proposals or her opinions on the issues differs from Sanders, because she's co-opted many of Sanders positions anyway to try to draw his supporters away from him. If she were to state her true positions, she'd lose the progressives and likely get dusted.

If she keeps actually talking about those co-opted opinions, she could get herself in trouble since 1) she doesn't believe what she's saying and 2) she has no intention of carrying through with those Sanders co-opted positions.

In other words, she faking her populist/progressive cred. As soon as she wins the nomination and presidency, it's back to the same old neo-liberal third wayer approach that has contributed to the destruction of the middle class.

[NCTraveler]

26. Have you ever seen a group fight so hard to claim a candidate called their candidate a sexist.

I seem to remember some of their posts recently where they were disgusted over perceptions of the victim card. Yet here they are. Fighting to prove their guy was called something he wasn't.

[AgingAmerican]

54. Have you ever seen a group fight so hard to claim a candidate is a sexist?

nt

[NCTraveler]

58. Agree and have said so. There are a small group of them. That's for sure. nt.

[NorthCarolina]

40. That is very disingenuous of you. She cast the aspersion and everyone knows it.

It backfired. Rather than deny the truth, just admit it was a political tactic that went beyond the pale. Honesty is always the best policy IMO.

[MohRokTah]

41. No, she didn't.

She made a simple statement of fact and people inferred what they wished to infer.

It says more about the people drawing conclusions from the simple statement of fact than it does of Hillary. Methinks they dost protest too much.

[NorthCarolina]

42. OK,

continue to deny the truth if that's your political stripe.

[MohRokTah]

44. I'm not the one denying the truth. eom

[AgingAmerican]

55. Her supporters keep making OPs about it

[MohRokTah]

57. While Sanders supporters continue to spread the lie that she called him a sexist.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

[AgingAmerican]

62. Her supporters keep making OPs claiming so

This whole thing comes from Hillary's camp.

[MADem]

67. Most of the whining I've seen has been coming from the other camp.

For example, which side started THIS thread?

Hillary never called Sanders a sexist--and anyone who insists that she did is not being truthful.

[AgingAmerican]

68. She insinuated it

Her supporters ran with it
It blew up in her/their faces
Her supporters feverishly backpedal
Hilarity ensues!

[MADem]

70. No, she commented on a remark that was directed right at her, in her presence.

There was no insinuation. She came right out and confronted the whole "shouting" thing that was aimed right at her (ironically, by a guy who has cornered the market on shouting, while telling everyone else to stop doing it).

The rest of your analysis is accurate though.

I think women have had it with the admonition that they "tone it down" and "be ladylike."

Words do matter. It's never too early -- or late-- to get a lesson in optics.

[AgingAmerican]

71. And the crowd goes wild!

[Politicalboi]

47. Hillary and honesty don't mix

Hillary Victim Clinton.

[prayin4rain]

50. Yep, keep smearing our candidates until Trump is in the whitehouse. n/t

[AgingAmerican]

52. Yet her supporters are running with it anyway

nt

[MineralMan]

3. So, please show me where Hillary Clinton said that Sanders

is sexist. Not others who are not her. Hillary. I'll wait right here.

[portlander23]

5. Sure

Some people say I'm posting things that aren't true, but sometimes when a Mainer posts things online, people think it sounds untrue.

[MineralMan]

8. I'm still waiting...

Where and when did Hillary Clinton say that Sanders was sexist? Perhaps you are incorrect in your statement. All of the Mainers I know are very straightforward with their statements.

[portlander23]

10. I'm just saying you're being dishonest :)

But please, assert your reasonable statement again for the record.

[NCTraveler]

28. You don't get it. Being able to properly communicate with you isn't working as it's regional.

One of the best ones I have seen yet.

[99Forever]

30. Oh lookie lookie!

It's the classic Clintonesque "that depends on what the definition of is, is."

I'm sure no one can see through that bullshit.

[Autumn]

4. Anything a Bernie supporter says or does is laid on Bernie. So I'm gonna K&R this.

Cause turnabout is fair play.

[KittyWampus]

7. Nice to see the reasoning of 5-year olds on DU.

Makes this place so much more enlightening.

[Autumn]

13. Seems to be contagious

[bigtree]

6. she never said he was sexist

...but she did poke fun at his comment about 'shouting' which rang true with many women, including my wife.

Look, the only person who invited Sanders to view it as an accusation of sexism was the questioner he responded to in that interview. If his campaign is stupid enough to inflate it into that, then let's have that discussion about the different ways women are characterized, have been characterized, for speaking out on issues.

His complaint about 'shouting at each other' is ignorant, without Hillary saying a word in defense. There's one side blocking meaningful gun safety reform with phony arguments about hunters and target shooting, and the other side which is trying to get a reign on the massive proliferation of guns and the resulting violence. We should all be shouting for the gun lobby and their toadies in Congress to focus on something other than their sweet selves and stand out of the way of meaningful reforms.

[Armstead]

23. Not just "poking fun" It was Rovian slime

A time honored technique of smear politics. Put it out there that sanders is a sexist....but don't put it out there in a way that can be traced back to you. "Who me? I never implied that he is a sexist. I was just talking in general."

But it implants the idea that Sanders is sexist and doesn't know how to talk to women.

Classic Bullshit politics of deflection.

P.S, What does the gun issue you referred to have to do with gender politics and sexism? Why did she even bring that into it?

[bigtree]

31. no, it wasn't

...ridiculous to portray Sanders as some victim of the joke, not if you're giving his politicking remark a free pass.

[BooScout]

9. Clinton never made that claim....

But those in the know like.....well women....and Emily's List know sexism when they see it. ...so the Sanders Campaign has been called on it.

[AgingAmerican]

56. Then why all the OPs from her supporters saying it happened?

[azmom]

11. Sanders is not a sexist.

Hillary played the sexism card without merit.

[peacebird]

12. Yes, kind of a repeat of her 08 smears of Obama

[bvf]

15. Of course he isn't.

Yet it's entertaining to see some Clinton supporters around here squirm and writhe rather than admit witness to an undeniable implication when confronted with one.

I'm not calling them stupid. They're on their own to figure that one out.

[still_one]

14. Hillary never made that claim. That is the MSM, and some supporters reading something that isn't

there. It is a gross distortion at the very least.

As far as the Emily's list comment, it also never accused Bernie of being sexist, but accused some on the Sander's team by suggesting that Hillary could be VP to Sanders, implication, second banana.

Both are perfect incidences of petty politics, without much substance, which the MSM of course loves.

The Hartmann links, represent just a committed Sander's supporter, which is Thom Hartmann, again extrapolating it into something it isn't. That is just politics.

The last link is the same inference, reading more into the "shouting" statement then what it is.

Except among the committed supporters on each respective side, this will amount to nothing.

The real mud slinging has not even occurred yet for Bernie. For Hillary, the MSM, republicans, and others have been doing it for some time.

[Armstead]

22. It is petty politics. And Clinton initiated it.

She was discussing guns. But she had ti throw in a gratuitous line about "I was told to stop shouting. But I'm not shouting. Itl;s just some men think women are shouting when women take a position. (only slightly paraphrased.)

She could have gone on all day without saying that. Ab it was not a spontaneous throwaway line. She said the exact thing twice.

She is not stupid. She knew exactly what she was saying, and what it wold do. She was trying to nasty up the campaign,to lower the discourse so she can engaged in personalized politics.

[still_one]

32. At worst it was a very mild implication, with the "charge that women have to shout to be heard", and

Bernie wasn't listening. I get it. It was also said in a humorous or sarcastic manner, similar to what I think Ted Devine said about Hillary being Bernie's VP.

To me this is just background noise. Some respective Hillary and Bernie supporters may have their Panties in a twist, (wonder if that is a sexist statement?), but in the long term I don't see it as amounting to anything. Everyone knows Bernie is NOT a sexist.

I have no doubt that much worse mud slinging will come down the road on both candidates, and not from their campaigns, and it will be far more vulgar and disgusting than this.

[Armstead]

33. Its trivial but it sets up a personal context, so it isn't

It sets up in the media narrative that Sanders is sexist. It was not a factor, and no one was raising that as a negatuve about him.

But Hillary did in a deliberate manner.

Hillary thus added needless static to the background noise.

[Evergreen Emerald]

24. Give Hillary the same deference regarding racism as you do Sanders regarding sexism

the double standards are obvious

[ladjf]

27. Bunk. nt

[HassleCat]

29. I hate to see the rush toward victimhood

I'm not a big Clinton fan, but I thought she was above that, particularly since she just has to wait for the nomination to be dropped in her lap. Sanders could hint Clinton is guilty of "age-ism" because she made some comment about arm waving.

[guillaumeb]

34. HRC is a lawyer, a good lawyer. She know how to use words to make a point.

When she said,

I haven't been shouting, but sometimes when a woman speaks out, some people think it's shouting," Clinton said at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner.

she did not directly accuse Bernie Sanders of being a sexist. But the accusation is implied by her response. When she framed the issue as "but sometimes when a woman speaks out", the key phrase is "a woman", not "some people think it's shouting".

That way she can deny that any implication of sexism is contained in the sentence while making certain that the audience gets her meaning.

[frylock]

45. Her supporters think we're stupid.

[guillaumeb]

53. Obvious and agreed. And sad, that debate is replaced by name-calling.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

60. Before the primary, I thought I could vote for her.

If it was the choice between her and a Republican. At this point it almost doesn't matter who wins the primary. I don't want to be in the same country as her DU supporters, much less in the same Party. DU is where solidarity goes to die.

[frylock]

61. It became obvious after 2008 that the only thing many of us had in common..

was a shared hatred of Bushco. For many, the policies were fine depending on who was implementing them.

[bigwillq]

39. No (nt)

[prayin4rain]

43. Answer: Clinton never claimed that Sanders is sexist, but stoking the in-fighting of Democrats is

just TOO easy!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. No. I'm surprised that anyone thinks he is.

[gwheezie]

51. Well its a true statement

I don't know if it applies to Bernie but how many times have people complained Hillary is shrill, or not lady like, or her laugh gets on their nerves etc.
I'm female. I can't tell you how many times I've been called rude or arrogant when I'm miss congeniality at work. I tried moderating my tone but a few decades ago I figured out people were purposely trying to deflate what I was saying by focusing on how I was saying it.
And Bernie does shout at everyone eventually, which is why I thought when he claimed other people were shouting it amused me.
Yes, people acuse women of shouting when we are just making a point. It's getting tiresome. Also even if we are shouting, are we not allowed to? And when the person complaining about shouting is a chronic shouter, isn't that ironic.

[Vinca]

59. I've been following Bernie for decades and guarantee there isn't a sexist bone in his body.

This is the "I'm a poor, poor woman" card and it's disgusting.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

69. Clinton is running a really lame campaign

pathetic

[sadoldgirl]

63. No, he is not, but

Clinton's clever remark was a clear hint in that direction.

I see this again as HRC running on her womanhood, which
I as a woman do not welcome at all. She started on this
road before she declared even.

It is unimportant as far as we are supposed to vote the
best person into any office. She has to realize that a lot
of women are offended by this attitude, possibly more
than she thinks.

[Tipperary]

65. No.

I like Hillary and wish this was not happening. It's ugly.

[senz]

66. He's not capable of sexism.

His primary opponent plays the gender card shamelessly -- to the point of embarrassment, for the rest of us.

[MisterP]

72. under the new Orwellian rules anyone with a Devil's Joystick is culturally sexist