Hillary is the ultimate hawk

[jfern]

A good but scary read. Do you want to vote for war?

Cliff notes:

Libya: We came, we saw, he died

Syria: Hillary was too warmongery for Obama. But not for Richard Armitrage, Bush Deputy Sec. of State who said "Secretary Clinton has dramatically changed the face of U.S. foreign policy globally for the good. But I wish she had been unleashed more by the White House."

Afghanistan: supported a failed surge

Arms deals: Approved $165 billion, a 143% increase from Bush

Closer connections between State and Defense to make State more involved with wars

Saved the inhumane cluster bombs

Claimed that there was an Iraq Al Qaeda connection when voting for Iraq.

Pro-torture

Pals with Kissinger

And more

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/30/1442802/-Make-no-mistake-A-vote-for-Hillary-is-a-vote-for-war

[akbacchus_BC]

1. Well, Mr. Sanders does not seem to get your vote, so your best bet is

to support Mrs Clinton unless you want another republican in office. I like Mr. Sanders but Mrs. Clinton seems inevitable as the nominee!

[tecelote]

2. The status quo has to end. The killing has to end.

How can we justify the killing? How can you justify a vote to continue the "collateral damage" our wars cause?

Bernie or Martin are not perfect but way better than Hillary or any Republican.

“We live in a difficult and dangerous world, and there are no easy or magical solutions. As President and Commander-in-Chief, I will defend this nation, its people, and America’s vital strategic interests, but I will do it responsibly. America must defend freedom at home and abroad, but we must seek diplomatic solutions before resorting to military action. While force must always be an option, war must be a last resort, not the first option." - Bernie Sanders

Why is the media so pro-Hillary? Because she will keep the spigot turned on full force. War profiteering will not suffer under a Hillary Presidency.

It's a sin.

How can you justify the killing and vote to continue killing?

[reddread]

4. how?

see post #3

theyre just murderers on a global scale.

[stonecutter357]

3. right wing trope.

[Fumesucker]

5. Calling someone a warhawk is *praise* in the wingosphere

[artislife]

15. This is actually true though

Another example when h gives the RW their ammo.

We don't care if the RW approves or disapproves, we know where we stand on the issues.

[bigwillq]

6. Yea, she's pretty terrible.

No more Clinton. No more Bush.

[willvotesdem]

7. Her glee over the killing of Gaddafi leaves me shocked and saddened.

Unfortunately I will not be able to vote for her in the general if she is our candidate. I will instead "write-in" a protest vote or leave the president blank.. Oh yeah I'm in a swing state too, FL.

[BlueCaliDem]

18. "I will not be able to vote for her in the general if she is our candidate"

Screen name: "Will Votes Dem".

Maybe you should reconsider your screen name because, by your own words in your post, " I will instead "write-in" a protest vote or leave the president blank.. Oh yeah I'm in a swing state too, FL." you'd rather write in a protest vote or leave it blank, so no. You don't vote Dem., especially in a critical must-win State in a critical presidential election.

[Fred Sanders]

20. I think anyone saying they will not vote Democratic if Sanders is not the nominee is not a Democrat.

[BlueCaliDem]

23. I am now convinced that IS the case, FS. eom

[Fred Sanders]

24. And I think this is the case:

[BlueCaliDem]

27. The "horseshoe theory" in American politics.

The horseshoe theory in political science stipulates that the far-left and far-right are more similar to each other in essentials than either are to the political center.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

[Fred Sanders]

28. Good theory....explains a few happenings on DU and Sanders courting of the far right.

[GoneFishin]

31. Yeah. Allowing banks to run amok and stopping banks from running amok are exactly the same goal.

[NanceGreggs]

51. Well, that seems pretty damned obvious now ...

... doesn't it?

[BlueCaliDem]

35. 7 posts and already telling longtime DUers what to do?

What unmitigated BALLS.

BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Fred Sanders]

54. Yeah, sure, new poster....we all believe you! Libya did it for you? Made me laugh!

[JaneyVee]

8. Can we stop pretending Bernie is going to end wars.

This is yet another area where the myth of Bernie doesn't match the reality of Bernie. He voted for HR Res 64, voted for Afghanistan, voted for Kosovo and Somalia, voted for sanctions, voted to fund every war, voted for more military spending, said he supports more troops in the mid east, and keep using drones. He also voted against closing GITMO and doubles down on courting makers of weapons of mass destruction in his state i.e. F-35 and Sandia.

[Vattel]

10. Nobody is pretending that. It is a fantasy in your own head.

[TheKentuckian]

13. They are pressing the weird fallacy that any and all military actions are exactly the same

Apparently, WWII = Vietnam = Kosovo = Iraq = Afpak = Anything future or past because...uhmm...something nonsensical.

[BlueCaliDem]

21. No. "They" are pressing the issue that Sanders is NO anti-war politician,

and that he's a warhawk, no different than Hillary Clinton or any other presidential candidate. I.O.W., "they" are trying to keep it real on a site where too many of its members are in La-La-Land when it comes to Senator Sanders.

[GoneFishin]

29. Is today the day they shift from "Bernie is a sexist" to "Bernie is a warhawk"?

I didn't get the memo.

[BlueCaliDem]

30. Don't know, GoneFishin. I'm just stating the facts and keepin' it real. eom

[TheKentuckian]

40. Right on que with the same tortured bullshit.

[BlueCaliDem]

42. Yes, you are, TK.

[beam me up scottie]

46. No, a warhawk is someone who laughs at the thought of war with Iran:

[GoneFishin]

26. For the 0.1% who supply the munitions and other billion$ and billion$ of military gear

they are exactly the same.

[jfern]

44. He's not a peacenik, but he only supports war as a last resort

Hillary always supports war.

[Vattel]

9. Great read.

I don't want a hawk like Clinton to be the CIC. She doesn't get it. She doesn't really comprehend that the rights of innocent bystanders are huge moral obstacles to the pursuit of war.

Our incredible military strength is a wonderful deterrent to military aggression towards us. That is its primary function: to prevent violence. Clinton is far too quick to use it in a violent fashion for things like regime change, or for addressing potential threats rather than immediate threats. Like far too many Americans, she is too willing to accept the death of innocent bystanders for the sake of highly speculative benefits.

[Fred Sanders]

11. These are the kind of speculative future-gazings one does when your candidate is so far behind.

[99Forever]

14. "The past is prolog."

Just who the fuck do you think you are fooling?

[Fred Sanders]

16. I get it that Clinton is occupying space closer to Sanders and taking away much of his appeal.

But that is not a bad thing for the Democratic Party.....bad for Bernie and capturing the nomination, no doubt - but if he was ever in his own heart serious about being President and not just running to move Clinton and the Democraric Party he just now joined to the left, he might be secretly pleased.

Which is after all is said and done and a distinctly more open leftist is occupying the WH, it is all not a bad thing at all what Sanders has accomplished.....I will give him a lot of the credit for that.

[99Forever]

17. I don't know what the hell you are even talking about.

It reminds me of Sarah Palin's word salads.

[Fred Sanders]

19. And that comment reminds me of Trump!

[99Forever]

22. Whatever dude.

I love the smell of neoliberal desperation in the morning.

[TheKentuckian]

12. I wouldn't say the ultimate that goes to John McShame who even manage to rattle his rusty old saber

at Spain randomly in the 2008 cycle and even Joe Scum Scarborough had to admit the crazy fucker made Dick Cheney look like Mother Theresa in a rare bout of truthfulness but yeah she is in that next tier with the likes of Darth, Condi, Rummy, Petraeus, and possibly the lower profile Susan Rice who I don't trust either.

[treestar]

25. No, that term might describe McCain

You are using it to mean supports any war any where at any time. Equally as unreasonable as the right wingers who support any war any where any time.

[Baitball Blogger]

32. Republicans think that the only way to gain respect Internationally is through warring.

They think that Obama is weak because we're not engaging in war every time a leader from another country begins mouthing off. They think Putin right now, does not respect us and that Obama should retaliate with some force of strength.

I really didn't realize how ready Republicans are to sacrifice our youth, just because they can't stand the heat.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. Correction --> Libya: "We came, we saw, he died." *Giggle*, *Giggle*, *Giggle* Which makes the

remark even more disgusting. NOTHING IN WAR IS FUNNY!

She's a warmonger.

A vote for Hillary, is a vote for ENDLESS WAR.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[FarPoint]

37. I think Hillary will soar....

Like an Eagle.

[cantbeserious]

38. The Zeal To Elect A Female President Has Become The War Hawks Wet Dream

eom

[antigop]

39. start sending out this link

http://www.goarmy.com/learn.html

[Persondem]

41. This thread is the ultimate hyperbole

Not sure why getting rid of Kaddafi was a bad thing at the time. At least it gave the Libyans a chance at self determination.

And I'll bet if you asked most Syrians who are not Assad supporters if they wanted a more forceful US intervention they would say yes. Imagine if that conflict had been ended 2-3 years ago with Assad gone, before Hezbollah and IS got involved.

Calling her pro-torture is pure hyperbole as well. She said in certain time dependent situations perhaps it should be a consideration.

The surge in Afghanistan did rather well and has given the Afghans a chance for a decent life.

Exaggeration, Monday morning quarterbacking and crystal ball bullshit really do nothing to make your case. The world is a complicated place but you make every decision sound like its some easy choice between right and wrong with perfect knowledge of all possible outcomes.

How many life and death decisions have you ever had to make in the moment, in your life??

[beam me up scottie]

48. Monday morning quarterbacking?

More like a coach warning the team the night before the biggest game of the year:

[Persondem]

49. You obviously don't get what I was saying. Nevermind. nt

[sabrina 1]

43. Apparently nearly everyone posting on this forum at the time of the Iraq vote, was smarter than

Hillary. we KNEW Bush/Cheney were lying.

I want a leader who is smarter than the average American.

Smart members of Congress knew they were lying and voted against giving those liars the power to do the awful damage they did to so many human lives.

[olddots]

45. Hillay would sell out anyone who votes for her

and those that vote for her would sell out anyone they know .If this annoys you it is meant to .

[jfern]

47. True that

I actually voted for her in the 2000 Senate primary and general election. I guess my vote was a vote for the Iraq war. Ugh. Not making that mistake again.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

50. KnR! n/t