2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe DNC establishment is going to escort Bernie to NH SOS on Thursday to get his name on the ballot.
You know that nasty arm of Hillary Clintons campaign??
You would never know it looking at this thread that caused a mini uproar:
Raymond Buckley @ChairmanBuckley
Constitution is clear. I'm escorting @BernieSanders to his filing & I'll go directly to court if needed.
#nhpolitics https://twitter.com/JamesPindell/status/661638882006560768 …
4:47 PM - 3 Nov 2015
But lo and behold, Raymond Buckley is this person (about establishment as you can get):
He is a member of the New Hampshire delegation to the Democratic National Committee,[1] and served as the chairman of the eastern region of the Democratic National Committee from 2001 to 2009.[2] He has also been director of the NH Democratic Senate Caucus,[3] and from 1998 to 2007 served as the City Democratic Chair for Manchester.[4] As of March 25, 2007 he is the state chair of the New Hampshire Democratic Party.[5] Buckley was reelected state chair in 2009, 2011 and 2013.
Buckley served 8 terms (1986–2004) as a member of the New Hampshire House of Representatives where he represented southern Manchester, and served as Party Whip in that body.[6] He was a delegate to the Democratic National Convention from New Hampshire in 1988, 1996, 2000, 2004 and 2008.[7] He served as the vice chair of the New Hampshire Democratic Party from 1999 to March 2007, when he was elected as chair.[8]
Can we give it a rest in castigating Hillary over this complete made up smear? The simplest of research will put to bed this nonsense.
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riversedge
(70,174 posts)
BlueMTexpat
(15,365 posts)
boston bean
(36,220 posts)
retrowire
(10,345 posts)and we're supposed to forget and forgive the known concrete connections between Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Hillary?
nope.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)what's that got to do with Hillary and DWS?
boston bean
(36,220 posts)He is a vice chair of the Democratic National Committee. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is the Chair of the Democratic National Committee.
Now you can explain to me, what Hillary has to do with this. She isn't Bernie's campaign manager or legal counsel.
This guy still isn't DWS.
DWS worked for Hillary in prior campaigns.
DWS and no other in the DNC has sole control over the debate formats.
Again, the vice chairman doing his job has nothing to do with the buddy buddy relationship between Hillary and that guys BOSS DWS.
So again, him doing his job has nothing to do with DWS' control of the DNC and the strings that she alone pulls.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)If the DNC didn't want Bernie on the ballot, there would be more than conspiracy theories to prop that BS up.
You have not on iota of fact that Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Hillary are in cahoots to keep Bernie off the NH ballot.
You have some nice conspiracy theories, but the fact remains the DNC is working with him to get him on the ballot.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)I don't know anyone that said Hillary and DWS are actively trying to keep Bernie off the new Hampshire ballot. not sure where you got that from.
what I am familiar with is Debbie's control over the debates to keep Hillary protected from all other candidates.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)between the NH and National DNC.
Here's the first sentence in the body of your OP:
And the last sentence in the body of your OP:
You invite conversation on the Hillary and DNC connection and when it doesn't go your way you complain. Seems to be standard procedure lately.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)lol
aspirant
(3,533 posts)why HRC DU'ers say Bernie isn't a Dem?
boston bean
(36,220 posts)Bernie will tell you this himself.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)and stop escorting and backing him to state Dem offices with DNC executives.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)and I like it.
Everyone here can protest all day "oh he's not a democrat!" but if the real democratic party has already accepted him this far maybe everyone else should just sit down about that.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)even a Socialist Democrat
I want to hear HIM say it!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)just like the DEMOCRATIC Progressives or the DEMOCRATIC Conservatives or the DEMOCRATIC Corporatists or the DEMOCRATIC Wall Streeters or the DEMOCRATIC Third Wayers, big tent, right?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)As have been shown time and time again...
http://www.dsausa.org/
Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system, involving a combination of political democracy (usually multi-party representative democracy) with social ownership of the means of production. Although sometimes used synonymously with "socialism", the adjective "democratic" is sometimes added to distinguish itself from other models of socialism which democratic socialists perceive to be undemocratic.[1]
Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
which is a SOCIALIST that believes in elections.....
There ARE however Socialist DEMOCRATS....but Bernie doesn't call himself one of those does he?
Here he is telling you he is NOT a Democrat
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251755419
aspirant
(3,533 posts)just like Third Way Repubs are considered Dems
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)what do you have against definitions?
Here is how THEY describe themselves..
Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system, involving a combination of political democracy (usually multi-party representative democracy) with social ownership of the means of production. Although sometimes used synonymously with "socialism", the adjective "democratic" is sometimes added to distinguish itself from other models of socialism which democratic socialists perceive to be undemocratic.[1]
Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
aspirant
(3,533 posts)can't run as a USA Democrat?
...and if you feel he cannot, then kick him off the Dem debates and Dem Ballots.
Simple, isn't it.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)it has nothing to do with that....
He is not a Democrat....doesn't have to be one to run on the Democratic ticket....he could be challenged on EVERY state ballot that requires the Democrats be registered....I know of at least 5 states that have that.....
he isn't a Democrat...
he "Simply" isnt
aspirant
(3,533 posts)can run on the Dem Ticket, that is not my Dem Party
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)social democracy
Tweet noun
: a political movement that uses principles of democracy to change a capitalist country to a socialist one
: a country that uses both capitalist and socialist practices
Take a 2-minute break! See if
you can Name That Thing »
Full Definition of SOCIAL DEMOCRACY
1
: a political movement advocating a gradual and peaceful transition from capitalism to socialism by democratic means
2
: a democratic welfare state that incorporates both capitalist and socialist practices
— social democrat noun
— social democratic adjective
See social democracy defined for English-language learners
Socialist do not believe in Capitalism AT ALL....quite the opposite....including those that like Elected Government like "Democratic" (adjective not noun) Socialist
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Democratic Socialist is NOT the same thing as a Socialist Democrat
Europe and the Netherlands are NOT Democratic Socialist states....they are Social Democracies.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)You're defining the big tent.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)they get a little pissy if you call them Democratic Socialist....BECAUSE they are Socialist Democrats!
Bernie is the former not the later.....he is simply a Socialist (opposes all Capitalism) that believe in an elected government (the Democratic part)
aspirant
(3,533 posts)The Democratic Party of the USA has accepted Bernie as a DEM and if not then convince them to kick him out of the party.
Go for it.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)because THAT is what one is...
Or are you saying he doesn't know WTF he is saying when he does?
retrowire
(10,345 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Why won't he say he is NOW a Democrat....if indeed he is as you claim? Its just "words" right?
retrowire
(10,345 posts)since it's so important to people like you.
The fact is Bernie disagrees with both parties on some things and he will not commit to a party unless he 100% agrees with it.
And since that will never be the case he has chosen to be an independent. he's playing by the rules and the Democratic Party is accepting of him, caucusing with them so why is everyone so upset?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)when will he do that?
If as you claim he is one....
I want to hear him say it....yes!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)wait till the Primary and you will see...not being one is going to be his downfall....in fact it already is.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Democratic President Bernie Go Bernie
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)because he is not a Democrat....
aspirant
(3,533 posts)then inform Skinner and let him throw us off this site
Do It
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You will either support her or be gone from DU!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)If you classify us now as Independents pressure Skinner to kick us all off
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)its coming....but not soon enough for me...I wish he would purge!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)What are you waiting for.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)you can read it there for yourself!
but if you happen to say that you are not willing to vote for whomever the Democrats elect in the Primary....I will purge you to my ignore list though!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)yet have no desire to represent DU, principled person you are
Purge all you want, it makes no difference to me.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 4, 2015, 02:14 PM - Edit history (1)
As a Socialist Democrat....like Europe and the Netherlands are....on a Democratic forum...
and yes...if you are not going to vote for whomever the Democrats select in their primary....you are by definition ...and Independent.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and against the rules....so not taking your bait sorry....
Besides...they are all on my personal "purge" list now....you need to hang around and learn the rules around here..
aspirant
(3,533 posts)say why are you not fighting to have his forum dissolved and all his supporters purged?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)you cannot call out other members...
I told you you do not know the rules here yet!
And yes...I wasn't kidding...there will be a purge...happens every election around here..
aspirant
(3,533 posts)what is a non-democrat candidate being supported with a Forum doing on DU?
You should do everything in your power to kick him out of here
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Because its a free for all...UNTIL the Primary.....
Like I said...anyone can run on the Democratic ticket.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system, involving a combination of political democracy (usually multi-party representative democracy) with social ownership of the means of production. Although sometimes used synonymously with "socialism", the adjective "democratic" is sometimes added to distinguish itself from other models of socialism which democratic socialists perceive to be undemocratic.[1]
Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
Do you reject all forms of Capitalism too?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)then pressure Skinner to remove him and his forum from DU
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)you cannot call out MEMBERS of DU....
hang around DU a while....you might learn eventually
(By the way...Skinner supports HRC)
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)because I know Bernie is a Democrat on DU and you don't
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Representative Spencer Bachus is one of the only people I know from Alabama. I bet I'm the only socialist he knows. I'm certainly the only one the congressman from Birmingham could name after darkly claiming that there are 17 socialists lurking in the House of Representatives.
I doubt that there are any other socialists, let alone 17 more, in all of the Congress. I also respectfully doubt that Spencer Bachus understands much about democratic socialism. I hope this is an opportunity to shed some light on a viewpoint that deserves more attention throughout America and in our capital.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/sanders-socialist-successes
aspirant
(3,533 posts)and by the way Bernie is running for President
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)6 years ago.....while Obama has been President as a point of reference....not as a 17 year old....how old was HE 6 years ago?
Like I said....game set match.
BTW....You have no idea who you are dealing with
...I have been known to do this for days ...you won't wear me down...it just wont happen
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Game set match, it's gentlemanly that you are conceding
who cares who I'm dealing with, you are no one special to me.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)One rule in the bylaws that requires that they be a Democrat....6 years ago he said he was a Socialist....not even a Socialist Democrat.....a Socialist....and rhe ONLY one...FULL STOP.
Oh and you should provide a link to boot.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Provide it yourself it's a government form.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Yes i do........if he doesnt....Repukes will use it as a cudgle in the General....this is why he will never be President.
And he knows it...
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
Now believing a Socialist is going to become a POTUS...thaaaat's dreaming!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Believing that a previous Presidential Loser will win, now that's fairy tale dreaming
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Link or it didnt happen....
Do you need help with that?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Subscribe to Ballot Access News
Privacy Policy
formats
Bernie Sanders Lists His “Party Affiliation” as “Democratic Party” in FEC Filing
Published on May 2, 2015, by Richard Winger in Uncategorized.
On April 30, Bernie Sanders filled out his Federal Election Commission paperwork by saying his “party affiliation” is the “Democratic Party.” See a copy of the FEC form here. Thanks to Vermont National Public Radio for the link
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Thats like being LGBT Aligned...
Look what it says his seat says....his Senate seat
You think i havent seen that?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Affiliate; to adopt or receive into a family
Sounds like a member to me
His Senate seat has nothing to do with his Statement of Candidacy for President, nice try
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Are you a member in good standing?
adjective
1.
being in close formal or informal association; related:
a letter sent to all affiliated clubs; a radio network and its affiliated local stations.
Afilliated means associated in this context....it doesnt meab he IS one.....
I
His seat says Independent.....if he BECAME a Democrat...that woukd no longer be the case would it?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)but not in good standing, DNC link or the association is nonsense.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Why are YOU putting words into his mouth?
Being affiliated with a group or otganization....simply means you are associated with them...
Now about that "affilliation" with Socialists?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)he must be a Democrat affiliate member in good standing or prove otherwise
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)it was YOUR question not mine after all..
aspirant
(3,533 posts)then both of you could kick Bernie and his forum off DU.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Thinks.....why are you asking me....ask him yourself.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)This is Democratic Underground and you should see to it all non-democrats are thrown off.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You want to know what Skinner thinks....ask him. I AM not his keeper. .
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Pretty much everything BUT a Democrat though.
Now...where is that link?
Having a bit of trouble with that are you?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)and I'm still waiting for your Quote for "opposing ALL capitalism" as my quote from the CNN debate trumps yours.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Link please!!!!!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)There is no rule that requires that you BE one to run in the Primary...never has been....so I cannot prove your negative....its just not a thing...
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Now provide a link that the DNC publicly stated that Bernie isn't a democrat since they have the choice either way
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)According to a Democratic National Committee aide, Sanders would not have a problem getting on Democratic primary and caucus ballots because the current party rules do not call for presidential candidates to be registered members of the party.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)..and what does the aide say about Repubs joining the party in Dem districts and changing back immediately after an election win?
Dr. Doolittle
(43 posts)and rigs all the primary machines to vote for him.
Then will you be willing to vote for him as the Democratic nominee?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I vote AGAINST the R every time.
See they wouldn't BE Democrats just because they run on the Democratic ticket....that is the point I am trying to make.
Dr. Doolittle
(43 posts)You will be voting for him anyway because he's got that D next to his name.
As in.
Sanders, Bernard (D-Vt)
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I hope to hear him proclaim he IS a Democrat....
not holding my breath though!
Dr. Doolittle
(43 posts)This is a very important election.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)damn near every poll puts her ahead now....why should I be weeping?
see this graphic below....works for me too!
retrowire
(10,345 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)what about THAT label.....its not "unaffilliated underground"
aspirant
(3,533 posts)So why aren't you pressuring Skinner to remove all Bernie Supporters?
You do realize you are on Democratic Underground right?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)you can repeat over and over that it is..it doesn't make it true...
“I am extremely proud to be an independent,” he told the Associated Press seven months into his congressional career. “The fact that I am not a Democrat gives me the freedom to speak out on the floor of the House, to vote against both the Democratic and Republican proposals.”
The flip side at first was this: “He screams and hollers,” Rep. Joe Moakley (D-Mass.) said to the AP at the time, “but he is all alone.” Rep. Bill Richardson (D-N.M.) called Sanders “a homeless waif.” Said Rep. Barney Frank, in ’91: “Bernie alienates his natural allies. His holier-than-thou attitude—saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else—really undercuts his effectiveness.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181#ixzz3qI2ZzHiI
aspirant
(3,533 posts)The big tent includes DEMOCRATIC Socialists and DEMOCRATIC Progressives and DEMOCRATIC Conservatives and DEMOCRATIC Corporatists and DEMOCRATIC Wall Streeters and DEMOCRATIC Third Wayers
Isn't the big tent wonderful
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)do you know what an ADJECTIVE is?
Do you understand that words that CAN be used as nouns....are sometimes used as adjectives?
It means a Socialist who believes in Elections and Democratic Government
Speaking of which...
If I say we have a Democratic Government does that mean that they are all Democrats?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)If we say Democratic Party does that mean its composed of only Republicans since there are no DNC rules?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)The Democratic Party do NOT have a rule in the bylaws that requires you be a Democrat to run in their Primary....
Bernie says himself that he is NOT a Democrat...in fact he has been running against and outright criticizing Democrats his entire career...he is NOT a Democrat
A Democratic SOCIALIST (which YOU yourself called him) is not a Democrat......by very definition. They do not believe in Regulated Capitalism....(that is the Socialists Democrats)...it means he opposes Capitalism.
Even if you repeat it 1 billion times...does not make it so.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)just like a DEMOCRATIC Progressive, a DEMOCRATIC Conservative, A DEMOCRATIC Corporatist, a DEMOCRATIC Wall Streeter, A DEMOCRATIC Third Wayer, etc, etc, etc.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)No matter how many times you try to say so.....
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and Websters Dictionary....
Who is trying to say that they are Democrats? YOU????
Do Democrats believe in NO Capitalism or Regulated Capitalism?
In Europe and the Netherlands...they are Socialist Democracies by definition....they are NOT Socialists....they have REGULATED Capitialism....they are Socialist Democracies.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Does the DNC"s non-rules say they are not Democrats?
Since you BELIEVE a Democratic Socialist isn't a Democrat, name names beside Bernie and his DU Skinner approved forum of who you think should be purged from DU
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Here...read it yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
Conversely....ask Europeans and Nordic countries...."are you a Social Democracy or Democratic Socialist state"?
(answer: they are Social Democracies because they HAVE Capitalism).
This is not my personal belief....it is THEIRS!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)so what does the DNC say?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
aspirant
(3,533 posts)can run as democrats in the democratic party?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and Bernie told you...he is a Socialist...of the Democratic strain.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Still waiting for quote, what's taking so long?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)that Sanders WAS a member of...
Which is affiliated with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America
and I didn't make the rules about the Democratic Primary...take it up with the DNC...
aspirant
(3,533 posts)because it stands for nothing, tells us how much you know.
Who WAS a member of the Goldwater Girls?
Just what exactly are the DNC rules, dude?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)And when she went to college...she converted.....that is the difference between she and Bernie....SHE became a Democrat...he still hasnt!
Guess what else Elizabeth Warren was once a Registered Republican...but she converted and became a Democrat...unlike Bernie
you make no sense.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)"as a 17 yr old...she couldn't even vote"! and had no idea what she was doing just like her Iraq vote.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/sanders-socialist-successes
Representative Spencer Bachus is one of the only people I know from Alabama. I bet I'm the only socialist he knows. I'm certainly the only one the congressman from Birmingham could name after darkly claiming that there are 17 socialists lurking in the House of Representatives.
I doubt that there are any other socialists, let alone 17 more, in all of the Congress. I also respectfully doubt that Spencer Bachus understands much about democratic socialism. I hope this is an opportunity to shed some light on a viewpoint that deserves more attention throughout America and in our capital.
He sure as shit wasn't 17 in 2009 was he???
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)...so no, he's never claimed to be a Democrat. He avoids that label like the plague because he knows that label is important and he doesn't want to publically admit that he is not a Democrat. He is running as an Independent on the Democratic ticket. you may have seen this post? http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251755419
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)isn't that funny!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)and was he running for President then too.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)As an independent, he was elected mayor of Burlington, Vermont's most populous city, in 1981. He was reelected three times before being elected to represent Vermont's at-large congressional district in the U.S. House of Representatives in 1990. In 1991, Sanders co-founded the Congressional Progressive Caucus. He served as a congressman for 16 years before being elected to the U.S. Senate in 2006. In 2012, he was reelected by a large margin, capturing almost 71% of the popular vote.
You really know very little about this person you support.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)You keep forgetting the quote, is your memory fading?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)he has NEVER before run on the Democratic Ticket...
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Democratic (meaning elections) Socialists....are still Socialists.....its just NOT the Soviet Union style Socialism
Democratic Socialists Party of America:
http://www.dsausa.org/about_dsa
Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Good then Bernie chose the REAL "Democratic Party," you should be honored
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)a Democratic Socialist...which by very definition is NOT a Democrat....no matter how many times you repeat it.
He could have called himself a Socialist Democrat....but he doesn't does he?
Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
aspirant
(3,533 posts)A Democratic Socialist is a Democrat, that's why they use the word Democratic
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)by YOUR definition...I mean...the word Democratic is right there isn't it?
A Democratic Socialist is NOT a Democrat....Democrats are NOT opposed to Capitalism.
that word DEMOCRATIC simply means elected government.....its an adjective to the word Socialist. As opposed to Socialist Countries that do NOT hold elections for government.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Democratic = Democracy = Democrats
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Please read and LEARN:
Social democracy is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving welfare state provisions, collective bargaining arrangements, regulation of the economy in the general interest, redistribution of income and wealth, and a commitment to representative democracy.[1][2][3] Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater egalitarian, democratic and solidaristic outcomes, and is often associated with the set of socioeconomic policies that became prominent in Western and Northern Europe - particularly in the Nordic countries - during the latter half of the 20th century.[4][5][6]
Social democracy originated as a political ideology that advocated a peaceful, evolutionary transition of society from capitalism to socialism using established political processes, in contrast to the revolutionary approach to transition associated with Orthodox Marxism.[7] However, in the post-war era, contemporary social democracy separated from the socialist movement altogether, instead emerging as a distinct political identity that advocated reforming rather than replacing capitalism.[8] In this period, social democrats embraced a mixed economy based on the predominance of private property, with only a minority of essential utilities and public services under public ownership; as a result, social democracy became associated with Keynesian economics, state interventionism, and the welfare state, while abandoning their prior goal of abolishing the capitalist system and substituting it with a qualitatively different socialist economic system.[9][10][11]
Modern social democracy is characterized by a commitment to policies aimed to curb inequality, poverty, and the oppression of underprivileged groups,[12] including support for universally-accessible public services like education, health care, workers' compensation, child care and care for the elderly.[
Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system, involving a combination of political democracy (usually multi-party representative democracy) with social ownership of the means of production. Although sometimes used synonymously with "socialism", the adjective "democratic" is sometimes added to distinguish itself from other models of socialism which democratic socialists perceive to be undemocratic.[1]
Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
aspirant
(3,533 posts)".he is simply a Socialist (opposes all Capitalism) that believe in an elected government (the Democratic part)" post 107
Where is the quote of Bernie saying this?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Do you not believe he KNOWS what a Democratic Socialist is?
THAT is exactly what distinguishes them.....that is what Socialism MEANS....although he is the version that does believe in an elected government
If he doesn't believe that....there are other terms he COULD use.....yet he never has.
Why do you not think he is smart enough to KNOW that?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)you proved your "version" not his "version
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Do you think they don't know what THEY believe?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Does he "oppose all capitalism" with a quote? It's taking you a long time to find this quote, what's the hold-up?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)do you get your own Truth too?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Show me the DNC rules stating he can't define himself
Everyone gets their own truth and if there are common truths, we unite.
"do you get your own Truth too"? What a silly statement
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)which already exists....and if he doesn't agree with them...then he should stop calling himself one...if he doesnt want to be associated with what THEY believe.,
If someone said they were a member of the KKK....would you believe them? Or think they had something else in mind?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)How convenient that he chose to run as a Democrat in the Democratic party
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)he has NEVER claimed to be one...in fact he outright denies this...
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Democrats do not oppose all Capitalism...Democratic Socialists DO!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)or your argument is worthless.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Democratic Socialists do not believe in ANY kind of Capitalism.....
Socialist Democrats DO.
Uh OH!
Here he is calling HIMSELF a Socialist!
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/sanders-socialist-successes
aspirant
(3,533 posts)You must have forgotten the CNN debate. Here we go
Cooper: You don't consider yourself a capitalist?
Sanders: Do I consider myself part of the casino-capitalist process by which so few have so much and so many have so little, by which Wall Street greed and recklessness wrecked this economy, No I don't. I believe in a society where all people do well, not just a handful of billionaires.
"Opposes All capitalism" laughable
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)"social ownership of the means of production"
But Democratic SOCIALISTS do.....
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)the fact that the DNC is obviously cool with Bernie caucusing with them?
why so mad?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Not mad at all....I just tell the truth and those that deny it think its because I am mad...
retrowire
(10,345 posts)many believe that Bernie represents the core purpose of the democratic party more than the establishment democrats.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)not so for Socialist Democrats....who just want it regulated.
I give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows the difference, don't you?
retrowire
(10,345 posts)pick the wording apart all you want, his actions speak louder and clearer. he's clearly okay with regulated capitalism.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
Social democracy is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving welfare state provisions, collective bargaining arrangements, regulation of the economy in the general interest, redistribution of income and wealth, and a commitment to representative democracy.[1][2][3] Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater egalitarian, democratic and solidaristic outcomes, and is often associated with the set of socioeconomic policies that became prominent in Western and Northern Europe - particularly in the Nordic countries - during the latter half of the 20th century.[4][5][6]
Social democracy originated as a political ideology that advocated a peaceful, evolutionary transition of society from capitalism to socialism using established political processes, in contrast to the revolutionary approach to transition associated with Orthodox Marxism.[7] However, in the post-war era, contemporary social democracy separated from the socialist movement altogether, instead emerging as a distinct political identity that advocated reforming rather than replacing capitalism.[8] In this period, social democrats embraced a mixed economy based on the predominance of private property, with only a minority of essential utilities and public services under public ownership; as a result, social democracy became associated with Keynesian economics, state interventionism, and the welfare state, while abandoning their prior goal of abolishing the capitalist system and substituting it with a qualitatively different socialist economic system.[9][10][11]
Modern social democracy is characterized by a commitment to policies aimed to curb inequality, poverty, and the oppression of underprivileged groups,[12] including support for universally-accessible public services like education, health care, workers' compensation, child care and care for the elderly.[
retrowire
(10,345 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)its just words after all!
retrowire
(10,345 posts)I DO keep repeating that. lmao
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I want to see THOSE actions!
retrowire
(10,345 posts)he's caucusing with them though. 
his record and actions are more representative than the simple label of "democrat".
after all, Hillary is a democrat, yet many people feel that shes a corporatist, shapeshifting, centrist who plays too friendly with wall st to be serious about her claims to regulate it.
and those feelings about her are based on her actions. not her label.
so really, if Hillary really is all that and she is supposed to represent a true democrat, would you support that kind of democrat? is that person really representative of the democratic party? are they just wearing the label for tradition?
who knows? perhaps she's a righty in lefty clothing like some believe and perhaps she's a true democrat and that makes her actions acceptable? I dunno.
In the end, actions are more important and Bernie wins that for me.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I am a Socialist Democrat....I support regulated capitalism...not eliminating it.
Did you know that he is a former member of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_People%27s_Socialist_League_(1907)
which is affiliated with..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America
The SP stopped running presidential candidates after 1956, when its nominee Darlington Hoopes won fewer than 6,000 votes. In the party's last decades, its members, many of them prominent in the labor, peace, civil rights and civil liberties movements, fundamentally disagreed about the socialist movement's relationship to the labor movement and Democratic Party in the U.S., and about how best to advance democracy abroad. In 1970–1973, these strategic differences had become so acute that the Socialist Party changed its name to Social Democrats, USA. Leaders of two of its caucuses formed separate socialist organizations, the Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee and the Socialist Party USA.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)content, character and actions be damned.
gimme dat D! lol
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You will not find ANY associations of mine with the Socialist Party of America. But Bernie cannot say that!
retrowire
(10,345 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)Then kick him out of the party, the debates and state ballots.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)HOWEVER...states do have their OWN rules for getting on the ballots (at least 5 of them)....THEY decide that for themselves..and he will have to cross that bridge when he comes to them
that is just the way it is...
Sanders is NOT a Democrat and says so himself.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)and part of the big tent just like the Repubs Third Way'ers are Dems
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)sorry...you can say it a million times...it doesn't change the fact of what a Democratic Socialist is..
Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system, involving a combination of political democracy (usually multi-party representative democracy) with social ownership of the means of production. Although sometimes used synonymously with "socialism", the adjective "democratic" is sometimes added to distinguish itself from other models of socialism which democratic socialists perceive to be undemocratic.[1]
Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
boston bean
(36,220 posts)could happen.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)then I suggest that NON-MEMBER Bernie be kicked off the debate schedule and removed from Dem state Ballots
Go get it done
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)you challenge him
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Is the Peoples DEMOCRATIC Republic of China.....a Social Democracy now too?
boston bean
(36,220 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)Stand on your principles and you go for it. Have him kicked out of the debates and Dem State ballots
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)A Democratic Socialist is NOT the same thing as a Socialist Democrat...they are not synonymous....Ask the Netherlands and Europe if they want to be called Socialists even Democratic ones....they will tell you NO they are Socialist Democracies.....
Repetition doesn't change these facts...
aspirant
(3,533 posts)The DNC is embracing him as a Democrat within their non-rules and he takes his place within the BIG TENT
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You can repeat this shit a billion times...it doesn't change it....Democratic Socialism is NOT a Democratic platform...Democrats do NOT oppose ALL Capitalism....they prefer to REGULATE it instead.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)If Bernie's issues of a Democratic Socialist (expand social security, tax the rich,etc) are included in the platform, then welcome Bernie to the big Democratic tent.
If they are not, kick him out of the party.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)They are called Socialist Democrats....I have told you this repeatedly!
Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system, involving a combination of political democracy (usually multi-party representative democracy) with social ownership of the means of production. Although sometimes used synonymously with "socialism", the adjective "democratic" is sometimes added to distinguish itself from other models of socialism which democratic socialists perceive to be undemocratic.[1]
Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3]
However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
aspirant
(3,533 posts)or your definition means nothing.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Why don't YOU believe he knows what the hell he is talking about? Why do you believe he doesn't KNOW what that term even means...Particularly when there IS another term....for someone who DOES believe in REGULATING Capitalism....which is a Socialist Democrat....but he Doesn't call himself THAT does he? Do you also think he doesn't know that word exists?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)and don't put words in Bernie's mouth unless you provide a quote, "opposes all capitalism"
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)either he is one of them...or he is lying....which one do you think?
By the way...Europeans are not Democratic Socialists.....I dare you to ask one!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Bernie has freely chosen to run in the Democratic Party as a Democrat, how wonderful freedom is.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Game Set Match...
Sanders Socialist Successes
Wednesday, April 22, 2009
Representative Spencer Bachus is one of the only people I know from Alabama. I bet I'm the only socialist he knows. I'm certainly the only one the congressman from Birmingham could name after darkly claiming that there are 17 socialists lurking in the House of Representatives.
I doubt that there are any other socialists, let alone 17 more, in all of the Congress. I also respectfully doubt that Spencer Bachus understands much about democratic socialism. I hope this is an opportunity to shed some light on a viewpoint that deserves more attention throughout America and in our capital.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/sanders-socialist-successes
There you go...in his OWN words...satisfied now?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)The Democratic party is on his FEC Presidential filing form.
You lose.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Link it...
Game Set Match indeed....
He said he was a Socialist just like I said.....and even after he announced he said he is not a Democrat....
You know how to post links right? Need some help?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)A Democratic Socialist running as a Democrat
Which DNC aides say he is not a Democrat?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Therefore my telling you what a Democratic Socialist means holds...he is a Socialist that believes in elections..period full stop.
Keep on letting me show my link to prove it over and over
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/sanders-socialist-successes
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Today 2015 he said he is a Democrat from a WSJ article posted by a fellow HRC supporter.
Read it and weep.
Game, set, match
boston bean
(36,220 posts)until he becomes a member of the Democratic Party.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)then "KICK HIM" off the ballot and debates.
Stop supporting him with DNC personnel.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)laid right at their feet.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)that he is a member of the Dem party because no one is denying him Dem ballot access or kicking him off the Dem debates.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)But the DNC will work to allow him to be on the ballot in NH.
He's got it all going for him...
aspirant
(3,533 posts)If he is not a member then kick him off the debates and ballots
If you allow non-members to run as Dems, then Teabaggers running as Dems will be next
boston bean
(36,220 posts)That doesn't mean he can't be put on a democratic ballot in a primary.
Which is what all this brouhaha is about.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)like Dick Cheney if he so chooses or even a monkey.
Bernie said he is running as a DEM and that's plenty for the DNC and State Dem ballots
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)so doing so doesn't make you one...
If Sanders is a Democrat....why doesn't he just say so?
Because he just isn't...
aspirant
(3,533 posts)"You don't have to be a Democrat to get on the Democratic ballot..."
Is this a joke? Then change the name to the "ANYBODY Party" and let every Republican run as Dem and when elected immediately change back to a Republican
Because he just is
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)He is a SOCIALIST.....just a Democratic one....which means "opposes Capitalism with elections"
There is another term...called Socialist Democrat....(which he DOESN'T call himself)
However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
aspirant
(3,533 posts)only you improperly use the term
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)just none.....so doing so doesn't make you one.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)and let all Republicans run as Dems only to change back when elected
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Take it up with the DNC....there are no specific rules that require you to BE a Democrat to try to run under the Democratic banner.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Since there are no rules then anybody can run and be a Democratic member and don't have to pass any of your tests or requirements to be a Democrat , right
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)YOU seem to be the one with a problem with a Non-Democrat running for office on the Democratic Primary....
aspirant
(3,533 posts)It is why you are trying so hard to label him
"the rules do not say you have to be a Democrat to run" What do the rules say?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)He COULD have chosen the label "Democrat" or "Socialist Democrat".....but he doesn't ...he calls himself a Socialist....albeit a Democratic (adjective meaning elected govt) Socialist!
the rules do NOT say that you cannot run if you are NOT a Democrat. I don't have a problem with that....but it DOES mean that someone running isn't one just because they do....
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Then you support the "Anybody Party"
Still waiting for your Bernie quote that "opposes all capitalism" did you forget?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)that is what he ran on as Senator....but he calls himself a Democratic Socialist. You don't seem to know much about the candidate you are supporting.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)I don't expect you to know much about the candidate you oppose.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)which we have already established does not automatically make one
aspirant
(3,533 posts)and if you don't think he belongs kick him off the ticket
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)Now prove he "opposes all capitalism" with a public atatement
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Representative Spencer Bachus is one of the only people I know from Alabama. I bet I'm the only socialist he knows. I'm certainly the only one the congressman from Birmingham could name after darkly claiming that there are 17 socialists lurking in the House of Representatives
Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership[1][2] and [3][4] social control[3][5][6][7][8] of the means of production[9] as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.[10] "Social ownership" may refer to public ownership, cooperative ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.[11] Although there are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[12] social ownership is the common element shared by its various forms.[6][13]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)so just running on that ticket...doesn't mean you are automatically one...especially if you describe yourself as a Democratic Socialist and not a Socialist Democrat...
Do you think he isn't aware of the term Socialist Democrat?
I give him the benefit of the doubt that YES he does know what that is...and the difference....and yet....he still calls himself a Socialist not a Democrat...when he has an alternative term if he doesn't oppose all Capitalism, so obviously he does.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)"opposes all capitalism" and not your opinion
He is a Democratic Socialist within the Democratic Party Big Tent.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
Or do you believe he doesn't KNOW what that term means?
I give him the benefit of the doubt.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Now provide the quote that Bernie agrees with you, good luck.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)they even have their own website about it..
http://www.dsausa.org/
Is he one of them?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)running as a Democrat in the Democratic Party.
If that bothers you then pressure the DNC to kick him out.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Representative Spencer Bachus is one of the only people I know from Alabama. I bet I'm the only socialist he knows. I'm certainly the only one the congressman from Birmingham could name after darkly claiming that there are 17 socialists lurking in the House of Representatives.
I doubt that there are any other socialists, let alone 17 more, in all of the Congress. I also respectfully doubt that Spencer Bachus understands much about democratic socialism. I hope this is an opportunity to shed some light on a viewpoint that deserves more attention throughout America and in our capital.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/sanders-socialist-successes
Does he get his own version of that too?
Hey look...I am the Queen of Sheba! (does that make it so?)
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Of course not....
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:10 PM - Edit history (1)
of course so. You can be her for the rest of your life if you choose.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Do you think America will vote for a full on Socialist....or even one that is couching it from them by saying...."not THAT kind of Socialist"
Do you think the Republicans would just let THAT statement slide in the General.....if I found it so easily? They would bury him with this...
aspirant
(3,533 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)He says so himself
He was, when he arrived in Washington, the only one of the 535 members of Congress who didn’t identify as either a Democrat or a Republican.
“I am extremely proud to be an independent,” he told the Associated Press seven months into his congressional career. “The fact that I am not a Democrat gives me the freedom to speak out on the floor of the House, to vote against both the Democratic and Republican proposals.”
The flip side at first was this: “He screams and hollers,” Rep. Joe Moakley (D-Mass.) said to the AP at the time, “but he is all alone.” Rep. Bill Richardson (D-N.M.) called Sanders “a homeless waif.” Said Rep. Barney Frank, in ’91: “Bernie alienates his natural allies. His holier-than-thou attitude—saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else—really undercuts his effectiveness.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181#ixzz3qI2ZzHiI
aspirant
(3,533 posts)and if he isn't then kick him out of the party.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Thats a socialist with Democratic tendencies....meaning they accept elections.
Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]
Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy.[5][6]
Note: the Netherlands and Europe are Social Democracies.....NOT Democratic Socialist states!
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Hillary is not a small d democrat. Sanders IS a small d democrat.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)He was also member of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_People%27s_Socialist_League_(1907)
which is affiliated with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)He is a small d democrat. He is all about policy, not establishment fluff.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/sanders-socialist-successes
Representative Spencer Bachus is one of the only people I know from Alabama. I bet I'm the only socialist he knows. I'm certainly the only one the congressman from Birmingham could name after darkly claiming that there are 17 socialists lurking in the House of Representatives.
I doubt that there are any other socialists, let alone 17 more, in all of the Congress. I also respectfully doubt that Spencer Bachus understands much about democratic socialism. I hope this is an opportunity to shed some light on a viewpoint that deserves more attention throughout America and in our capital.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Full stop.
lostnfound
(16,169 posts)We DO want to be the DECENT party, right?
And if the Democratic voters don't want him, they don't have to,vote for him. It's RESPECTFUL to those of us VOTERS who want the option to do so. Aren't we the Big Tent party?
boston bean
(36,220 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Full stop.
1monster
(11,012 posts)with DWS. She has ridden rough-shod over them.
This guy is doing what is right for the Democratic Party under its rules. Good for him.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)It's a made up conspiracy theory.
1monster
(11,012 posts)Oh gimme a break! Wasn't it just a couple of weeks ago that two DNC Vice Chairs were very vocally complaining about DWS not consulting them and brushing off their concerns the way Hillary (in that cool gif) brushed the Bengazi hearing off her shoulder. And DWS calling them, in other words, liars?
I explicitly stated that I wasn't commenting on anything other than the discord between DWS and the Vice Chairs... How do you get "conspiracy theory" from that!
If I were in the mood to get into a fruitless arguement with you, I'd point out that "conspiracy theory" has become the go-to label used to scare off people from discussing certain issues. But I'm not, so 
boston bean
(36,220 posts)If so, provide it.
1monster
(11,012 posts)It's not an endearing tactic calculated to win friends and influence people. It's more a way of trying to make it look like you've won a point. But there was no point to be won to begin with. Done with this very silly argument...
boston bean
(36,220 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)boston bean
(36,220 posts)That was what the post was about.
Is she fighting a legal battle to keep him off of the ballot? Is she making statement to journalists that he shouldn't be on it? Did she write the rules/law in NH in anticipation of this very scenario years ago to keep Bernie off the ballot?
What proof at all do you have of DWS keeping Bernie off the ballot in NH. Answer is NONE.
But one thing we can be sure about it, is the DNC NH Chair is fighting to be sure Bernie is on the ballot.
Let's stick with facts, not conspiracies.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... the NH chair do not change that fact.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)
Renew Deal
(81,851 posts)Your post implies that DWS or the DNC has been trying to keep him off the ballot
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Renew Deal
(81,851 posts)" The positive actions of one state chair do not change the actions of the national chair."
Scuba
(53,475 posts)DNC, in case you don't know, stands for Democratic National Committee.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)Democratic National Committee?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)boston bean
(36,220 posts)Do you have a smoking gun with irrefutable evidence?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)boston bean
(36,220 posts)The proof here is presented to you. There is nothing to back up your claims.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)boston bean
(36,220 posts)DWS has at some point made it known her intention to keep Bernie off the NH ballot.
There is no fact, historical or otherwise, that is proof of that kind of unfactual conspiracy.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)boston bean
(36,220 posts)I've taken the time to let you know how ridiculous this charge is. With FACTS.
Yours is not based in one iota of fact.
lastly, you ought to take your own advice regarding your last sentence.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)boston bean
(36,220 posts)is helping Bernie get on the ballot in NH.
With that FACT, we can end the establishment, ie DWS is shilling for Hillary.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)1) this is in NH, where the establishment DNC chair is helping Bernie.
2) there is no PROOF that the head of the NATIONAL Democratic Party is influencing this in favor of Hillary Clinton.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)boston bean
(36,220 posts)Renew Deal
(81,851 posts)That's how it's being muddied.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)His behavior is not unexpected, nor should it be taken as anything other than personal integrity and political payback.
I'm sure the Clinton campaign has been giving out ulcers left and right in NH. Since NH doesn't expect any special favors from the national Committee, there's no need to kiss Clinton ass, in the locals' eyes. Bill Clinton did them no favors when he was pres, anyway.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)for this thread to be noticed.
Otherwise, it's going to sink like a stone.
Sid
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)If he didn't fulfill the NH filing requirements by the deadline, or as I suspect, refuses to sign the declaration that he's a member of the Dem party -- which Vermont seems to have let slide, contra their own statute -- that's his problem, not the DNC's. And bringing his adoring dad to the principal's office to protest shouldn't make a difference but probably will.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)I'm not concerned about this in the least.
But you are correct in stating this is Bernie's issue. It's not up to Hillary Clinton to fight this for him.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)Where did you get that the Vermont party let slide "their own statute"?
Please provide citations for these spurious claims.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)This is so silly
seaglass
(8,171 posts)But you are right this is silly, he is running in the Democratic Primary so he should be on that ballot.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)In presidential primaries, national party rules take precedence over state law, said Thomas Connolly, a spokesman for the BOE. As long as Mr. Sanders “espouses party ideals, then actual enrollment is not an issue.”
http://observer.com/2015/06/can-bernie-sanders-appear-on-the-democratic-primary-ballot-in-new-york/
and the Dem Party has accepted him as a candidate
As a side note, Al Franken, Amy Klobuchar, Keith Ellison, Rick Nolan and Betty McCollum aren't official members of the party either. We are all members of the Democratic Farmer Labor Party.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)The reality of this is, DWS has been perfectly fair to Sanders throughout the whole primary process.
The entire narrative of the "DNC and DWS is AGAINST BERNIE!!!11!!11!1!1!1!" meme has zero basis in reality. It's more from that crowd that wants to believe the only reason they don't have everything they want is that there are conspiracies arrayed against them. One of their silly other memes is that if only Obama confronted Republicans and "used the bully pulpit" we would have a progressive nirvana right now with Republicans being forced to vote for Single Payer, a $35/hr minimum wage, 100% clean and renewable energy grid, and complete equality for everyone not only in law but in everyone's mind.
Obama is part of that conspiracy you see. In case it's necessary 
retrowire
(10,345 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Don't you make your living from, and doesn't maintaining the status quo means job security for you?
boston bean
(36,220 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)boston bean
(36,220 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)
Arkana
(24,347 posts)
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Can you imagine the outrage if any other campaign besides the Sanders campaign would have invented this "crisis"?
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts) 
Ford_Prefect
(7,875 posts)Current DNC leadership
National Chair: Debbie Wasserman Schultz
Vice Chairs:
Tulsi Gabbard, U.S. Representative from Hawaii
Maria Elena Durazo, Executive Secretary–Treasurer of the AFL-CIO
Donna Brazile, political analyst, campaign manager for Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign
Raymond Buckley, President of the Association of State Democratic Chairs, Chair of the New Hampshire Democratic Party
R. T. Rybak, former Mayor of Minneapolis, Minnesota
One NEW ENGLAND Democrat deciding to do the right thing does not absolve the leadership gaffs and obdurate dismissal of party rank and file opinion by the National Chair.
The pattern of irresponsible and underhanded behavior on the part of some HRC advocates has been documented since 2008 and beyond. It defies logic that the candidate herself has no knowledge or awareness of these actions or of those persons formulating and operating these strategies.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)to help get Bernie on the ballot.
What does it matter there are other vice chairs?
You have some proof the DNC leadership opposing his action? Or that he is going against something the Chair wants?
Ford_Prefect
(7,875 posts)
TBF
(32,029 posts)The buck stops with Schultz.
Debates? Anyone?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Geez, anything for a conspiracy theory on DU these days.
TBF
(32,029 posts)folks in higher positions of the party have no influence whatsoever in lower elections?
How old are you again?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)By LAW, state organizations run their own processes.
She cannot tell a state with a late primary to hold an early caucus. She cannot tell a state to support a candidate over another. She cannot tell the state chair of New Hampshire not to support Sanders efforts to get on the ballot an not to use state party funds to challenge any decision to keep him off the ballot in court.
And she damned sure cannot tell a State Secretary of State (an APPOINTED position Gardner has held since 1976, being kept in office by Republican legislatures and Democratic legislatures alike) what New Hampshire law is.
Debbie Wasserman-Shultz has absolutely NOTHING to do with this. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)
More power in the state parties, less at the DNC. Funding state parties, not specific campaigns.
TBF
(32,029 posts)I don't see evidence of it in Houston. When everyone sends their contributions to the DNC where does it end up? And how is that determined?
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)And why I don't give money to the national organizations.
TBF
(32,029 posts)still_one
(92,108 posts)
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
boston bean
(36,220 posts)Something that actually points to their scarediness please.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
boston bean
(36,220 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Look nobody is afraid of you. Get over yourself.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)This is a problem for Sanders, who is not a registered Democrat. One might ask why the good senator can’t simply change his registration in his home state from socialist or independent to Democrat. The answer is that Vermont doesn’t have a party registration system, so he can’t. Similar issues arose with the candidacies of Al Gore and both George H.W. and George W. Bush because, like Vermont, Tennessee and Texas do not register voters by party. But Gore and the Bushes qualified for New Hampshire’s primary ballots because they could show that they had previously appeared on ballots as a Democrat and Republicans, respectively. In his last election, Sanders likewise won the Democratic primary in Vermont, but he declined the nomination and asked that his name not appear on the general election ballot as a Democrat.
In short, Sanders is not a Democrat, has not been elected as a Democrat, has never served as a Democrat and cannot plausibly claim, at least in New Hampshire, to be a Democrat.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2015_06/ballot_access_problem_for_bern056172.php
There would be no issue if Bernie had a history of running as a Democrat. Unfortunately, he has a history of refusing to run as a Democrat.
That said, the DNC will bail him out and ensure that he gets on the NH ballot as a Democrat.
Sid
newblewtoo
(667 posts)"Politics ain't bean bag" (but that doesn't mean it can't be just as much fun). Can Bernie get on the ballot as a Democrat? I would say based on this evicence, Yes!
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)the hate shown towards Obama starts and it would, is that going to be DWS problem also? Where does responsibility by the candidates start.
Let me point out also, there is lots of disparaging remarks made about DWS, the superdelegates which have endorsed Clinton. So what if DWS has worked with Clinton before and will again in the future, there have been complaints about the debates, why there are not more, more debates is not going to overcome a voters beliefs of a candidates policies. If this was a fact then Clinton should ask for enough debates to stop the disparaging remarks against her, does anyone think this going to happen?
There have been post about obtaining signatures on petitions in the different states to get a candidate on the ballot, the supporters should be going in the different states getting the signature. This should be a part of the campaign team. If the team is not going to work for the candidate then who will.
Not every problem is DWS fault. If the DNC is hated so much why has Sanders decided to run in the DNC primary? Is his judgment so bad he made a mistake in running in the DNC? Is Sanders statement he would follow the DNC rules flawed?
luvspeas
(1,883 posts)
Gothmog
(145,046 posts)As a Hillary Clinton supporter, I want Sanders to be on the ballot in New Hampshire and I am glad that the DNC is trying to help Sanders be on the New Hampshire ballot.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)It's his problem.
But it is untrue to state that Hillary and DWS are working to keep him off the ballot.
Let him be on it, I don't really care. He is going to lose NH anyhow.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)All of those 'he is not a Democrat' posters who undermine the Party need to step up and speak to this.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)is so much more fun!
Vattel
(9,289 posts)The OP you link to doesn't make that claim.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)in one of the other threads on this subject that claim exactly and precisely that.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)absurd considering the facts on the ground. There are a few on DU who have always disagreed with the Party and claimed that Bernie was in no way a Democrat.
Both sides are full of individuals who are just cranks. Political cohorts are huge, it is not possible to have crank free national victory.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)boston bean
(36,220 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)boston bean
(36,220 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Sure, he SAYS he's going to escort him to be on the ballot.
But he's really just taking Bernie on a long drive, maybe to a farm upstate, where he can run free!!!!!
Don't go Bernie!!!!!!
boston bean
(36,220 posts) 
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
RandySF
(58,655 posts)I believe in ballot access no matter whom I support.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)DNC has been congenial and polite to Bernie.
MADem
(135,425 posts)BUT BUT BUT!!!!!
From the outset, I thought this whole Torches and Pitchforks approach was one of those "Fight the power/play the victim" stunts, and darn, it looks like I was right.
Are all the easily enraged still going to show up screaming for DNC blood, while the DNC shoehorns this guy in?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)DNC's own point of view. There have been many, many posts wailing about him not being a Democrat while the Democratic Party says that he is but none of those who posted that shit will retract in support of the Party. Proves their pudding.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)hard to argue with a that
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251755419
MADem
(135,425 posts)He is running under the DNC's umbrella, as a consequence of his request and their generous good offices. There is a distinction and a difference between 'running in the Democratic primary' and 'being a member of the Democratic Party."
But he's not a Democrat--unless he's lying, and I don't think he is. Or unless he's changed his tune and he's going to affiliate formally with us.
Up to this point, though, he's not identified himself as a Democrat, and he has said as much.
boston bean
(36,220 posts)his not being a member of the Democratic Party (the absolute fucking truth), and the DNC's courtesy of allowing to appear on a democratic ballot..
^^
They can't seem to understand the difference.
MADem
(135,425 posts)loud hectoring and rudeness.
I doubt the GOP would have offered their umbrella to Sanders.
The DNC could have told him to pound sand and do it on his own. Instead, they recognized him as an "associate," if not an actual member, and extended a welcome to him.
dembotoz
(16,796 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I posted last night that I thought the Secretary's statements were kabuki and today's news has only convinced me that I was correct.
(http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251764490 Thread is now locked, so I can't link directly to my Rely 57.)
The Secretary of New Hampshire had no legal reason to question Sanders' bona fides to be on the Democratic ballot or to snark about seeing what Sanders brings him.
Sanders has been recognized as a candidate for the Democratic nomination by the DNC, he has done everything he needs to do under Vermont law to become a Democrat and the Vermont Democratic Party has recognized him as a Democrat. There was no legitimate reason whatever to question for the press whether he belonged on the ballot. However, it did give the DNC the opportunity to stand up for him after the blatant bias of DWS and the DNC against him has been the subject of much press. So, two birds with one stone: damage Sanders more and try to polish up the turd the reputation of DWS has become. See also: http://www.democraticunderground.com/128018753
It's all ginned up bs, both the questioning and the "rescue." So, two turd birds with one stone: (1) Make headlines questioning Sanders bona fides as a Democrat yet again, and polish up the turd that DWS's reputation has become by having the DNC stand by his side and appear neutral.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)for decades, but it's Hillary's responsibility to see he gets on the ballot.
Lol 
MADem
(135,425 posts)Ain't that the truth! She's Queen of the DNC Cartel, doncha know! The Great and Powerful Wizardess of Dems!
She controls all! 74 year old guys who have been in politics for a third of a century are laid low and clueless by her powerful "Hillary-ness!" Even though she has no role in the DNC save as a named candidate, and she is not the party leader, "It's Hillary's Fault" if a grown man can't get his shit together.
