Bernie's blooper: his 90% joke about Ike and taxes.

[pnwmom]

Unfortunately, dry, sarcastic humor only works if the listener is in on the joke:

Yes, it was a funny joke -- if you knew

1) who Ike was (a Republican and a General who by no means considered himself a socialist)

2) if you understand how tax tables work (and that top rates only apply to people at the highest levels) and

3) if you were confident that the top rate wouldn't be raised close to 90%, with all the intervening rates (including yours) taking a similar hike.

Unfortunately, his sarcastic comment required an intelligence and knowledge of percentages and tax tables that too many potential voters might not have.

Especially if he is our candidate in the General Election. A crack like this in the general election debates would go completely over the heads of the majority of viewers. Almost all the Rethugs plus a good fraction of Democrats.

Congrats to everyone here who got the joke. Too many others would not.

[Scootaloo]

1. So it's a "blooper" because YOU presume voters are idiots?

Fascinating.

[pnwmom]

8. They voted for Ronald Reagan in a landslide.

About half of them voted for George Bush.

There are lots of uninformed voters out there who would not "get" Bernie's joke but are sure they don't want to pay a dime more in taxes.

[Scootaloo]

14. This is not supporting your premise that it was a "blooper"

[pnwmom]

24. So you're saying he purposely made a joke that the majority of voters

in the general wouldn't get?

[Scootaloo]

27. I'm saying your attempt at negative spin is silly and a little sad.

[pnwmom]

29. What's sad is the pair of blinders you're wearing that make you unable

to see the affect he could INADVERTENTLY have on many voters by saying sarcastic things, like referring to Ike as a socialist. And things that could be misinterpreted, like promising he won't go as high as 90%. Most voters don't want to hear about 85% top rates, either. Or even 80%. They don't trust that their own middle incomes won't also see tax increases.

Maybe Bernie should let people know what sort of tax rates he does have in mind -- and who they will affect. Otherwise, having mentioned the 90% number, he's letting voters imaginations run wild.

[CTyankee]

41. the tax thing needs context. It's not that complicated. Tell people their rates won't go up

but the top of the top need to be taxed more, at a higher rate than now and loopholes for the very rich must be closed. Assure folks that the mortgage interest deduction would still apply. It isn't that difficult to understand.

[pnwmom]

50. No, it isn't. But he isn't speaking definitively about this now -- so we didn't need that joke. n/t

[Fawke Em]

48. Maybe we should treat people like dolts like Hillary does.

Check.

[Fawke Em]

46. If they don't get it, your OP means to assume they are idiots.

[berni_mccoy]

2. Don't worry, most people who wouldn't get the joke weren't watching anyway

It was at 9pm on a Saturday night. Otherwise, I *might* agree except for the fact that he mentioned he wouldn't be raising taxes as high as they've been historically. I think he made it clear he intends to focus on making the top 10% of income earners pay their fair share.

[pnwmom]

9. That's why I specifically mentioned the general election debates.

I hope he drops this point before he gets to the general, if he does.

[ThePhilosopher04]

3. It's only a "blooper" ...

if you're a Hillary supporter, and worried that he scored some points. As one who supports Bernie, I've been waiting for him to make this comparison. I thought the comment was pitch perfect, if not long overdue.

[beam me up scottie]

4. And these low information voters would pay attention to the joke because?

Your desperation to turn this into something negative is hilarious.

[azmom]

6. This poster has jumped the shark.

[beam me up scottie]

7. This poster is known for jumping the shark.

But she claims she's not a Hillary supporter.

[azmom]

12. That's even funnier than the

Lame OP.

[beam me up scottie]

18. I hope she didn't spend too much time on this.

[azmom]

5. Try harder

[LiberalArkie]

10. You mean this tax table from Ike's era. I was told that the $300,000 is about 4 Million today

[pnwmom]

11. That tax table would probably terrify lots of voters, if they didn't understand

the effects of inflation since then.

[LiberalArkie]

15. Probably could multiply everything by 10 and come close. So if you made less than $40,000

you paid no taxes using the old table.

[LiberalArkie]

20. I was trying to figure how the poverty line would figure into it, it might be less than $30,000

instead of $40,000

[LiberalArkie]

13. Here is 2013 tax rate

[merrily]

16. LOL! It was not sarcastic and not a blooper.

[arcane1]

17. So, it's wrong because some people won't understand it?

That makes absolutely zero sense. Would this absurdity applies to something like a doctor who knows medicine better than their patients? The only valid treatments are the ones the patients understand?

[pnwmom]

21. It's wrong when you laugh about something important many people will not understand.

Changing the tax structure is not wrong, but handing the opposition the rope to hang you with -- your own claim that the highest tax rate won't be as high as 90% (which leaves a lot of possibilities between 39.6 and 90) -- is never a good idea.

[arcane1]

23. My mistake, I didn't realize you were making this up n/t

[beam me up scottie]

28. LOL!

This thread is full of win!

[840high]

30. Your OP is a blooper.

[arcane1]

57. As I suspected, this is all an act. n/t

[dorkzilla]

56. We should never ever elevate the conversation! Mercy me!

We should only talk down to people like they're simpletons and use little teeeeny words so they'll understand. Plus math is hard!

[artislife]

19. This is a reach.

I cannot believe you made this an OP.

[pnwmom]

22. I think his blooper would be as important as Hillary's about Wall Street,

if he repeats it in the general election.

And I saw plenty of OP's about that.

[arcane1]

25. You think nothing of the sort n/t

[artislife]

26. His "blooper"

wasn't about taking a question on donors and then invoking 9/11 and then narrowing the victims to the monied class.

That was more than a "blooper" on H part.

Most of the news talks about the monied people who died, but remember the window cleaners, the dishwashers, the reception desk , the janitors...

It is rich privilege in a nutshell.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

31. Then maybe voters should get fucking educated!

I've been saying for years Eisenhower wouldn't even be allowed near today's GOP. Hell, he'd be radical by today's Democratic party standards. Simply because he and most Republicans at the time wouldn't recognize today's economic plank America rests on (Teetering on disaster!) after years of Reagan economics have gutted it and screwed the working man in favor of massive deregulation and cheap foreign labor!

But if the voters don't even know Ike's nickname? Fuck, we are truly done as a nation. Idiocracy has truly arrived.

[pnwmom]

33. Maybe candidates and their supporters should deal with reality and not expect

the whole electorate to change in time for the next election.

Think about it. Half of voters have IQ's below 100. And they have as much of a right to vote as college graduates. Candidates need to be careful that they express themselves in terms that people can understand -- at the very least, not say things that could be unnecessarily confusing.

Most voters don't understand about marginal tax rates, so they don't understand that the highest rates only apply to the amounts over a set level. There isn't time for Bernie supporters to explain all this. But Bernie doesn't have to make it worse by saying that his rate would be less than 90%. His rate would have to be a lot less than 90% because he's going to have to get it through Congress.

Why make people think it could be worse than it would be? What possible benefit is there to that?

[AZ Progressive]

55. Voters hold the leverage, not you. YOU have to educate them

[Fearless]

32. You're basically calling America stupid. Please stop.

[pnwmom]

34. Half of eligible voters have IQ's below 100, and a good fraction didn't get through high school.

There is no need to deliberately toss out jokes about 90% tax rates that couldn't possibly happen. Congress will never approve a tax rate anywhere close to 90%, so there is no purpose to alarming any segment of voters.

[Hepburn]

40. The half below 100 IQ are most likely Repuke voters and support tRump or Carson

Most of us expect better of Dems...apparently you do not.

[pnwmom]

43. Apparently you aren't aware that Republicans vote in the General election

and so do Independents. My post specifically referenced the general election.

Unfortunately, his sarcastic comment required an intelligence and knowledge of percentages and tax tables that too many potential voters might not have.

Especially if he is our candidate in the General Election. A crack like this in the general election debates would go completely over the heads of the majority of viewers. Almost all the Rethugs plus a good fraction of Democrats.

Congrats to everyone here who got the joke. Too many others would not.

[Fearless]

42. If they're as stoopid as you suggest, they didn't get the reference anyway.

[pnwmom]

44. That's the point. But they would hear the 90% tax rate part. And they would know

that 90% is a very big percent.

[Fearless]

47. Why would they have been watching the debate in the first place?

If said person actually existed?

[HereSince1628]

35. Yet, Politifact rep on tv said her organization rated that mostly true

[mmonk]

36. The impression I got from some of the derision of the attendees only showed me

how uninformed the American people are.

[deutsey]

37. Since Reagan, "taxes" has become the big political bogeyman in America

Reagan and Bush's tax "reforms" only benefit the elites. Unfortunately, too many average working people have been duped into believing that one day they're going to be rich and they won't want to get taxed when that happens. I actually know someone who has told me that.

It's too bad we haven't had an opposition party in this country over the past 30+ years offering a viable counter-argument to that crap.

[mmonk]

38. Correct

Except change decades to years.

[deutsey]

39. Thanks

I had 3 decades originally. Thanks!

[Juicy_Bellows]

45. Ed McMahon and Dick Clark have passed on.

The adorable squids in Mario Bros. games are the only "bloopers" left and they need not this grief.

[Betty Karlson]

49. Nice try, but the only thing everyone remembers from that debate

was "9/11 means my banker friends should not be regulated because then the terrorists win - oh and woman 9/11 too."

[tazkcmo]

51. Fainting couch

You can contact Lindsey to find out where to get a good one. I laughed then stopped when I heard "911!!! I am Woman!!! 911!!!

[1StrongBlackMan]

52. Posted to for later entertainment, as I assume this will be an interesting thread. n/t

[Hiraeth]

58. Lord knows, your comment alone has sure entertained me. So cute, you are.

[1StrongBlackMan]

59. Yes I am ... Well, Mrs. 1SBM has referred to me as being cute ... well, handsome ...

And, I pretty sure my Mom has, too!

[Kentonio]

53. I'm willing to bet the number of google searches for Eisenhower skyrocketed

And that's a good thing. Leaders are supposed to be educated, and encourage others to learn themselves, not just pander to the lower common denominator. It's exactly that kind of pandering that's led so many people these days to be happy in their ignorance, content that the world will make things as easy as possible for them without them having to bother learning anything.

[AZ Progressive]

54. Your right, Bernie is not as plainspoken as he needs to be. Bernie needs to appeal...

more than to just intellectual progressives. Most Americans don't know that much about history or civics or all these things about inequality, less math.

I don't get this about liberals and progressives that have a hard time being plainspoken, as if their audience is only people with IQ's above 115. Dammit, thats stupid in a regard because your missing about 84% of the population!



Politics is won by 51% of the vote, not by 16%!!! There are not enough intellectuals to win most elections.

[Romulox]

60. OP is confused, and this makes Bernie's words a "blooper"? I don't think so. nt