I don't trust Bernie

[MaggieD]

Now I am not saying he is lying about anything (although he may be playing some folks). But in my judgement he is simply unreliable on several issues that are very important to me.

- Racial justice versus social justice: I watched Bernie’s reaction to BLM at Netroots and in Seattle and HIS OWN campaign’s video from SC. In SC people told him the police give petty tickets to PoC and then arrest them if they cannot pay the fines. And he had said in that video that he had “no idea” that was going on.

How is he unaware of that? I knew that. Hillary knew that. Didn’t most of us know that, even before the DOJ Ferguson report? He is not paying attention, and clearly did not read the Ferguson report. Perhaps he did not read it because it’s simply not an issue he cares about. I’m white, but that is a deal breaker for me! Period.

- Women’s issues: Again, he just doesn’t seem interested beyond the bare minimum. He doesn’t talk about these issues near enough for me. And I have a hard time getting over the fact that he truly seemed to believe, at some point in his life, that woman fantasize about being raped.

- Guns: I don’t think I really need to explain this one. He has voted with the NRA far too many times for my tastes. I don’t trust that if he were elected he would make any effort to pass any gun control legislation.

- Foreign Policy / Terrorism: Again, he just seems out of his element on this issue, in the debate last night and in the last one as well (where he did even worse than last night). His idea on how to deal with Russia, China, and ISIS sound so naïve to me. And climate change is our biggest security threat? Wha? Sure, climate change is a significant issue, but we’ll all be dead before it becomes a “security threat.” I just can’t trust Bernie on FP.

- Wall Street: I think he is wrong about Glass Steagall (and yes, Warren, too – although I generally like her). I came to this conclusion long before Hillary stated it would not have prevented the melt down. I think she is exactly correct, and I was glad she had the guts to say so. Especially given that the popular thing would have been to go along with the crowd on that.

I’m a few years from retirement, and worked my ass off to save for it. I do not want Bernie messing with banks to no purpose. And I think Hillary’s plan would be more effective, and not put my retirement at risk. I just think Bernie is extreme on the banking issue. So I don’t trust his leadership on the issue.

- LGBT issues: This one is personal for me, and an area where I know he is revising history on his record. I was there. He did not do anything to help us gain marriage rights. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. He exhibited the same disinterest, and state’s rights argument they all did. And I was more than pleased to see the media finally point that out. It bugs the shit out of me that he would pretend to be some champion on an issue when that is definitely not true. I certainly can’t trust him on that issue.

Just don’t trust the guy. Bottom line.

[cantbeserious]

1. And This Voter Does Not Trust HRC - See The Six Questions

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251812060

[UglyGreed]

2. +1

[Weidman]

4. +1

[deutsey]

5. +1

[Jarqui]

9. +1

[beam me up scottie]

7. Yep.

I don't trust Hillary because she opposed marriage equality on moral grounds and lied about Saddam harboring Al Qaeda terrorists when she was promoting the Iraq war.

Those are the two biggest reasons, there are many more.

[PatrynXX]

88. and her massive Big Oil connections

that almost took over our ports (same company as Bush Jr.

I trust Trump slightly more . How odd. if Trump gets Nominated he'll win up against Hillary for sure.. So if the DNC wants 2004 all over again they are gonna get it.

[dflprincess]

14. Thank you nt

[nc4bo]

24. +1. nt

[liberalnarb]

218. I never actually knew what +1 meant on this site

[MaggieD]

29. I wasn't talking about Hillary

I was talking about Bernie. But thanks for kicking my thread.

[cantbeserious]

31. We Know - Others Find HRC Equally Untrustworthy - See The Six Questions

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251812060

[Logical]

90. Wow, what a silly OP! Desperate much? nt

[notadmblnd]

183. So he doesn't talk enough for you?

Talk is cheap and anyone can pay lip service. Have you bothered to look up his record and the actions he has taken, or is it easier to just throw crap out willy nilly?

[Ed Suspicious]

52. +1

[Duckhunter935]

65. +1

[MissDeeds]

76. +1

Not one bit.

[Live and Learn]

82. +1 nt

[tblue]

92. +1

[Betty Karlson]

102. Those, and a few more issues. Clinton is a follower, NOT a leader.

And as such, she cannot be trusted anymore than her advisers and her big donors.

[wilsonbooks]

106. +1

[LWolf]

107. +1

[Snotcicles]

115. +1.nt

[m-lekktor]

116. x 100000000000000000 !!! nt

[George II]

130. None of your cherry picked questions address terrorism, defense (except to reduce spending), ..

.....racial inequality, income inequality, etc. All you did was choose the issues that you want the Clinton campaign to address.

By the way, Sanders can't accomplish most, if not all, of what you're asking either.

[cantbeserious]

145. Terrorism Is Not An Issue For Ths Voter - Neocons Screwed The World - It Is Something We Live With

eom

[George II]

146. Thankfully you're not the only person who will be voting in a Primary or General Election.

[cantbeserious]

149. Thankfully - Others - Like Me - Will Be Voting - In The General Election

eom

[Sheepshank]

162. Not the first time cherry picking has been employed to create a false narrative

and even when called on it, double downed for some unknown reason.

[Locrian]

221. +1111

[FloridaBlues]

3. By his failing polling a lot of people would agree with you. Nice man but not ready to be the leader

[MaggieD]

30. Yep

[artislife]

6. oh kay.

[dreamnightwind]

8. And I don't trust you, or Hillary.

Bottom line.

[RandySF]

80. Yes, God forbid someone make a case against Bernie

without inflamming the tender nerves of his supporters.

[Doctor_J]

10. you trust Hillary more than Bernie?

[panader0]

20. "reeks of scummy slime" C'mon really?

[Yallow]

26. Telling The Truth 100% Of The Time

Really freaks some people out.

They are too used to "normal" politicians talking double speak full time.

[George II]

133. Did you see where Clinton was called a "whore" a few months ago? That wasn't hidden

[Doctor_J]

22. why are you still here?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=744715

A post like that about Clinton would have gotten anyone booted out

[Dragonfli]

57. Hillary Supporters are allowed certain privileges by the Admin that others are not

Other supporters, even longtime substantive posters, can expect to be occasionally banned without warning for posting an article from a liberal source even when posted without comment.

It is to be expected,t they are held to a different standard. They are basically immune from the hand of Administrators as has been evident for quite some time.

Even creating a conservative cave like site to discuss and coordinate attacks on DU posters while trolling here is not frowned upon. Once such cave dwellers were not welcome to invade and disrupt, but in this very special circumstance, it is, so one must simply accept it and await the banning of those they make a list of to harass.

I doubt I rate the list, until now.

[NanceGreggs]

98. This site is governed ...

... by a so-called "jury system".

This site is comprised of 85% BS supporters, 10% HRC supporters, and 5% undecideds.

Ergo, odds are that every "random" jury that's called to adjudicate a post is made up of a majority of BS supporters.

Given the aforementioned, it is rather ironic to hear how hard-done-by the Bernistas are on DU.

"Even creating a conservative cave like site to discuss and coordinate attacks on DU posters while trolling here is not frowned upon."

I hate to be the one to break the news, but DU and its posters are not really a big topic of conversation, and the notion that we spend our time "coordinating attacks" smacks more of paranoia than anything else.

"Once such cave dwellers were not welcome to invade and disrupt ..."

Oh, I guess you've forgotten how Old Elm Tree "dwellers" were more than welcome here to invade and disrupt, or how some extremely obvious RWers have been free to post here for years - you'd Better Believe It!

"They (HRC supporters) are basically immune from the hand of Administrators as has been evident for quite some time."

If it's so "evident", I'm sure you will have no trouble citing a few examples. Please do so.

[blackspade]

132. Where did you get those percentages from?

[Comrade Grumpy]

134. Good question. I see that figure often, but don't know what it is based on.

Did someone survey all 100,000+ members?

Is it based on a self-selecting DU survey with 200 responses?

Anybody?

[misterhighwasted]

141. K & R

[Renew Deal]

176. That was his fifth hide and he is now suspended

And I voted to hide.

Now go ahead and admit you are wrong.

[arcane1]

180. Finally a reason to celebrate on a Monday!

[Capt. Obvious]

186. Someone else on this thread got their 5th hide

[arcane1]

188. Even better!

[TM99]

190. I will try not to revel in

the schadenfreude.

[Dragonfli]

193. He will not be banned, even after repeated trolling nasty behavior

I do not believe I am wrong. It would take that to convince me.

I miss the days when cavers that gossiped about and trolled members here were not welcome.

I hated the CC and still do, but at least they have the guts not to hide their antics in private forums, they are more honest that way, they do it in public view; to our faces rather than behind our backs like this new cave obsessed with trolling DU members.

They should change their site name to the CentristCave, it would be more apt.

I will never likely agree with any Conservative, even the ones that call themselves "center", but if such are allowed to post here, they should be held to the same standards as any that lurk in a cave and act in a nasty and trollish fashion. They should get the boot for such behavior as was done in the past.

When they were civil and did not attack in packs intending to get members banned I used to simply argue against their regressive and hawkish views in discussion, but I don't much enjoy being a target for attack and insults that replace bad conservative arguments defending trickle down and illegal wars because that is not discussion.

There is a reason I seldom post here any more and intend to post almost never until things change (if they do), it is because trolls have become numerous and bold and are allowed to target and alert stalk members I have known for over ten years. This site is beginning to change into something much lower than it once was. It has lost some of it's troll filters.

[MrWendel]

189. Happened to me allot...

if you are a Hillary Supporter, you're automatically on notice.

[sheshe2]

99. Calling HRC a

C word stands. A Wh**e stands. Calling the President of the UNITED STATES a POS stands and is reced to the top of the page. Stands.

You ask this question about Moh.

why are you still here?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=744715A post like that about Clinton would have gotten anyone booted out

MohRokTah (10,503 posts)

80. Demanding people not say something is counter productive.
I DESPISE Sanders, solely because of his supporters.

I sure as hell hope you took offense to the ones I posted above.


No, sadly a post like that about Hillary would be a the top of the page. Yes, we both know that.

I guess you never saw the topics I posted above.

[misterhighwasted]

131. "Why are you still here?" Well I guess he's here for the same reason you are sir.

Why can't he be here?
C'mon worse things are said about HRC in GDP.
If you wade into GDP wear your thick skin. As we're often told.
Its GDP.

[Doctor_J]

144. Pray link to such things

I just find there is something about Sanders that reeks of scummy slime.

I DESPISE Sanders, solely because of his supporters.

You posted

C'mon worse things are said about HRC in GDP.

Point to a couple of them

[misterhighwasted]

148. give me some links to proove me wrong. I read nasty HRC attacks every day.

Meh

[Doctor_J]

159. You want me to prove no one's ever called HRC "scummy slime" on DU?

BY, say taking screen caps of every post that's ever been made in GDP and combining them in one post?

Wait. Here's one

Obama soared. Thanks hilary for being such a lying, pandering fighter for yourself when you didn't fight against bush one fucking iota.We wouldn't be in Iraq if hilary and the Dems fought against bush like hilary LIED against Obama. All these people wouldn't be DEAD.

Of course it's from one of Mrs. Clinton's biggest fans now. But you simply will not find a single post by a Sanders supporter that isn't related to issues.

[misterhighwasted]

174. HRC has been called the slimiest of degrading gender names. by sanders fans.

I see that its humorous to you.
I think its pretty sick.
"Ignore"

[Doctor_J]

179. link to one such post

[MaggieD]

36. Yes, not even a close call

She's got him beat in pretty much every area, IMO.

[tblue]

87. Seriously, right? I've followed both closely

for years and Bernie has earned my trust.

What an ugly thread and it's literally the first I've seen that said anything like that. I just read a few minutes ago that Bernie beats Hillary by over 20 points when it comes to the American people trusting him.

Does anyone really believe she'll go after the big banks that are literally bankrolling her right now?

[Doctor_J]

160. this poster never lasts more than a day or so between time-outs, but always manages to make the

least of her time.

[DianeK]

11. ok..i think we get it..you support Hillary

so what is the purpose of your OP?

[MaggieD]

37. The purpose of the OP

Was to describe the issues where I don't trust Bernie to be president.

[TM99]

184. Nah, it was just another OP for you

to recycle the memes.

You started right out with one. Neither Sanders nor his supporters have ever separated social and economic justice. That is a Clinton supporter ideology seen on these forums since May of this year.

Nice try.

Enjoy your brief stay.

[arcane1]

12. You play your role well.

Just kidding. You don't.

[Hiraeth]

15. excuse me but wtf. literally wtf. offensive to MEN and WOMEN. Kudos!

[Duckhunter935]

71. a post less offensive than that

got a long time member banned. Once again we see how some are more equal than others

[TheFarS1de]

195. It does seem that way

[Armstead]

19. Funniest post Ive seen today

From a totally neutral perspective that is a ridiculous statement. Suupport or opposition to both candidates is a mix of "cerebral and logical" interpretation and visceral response.

From a biased perspective, in terms of trustworthiness, I trust that Clinton will state all positions in a way that allows her to backtrack, and later say "Who me? I never said that." based in the political winds of the moment
.

[sheshe2]

16. Excellent post MaggieD

You are right, he seems to lack passion in many of the peoples issues he wishes to represent. He is supposed to be The President of all the people.

[Persondem]

18. Nice, thoughtful and respectful post. Well said.

I agree with much of what you wrote. Sanders is great for bringing up some important issues but not ready to be president.

K & R

[okasha]

21. But he's surging!

Downward.

Oooops.

[MaggieD]

40. LOL!

The idea that he won the debate last night seems absurd to me.

[DCBob]

23. The problem with Bernie is he's a one trick pony.

His comfort zone is economics and doesn't like to stray far from that. That doesn't work being President of United States, Commander in Chief and leader of the free world.

Excellent post!

[MaggieD]

25. Yep

Agreed. He's just doesn't have the depth we need in a president.

[nc4bo]

28. Can't remember exactly what was said about Obama

Probably SSDD. So he called on some one with more experience, Biden.

Big whoop-tee-doo.

[DCBob]

32. Candidate Obama was able to discuss any topic with incredible depth and intelligence.

Bernie is a lightweight in comparison.

[nc4bo]

33. Okie dokie :) nt

[MaggieD]

38. Yes, that's what I recall as well

[Cha]

111. He just rails at President Obama.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

81. Well

he was astute enough in foreign policy to vote against the IWR.

[BooScout]

27. Excellent, well thought out points concerning the issues most important to me as well.

Every single point you make addresses why I like Hillary better on the issues than Sanders. I don't think he grasps the issues much beyond being able to drag them under his Revolution umbrella, regardless of whether or not they fit under there.

[ismnotwasm]

34. Neither do I

While I no longer think he's a con man--as I once did--I thinks believes his own press.

[gwheezie]

35. I thought he'd expand his issues by now

I know he firmly believes his agenda. He hasnt changed his ideas in decades but I thought at this level of politics he'd have added to his repartee.
His points on income inequality are spot on but that's not the only problem we have.

[MaggieD]

39. Exactly the one note Charlie aspect

.... Just keeps rearing its head.

[Blue_In_AK]

41. Whatever.

I'm not totally convinced that Sec. Clinton can be trusted. In fact, I'm not convinced that ANY politician can be trusted.

[bettyellen]

77. I'm pretty sure I don't trust any of them 100%. It is was it is.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. It's interesting that you think of LGBT rights as being only about marriage equality when there

where so many years and issues that came before, also odd that since you define LGBT rights as being all about marriage that you support the candidate who is still defending DOMA while not trusting the one who voted against that bigoted piece of shit like many other inclusive and wise Democrats.

Hard to make sense of that sort of 'thinking'. Don't trust the candidate who voted against DOMA, do trust the candidate who is still making excuses for it.
Whatever floats your boat, kid. Whatever keeps your powder dry and your pocket full. I don't respect it, but whatever.

[MaggieD]

46. I think that because

I was there and he was no champion. Bernie knows that. It's just flat out bs.

Also, Hillary is not defending DOMA. Also in 2004 she lobbied other senators to vote against the amendment.

[okasha]

83. All true.

Some of us remember who our allies were, and who we never heard a peep from.

[Bluenorthwest]

113. I was there too, MaggieD, and I mean right smack in the middle and marriage equality was a later

years issue. Bernie has always been a champion of LGBT rights, going back to the days when we were jailed for being gay. He was a champion all through the times you seem to have skipped, the horrible years of the dawn of AIDS when we had almost no friends at all. Where were you during all of that?

The idea that you say 'marriage, I was there he was no champion' to others who were there who have asked you why you focus only on marriage to define decades of LGBT struggles that included enormous global life and death issues which seem to slip your mind.

And yes, she did in fact defend DOMA and what Bill did. She excused it, explained it way using incorrect bullshit statements.

I already knew Bill and Hillary when DOMA happened. I was THERE.

So what you need to do is present facts, not verbose bullshit. You don't even seem to know the basics of LGBT history, it's all marriage to you. But you are 'near retirement' so obviously old enough to predate the marriage debate, to have lived through many other battles. Which for some reason you are unable to talk about.

Anyone on DU wants to know facts about that era, I can PM them links. Not characterizations from nonparticipants. History. You can not make that same offer. History calls you out.

[MaggieD]

118. Really?

What did he do specifically? He voted our way. So did Hillary.

Hillary helped us raise money. She marched. She got us a good number of the senate votes against the constitutional amendment. And she spoke out for us internationally as SOS.

THAT is a champion. Your guy did none of that. None.

[Gloria]

43. Well, he skips the Iowa Fundraising BBQ for Dems

so, he becomes a Dem to get on the ballot and piggyback with the party.

...but refuses to go the BBQ.

Opportunistic ...

[MaggieD]

48. Really?

Hadn't heard that one.

[freshwest]

44. So much in your OP is important. But this:

Last edited Mon Nov 16, 2015, 12:08 AM - Edit history (2)

'In SC people told him the police give petty tickets to PoC and then arrest them if they cannot pay the fines'

[MaggieD]

47. He just said he was unaware that happened

Meanwhile it happens in many urban areas, particularly in the south. It's awful that he had no clue that goes on.

[freshwest]

61. He should have stayed down south after marching with MLK.

I knew this when I was a teenager, hell, everyone knew that the police made their quota in the 'colored areas' as they called them. Because they looked for those petty violations daily.

It also gave them a chance to abuse any black person, men, women and children. We all knew this!

I knew a good guy (white) that was interviewed by the cops to join up. They took him for a ride in the cruiser to show him what a typical day was like. All day long the cop was handing out tickets for stuff those going paycheck to paycheck have struggles with. Tail light and license plate lights, inspection stickers, stuff like that. I know these things are about safety.

I also knew, I had to be alert to not be caught when the price of living made it hard to do things perfectly.

He said he could NOT work with people who made their living that way and didn't take the job. We worked together for a few years. I'd had my own experiences with the local PD for my job. And their opinion of any woman, working or not, was that she was a no better than a prostitute. Real sleazy guys.

Nothing should be done to encourage them. I am glad to see that people in the campaign were not out to make that happen, if it is only Sanders you're talking about here. That's a relief.

I'll edit my post. I wasn't going to answer anyone but you as I won't argue with that stuff. Thanks.

[Thinkingabout]

45. K & R

He does not have the foreign experience needed in today's world. Has a problem staying on subject, he gives a off the subject answer. I would like for him to answer the question at least a few times.

[coyote]

152. As opposed to "we came, we saw, he died" foreign policy.

Brilliant!!!!

[Thinkingabout]

154. His answer was dancing off on something else because of his lack of foreign affairs ability.

He was in a debate which was to show voters of his ability, he missed miserably. End of story.

[Eric J in MN]

49. Bernie Sanders has a great record for 30 years.

His record is worthy of trust.

Planned Parenthood trusts him on women's issues:

In a tweet, Planned Parenthood Action Fund wrote, “There’s another feminist running for president and here’s HIS record to prove it.”

They noted, “@BernieSanders is #InOurCorner.”
http://www.mrctv.org/blog/planned-parenthood-praises-feminist-bernie-sanders

Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) was the chairman of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs.

He said about Congress, "The banks own this place."

If you're against Glass-Steagall, whatever. But it's braver for a US Senator to support it.

Bill Clinton's position on Glass-Steagall is that it wouldn't have been needed if GEORGE W BUSH had regulated the banks better, as a Democratic administration would have.

That's different from saying that the repeal of Glass-Steagall had nothing to do with the 2008 financial problems.

Even Hillary Clinton conceded last night, "Reinstating Glass- Steagall is a part of what very well could help, but it is nowhere near enough."

[MaggieD]

50. I don't see it that way

I'm not saying he'd be horrible on most of these issues. I just don't trust that he cares much about most of them. I think he's just wrong on Wall Street.

[Eric J in MN]

53. The ratings of Bernie Sanders

NARAL Pro-Choice America - Positions 100%

Planned Parenthood Action Fund - Positions captured January 9, 2014 (reflect past 6 years' voting record) 100%

Human Rights Campaign - Positions on Marriage 100%

League of Conservation Voters - Senate Special Edition 100%

https://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/27110/bernie-sanders#.VklTtF42ffc

Besides your disagreement with him on Glass-Steagall, what are you predicting a President Bernie Sanders may do wrong?

[MaggieD]

58. He should stay in the senate

I have no problem with his votes except on guns. But i don't trust his breadth of knowledge and I don't think he cares much about some issues that are important to me.

[okasha]

91. Guns and the ghastly F-35.

[SunSeeker]

208. And his vote for the Homeland Security amendment legitimizing racist Minuteman militias.

That is one no Bernie supporter has been able to rationalize, although they hid at least one OP for bringing it up.

[okasha]

213. They can't rationalize it,

so they simply deny it.

[jalan48]

51. If you are close to retirement

Bernie wants to raise Social Security and opposes the chained CPI, something Obama was ready to negotiate with the Republicans on. I support Bernie for his stand on these issues.

[Eric J in MN]

54. I'm glad you brought up Chained CPI

...because i'ts one of the biggest things I'm skeptical of Hillary Clinton about.

I wish a reporter would ask her about it, but as far as I can tell, none have.

[jalan48]

67. If Obama is any indication it's something centrist Democrats support.

[MaggieD]

56. I am not relying on SS

Didn't plan my retirement savings around it. I think it's foolish to do that. Instead I lived below my means and saved. And I'm sure not voting for someone who wants to raise middle class taxes right about the time I finally have retirement on my own dime in my sights.

[jalan48]

66. I see.

Good for you. Unfortunately, there are a lot of seniors out there who could use that raise, plus it's good for the economy. Bernie's idea of cutting the military budget and putting that money in social programs appeals to me.

[MaggieD]

68. Bernie is a huge MIC supporter

I don't trust him on that either.

[jalan48]

70. I think someone has been giving you bad information.

[MaggieD]

73. Nope - I knew that before he even announced

You're the one with bad info. His support for the f-35 shows he is all about the MIC.

[jalan48]

95. Ok-good luck with your retirement.

[tex-wyo-dem]

100. Good for you, MaggieD...

At least you got yours.

[SoapBox]

55. Then it looks like it will be O'Malley...

Because I sure as hell have zero trust in Clinton.

No way...ever.

[MaggieD]

62. No worries

I honestly don't think what anyone on DU thinks is going to matter much in the scheme of things. It's certainly an outlier when compared to the average Dem primary voter.

[2pooped2pop]

74. yes. Hillary has a feel of

Omg not Bush! Now I know she is not Bush and she is better than an outright republican. But still there is a panicked feeling like an undercover republican warning that I feel when I think of her as president.

[Scootaloo]

59. "we’ll all be dead before it becomes a “security threat.” "

Well okay then.

[passiveporcupine]

60. although he may be playing some folks

No, he's not playing anyone. The fact that you would even suggest that shows how cynical you are. You cannot believe in someone who is truly in this for the people instead of money or power.

I'm sorry you are unable to be part of this movement because of your cynicism...but you are truly missing out on a phenomenal movement, a spectacular moment in time. A time that has finally come and the people are ready to fight for what is right. And Bernie will lead us, with no ulterior motive. Sometimes people just do great things because it's the right thing to do.

[Thespian2]

78. Excellent response...

[tex-wyo-dem]

101. ^^ this! ^^

[moobu2]

63. The way he talks about himself as if he was talking about another person

gives me the creeps. Very strange.

[MaggieD]

69. That too

[SunSeeker]

209. Yup, Bob Dole did that too.

I think it's an ego thing, they see themselves as bigger than life. I've never heard a female politician refer to herself in the third person.

[Unknown Beatle]

64. Really?

So do you actually think that Wall St. and big banks fought hard to get Glass–Steagall Act repealed because it was good for the common folks?

Bernie was for LGBT rights before Hillary was.

[MaggieD]

72. Wrong on both

Like I said, Hillary is right about Glass. Putting it back won't solve anything. And worse, it will lead people to think it's a solution.

Bernie voted right when votes came up. So did Clinton. He's claiming to be some champion and he just wasn't. I was there. That's a BS meme.

[a2liberal]

86. ...

[Dragonfli]

96. Hillary's thoughts on marriage equality (until 2013)

The poster you are responding to doesn't know much about How late Ms Clinton was to a non-bigoted view of marriage equality.

[cherokeeprogressive]

75. yawn

[MaggieD]

79. Thanks for the kick!

[cherokeeprogressive]

84. yawn

[riversedge]

108. good post MaggieD

In solidarity

[Cha]

110. Really. they can keep yawning with the kicks!

[LovingA2andMI]

85. Umm...Like

[tblue]

89. Does anyone really believe she'll go after the big banks that are literally bankrolling her?

I'm a woman, I'm black/biracial and I believe in Bernie. Someday maybe you'll find out what it's like to work 40+ years to benefit people other than yourself only to have someone say they don't trust you. 👎🏾

[Chitown Kev]

93. Well...in part this OP is how I feel

anyone who wants to run for the democratic nomination for President knows that they need to get lots of POC voters...in some states in the South, POC voters are the majority of Dems.

From jump street, the Sanders team has not seemed to have any strategy (or idea) to reach those voters.

If you are going up against Hillary Clinton, you MUST have that strategy. One thing in Obama's favor, in that respect, is that he had that strategy...in part because he is black, yes, but being from Chicago, I can tell you that wasn't always all that easy for Obama either.

[bravenak]

94. Glad to see you back!

I agree!

[MaggieD]

124. Glad to be back!

Thanks.

[Jamaal510]

97. A crucial flaw

I see in his campaign (and one that I'm surprised more people don't mention) is how he acts as if he'd be able to solve the problems facing the country just by getting elected president and/or galvanizing millions of people to "march" in DC. His response to the revolution question last night was also vague. Maybe he discussed this previously and I didn't catch it, but I have yet to hear him talk about what people are going to have to do to realistically help his agenda be carried out (e.g. voting in both presidential and off-year elections, and contacting their reps regularly). He is essentially simplifying a complex process. He and other politicians need to call on people to become more politically active. Too many Americans are apathetic about voting and believe that both parties are similar despite countless evidence to the contrary, that it doesn't make a difference, and they expect heroes to solve issues in one fell swoop.

[MaggieD]

125. He's either grossly naive

Or deliberately playing people.

If it wasn't all about him he'd be on a crusade to stop gerrymandering.

[Fearless]

103. You're lying about LGBT issues. I know this as a fact. It's a complete fabrication

Makes me wonder what else in that post was fake.

Makes me wonder a lot.

[MaggieD]

119. No, I'm not

But typical for his supporters to call someone a liar. Whatever.

[lovemydog]

104. On the banks issue, I understand if you like

Hillary's plan better. However, breaking up the biggest banks would not put your retirement savings at risk. The assets of big banks are insured and reinsured. The banks that would be broken up would still be insured by the FDIC. He's not talking about seizing their assets and using the cash reserves for some other purpose.

The idea behind breaking up the biggest banks is because they are monopolies. It's to protect your savings by making them less at risk, not more at risk. And to allow credit unions and banks that charge lower interest rates to have a better chance to thrive. And to prevent banks from commingling investment banking with more traditional banking. So the public won't have to bail them out and will be less likely to be screwed by them.

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents on that one issue. Hope you enjoy a good week.

[Cha]

105. bernie's been busted about saying he's a Longtime Champion of Marriage Equality

"Bernie Sanders Claims He’s a Longtime Champion of Marriage Equality. It’s Just Not True."

snip//

And as recently as 2006, Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont. The senator may have evolved earlier than his primary opponents. But the fact remains that, in the critical early days of the modern marriage equality movement, Sanders was neutral at best and hostile at worst.

Ten years later, Sanders took a similarly cautious approach to same-sex marriage. In 2006, he took a stand against same-sex marriage in Vermont, stating that he instead endorsed civil unions. Sanders told reporters that he was “comfortable” with civil unions, not full marriage equality. (To justify his stance, Sanders complained that a battle for same-sex marriage would be too “divisive.”) At the time, he also opposed a federal anti-gay-marriage amendment—but so did his Republican opponent for the Senate seat, Richard Tarrant, who also supported civil unions. With a wide lead in the polls and little at stake, Sanders declined to differentiate himself from his opponent by taking the lead on gay rights.

Earlier in his political career, Sanders was even more indifferent toward gay rights: As mayor of Burlington in 1990, Sanders told an interviewer that LGBT rights were not a “major priority” for him. Asked if he would support a bill to protect gays from job discrimination, Sanders responded, “probably not.” That was 25 years ago. Sanders has, no doubt, come a long way since then: The senator endorsed Vermont’s successful Marriage Equality Act in 2009 and has cheered the Supreme Court’s marriage rulings. And he is co-sponsoring the Equality Act, a sweeping federal LGBT rights bill that advocacy groups place high on their post-marriage agenda.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html

He acts like he doesn't think people can check on his history.. same with his saying he "didn't work against President Obama when it's all out there and People are noticing.. especially the President's Black Coalition.

I can see why you don't trust him.. you're not the one who's "lying" as that BS fan proclaims.

[MaggieD]

120. Exactly

I spent many years of my life on this issue. Pretty sure I would have noticed if Saint Bernie had been there.

[Cha]

181. Not only was he not there he was not helping.. and then to have him say otherwise is the kicker.

Turns out it's a pattern for the bern.

[NurseJackie]

109. Great post. Thanks! (nt)

[R B Garr]

112. Great post. I don't trust him either.

He's had his whole life to start this "revolution", but he waits 'til now. He should have been doing what O'Malley is doing and started much younger so he can groom himself along the way for a national spotlight, which is much different than a small safe state. He's all generalized platitudes. Hating billionaires is not a policy proposal; it's just applause lines. Hillary Clinton talked about the billionaire class years ago at the 2008 Democratic convention. I just am not by impressed by his instant revolution.

You bring up some good explanations as to why you don't trust him. They really resonate and make sense. He just can't be bothered with many things and that attitude really comes through.

[pinebox]

114. So you don't trust Bernie yet you trust a candidate who has lied?

-From taking sniper fire to helping the northern Ireland peace process?

-You don't trust Bernie yet you trust the "corporate candidate" who was for it before she was against it? KXL, LGBT rights, DOMA, DADT, TPP, the Iraq war.

-You don't trust Bernie but you trust the candidate who isn't for a living wage?

-You don't trust Bernie but you trust the candidate who has done less for women than he has?
http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/08/feminists-case-for-bernie-sanders.html
http://mic.com/articles/119074/5-times-bernie-sanders-spoke-the-feminist-truth#.m5rE4UPcG
http://www.bustle.com/articles/96275-is-bernie-sanders-a-feminist-he-has-yet-to-identify-as-one-but-his-views-tell
http://www.bustle.com/articles/96275-is-bernie-sanders-a-feminist-he-has-yet-to-identify-as-one-but-his-views-tell

-You don't trust Bernie but you trust a candidate who supported the biggest foreign policy blunder of all time which cost over 100,000 lives?

-You don't trust Bernie on Glass-Steagall and instead trust the candidate who hasn't even released a plan with hwat she wants to replace it with?

-You don't trust Bernie on LGBT rights and instead trust the person who just came out 18 months ago in favor of same sex marriage and who defended DOMA, DADT and went ape shit insane over about changing passports for same sex parents? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-same-sex-passports_560c68e6e4b076812700bf06
Really? REALLY?

[Capt. Obvious]

117. You're back with a bang

O/U of 5.5 days.

[MaggieD]

121. And every hide was BS

And based solely on my support for Clinton. Believe me, I was more than happy to advertise my transparency page to prove it.

[Capt. Obvious]

126. Sure it is

I'm taking the under.

[MaggieD]

127. Tell me which one you think was the least bit legit?

I'll wait.

[Capt. Obvious]

128. It's all a conspiracy to silence you

and force you to go post at Bill's site.

[MaggieD]

129. Wow, I don't think this is even debatable at this point

There has been a concerted effort here to silence Clinton supporters. And I'm not naive enough to believe you haven't noticed. Save the CT accusations.

[Comrade Grumpy]

135. Paranoia is not becoming, although it has a long tradition in American politics.

If you post conspiracy theories about the evil Bernie supporters trying to shut you down, you will be accused of being a conspiracy theorist.

[MaggieD]

138. Oh come on

In this thread alone I am called a liar and a jury says that is okay. Clinton is called a whore and a jury says that is okay. The jury system here is rigged to let Bernie supporters post any rude thing they like.

On the other hand Hillary supporters get hides simply for posting quotes from Bernie that are less than flattering even when they don't add a comment. Or a news article without comment from Forbes for goodness sakes.

Let's stop pretending. Sound good?

[Capt. Obvious]

137. Everyone I talk to says there's a conspiracy

therefore it's a conspiracy.

[MaggieD]

139. Not a conspiracy

Well planned and obvious. I don't see any attempt to hide it except by you.

[Capt. Obvious]

140. Well planned and obvious is the definition of conspiracy

[MaggieD]

143. Uh no

a·cy
kənˈspirəsē/
noun
a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
"a conspiracy to destroy the government"
synonyms: plot, scheme, plan, machination, ploy, trick, ruse, subterfuge; informalracket
"a conspiracy to manipulate the results"

Nothing secret about it here.

[Capt. Obvious]

147. If there was a second alerter, then by definition there had to be a conspiracy.

[MaggieD]

150. Not grasping the defintion, I see

LOL!

[Capt. Obvious]

151. Who benefits from silencing Clinton supporters?

Who has the power to cover it up? Who?

[AgingAmerican]

220. Two of her cohorts got 5th hides in this thread

Because of vile and insulting comments. One should have been a ban, but no ban. It's a conspiracy of shooting themselves in the foot.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

165. And everyone in prison is innocent, I tell you, INNOCENT!

Look up "delusions of grandeur".

[MaggieD]

166. Well let me know which ones were legit and why

I'd love to hear all about it.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

168. You mistake me for someone who gives enough of a fuck to actually look at the posts.

I do not.

I've had plenty of posts hidden too. I didn't whimper about any of them. Police yourself, or we'll do it for you. That applies to every last one of us.

[misterhighwasted]

122. Big K & R I and millions of people Agree with your opinion.

Great post.
This is the very reason Mr Sanders remains far behind Hillary Clinton. Her numbers reflect the truth of your well stated opinion, as well as those who have stood with her in lending their name & support through their sound endorsements.
Thanks for your most truthful post.
^H^

[MaggieD]

123. You're welcome

And yes, I think many, many people feel the same.

[AgingAmerican]

136. Sure ya dont

[MaggieD]

158. I definitely don't

Don't trust him at all, as I explained. But thanks for kicking my thread.

[Sheepshank]

142. I realize you were making well thought out statements

that were respectfully made.

But I had one more that for me was important. Bernie's leadership, executive and adminsitrative abilities is somewhat of an unknown. We don't know what he can actually acheive, but I do know that when the need arises, he changes his mind. He and his acolytes make such a huge deal of his being the same then and now, that when I do see these changes, the walk back, the justifications, twisting statements it's quite shocking. For me, and I can only speak for me....this inability to actually lead, is too big of an unknown.

[brentspeak]

153. "MaggieD", posting in May 2015: "My 22 yr son says that young people tune Bernie out"

http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6694844

MaggieD (3,588 posts)
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:12 PM

My 22 year old son on Bernie versus HRC

Now Bernie supporters don’t flip out. He would love to see a socialist as president. He would also love to see a woman as president. So he’s pretty damn happy that both are running.

A short background on my kid. He is very politically savvy for his age. I started taking him to meetings with Democrats and other liberal policy advocacy gatherings from the time he was about 9 years old. He would sit and do his homework, but he also absorbed a lot, and on top of that politics was a regular conversation at our house.

Once, he was at a meeting and someone asked if anyone else had anything to say. And he piped up. His comments were very well received. That led to him being asked, when he was 12, to give a short 5 minute speech at a Dem fundraiser attended by about 1000 people, including several senators, two governors, and a boatload of congress people. He got a standing ovation. He knows his politics.

He’s also a musician, and with that comes lots of friends. I think he has something like 4000 on Facebook, most of whom he has actually met. He is one of those people you would call a “connector.”

So he was visiting last night and I asked him what he thinks the vibe is on the candidates among young people he knows. He said no one cares about the attacks on HRC. That the attacks just makes her look more formidable. To him, they all blend in with the right wing attacks she has endured for decades. Whatever, is his view point.

I asked him if he thought Bernie could win. He said, no. Maybe 10% chance, if that. I asked him why not and his answer was surprising. At least to me. He said Bernie’s voice is grating, and every time he speaks he sounds like he is grandpa lecturing at you, and people his age just tune him out. He said he “doesn’t inspire my crowd.” He was clearly kind of bummed about that.

I think Bernie needs to work on the charisma thing a bit.

Like me, he would vote for either of them. But that is his take on things as they stand now.

Meanwhile, in the real world:







For that and a much more obvious reason, no one here should "trust" a word you say concerning yourself, others, or, especially Bernie.

[MaggieD]

155. And I stand by that, plus an update

He had a bunch of friends over the other day. I asked them if any of them cared about Hillary's Iraq war vote. They all said nope.

Most of his friends don't give a rat's ass about politics. And the data bears that out. They are the least reliable voting demographic in the United States.

Do you trust data? I do.

[brentspeak]

156. You've got some fanciful stories

They're pretty amusing.

[MaggieD]

157. Are you calling me a liar?

We've already seen in this thread that it's okay if you are a Bernie supporter, so don't be shy. Just come out and say it.

[LostOne4Ever]

161. Your points, especially on LGBTQ issues, are Bull**** nt

[MaggieD]

164. Nope

They both voted the right way. A "champion" would be someone who helped us raise money, helped get other members of congress to vote against the proposed constitutional amendment, marched with us, and spoke out on our behalf internationally.

That describes what Hillary did. Bernie did nothing but vote the same way Hillary did. He was no champion. I was there. He was absent and blathering on about state's rights.

You don't get to rewrite history on that. Not with me, anyway.

But thanks for kicking my thread. Always appreciated!

[LostOne4Ever]

172. Again all your points are bull****

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Sanders issued a letter back in the seventies calling on the abolishment of all laws discriminating against people based on sexuality.



He Promoted gay pride marches in Burlington as Mayor, he defended LGBTQ soliders in the 90's, and voted against DOMA. He supported Civil Unions and full marriage equality. Bernies Sanders has a perfect to near perfect score card from the Human Right Campaign...something Hillary can't claim.

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-lgbtq-rights/

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Civil_Rights.htm#Gay_Rights
http://www.ontheissues.org/Bernie_Sanders.htm#Civil_Rights

Clinton didn't even support gay marriage till 2013. She publicly said she would have supported DOMA, and said marriage was between a man and woman in the past.

AND SHE EVEN THREW LGBTQ+ ISSUES UNDER THE BUS RECENTLY just because she was scarred of the response from FOX NEWS. Not the electorate...fox news.

She and her husband have thrown LGBTQ+ issues under the bus time and time again. And then they try to rewrite history to claim they were allies...when in truth they betrayed the LGBTQ+ community and THEN CAMPAIGNED ON THAT BETRAYAL!!!

Sorry, but Sanders and O'Malley are impeccable on LGBTQ+ rights. Your candidate can't compare. And no amount of historical revisionism on your part will change that.

And given the recent defeat of HERO I will GUARANTEE you that she will throw Transrights down under the bus next. I will NOT vote for her in the primary. If she wins the primary I will give her the most unenthusiastic vote in history.

Your thread was already toward the top when I posted.[/font]

[MaggieD]

173. Thanks, but I don't need the straight 'splain version

I was actually in the thick of it, and he was no where to be found. You can go along with the revisionist history. But you can't force me not to mention it is baloney. Sorry.

[LostOne4Ever]

175. I am not straight, and you are the one revising history as the evidence proves.

Last edited Mon Nov 16, 2015, 05:18 PM - Edit history (1)

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Pretend otherwise all you want, you can't erase History.

Reality is reality no matter how much you dislike it. No objective person is going to be fooled.[/font]


*Aro Ace for the record. The A in LGBTQIA+.

[MaggieD]

177. Really? Have we met?

Can you be specific about all the times Bernie did any of the things I said Hillary did? Please do tell. I think I would have recognized him had he been around.

[LostOne4Ever]

185. Appeal to ignorance fallacy

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Just because you don't know of his actions doesn't mean they don't exist. Further I gave you links which includes sanders on the house floor defending LGBTQ soldiers at a time when Hillary still opposed gay marriage and right before she and her husband campaigned on signing DOMA.

The Clintons, What great champions of LGBTQ rights.

And they DON'T have the same voting record or the human rights campaign would have given her a perfect score too..[/font]

[MaggieD]

187. No, I would have known

I was on the board of a huge LGBT political advocacy org. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[LostOne4Ever]

191. Then you should have paid more attn nt

[MaggieD]

192. I was paying attention

He was absent.

[LostOne4Ever]

194. Evidence points otherwise. Thus, You just didn't pay attention.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Just because you are ignorant of it doesn't make reality go away.[/font]

[MaggieD]

196. He yelled at a republican congressman for saying "homos in the military"

So explain to me how that functionally helped a single LGBT person? I think our problem is that you have an odd definition of the word "champion."

While Bernie was yelling at a guy many of us were taking our families into the halls of congress and meeting with actual legislators to show them that that we were no different than any other families.

And Hillary was attending large fundraisers, and speaking to her colleagues to get us votes TO SAVE OUR FAMILIES. And advocating for us all over the world.

So please, please, please stop telling me Bernie was some champion on this issue. It is simply not true.

[LostOne4Ever]

197. No you stop telling us that a man who has always voted and supported gay rights

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Is in some way LESS of a champion of LGBTQ rights than a woman who only gave a shit about LGBTQ rights the moment it support went over 50%. A man who made statements of support for sexual minorities going back to the 1970's.

You quit trying to PRETEND a woman who CAMPAIGNED with her husband on his SIGNING DOMA is a bigger Champion of LGBTQ rights than a man who VOTED IT DOWN.[/font]

"Hillary attendeding fundraisers"

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Yeah cause she was pandering. When it mattered she wasn't there. When it mattered she was in front of CONGRESS saying that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is part of the reason her score from the HRC scorecard is so much lower than Sanders...cause she occasionally was voting against the interest of promoting LGBTQ rights!

Some way of "SAVING OUR FAMILIES!" By talking before all her colleges insisting that only men and women should have the right to get married. Meanwhile, the man you hate so much VOTED DOWN DOMA. Publically supported Civil Unions and Gay Marriage as your "champion" sent emails complaining about LGBTQ inclusive form because "fox news."

But his standing before all his colleges and defending the honor of LGBTQ soliders is meaningless to you.

No, YOU STOP.

What you are saying is outright offensive to people who actually care about LGBTQ+ rights. It is a lie and you should be ashamed of yourself. It is lower than the people trying to make a fake scandal out of Clintons emails. It swiftboat level.

She and her husband have time and time again thrown LGBTQ rights under the bus. That is not what champion does. AND MARK MY WORDS, if she is elected and a trans issue comes up she will throw us under the bus again. Cause that is what she has always done. Bernie on the other hand has always stood for LGBTQ rights.

And I now done with you and your sick character assassination of an actual LGBTQ champion. Bernie Sanders.[/font]

[MaggieD]

198. Why pretend he was a champion?

I'm going to be brutally real with you here. The ONLY coalition Bernie has ever been interested in is his pet issue about income inequality and classism. That's it.

He hasn't participated in or tried to build coalitions with people like LGBT, PoC, Latinos, Teachers, etc. He hasn't even worked well with congress. This is why the vast majority of the coalitions and congressional endorsements are going with Hillary. She has done all that. And that is how you (and coalitions) gain power and win elections for candidates that will advance your interests.

Please stop telling me he was there. He just has no interest in anything but his pet issue. Never has.

[LostOne4Ever]

199. BULLSHIT

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Up is not down. Night is not day. And the person who always voted for LGBTQ rights is not against them.

Everything you have posted is BULLSHIT![/font]

[MaggieD]

200. Nope - it's the truth

And the facts support it.

[LostOne4Ever]

202. The facts have shown everything you have said to be BULLSHIT

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]The fact that you ignore voting records, and actual video of the candidates proves it.

Take your double speak to people with an IQ lower than 2. No one is buying it here.

You should be ashamed of yourself.[/font]

[MaggieD]

203. Nope - they show the opposite

More unions supporting her, more PoC, more latinos. Just a fact.

[LostOne4Ever]

204. No that proves name recognition and that they think she is likely to win

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Your logic is once again based on fallacies.

FACTS:

Sanders has supported LGBTQ rights since the 70's
Sanders has voted pro-LGBTQ his entire career
Sanders supported Civil Unions and ME long before Clinton
Sanders has 100% score from the HRC and Clinton doesn't.
Clinton Supported DOMA
Clinton and her husband campaigned on Supporting DOMA
Clinton only voiced support for ME once polls were over 50%
Clinton flushed LGBTQ concerns over forms down the toliet out of fear of Fox

Final Fact: Clinton has always been an opportunist on LGBTQ issues and Sanders was always for Gay Rights. So you have to try and come up with contrived bullshit like endorsements to try and pretend none of the above is true.

If she was a champion of LGBTQ she would have come OUT BEFORE public support changed. She didn't. She actually went before congress and claimed marriage was between a man and a woman. She Supported DOMA. A CHAMPION DOES NOT DO THAT.

She behaved as either an Opportunist or a bigot. Your choice. But not a champion of LGBTQ rights. She actively harmed LGBTQ rights. You can't deny that.

Everything is double speak from you. The person who ACTUALLY SUPPORTED LGBTQ issues and voted and spoke out about them isn't for them, the women who attacked LGBTQ causes is for them. Up is down, Day is night, and good is bad. Pure double speak.

CAUSE YOUR CANDIDATE SUCKS ON LBGTQ ISSUES. Her history and record are bad. She is either a bigot or someone who will throw them under the bus. THE FACTS PROVE THIS.[/font]

[DisgustipatedinCA]

163. And your bona fides, besides character assassination of Sanders here the last 4 months or so?

Are you able to state why I should believe that your words are of any value on this topic? You haven't demonstrated that you're someone who should be regarded as a serious person with respect to presidential politics.

[MaggieD]

167. They are just as good as yours - right?

Or those of any other poster here. Correct?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

169. For some they may be, but I hold myself to a higher standard.

I'm not self-loathing enough to give your words any credence.

[MaggieD]

170. Really?

I can't say I agree that you do.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

171. Didn't we already establish that your opinion doesn't matter to me?

I've seen what you're about on DU. I cannot feel other than the way I do, and I won't try.

[MaggieD]

178. So why do you think yours should matter to me?

I'm just curious.

[MADem]

182. I agree with you, for those very reasons you articulated.

He's JUST a POLITICIAN. Like every other politician.

And he's just a politician who is not strong enough on the issues of importance to me.

[Cosmic Kitten]

201. BASH BASH BASH!!!!

[Gothmog]

205. No one has provided me with an explanation as to how Sanders can compete in general election

Sanders does not appear to be able to compete in the general election

[SunSeeker]

210. He's not exactly killing it in this primary either. nt

[William769]

206. Kick & highly recommended!

[SunSeeker]

207. Bernie outright lied at the debate Saturday night.

Mr. Sanders: “I have never heard a candidate, never, who has received huge amounts of money from oil, from coal, from Wall Street, from the military-industrial complex, not one candidate say, oh, these campaign contributions will not influence me. I’m going to be independent. Well, why do they make millions of dollars of campaign contributions? They expect to get something. Everybody knows that. Once again, I am running a campaign differently than any other candidate. We are relying on small campaign donors, 750,000 of them, 30 bucks apiece. That’s who I’m indebted to.” 

Mrs. Clinton: “Well John, wait a minute. Wait a minute, he has basically used his answer to impugn my integrity. Let’s be frank here.” 

Mr. Sanders: “No, I have not.” 

So he says Hillary will be "influenced" and "indebted" by her financial industry donors, but when she called him on it, he said no, that's not inpugning her integrity. Pretty cowardly moment for him not to own his attack on Hillary.

[Sancho]

211. Yes, Bernie is dishonest about a bunch of things and this exchange was just one.

The real truth is that Bernie makes a proclamation about "taking money", but he knows full well his vote is is "for sale" - and not simply with contributions. We can't put links on DU (including mainstream media, green publications, local publications, etc.) because they will be hidden with false alerts because of the dysfunctional jury system, but there's plenty of evidence.

When it comes to guns/gun manufacturers, Bernie knows he benefits if the gun money either goes after his opponent or simply does not fund an opponent. He can rationalize a conservative position and protect the gun industry with little obvious connection. It's ok to have the family leave system of Scandinavia, but not the gun control of Scandinavia??

When it comes to big sugar, Bernie knows he can benefit from contributions even if his vote is not socially just or a direct connection. It certainly is not a big loser for him in Burlington so he gets away with it. Bernie is enough of a politician that he calculates when to take a loud stand for media purposes (knowing it won't matter in the end); and when to quietly alter his voting position to gain a benefit (where he carefully concocts a reason just in case he's called on it). Maybe smart, but not revolutionary.

Bernie courted the F35 and parts of the MI for years, and played up every chance to be seen with the troops; but compromised his "principles" and went against many of the local Vermonter's value choice. Even his famous "Iraq vote" was really an abnormality in a mixed record of support/non-support for military actions. At best he waffles and plays the game.

Bernie knows that Wall Street is waiting for an FTT!!! Haha - the rich won't pay a penny more income tax, but every retirement fund in the country will now take money out of the pockets of the middle class, so all those union contracts and public employees will make up the difference in their paycheck. It's a backroom deal that Wall Street loves.

Free tuition for everyone, except there's no tuition equity for undocumented immigrants or even a statute that you must admit the undocumented to every public college; even if they were brought here as kids. Are their "illegal" parents forced to risk deportation by filing out financial disclosure forms with the college application? It's a social justice nightmare pretending that economic justice trumps all (pun intended)!

Bernie wants to play like he's a Democrat, but not really put in the time and effort to be a Democrat. He's a classic grasshopper who loudly plays while the ant works for the future (analogy intended). The examples are numerous and Bernie as President is a fairytale.

I've listened to Bernie for years on Thom Hartman, so I knew who he was long before he ran for President. I would have said the same thing years ago. He tells a good progressive tale, but he is 90% politician and 10% revolutionary. If you listen long enough, you'll see that Bernie does not walk on water (metaphor intended)!

This primary has made it objectively clear that Bernie is not the best candidate for me, whether you like Hillary or not. I always vote straight Democrat, but Bernie has consistently moved lower on my list as this campaign has continued due entirely to his own words and investigation of his background.

[MaggieD]

216. +1 to all that

[stevenleser]

212. 401K and retirement accounts are the first thing I though of when Bernie said

that the business of Wall Street is fraud.

Sweeping negative generalizations like that make you look really bad to whomever knows better, and that means a large percentage of voters who, like you and I are upset at certain segments of Wall Street but don't paint the entirety of it with such a broad brush.

I feel similarly to you I would phrase it as having no confidence in him. These kinds of statements are part of the reason. Accusations and punishments should always be narrowly focused on the guilty or those whom we believe we have specific evidence indicating they are guilty. Broad attacks do nobody any good.

[MaggieD]

217. So did lots of folks at my debate party

Yes to better regulations. No to trashing my retirement.

[Bobbie Jo]

214. Looks like you've struck a nerve

You can tell by the number of bizarre copycat threads in response to this one.

For that, here's a kick.

[MaggieD]

215. Yes, that's always a sign

But who cares? It's clear they can't deal with the simple fact that some people have very good reasons not to support Bernie. Instead they lash out with things implying Hillary supporters are not real liberals, or we're stupid, or we have "Stockholm Syndrome."

Absurd. And insulting.

[ljm2002]

219. Another point in Bernie's favor! n/t