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Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:01 PM

Which part of the Clinton legacy would Hillary embrace? DOMA? NAFTA? Welfare "reform"?

I like Bill Clinton; he did many great things. I like Hillary Clinton; she has also accomplished great things. But if the primary is about ideology, the Clintons fall near the mid-point between my views and Jeb Bush's views.

We are entitled to campaign for a more progressive candidate.

Also, we need not have blinders to the fact that Bill Clinton was not a particularly liberal President, and we are right to ask where Hillary Clinton stands on issues where Bill Clinton left a legacy disappointing to progressive and liberal Democrats:

1. the Defense of Marriage Act
2. the North American Free Trade Agreement
3. deregulation of the financial industries
4. a worse welfare system than under Ronald Reagan
5. harsh criminal sentencing without judicial discretion (and the explosion of the private prison industry)
6. expanded use of the death penalty
7. expanded use of drug possession criminalization

If Bill Clinton was disappointing on these issues, why should we expect Hillary Clinton to serve as our standard bearer on issues of key importance to many of us?

32 replies, 1547 views

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Reply Which part of the Clinton legacy would Hillary embrace? DOMA? NAFTA? Welfare "reform"? (Original post)
Attorney in Texas Nov 2015 OP
guillaumeb Nov 2015 #1
upaloopa Nov 2015 #2
Doctor_J Nov 2015 #6
ThePhilosopher04 Nov 2015 #8
passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #27
Lil Missy Nov 2015 #3
Doctor_J Nov 2015 #5
Robbins Nov 2015 #7
Baitball Blogger Nov 2015 #10
Attorney in Texas Nov 2015 #12
frylock Nov 2015 #16
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #23
Bread and Circus Nov 2015 #29
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #14
jhart3333 Nov 2015 #25
votesparks Nov 2015 #32
Blus4u Nov 2015 #4
oasis Nov 2015 #9
AJH032 Nov 2015 #11
Attorney in Texas Nov 2015 #13
saturnsring Nov 2015 #15
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #18
EndElectoral Nov 2015 #17
Attorney in Texas Nov 2015 #30
stupidicus Nov 2015 #19
Juicy_Bellows Nov 2015 #20
reddread Nov 2015 #21
Maedhros Nov 2015 #24
reddread Nov 2015 #28
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #22
Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2015 #26
Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #31

Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:04 PM

1. The answer depends on which HRC we are talking about. The nineties HRC

or the 2015 version.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:09 PM

2. Is Bill Clinton running again? I didn't know that was possible

You can disregard everything Hillary has said so far in this race. That is your right.
But the majority like what she stands for.
You are the minority.
When she is President we will have every right to judge her as we did Bill Clinton.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:22 PM

6. Why can't we find out ahead of time so we know who to vote for?

 

If Hillary's 8 years in the WH were getting her ready for her own presidency, then she owns these things. If they weren't, then don't count them as experience.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:26 PM

8. I think it's reasonable to disregard everything she's said in this race ...

 

because her past is her past and the best window into what she'll do in the future as President. She's the ultimate politician and will say anything to get elected, and will do anything to keep the money flowing into her bank account from Wall Street.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 06:21 PM

27. you are the minority

If this is true, why is it not represented on a forum like DU? Are you sure your polls are actually polling the right people? DU is probably made up of mostly voters.

We have the right to judge her now. It would be silly to buy a product and then get it home and "judge" whether or not it is any good. That's why Consumer Reports is so popular, and consumer reviews on Amazon. You get a feel for the good and bad qualities of a product before you buy it. Same should be true of candidates, but unfortunately, you can't go so much by what they say when campaigning (as has been proven over and over again) unless what they say when campaigning matches their history as a politician or public figure.

And yes, some evolution is good and necessary over time, but too much evolution right before a big race is a huge red flag.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:10 PM

3. Ask Bill - those are part of his legacy

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:20 PM

5. We don't care how Bill feels about them

 

We want to know if his wife will continue/revive then in fact or in spirit.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:23 PM

7. so

has she ever said he was wrong and she didn't support them?

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Response to Robbins (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:49 PM

10. +1

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 04:04 PM

12. You know that Hillary Clinton has a campaign website, right? You know that her website and her stump

Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)

speeches both tout her experience and accomplishments as part of the Clinton administration as a big part of her qualifications to serve as President, right?

Is this a thing she gets to use when it benefits her and yet it's off limits when others raise questions related to her role in the Clinton presidency?

If it is fair to ask Jeb Bush how his administration would differ from his brother's and how he would have approached issues differently from the way his brother approached those issues, how is it not fair to ask Hillary Clinton similar questions about her husband's administration which she proudly served and which is experience she touts as part of her qualifications?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:03 PM

16. Yes, just like her tenure at State..

anything positive was because of Hilllary, while anything negative was at the behest of Obama.

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Response to frylock (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:48 PM

23. I have the impression that Hillary does not take responsibility for her mistakes very well.

I, too, have noticed that.
It's always somebody else's fault.

That's a really bad sign in my view.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 19, 2015, 02:42 AM

29. No she doesn't

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 04:27 PM

14. Maybe some folks believe in the literal creation story, Lil Missy

Ask Bill - those are part of his legacy






Maybe some folks believe in the literal creation story and believe Hillary is just an extension of her husband as Eve was made from Adam's rib.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 06:00 PM

25. I remember back in the nineties we were getting "two for the price of one"

That deal's off now?

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:16 AM

32. It's also her legacy if she lobbied and promoted their passage

NAFTA
"Now that we know from the 11,000 pages of Clinton White House documents released this week that former First Lady was an ardent advocate for NAFTA; now that we know she held at least five meetings to strategize about how to win congressional approval of the deal; now that we know she was in the thick of the manuevering to block the efforts of labor, farm, environmental and human rights groups to get a better agreement. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillarys-nafta-lie/

CRIME BILL
"As First Lady, Clinton lobbied for her husband's crime bill, which (among other things) encouraged states to enact harsher sentencing statutes and expanded the list of crimes subject to the federal death penalty."

"HRC - At the time, there were reasons why the Congress wanted to push through a certain set of penalties and increase prison construction and there was a lot of support for that across a lot of communities. Itís hard to remember now but the crime rate in the early 1990s was very high. But weíve got to take stock now of the consequences, so thatís why I want to have a thorough review of all of the penalties, of all the kinds of sentencing, and more importantly start having more diversion and having more second chance programs."

Despite statements like that on the campaign trail, however, Clinton did not introduce or rally behind any legislation to this effect during her remaining U.S. Senate tenure.

https://reason.com/blog/2014/12/05/hillary-clinton-response-eric-garner#.8927wdl:YPAL

WELFARE REFORM
"Despite the human costs of welfare reform, Bill Clinton is still bragging about knocking people off welfare and Hillary has neither repudiated nor disavowed the 1996 Clinton welfare legislation, which has been a catastrophe for the black community. Hillary Clinton not only supported the 1996 legislation, but as recently as her 2008 presidential campaign, publicly supported it, expressing no regret about how it turned out and telling the New York Times she thought the act was necessary and enormously successful."

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/racial-justice-failures-hillary-clinton-cant-ignore

There's three on the list she gets to own

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:18 PM

4. In spite of what the magpies are saying,

your post raises legitimate questions, counselor,

Good post.
Peace

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:33 PM

9. Madame President's administration will offer new ideas.

Hillary is definitely not for rolling back the clock. That would be cuckoo.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 03:51 PM

11. Why do people always put "reform" in quotes?

I noticed this on DU a long time ago, that when referencing welfare reform, "reform" is always surrounded by quotations, as though the legislation didn't actually change anything (that's what the quotes seem to imply). To reform simply means to change. For better or for worse, agree or disagree, it certainly did change, so why the quotes?

Just wondering. Thanks.

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Response to AJH032 (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 04:14 PM

13. "re∑form rəˈfŰrm/ verb 1. make changes in (something, typically a social, political, or economic

institution or practice) in order to improve it."

If a legislative amendment is entitled as a reform and touted as an improvement when the real goal is not to improve the underlying legislation but to undermine that legislation putatively being reformed, then some would put the word reform in quotes.

No Child Left Behind is a good example of legislative "reform" of the public education system.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 04:43 PM

15. Up to date IPSOS-REUTERS Likely Democratic Primary Voter Poll-Clinton-64%-Sanders 28%

 

Up to date IPSOS-REUTERS Likely Democratic Primary Voter Poll-Clinton-64%-Sanders 28%

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Response to saturnsring (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:23 PM

18. The crazy thing is you would think America was a hopeless place during the Clinton era.

It was a great era,even the L A Riots happened under Bush Pere.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:19 PM

17. She would say she has evolved on those issues

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Response to EndElectoral (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:02 AM

30. But which issues? Will she confess NAFTA was an anti-labor, anti-US-manufacturer error? Will she

work to repeal Bill's damage to the welfare system and the criminal justice system?

Where will she build on the Clinton legacy and where will she repair the Clinton legacy? We have the right to ask these questions and demand answers.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:32 PM

19. lying to high heaven about wmds to preserve the sanctions

 

that's why her vote to approve the AUMF was a tad different from the rest.

BC's wmd lies made Bush's easier to sell. JUst ask any rightwingnut armed with "the list" of wmd comments from his admin.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:36 PM

20. She is her own person of someone elses making.

Who knows what the hell she'll do if elected? She doesn't know herself until she gets the memo or poll results.

Call me whatever ya like, I have core beliefs, they haven't changed since I became an adult. Damn it, I'd like my political leaders to have conviction for once.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:36 PM

21. MFN for China

 

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Response to reddread (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:57 PM

24. The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one...[n/t]

 

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 19, 2015, 01:02 AM

28. or perhaps real deal supporters embrace the sweatshops and labor resources

 

maybe thats not a protest sticker?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 05:45 PM

22. K&R. I'm with you, Attorney in Texas.

Well said.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Nov 18, 2015, 06:02 PM

26. Welfare Reform, because according to her, only "hard working white people" matter.

 

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:12 AM

31. Let's not forget the Telecommunications Act of 1996

 

Very bad medicine it was. Have you looked at the media lately?

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