HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Hating Hillary: The One T...

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 09:49 PM

Hating Hillary: The One Thing Left and Right Men Can Agree On

(*My note: while this article specifies a gender, Hillary hate is by no means exclusive to men)

“It” is Hillary-hate. It is the tendency for people to decide, at regular intervals, that Hillary Clinton is not a mainstream Democrat who’s carved out a groundbreaking career in politics, but a blood-drenched, boner-killing, venom-dripping hellbeast who is out to destroy America.

“They” is more nebulous, and worse: Hillary-hate is often, but not always, the province of men. It is often, but not exclusively, Republican; conservatives launched The Hillary Project to stop her candidacy back in 2013. (“Hillary Clinton—the name alone strikes dread in the heart of freedom loving Americans.”) And it is often, and unacceptably, embraced by otherwise progressive men, who abandon their principles and their common sense in order to trash her, demonize her, and loudly proclaim to anyone who will listen that they Just Don’t Like Her.

You know Hillary-hate. You’ve seen it before: It’s Tucker Carlson proclaiming that “when she comes on television, I involuntarily cross my legs.” It’s Chris Matthews scolding Clinton, when she criticized Bush’s homeland security spending in 2005, by saying that “you look more witchy when you’re doing it like this.” It is sainted progressive icon Jon Stewart getting huge laughs, off a shot of Clinton smiling politely, with the line “that look is where boners go to die.”

And it goes on, and gets worse, until Hillary is not just portrayed as an ugly, mean old lady these dudes don’t want to fuck, but as an actual monster. Hillary-hate is the fact that, while Clinton was grieving the suicide of her friend Vince Foster, Republicans spread rumors that she had seduced and murdered him. Hillary-hate is Maureen Dowd calling Clinton “Godzilla” and “Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.” Hillary-hate is the not-remotely-subtle implication that Clinton abuses her husband, spread by the New York Post; next to a photo of Clinton with her mouth wide open at a Benghazi hearing, they ran the headline “NO WONDER BILL’S AFRAID.” Hillary-hate is the persistent, bizarre need for major media outlets to go along with Dowd’s calling Clinton the “50-Foot Woman” and to make Clinton look scary by portraying her as superhumanly huge: On the cover of TIME as a rampaging, pantsuited giantess the size of a skyscraper (photographed in the act of stepping on a powerless man, of course) or on the cover of the New York Times Magazine as some sort of Lovecraftian elder God the size of a planet.


http://globalcomment.com/hating-hillary-the-one-thing-left-and-right-men-can-agree-on/

155 replies, 62209 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 155 replies Author Time Post
Reply Hating Hillary: The One Thing Left and Right Men Can Agree On (Original post)
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 OP
onehandle Nov 2015 #1
LineLineReply .
BootinUp Nov 2015 #17
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #18
MADem Nov 2015 #106
Phlem Nov 2015 #2
arcane1 Nov 2015 #4
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #9
arcane1 Nov 2015 #13
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #14
arcane1 Nov 2015 #23
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #26
arcane1 Nov 2015 #64
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #72
arcane1 Nov 2015 #80
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #130
Logical Nov 2015 #51
Fuddnik Nov 2015 #109
Buzz cook Nov 2015 #118
mcar Nov 2015 #123
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #144
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #151
Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #24
Doctor_J Nov 2015 #68
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #3
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #5
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #10
JonLeibowitz Nov 2015 #28
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #30
JonLeibowitz Nov 2015 #31
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #37
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #45
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #50
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #54
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #55
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #58
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #60
BainsBane Nov 2015 #41
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #48
BainsBane Nov 2015 #77
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #79
BainsBane Nov 2015 #88
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #115
BainsBane Nov 2015 #136
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #143
phleshdef Nov 2015 #92
BainsBane Nov 2015 #99
phleshdef Nov 2015 #102
BainsBane Nov 2015 #107
MADem Nov 2015 #112
mcar Nov 2015 #74
NRaleighLiberal Nov 2015 #6
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #11
TheProgressive Nov 2015 #7
frazzled Nov 2015 #82
EndElectoral Nov 2015 #150
Wilms Nov 2015 #8
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #12
Wilms Nov 2015 #16
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #19
MaggieD Nov 2015 #15
Phlem Nov 2015 #20
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #22
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #21
reformist2 Nov 2015 #25
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #27
MaggieD Nov 2015 #34
LuvLoogie Nov 2015 #67
kimbutgar Nov 2015 #29
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #33
ibegurpard Nov 2015 #32
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #35
MrMickeysMom Nov 2015 #36
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #38
MrMickeysMom Nov 2015 #40
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #49
MrMickeysMom Nov 2015 #53
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #56
Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #97
kenn3d Nov 2015 #39
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #44
Lilith Rising Nov 2015 #65
jeff47 Nov 2015 #42
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #47
jeff47 Nov 2015 #52
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #62
Lilith Rising Nov 2015 #69
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #71
jeff47 Nov 2015 #76
Lilith Rising Nov 2015 #78
jeff47 Nov 2015 #81
Lilith Rising Nov 2015 #83
jeff47 Nov 2015 #84
Lilith Rising Nov 2015 #87
jeff47 Nov 2015 #89
Lilith Rising Nov 2015 #90
jeff47 Nov 2015 #94
Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #100
Jarqui Nov 2015 #43
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #46
redstateblues Nov 2015 #66
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #70
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #57
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #59
Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #61
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #63
Post removed Nov 2015 #73
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #75
MisterP Nov 2015 #85
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #104
jalan48 Nov 2015 #86
phleshdef Nov 2015 #91
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #110
Post removed Nov 2015 #93
phleshdef Nov 2015 #95
jwirr Nov 2015 #96
fbc Nov 2015 #98
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #108
George II Nov 2015 #101
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #133
BenGrimm Nov 2015 #103
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #105
MannyGoldstein Nov 2015 #111
eridani Nov 2015 #113
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #128
eridani Nov 2015 #149
AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #114
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #129
AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #134
Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #116
riversedge Nov 2015 #120
Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #140
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #125
Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #141
Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #117
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #126
silenttigersong Nov 2015 #119
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #132
William769 Nov 2015 #121
Scuba Nov 2015 #122
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #127
smiley Nov 2015 #124
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #131
Fearless Nov 2015 #135
Lans Nov 2015 #137
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #138
seabeyond Nov 2015 #146
Romulox Nov 2015 #139
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #148
Flying Squirrel Nov 2015 #142
Chan790 Nov 2015 #145
ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #147
JonathanRackham Nov 2015 #152
RichVRichV Nov 2015 #153
Shankapotomus Nov 2015 #154
cherokeeprogressive Nov 2015 #155

Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 09:54 PM

1. Yeah, but all of the Hillary haters at DU are from the Left.

Right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onehandle (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:09 PM

17. .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onehandle (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:10 PM

18. Well, I certainly HOPE so

But. You know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onehandle (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:48 AM

106. I think they PRETEND to be from the left, lots of 'em. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 09:56 PM

2. Or......

Someone might use critical thinking after taking in all the facts, triangulating to weed out waste, and coming to a conclusion based on the facts.

I care not about her gender but what she will unleash on us all.

Third Way No Way!

Jesus Fuck!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Phlem (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:03 PM

4. Valid policy disagreements must be labled as "hate" so as to dismiss them in advance.

 

The only other alternative is to actually discuss the policy differences, and we certainly can't have THAT!

Nope, better to pretend the disagreements are nothing more than thoughtless, irrational expressions of misogynistic "hate" instead. It's the safest, most defensive route to take, so it makes sense to see it at work here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arcane1 (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:05 PM

9. You don't think Hillary has experienced misogyny disguised as "criticism"?

Interesting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:07 PM

13. I said no such thing, and you know it n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arcane1 (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:08 PM

14. I was asking for clarification

I apologize if I used poor phrasing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:12 PM

23. I think she has indeed experienced sexist-based criticism.

 

I also think her supporters are sometimes guilty of hiding behind valid criticism by equating it with sexist criticism. Much like the OP tries to link "left men" and "right men".

This "left man" disagrees with many of her policies, but has also stood up for her against bullshit attacks by republicans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arcane1 (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:17 PM

26. Then you would probably agree with the article

I get criticism--I'm a strong supporter but there are a number of things I have disagreed with her on.

What I notice, more from the right than the left, but from the left as well, is a visceral objection, as well as a need to twist any positives into conspiracy flavored bullshit. When it goes all out, the misogyny pops right up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:58 PM

64. I'm in much more agreement with the content than the headline n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arcane1 (Reply #64)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:09 PM

72. Yeah the headline is misleading when I think about it

You're right

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #72)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:38 PM

80. There is broad-brushing coming from every direction, even the directions we each favor.

 

We all have one hell of an "interesting" year to look forward to!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arcane1 (Reply #80)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:27 AM

130. That's for sure

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:47 PM

51. Many whine about sexism but many Hillary haters love warren! Explain that! Nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #51)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:50 AM

109. Oooops.......

Can cognitive dissonance cause an earthquake?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #51)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:02 AM

118. The hate for Clinton on the left goes way back.

At least as far as the 92 election. If you remember that's a time when the vast majority of people right or left still got the majority of their information from the main stream media and considered them a reliable source.

So for her first few years in the national spot light Hillary Clinton was described by David Brooks and his ilk. I'm of the opinion that many on the left internalized those memes.

Many on the left believed that Bill Clinton was a right wing, small time, corrupt, Southern crook, that cheated away the nomination from "real" liberals such as Paul Tsongas. This even though the policy positions on all the candidates were pretty much the same.

Oh and at that time Bob Kerry of Nebraska was considered a real heartland liberal, so you can see the difference between what we were told and what reality was like.

That what started the left disaffection with Hillary and it was based on inside to beltway snippery.

It then devolved into Clinton rules journalism. Something that has risen from the dead like a zombie lie.
The left at that time didn't have the infrastructure to push back. They might not have even if they could because along came 1994 and the right wing revolution.
Both Clinton's were the designated scape goats for a systtemic failure by the party and liberals.

I think of it as a dysfunctional family in which the abuser picks on only one child; eventually the other family members blame the victim. The family begins to think if only the victim wasn't there the abuse would stop. So if only the Clintons were out of the picture the media would return to being fair to both sides and the right would go back to being fuddy duddy fiscal conservatives and not ideological terrorists.

That exhibited itself in election 2000 where centrist Gore was pitted against centrist Bradley. The MSM let it be known that Bradley was the "real" liberal while Gore was a lying, somewhat crazed, self promoter, etc. and so on. Sadly many on the left bought that as well, even though by then we could prove that the media were whores in real time.

It happened again in 2008 when a little known dino was hailed as the "real" liberal by the media because of a centrist speech he had given at the 2004 convention. Once again if one were to explore the rhetoric and the records of the democratic candidates there wasn't much separating them.

Now contrast that to Warren who started as a little known functionary in an area that wasn't covered much by the media. She was able to garner nation wide support in a democratic/liberal system that didn't exist in the 90s, before she got because of that support she was able to get her seat in the senate. In short she is a winner and everyone lves a winner. But she is a winner in good part because of the reaction to the mal treatment of Hillary Clinton.

So people on the left like Warren because she didn't have to go through the meat grinder and hate Clinton because she did. And that hate often exhibits itself as sexism, because it's easy.

Sorry to tell you this, but to many people who call themselves leftist, if they dislike a person, they think it's OK to use any form of demeaning language they care to.

So read this fom the start. http://dailyhowler.com/archives_98.shtml
Read "Fools for Scandal" Lyons
http://www.amazon.com/Fools-Scandal-Media-Invented-Whitewater/dp/1879957523
And read "The Hunting of the President" Conason Lyons
http://www.amazon.com/Hunting-President-Ten-Year-Campaign-Destroy/dp/0312273193/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1448352132&sr=1-1&keywords=the+hunting+of+the+president

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buzz cook (Reply #118)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 09:37 AM

123. Excellent analysis!

Conason and Lyons have done a masterful job revealing all of this. They should be required reading for every Democrat and anyone on the left.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 05:47 PM

144. I do. But I also see attempts to shut down any criticism of HRC with "misogynist man Hillary-hate!"

I mean, you basically accuse me of doing that in this thread, and I would challenge you to find one single thing I've EVER said about Hillary Clinton which could objectively be categorized as "misogynist".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 11:30 PM

151. I'm a woman, 72 years old, and I think that Hillary is a mediocre politician and a conservative.

I've voted Democratic all my life. Hillary is not progressive enough for me.

Her stances on the minimum wage, on raising the cap on payroll taxes, on foreign policy, on family leave, on free college, on child care, on just about every issue are too far to the right for me.

I'm voting for Bernie or no one for president. I'll vote for every other Democrat on the ticket, not for Hillary.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arcane1 (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:15 PM

24. *Mic drop*

You should add that to the end of your post.

I agree with you, this election is not about gender specific candidates.
The Republicans don't even believe that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Phlem (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:01 PM

68. I dislike conservatives of all genders and parties

 

It makes the fan club feel better to blame dislike for Mrs Clinton on her gender instead of her conservative politics.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:01 PM

3. I also like these paragraphs

None of us wants to hash out the “BernieBros” problem again — in short, they’re real, and they’re not spectacular — but their common line that Hillary Clinton is “Reagan with a vagina,” to quote the nightmarish comment section of this fine Kathleen Geier piece, or the second coming of Margaret Thatcher, to quote roughly every lazy comparison-maker on the Internet (they’re both women, so they must be identical, I guess?) is in fact wrong.

Hillary Clinton has a liberal record. While in the Senate with her purported opposite Bernie Sanders, they voted the same way 93% of the time. She was rated as more liberal than 85% of her fellow Senators; in fact, despite the narrative in ’08 that Obama was the only liberal choice (I backed him that year, and I’m glad I did) she is slightly to the left of Obama, who stands at 82%. This isn’t to say that I have never disagreed with her, or that I won’t disagree with her in the future, or that Sanders isn’t to her left on economics. It is simply to say that the “Clinton = secret conservative” narrative is not grounded in fact, including the glaringly obvious fact that actual conservatives hate her. Maybe Clinton just pissed in their cornflakes one fine morning, but I’m betting it’s because she’s not conservative.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:04 PM

5. Maybe that line would sell better before the boilerplate Neocon speech she gave a few days ago.

Everything from more war to the Patriot Act Part II.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:06 PM

10. You just hush

Silly

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:23 PM

28. Ah, an insightful, measured, policy-focused response. We thank you. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:24 PM

30. Who is this "we" of whom you speak?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:25 PM

31. The internet masses.

I mean, misogynists. Oops!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:27 PM

37. Tch.

Okey dokey.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:41 PM

45. Nah, that's not silly.

This is silly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #45)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:46 PM

50. No you jumping on a thread addressing sexism is silly.

True to form though

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #50)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:49 PM

54. It's a thread about Hillary Clinton, in GD-P.

And it's making assertions about gendered "hillary hate". I neither hate Hillary, nor could I give a flying fuck about her gender, but the meme obviously being pushed that the only reason anyone (the left and the right, exactly the same, derp) isn't supporting her is "sexism" ........is flat-out bullshit.

You made an assertion about "her liberal record", which was the specific thing I was responding to, Chief.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #54)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:52 PM

55. Now now

It's okay..

You should actually read the article

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #58)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:55 PM

60. I did

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:37 PM

41. Why don't you tell us what was so neocon about it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #41)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:44 PM

48. Show me where I "lied about my age", first.


I actually thought her speech contained some cogent foreign policy analysis, but calling for additional open-ended war and another AUMF is undoubtedly neocon.

Using "terra terra terra" as an excuse to try to get top items from the Xmas list of law enforcement, like a "backdoor" into everyone's cell phone? Pah. That's straight from the Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft playbook.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #48)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:19 PM

77. Suggesting the President go to congress for authorization is neoconservative?

What do you think neocon means? Was Napoleon a neocon? LBJ, Wilson, FDR? How about Kissinger or the Cold War presidents?

I remember some time ago discussing something or another with you, and the timing of college came up. It was clear you started college before me, but not by a whole lot. And given that I started college at 16, that means you have to be older than you indicated in your own poll. Also, a time after that you made some sort of fudge on your age in a poll, I confronted you on it, and you responded sheepishly like you knew you had been caught.

Also, the Grateful Dead. If that doesn't date you, nothing does.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #77)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:33 PM

79. eh, believe what you want. You think "I hit the wrong button" was me being "sheepish"

Not only do you not know how old I am, you vastly misjudge the things I actually give a shit about.



I started going to shows in the mid-80s. I happen to think the 89-91 era is one of their best.



Look closely, you can see me in the crowd. All 50 thousand of me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #79)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:13 AM

88. Whatever. Answer the question about neoconservatives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #88)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:26 AM

115. I did.

"neocon" is a subjective label, just as much as "hawkish" is. Downthread you acknowledge she's hawkish, so apparently you're bent out of shape about "neocon".

She admittedly gave a very pro-war speech the other day, I don't even have a huge problem with that, on all points; and like I said, she made some pretty cogent foreign policy observations. However, I do object to low-brow pandering to the lowest common denominator around "terror" and 9-11, which she has done in overdrive since the Paris attacks; trying to argue that having ties to Wall St. was "because New York was attacked" was just painfully laughable, and then turning around to immediately use Paris as an excuse to stump for more "extraordinary tools" like demanding silicon valley give out all-purpose backdoors to their encryption-

we've been sold that bill of goods before, remember?

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/10/patriot-act-warrants-used-more-drugs-terrorism

you can call it what the fuck you want, it reminds me of the Previous administration. It's the classic Dubya M.O.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #115)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:03 PM

136. The clear intent is to present her as like the Bush administration

and hawk and neocon are not synonyms, not unless the neocons existed since time immemorial, Alexander the Great to Napoleon, Wilson and FDR, which would render the term meaningless.

It's sad you think ISIS and Saddam are the same. No wonder you are so cavalier in your use of foreign policy terms.

Better put Bernie in your elastic definition of neocon camp too, since he supports the same coalition-based military involvement that Clinton does. He made that clear at the last debate. There wasn't a dove on that stage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #136)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 04:58 PM

143. and I explained why, didn't I?

Like I said, the ridiculous answer about Wall St. ("because New York was attacked" and the shameless pandering on encryption were the two egregious examples I pointed out.

All she needed was Tommy Thompson and a color coded terror chart.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #41)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:26 AM

92. Hillary is fairly hawkish. Those who are supporting her in the primary should just admit it.

She certainly doesn't try to hide it or anything. Its part of what she believes. Either you are cool with that or you aren't. I prefer someone less hawkish but I'll still pull the lever for her next November, without a drop of shame, if thats what it comes down to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to phleshdef (Reply #92)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:35 AM

99. Yeah, I don't dispute that

But all hawks aren't neocons.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #99)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:39 AM

102. Well "neocon" use to mean the PNAC crew... but now its become kind of a synonym for hawks.

Like a lot of words, its transcended its original meaning. Most people around here really mean "hawk" when they say neocon. I do agree that lumping her in with the likes of Dick Cheney is way off the mark.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to phleshdef (Reply #102)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:49 AM

107. The intent is to lump her in with PNAC

and I agree it is used as a synonym for hawk but shouldn't be. There are distinct approaches to US foreign policy and the neoconservatives stand in start contrast to the real politik approach. I believe Clinton is closer to the latter. She doesn't imagine she can use the military to remake the world in the image of the US. She talks about specific threats and how to confront them with a combination of diplomatic, military, and soft power.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #99)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:55 AM

112. A lot of people here think "progressive" is a synonym for liberal, and they think

Bernie is a liberal, when he has said otherwise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:10 PM

74. I've been seeing Thatcher mentioned on this board

rather frequently of late. Wonder why....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:04 PM

6. Wow. So "has a different preference" = hate..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:06 PM

11. I also like this paragraph

I do not object to Hillary-hate because I always agree with Clinton, or because I am committed to unthinking defense of her every word and move. I even acknowledge that there are valid reasons to dislike her: I’m sympathetic to the people of color who’ve pointed out that she can be very bad on race, and that she has a lot of work to do to convince them that she will be responsive to their needs. That’s not Hillary-hate, that’s rational criticism, and it ought to be heard and respected, particularly by Hillary Clinton. What I oppose is Hillary-hate. I oppose misogyny. And I do it because I know, as sure as I know anything, that what men say about Hillary is what they’ll say about other women, what they’ll say about me, if we get too strong for them to control or ignore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:05 PM

7. I would vote for Elizabeth Warren in a heartbeat...

 

A Sanders vs Warren primary would be difficult. In this
scenario, I would vote for Sanders and thereby paving the way
for Senator Warren!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TheProgressive (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:48 PM

82. Please don't say that in this context.

It's pretty much like saying, "But I have a black friend."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to frazzled (Reply #82)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 11:19 PM

150. It's nothing like that.

The onus of the article implies men who oppose Hillary have a gender bias. The previous poster was simply saying he'd vote for Elizabeth Warren.

Why? His point was to show that men are not opposing Hillary because they have a gender bias. They simply may not like her policies.

For many the IWR is a big decision maker on many progressive voters plate. Some, like myself, could never vote for Kerry or Biden for precisely this reason. Why would I vote for Hilary if that was the primary reason I couldn't support either of the other gentlemen?

Elizabeth Warren will and has taken a much stronger prosecutorial approach to Wall Street. She advocates an approach that I agree with regarding the financial sector. I sincerely beleive if she was running she would not be taking gobs of campaign money from the big investment banks.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:05 PM

8. It's not exactly like that.

 

I, for instance, had no problem with her being "a blood-drenched, boner-killing, venom-dripping hellbeast who is out to destroy America." But when I read about her eating kittens I kind of lost it.

Just wanted to be sure you know why I won't vote for her. It's nuanced, you see.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wilms (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:07 PM

12. Now that's quite clever.

Impressive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:09 PM

16. Plus, everyone likes kittens. :D

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wilms (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:10 PM

19. True!

So pretty!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:09 PM

15. Ain't that the truth

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MaggieD (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:11 PM

20. OK then, Twilight zone time and I'm out!

This Op was pathetic to begin with and now it's got a fan.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Phlem (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:12 PM

22. You are hurting my feelings

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MaggieD (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:12 PM

21. It's actually a pretty awesome article

I noticed the hair on fire jumping up and down about it in the comments section, but it's quite true.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:16 PM

25. " a rampaging, pantsuited giantess the size of a skyscraper"...LOL! ...Hey, politics, ain't beanbag.

We've been making fun of politicians since before the country began. It's not going to stop despite somebody crying sexism. (It's not by the way - it's just good old fashioned teasing, which always magnifies & distorts someone's flaws.) If Hillary and her supporters can't take the heat, you're always free to get out of the kitchen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reformist2 (Reply #25)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:19 PM

27. The topic is misogyny

Not how well one can call names

And thank you for telling me what sexism is and isn't. Sanders supporter I take it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:26 PM

34. +1

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reformist2 (Reply #25)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:01 PM

67. Pffft. Hillary has been front and center her whole life.

I suppose phoning it in to the choir once a week might burn a calorie or two.

She has just worked harder, longer, better... Her. Whole. Life.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:23 PM

29. I disagree. I favor Bernie but would vote for Hillary in a heartbeat.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kimbutgar (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:26 PM

33. Then you don't have Hillary hate

I have great friends who love, I mean Love Bernie--and don't "hate" Hillary

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:25 PM

32. Except no one here is saying stupid shit like that

Hillary has created her own problems with her own record. She can't hide from it or bury it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ibegurpard (Reply #32)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:26 PM

35. Nobody?

Good to know

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:27 PM

36. I think you need to discern "won't vote for 3rd way" from "hate her"...

I've been saying over and over that it's not hate. It's "I will NOT vote for her". I've even qualified why for years here. That opinion should not be confused with hating her.

If I call her a war monger or dishonest, I'm pretty sure I don't like her for a candidate. That is not hate.

I take offense to your assumption that one is equal to the other. I can't account for assholes like Tucker Carlson. I CAN account for people who say her policies and what she's done to spin what she's previously said to become more desirable after a poll shows it is one way or another as a reason NOT to support her.

I do not trust her. I do not trust people campaigning ideas that include the use double talk, or vague reasoning to make what they say sound exactly like their opponents.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #36)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:29 PM

38. Then you don't have Hillary hate

Legitimately Criticizing her is not the same as rabid CT poo flinging that we see.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #38)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:34 PM

40. Thanks for your confirmation...

We don't need external validation, we Democrats, but it's nice of your to see that.

Poo flinging aside, I'm not going to even bother to take a balance and weigh said poo on DU. The people on this board who specialize in poo flinging have me distrusting whether they're EVEN DEMOCRATS.

Guess I'll never know, will I?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:45 PM

49. Well I'll give you a hint

I'm voting for the democratic nominee no matter what

That's a good hint

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #49)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:48 PM

53. Indeed, it is!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #53)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:52 PM

56. You betcha!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:33 AM

97. I'm with this person.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:33 PM

39. I am a man

I am a man who could never vote for Sec.Clinton, for so many indisputable reasons, not one of which has anything to do with gender. I am a man who would welcome and vote for any righteous woman candidate of intelligence, good will, and honor, who could be a good president even if I didn't agree with her every policy position. And I both regret and apologize for any men who've made you and so many other women (as well as men) feel you must vote for Hillary Clinton despite everything she represents, because she is female.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kenn3d (Reply #39)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:40 PM

44. Oh- OH! There is absolutely NO need to apologize

Because not ONLY is she a women, she is the best candidate by far, so very far.

Please don't you worry bout little ol' me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kenn3d (Reply #39)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:58 PM

65. Lol

feel you must vote for Hillary Clinton despite everything she represents, because she is female.

Stupid wimminz!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:39 PM

42. Yeah, there hadn't been enough bullshit smeared on DU recently. (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jeff47 (Reply #42)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:43 PM

47. No?

I thought there had been plenty

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #47)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:47 PM

52. You have been busy. (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jeff47 (Reply #52)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:57 PM

62. Not really

Found the article and liked it. Thought I see what kind of reception it got. So far, better than I thought, but not by much

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jeff47 (Reply #42)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:02 PM

69. Except it's NOT "bullshit".

Just because 'you' aren't invoking the cankles and pant suits doesn't mean 'you' aren't coming from a sexist place.

Women (hey! just like AA folks!) can tell the difference you know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lilith Rising (Reply #69)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:08 PM

71. That sexism is denied amazes me

Sure people have legitimate concerns, and have every right to them but I get this feeling that some think certain attacks aren't sexist because she's "Hillary Clinton"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lilith Rising (Reply #69)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:16 PM

76. Yes, it's utterly impossible for my feeble male brain to understand my own thought processes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jeff47 (Reply #76)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:29 PM

78. Yep, that's exactly what I said!

I wouldn't be so bold as to qualitate your higher brain functions, but it seems to me that (based on your great number of posts in this forum) you have no such compunction.

Many, many women know sexism when they see it. And that has nothing to do with YOUR thought processes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lilith Rising (Reply #78)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:41 PM

81. Yeah, thoughts like sexism have nothing to do with thoughts.

Here's a thought:

Perhaps slaughtering a million Iraqis isn't made up for by saying "oops". Even when I'm talking about John Kerry.

Perhaps changing one's policies not based on what is right, but on what is currently politically convenient does not make for a good president. Even when I'm talking about Bill Clinton.

Perhaps proposals like a tax credit for people making less than $22k/year demonstrates just how out-of-touch someone is economically. Even when I'm talking about Mitt Romney.

Perhaps invoking your religion to justify denying civil rights to minorities is not acceptable. Even when you're Mike Huckabee.

Perhaps pushing for even more military intervention in Libya, Syria and the rest of the Middle East is a terrible idea. Even when you're John McCain.

Perhaps pushing for "the gold standard" in trade agreements doesn't make the TPP good. Even when you're Barack Obama.

Nah, those thoughts are all clearly rooted in sexism. So deeply rooted that I even have the same exact thoughts when the politicians are men!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jeff47 (Reply #81)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:49 PM

83. Tell me jeff -

where did I say that ANY/ALL criticism of Hillary is rooted in sexism? Now show me where I disagreed with your characterization of the OP as "bullshit".

Or will I just be treated to more misdirection?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lilith Rising (Reply #83)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:59 PM

84. Reply 69 and 78

Just because 'you' aren't invoking the cankles and pant suits doesn't mean 'you' aren't coming from a sexist place.


Many, many women know sexism when they see it. And that has nothing to do with YOUR thought processes.


According to these statements, it would appear that I must be a sexist for my criticism. Even when I don't invoke "pantsuits". And it's such deeply-rooted sexism that I can't possibly see it, but women can!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jeff47 (Reply #84)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:06 AM

87. See? Misdirection.

I think it's pretty much accepted that putting the 'half-quote' around the word YOU means that I'm not talking about YOU.

I never said nor implied that YOU are sexist because you have criticisms of HC. I disagreed with you on the basis of your characterization of the OP and that is all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lilith Rising (Reply #87)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:15 AM

89. Quoting your own words is misdirection.

I think it's pretty much accepted that putting the 'half-quote' around the word YOU means that I'm not talking about YOU.

When a sexist asshole says something insulting about women, and then says "I'm not talking about YOU", does that make the insult go away?

When you "punch up", you should not be surprised when some people you did not intend to hit say "ow". That doesn't mean you can't "punch up", just stop pretending you can't cause collateral damage.

I disagreed with you on the basis of your characterization of the OP and that is all.

You mean the one that tries to claim that "left men" are sexist for the criticisms I mentioned above?

Or the OP's comment before the quote that those criticisms are just hatred?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jeff47 (Reply #89)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:20 AM

90. Lol. Okay. Whatever you say.

You (and just so there's no confusion and another 15 derails, when I say "you" here, I'm talking about you) are clearly the superior intellect and you've beaten me soundly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lilith Rising (Reply #90)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:29 AM

94. Hey look! It's another post where you claim to do my thinking for me!

Thanks!

Btw, I'm not out to "beat you soundly". I'm trying to get across that "I meant those other people who I can't identify" is pushing a stereotype. Sure, it's a stereotype against people with privilege, but privilege doesn't make it not a stereotype.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lilith Rising (Reply #90)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:36 AM

100. Agreed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:40 PM

43. Hate: such a strong word and I don't feel that

I really like Bernie. I don't hate Hillary. If Hillary beats Bernie, I'll support her - in a heartbeat. I'd never support the Republicans of this century. Republicans can get me pretty close to feeling hatred - upset me with their ignorance and bigotry but not Hillary.

Exercising my right to freedom of expression to criticize her, that's not hate yet folks around here have accused as if it is. That's criticism of her or her positions. It our democratic duty to speak out if we see something that we think is wrong. When she lies or behaved deceptively or flip-flops, for example, which she has done many, many times, I'm going to call her on it. Again, that's not hate though I do not like her doing it.

I do not think you have to hate one candidate in order to like another. I even like O'Malley. I just like Bernie more.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jarqui (Reply #43)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:42 PM

46. Then you don't have Hillary hate

I disagree with your "flip-flop analysis, but you gave a respectful and thoughtful answer and one that is your opinion. Nothing wrong with it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #46)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:00 PM

66. It will be good to see those who refuse to vote Democratic

gone after Hillary wins the nomination. There are a lot of anti Obama former Naderites in DU pretending to be Democrats. Hopefully at some point they will realize how devastating another Republican president would be. The Nader voters will never accept the part they played in helping elect Bush and Cheney.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redstateblues (Reply #66)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:05 PM

70. Yeah

One thing I am very serious about is getting a Democrat in the White House. Hilliary Is my strong preference, but I'm voting Democrat period. Anything less would be unthinkable to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:53 PM

57. Also from the article:

And not only is getting mad at Sanders wrong, it’s beside the point.



I'm guessing that's a piece of advice you don't much care for.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #57)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:55 PM

59. I can honestly say I no longer get mad at Sanders.

I care about all such advice, as "mad" is such a negative emotion


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #59)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:56 PM

61. good for you.

It's far more healthy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #61)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 10:57 PM

63. Ain't THAT the truth

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #73)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 11:11 PM

75. Have you, gulp, actually SEEN such a creature?

Outside of alternative anime that is...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:01 AM

85. no! it's the devil's joystick! blocking us from applauding things like the TPP or preparing to send

Last edited Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Lanny Davis to back Facusse's throat-cutting putsch! only the wombyn can appreciate the wisdom of hiring proto-IS because Qaddafi's ouster would be over by Christmas! like Syria!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MisterP (Reply #85)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:41 AM

104. Oh dear

That's a bit mixed up

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:01 AM

86. Yep-it has absolutely nothing to do with her Wall Street Love.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:23 AM

91. I am man. I am on the left. I highly respect Hillary Clinton... still voting for Bernie, sorry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to phleshdef (Reply #91)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:51 AM

110. Good for you!

That is not Hillary hate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #93)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:29 AM

95. LOL, what? Bernie does absolutely nothing for my "willy".

For one, I'm straight. For two, if I wasn't, O'Malley would be the only candidate that would do anything for my "willy" in terms of attractiveness. For three, I think Hillary is a nice looking lady and aging quite gracefully.

Thats a ridiculously sexist statement on your behalf.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #93)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:33 AM

96. Hmmm. If she gets into the WH won't Bill Clinton be there

with her? What will he be thinking?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:34 AM

98. Wow, that doesn't sounds like a very strong candidate for a general election.

 

I dislike Hillary Clinton's center-right stance on economic and defense issues, but I had no idea there was this much hate out there.

That's very worrying for her viability in a general election.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fbc (Reply #98)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:50 AM

108. If Democrats don't vote for her

You are exactly right. She can carry enough votes to win the GE, and her polling with Dems is very encouraging however. The undecideds will swing her way in the face of what the Republicans have to offer. Hillary is running very focused on criticizing republican policies--, if she wins the GE, which is likely at this point, she'll shine.

She's also campaigning everywhere, reaching out to diverse communities, forming alliances--this will pay off enourmously in the GE.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:36 AM

101. Not to mention so-called "left" women too!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #101)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:30 AM

133. Yeah I added that caveat

The article stresses sexism, but Hillary hate is practically a syndrome

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:39 AM

103. Widespread hatred of Hillary will lead to a Rubio victory.

Clinton is virtually guaranteed to be the Democratic nominee. She won't succeed with lukewarm support.

I don't say this to persuade anyone to support or oppose her. This is just what I'm expecting to happen: Lukewarm support for Clinton on the left and vehement disapprobation of her on the right will lead to a Republican victory in the presidential race less than a year from now. Marco Rubio is the most likely Republican nominee.

Rubio's Latino background will help endear him to parts of the U.S. Latino population. This will give the Republican party a much-needed boost in support from Latinos.

I hope I'm wrong about all that, but that's how it looks to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BenGrimm (Reply #103)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:43 AM

105. I'm pretty sure you're wrong

The right isn't going to like Democrat--but why do you think Rubio? Curious..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:51 AM

111. Well duh! If a man doesn't like Hillary,

 

it can only be misogyny.

Could it be more obvious?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:16 AM

113. What about women who hate endless war and unaccountable banksters?

Carly Fiorina and Maggie Thatcher are both women.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eridani (Reply #113)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:26 AM

128. Yes they certainly are and were

So you think Hillary is equivalent to those two? I've been seeing the Thatcher comparison tossed around, and I respectfully suggest that it is a disingenuous comparison made by a possible complete breakdown of understanding historical facts, but, er, Carly Fiona? Why not Sarah Palin while you're at it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #128)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:42 PM

149. Only if your main qualification for POTUS is that she be a woman n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:22 AM

114. Disagree with her = hate

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #114)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:26 AM

129. No

Disagreeing is not hate. Hate is hate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #129)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 11:43 AM

134. Of course hate is hate, but...

 

If you disagree with any of her policy positions, one is accused of hating her. It's standard Hill supporter schtick, in lieu of policy discussion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:30 AM

116. Oh look: it's yet another instance of the gender card being played.

 

"If you don't support Clinton, you (a man) are sexist and secretly pro-Republican too, probably."

Can we talk about the issues now? Or would team Clinton prefer the conversation to be: all ovaries all the time?

Give me a break.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #116)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 04:35 AM

120. I have read many of these vile comments on DU over last few months.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riversedge (Reply #120)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:16 PM

140. Case in point: the above.

 

"I have read many of these vile comments on DU over last few months."

First any criticism of Clinton was perceived as illegitimate and sexist attacks. Now even critiqueing her supporters desperate use of the gender card is "vile commentary".

If she is that fragile and vulnerable in the perception of her ardent supporters, and she cannot respond to criticism without invoking her gender and / or 9-11, maybe she is just not cut out to be a good nominee?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Betty Karlson (Reply #116)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:18 AM

125. Reading the article before commenting is a GOOD thing!

Are you one of the ones who feel Hillary has no sexism directed to her? Or perhaps, that sexism itself doesn't exist?

And I hearby give you a break. Let me know if you need another one

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #125)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:19 PM

141. Thanks for the break. No and no.

 

Clinton has had some sexism directed at her - but that doesn't mean all criticism of her and her positions is sexist.

Sexism exists. So does legitimate criticism. And invoking gender AND 9-11 to avoid a topical discussion on campaign donations and financing reform: hardly qualifies anyone, male or female, as a leader.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:48 AM

117. I'm a man and a leftist. I don't hate Hillary I just think she's unfit to hold public office.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #117)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:19 AM

126. Hmm

That's a harder one to parse. She's certainly "fit" to hold office

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:20 AM

119. It maybe more effective

To name names .I am thinking more specifically of Hillary's male supporters.The prominent names that are male.We all know there are crude people in the world.For you to speak of this reminds me of class order,so be brave start calling out your own.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to silenttigersong (Reply #119)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:28 AM

132. Wait, Wut?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 05:25 AM

121. Kick & highly recommended!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 08:06 AM

122. So both the left and the right hate her, but some still insist that she's electable. Weird.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #122)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:20 AM

127. Oh dear

I think you are the third person to draw that conclusion from the article.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:00 AM

124. I won't be voting for hrs in the primaries...

Because I don't like her politics. I could care less that she is female.
😊

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to smiley (Reply #124)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:27 AM

131. Okey dokey

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:00 PM

135. Complete bull. Sexist labels don't stick. Have fun trying.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:11 PM

137. Don't worry if Bernie doesn't win the primary I would be voting for the first Female President

Jill Stein

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:17 PM

138. The sexist rhetoric is blatant and they are becoming more an more comfortable....

 

with it as the campaign moves forward.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NCTraveler (Reply #138)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 06:00 PM

146. Yes, it is all fun and play with the sexist comments and slurs and insults, until someone pokes

 

an eye out.

Then it is not so much fun.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:37 PM

139. You've been trying to shoe-horn this one in for some time, haven't you?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Romulox (Reply #139)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 08:45 PM

148. And you are?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 04:25 PM

142. I agree that misogyny and sexism are alive and well

 

And that Hillary Hate is a thing.

It doesn't mean I should turn around and support her, ignoring all the things that I dislike about her policy positions and the fact that many of them change with the political wind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 05:52 PM

145. If it makes any difference...

 

I'd hate Hillary every bit as much if she was male, trans or even genderqueer like me. Her sex/gender makes no difference. I don't think it does for most of her haters on the left. (I can't say the same for her RW critics.)

In some sense, I think that's progress.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chan790 (Reply #145)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 08:44 PM

147. Now that I believe

I've noticed your hate. You also, by your own admission hate all of her supporters. Which is cool by me, because we are all invisible internet people as far as interactions go for the most part.

I never get that emotionally involved myself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 11:35 PM

152. She's not my first choice of candidates.

Hate or gender have nothing to do with it. A defense or support based heavily on emotion also discounts my choice of candidates.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:02 AM

153. I think Hillary supporters have a bit of an ego-complex when it comes to Hillary.

I don't really care one way or the other towards her specifically (I'm sure as a person she's perfectly nice). I just don't like centrists who support the corporate power grab of our country. That happens to include Hillary. I dislike the bulk of people in politics for the exact same reason I dislike her. Hillary gets the focus at the moment because she's the one directly in our way of rectifying the situation. If it were another centrists we'd be acting the same way towards them. Gender plays no role in this whatsoever.


What's funny is I take the exact same view of Bernie. There's nothing special about him as a person that makes me vote for him. I support him because he pushes an agenda I firmly believe in to better this country for everyone, and he has the conviction to fight for that agenda regardless of the odds. If another candidate was pushing that same agenda (such as Elizabeth Warren for example) I'd be supporting them equally as well as I do Bernie.


It isn't about hero worship. It isn't about cult of personality. It's about doing what I believe is right for the people living in this country, all the people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:49 AM

155. I don't hate Hillary Clinton. I don't fucking KNOW her. I just don't want her to be my President.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread