Why This Socialist Feminist Is for Hillary

[JaneyVee]

"It is not clear to me that a gridlocked leftist vision would be better for women than actually having a woman in the Oval Office."

-looong snip-

Here’s why: I want to have a woman president. And, no, not any woman president. Hillary is not, as her detractors would have it, Margaret Thatcher or, God forbid, Sarah Palin. She is, like most in the Democratic Party, a centrist. In her political orientation, deep intelligence, and policy wonkishness, she is not at all unlike Obama. But I support her less for her particular political positions (some of which I agree with, some of which I do not, all of which are far superior to the racist/sexist/xenophobic sideshow that is the Republican field) than for the iconic value-added of electing the first woman president of the United States.

Shattering glass ceilings can have broad and rippling consequences. The election of Obama did not usher in an era of “post-racial” accord. However, it brought to the surface the enduring power of racial animus and the equally enduring struggles against it. The Black Lives Matter movement, for example, may have come into being without his presidency, but surely the very fact of this man, with this history, with this body, with this skin in the (very, very) White House opens up space for discussions, debates, movements that are critically important. Obama took it upon himself to explicitly defend the work of Black Lives Matter and school the nation on police violence during an October White House forum on criminal justice where he insisted that “it’s real and there’s a history behind it and we have to take it seriously.” His earlier comments, after the murder of Trayvon Martin, that “this could have been me 35 years ago,” may not have sparked the growing movement against racist police violence, but it surely did give it legitimacy and official voice.

link: http://www.thenation.com/article/why-this-socialist-feminist-is-for-hillary/

Author brings up some great points. For example, if you believe that the election of Barack Obama, besides being an excellent president, also served as a societal good in that it inspired the youth, particularly black and minority youth, then so would the inspiration for young girls and women.

[ibegurpard]

1. ah so it's not all about "vote for her because she's a woman"

Except when it is...

[JaneyVee]

8. And there are those who won't vote for her simply because she's a woman.

But you would rather not direct your outrage in that direction.

[JudyM]

21. I'd guess that those people would not be voting for any democrat, anyway. Nt

[cali]

67. And there are those of us who won't vote for her because she's deeply dishonest, ethically challenge

And has a history of making sucky decisions for obviously political reasons.

[cosmicone]

2. Socialists under the bus now?

wait ... strike that ...

[Stargazer99]

3. I am a low income woman and I will vote for Bernie

I'd love to see a woman president, but I don't think she is in touch with the lower-classes just like the majority of this nation's reps

[JaneyVee]

9. Um, her personal life is...

Practically dedicated to fighting global poverty and AIDS.

[bahrbearian]

20. And her Personal Wealth and Power

[JaneyVee]

30. You're angry that she is successful?

How...not feminist.

[Karma13612]

39. Why can't she concentrate on the US?

I am voting for Bernie.

He puts our poverty and economic health and other issues we voters right here in the United States are facing.

Glad that Hillary is such a global influence, but it seems she could spend a whole lot more effort here on home turf. But, maybe she doesn't find it as exciting as jetting the world over.

Sorry, I like Bernie's dedication to America.

For Foreign Policy he will be fine, he will have a great cabinet and lots of advisors.
And as I recall, he is darn good on common sense about foreign affairs as well: Voted against the Iraq war.

#Bernie16

[Cha]

52. I am a low income woman who is voting for Hillary. I think she has the power to get it done and not

because she's a woman.

I vote for the person not their gender or the race.

[Armstead]

4. She contradicts herself

SDhe says she's not suppoerting her because she is a woman but.....

"But I support her less for her particular political positions (some of which I agree with, many of which I do not, all of which are far superior to the racist/sexist/xenophobic sideshow that is the Republican field) than for the iconic value-added of electing the first woman president of the United States.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. I'm a socialist and I find Hillary unfit for office. So does my wife who's also a socialist.

Neither of us vote by gender but we may be voting for a woman, another woman, if Hillary gets the nod.

[JaneyVee]

6. Well I'm a liberal who believes Hillary is supremely qualified.

And the ripple effects of a woman prez would be a societal good/great.

[JudyM]

24. She is supremely qualified. But also in the mold of the pay to play model of governing. Nt

[Hiraeth]

7. And this is why ... Carly Fiorina.

[Jokerman]

10. I want to have a woman president too.

But that doesn't mean that I'm going to support someone who doesn't represent me or my values just to see it happen.

[JaneyVee]

11. Seems dubious.

[Jokerman]

12. How exactly is following my conscience "dubious"?

[JaneyVee]

13. Chances are you will have the opportunity to vote for one.

[Jokerman]

16. I had the opportunity to vote for her in the 2008 primary.

I didn't vote for her then and I won't vote for her again in the 2016 primary.

[JaneyVee]

17. I'm talking about the general election.

[Jokerman]

19. Hillary Clinton has a ZERO chance of winning my state's electors.

Bernie probably won't win them either but at least I would feel good about my vote.

[JaneyVee]

31. Optimism > cynicism.

[Jokerman]

44. Seems dubious.

Hillary may win the nomination and considering the republican field she would most likely win the general election.

I feel safe in predicting that she will NOT win the general election in Indiana.

[JaneyVee]

45. Never say die.

[thesquanderer]

56. Clinton is about as likely to carry Indiana in the general...

...as Bernie is to win the South Carolina primary.

Okay, never say die... but I certainly wouldn't put any money on it...

[JaneyVee]

57. Don't put money on it, just vote. And bring 10 others.

[thesquanderer]

60. Since I don't live in either Indiana or South Carolina...

...I'm afraid my vote isn't going to be able to influence either one of those outcomes!

[Jokerman]

63. That's exactly what I plan to do, for Bernie.

Bernie has the potential to inspire democrats, bring people back to the polls and win Indiana the way Obama did in 2008.

The only people Hillary will inspire is the opposition.

I'll vote for her if I have to but I refuse to shill for any candidate who has no character or credibility.

[JaneyVee]

66. That's the spirit!

[HassleCat]

14. As you point out

The election of Barack Obama did little to promote that "conversation about race" we keep meaning to have in the US. Having a woman as president will have a small impact on feminist issues. It's a good thing, but not as good as the opportunity to vote for a democratic socialist, progressive candidate. Yes, that would be Bernie.

[JaneyVee]

15. LOL. America isn't having that conversation?

Where you been?

[HassleCat]

18. Listening to BLM

They don't think things are going very well. They make the very specific point that having a black president has not accomplished much, or at least not as much as we were hoping for.

[Nitram]

25. Having an African-American president was never going to be a silver bullet for race relations.

No president should be seen to favor any single group over another. But Obama was there in 2009 when he declared a Massachusetts police officer had "acted stupidly" in arresting Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr, attempted to limit jail sentences for people who commit non-violent drug crimes, strongly condemned voter ID provisions decried by civil rights leaders and created My Brother's Keeper, a set of initiatives designed to benefit black and Latino young men, praised NBA player Lebron James and other athletes who have worn shirts that say "I can't breathe," and these words when Trayvon Martin was murdered: "You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago. And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there’s a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it’s important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn’t go away."

[Nitram]

22. I totally disagree, Cat.

The conversation has not only started, it has been robust, contentious, controversial and healthy. Obama has been careful not to inject himself too far into the middle of the conversation, but he has made timely, thoughtful and helpful statements to keep the conversation going in the right direction.

[jkbRN]

23. Any article that's starts with this:

Here’s why: I want to have a woman president. And, no, not any woman president. Hillary is not, as her detractors would have it, Margaret Thatcher or, God forbid, Sarah Palin. She is, like most in the Democratic Party, a centrist.

Is a complete fail.

[upaloopa]

26. Well I think that goes with the thinking on your side

Anything that you can't understand is a fail.

You all said that to AA's now you say it to women. Bernie's economic justice works for you but let anyone else talk about what they want and it is a fail.
Betnie is out with AA's and women and has no foreign policy and you call someone else a fail!

[bahrbearian]

27. Hillary's foreign policy, Bomb ,bomb coup is a fail.

Now Kerry is having to clean her mess.

[upaloopa]

28. I'll be glad when she wins the primary

[The Dark Magician]

46. So Kerry can continue to clean up her messes?

I hope he is getting plenty of hazard pay and vacation time. I know hes rich and all, but his job is tough.

[Armstead]

58. He's not "out" with women or AA's

Total mischaracterization.

Bernie is a newcomer competing with a politician who has been cultivating political support with AA's for decades. So naturally, he is not going to have the "built in" backing. But is has been winning over people within that demographic as they have gotten top know him and his values.

As for being "out" with women? Sure he has to compete with a candidate who has built a career on being female, and of course there is wonderful symbolism if she becomes the first woman president....But there are many women who prefer Bernie's positions and support him. It's not like Sanders' rallies and campaign supporters are an all-male's club.

[JaneyVee]

32. Anyone who can't realize that's not how the article begins is a complete fail.

And the author is a socialist, so her definition of centrist may be a bit different.

[Armstead]

36. The author is a Surrendering Socialist with no confidence in her own beliefs

"While Bernie’s redistributive economic policies might—in the long run—aid women more than Hillary’s more conservative ones, it is unlikely that most of them would ever make their way through a Congress beholden to Wall Street and corporate interests. And it is not at all clear to me that a gridlocked leftist vision would be better for women than the value-added of actually having a woman (with an agenda that shares much in common with this vision)—after all these years—in the Oval Office. Hillary in office will not usher in some profound realignment of US priorities and politics. But no mainstream, electable candidate is likely to do that in any case (see Obama’s legacy on that if you have any doubts). "

In otehr words, she is saying that her own principles and values are better and more helpful, bit it's not worth of trying to advance them, so we should all give up and settle for whatever crumbs we can get from the conservatives.

That's not very inspiring.

[JaneyVee]

37. Because of socialism's long list of "success".

[Armstead]

38. It has not succeeded in part because of peopel like her

I am a realist too, and know you've got to work within the system.

But that does not mean surrendering, and not taking advantage of real opportunities to gain political influence and actually work to convince people of the merits.

And once again, your dislike of "socialism" sounds quite conservative.

[thesquanderer]

59. Yes, she does sound defeatist here

Thats not a very optimistic quote... "While Bernie’s redistributive economic policies might—in the long run—aid women more than Hillary’s more conservative ones, it is unlikely that most of them would ever make their way through a Congress beholden to Wall Street and corporate interests."

Okay, let's even say that she's right, it is unlikely. Does that mean we don't even try? Like the saying goes, each long journey begins with a single step. If we are supposed to wait until progressive policies are likely to succeed before electing someone who wants to take us in that direction, we may never get there. There's a certain amount of chicken-and-egg here.

Following the author's logic, it sounds like we could be condemned to doing things largely friendly to Wall St and corporate interests, forever. Because until we elect someone willing to push back, push back is not going to happen. Whether it completely succeeds the first time or not isn't the point. You don't give up because success is unlikely. You have to start making inroads, having the conversations, and having the leadership. HRC is not that candidate.

I'd rather start moving the country in that direction with Sanders in 2016 than to have to wait for someone like Warren in 2024.

[Armstead]

61. Exactly

[Scootaloo]

51. Centrism is specific term, not a matter of perspective

It's a specific political term used to describe specific political outlooks. C'mon Janey, if you're going to try to discuss politics you can at least get the basics down.

And didn't socialists drive you out of your blue collar neighborhood and turn it into an art gallery?

[thesquanderer]

29. re: "the inspiration for young girls and women"

I question how important that is. I don't think it is at all comparable to what Obama's election meant for black and minority youth. Heck, you could as easily say that Sanders would be an inspiration for Jewish youth. I mean, okay, I suppose he might be, but really, is there a great community need there? I don't think young women or Jews generally suffer from the kind of disenfranchisement and sense of futility based on their gender/religion that black and minority youth have often experienced. To some extent, Obama's election sent a powerful "you can succeed" message to people who often felt a sense of hopelessness. But I think today's female and Jewish youth already generally believe they can succeed (in however they choose to define success).

Before Obama, I bet lots of people of color felt there was virtually no chance they'd see an AA president in their life time. I don't think many people today doubt that a woman can become president, regardless of whether or not Hillary ends up being the first one. In that respect, it terms of the psyche of the culture, that glass ceiling has already been broken... it's just a matter of when the right candidate comes along (which may or may not be Hillary). When Obama announced, there was lots of conversation about whether a black man could be elected president in this country. But we're not really having that conversation about whether a woman could be elected, it's pretty much a given. Heck, there's been more argument about whether a socialist could be elected.

[JaneyVee]

33. You don't think women face futility?!

WOW. Women everywhere in the world are oppressed. Even in America.

[thesquanderer]

35. For all that, I was talking specifically about Americans...

Last edited Fri Dec 11, 2015, 12:41 AM - Edit history (1)

...and yes, I think it is rare that (non-minority) American girls and young women look at their future with the sense of futility that many in the minority communities have dealt with. And I mean specifically as a result of their being female (as opposed to having a sense of futility for other reasons that might have to do with other circumstances they find themselves in). And to further clarify, I'm talking about large swaths of the population in general, not something like, for example, cases of abuse.

[Hekate]

34. KnR

[Karma13612]

40. Back in the summer, I went to a Bernie event

and talked with a fair number of young (college age) women who were far from impressed with Hillary. I asked how that felt about her.

They don't feel that Hillary understands their issues and philosophy about where we need the country to head.

They certainly want a female president, but the RIGHT one, not just any woman.

[JaneyVee]

42. Hillary is not just any woman.

She is supremely qualified, which is why she has the union endorsements, party endorsements, and endorsements from civil rights icons like Rep John Lewis, Gloria Steinem, Dolores Huerta, Jim Obgerfell, etc. She IS the right woman. Strong, smart, successful.

Btw, she has huge support among women.

[ismnotwasm]

41. Holy shit

Finally--This describes much of how I feel. If I'm going to really a discussion of politics, one that is actually meaningful to me, it has to include feminism. It has to include social justice. It has to address how we reasonably promote change by changing culture. We change culture by changing the power dynamics of gender and race. We end the values of toxic whiteness. We end the values of toxic masculinity --and by no means am I saying that white and/or male individuals are toxic, I am talking about the dominant culture, the values and norms.

I'm a stronger supporter of Hillary than the author, but like her I get the attraction of Sanders, er, well I USED to anyway, at this point my close second choice is O'Malley all the way--but I understood what change agent Hillary's elevation to POTUS would make her. What it represents. This OP won't go over well here, and I understand that. I've been a feminist on DU for a long time--it's not a feminist friendly place particularly--

Damn it was good to read here though.

[JaneyVee]

43. K AND R!

Thanks buddy.

[Starry Messenger]

48. +1

[Persondem]

47. Nice article. Thank you for posting. K & R nt

[Matariki]

49. Worthwhile article

thanks for posting it.

[artislife]

50. I want Bernie to win

So he can attain the status of being the chosen person. I think of all the Jewish girls and boys and the knowledge that America has overcome its self righteous Christian standard and finally elect a person who doesn't declare Jesus as their own personal savior will be a great milestone in religious tolerance.


One day then, we could have a Buddist or Pagan...

[Romulox]

53. If you support Neo-Liberals, you *are* a Neo-liberal. Not a "socialist" anything. nt

[Nitram]

62. If the only way you can make an argument is to attach labels that won't stick...

...then you're not adding much to the conversation. If you sat down and talked with someone who has been a longtime supporter of Hillary Clinton, you might get a more 3-dimensional view of who they are. Neo-Liberal is a pigeonhole into which you cannot stuff every Clinton supporter, try as you might.

[Romulox]

64. The label sticks, because it's accurate. Hillary is a Center/Right politician.

Her supporters are Center/Right too, because that's what they support.

[ibegurpard]

65. yup

They've dragged the party to ruin abd want us to continue following them anyway.

[akbacchus_BC]

54. You left the other thread to start another thread?

Answer people when they try to interact with you!

Hell no, I would never vote for Mrs. Clinton, she is a liar and the shit she pulled during the primary between her and President Obama is unforgivable. She is not going to win, sorry but true!

Mr. Sanders is going to be your next President unless the rats stifle Black and Hispanic votes, then trump is your President.

When did a candidate ran twice and won the Presidency?

[thesquanderer]

55. Reagan and Nixon both ran twice, and won the 2nd time, at least (n/t)

[Orsino]

68. Sanders' platform is by far the better for most women (and everyone else)...

...but only Clinton can personally shatter that particular glass ceiling. This is IMO the only good reason for preferring Clinton in the primary, and I hope I never discount it.

Vote hard.