Sanders says hes on verge of pulling off major political upset

[FreakinDJ]

Sanders says hes on verge of pulling off major political upset


BOSTON —Sen. Bernie Sanders campaigning in New Hampshire Monday said there is a path of victory for him in both Iowa and New Hampshire

"If we can win in Iowa, if we can win in New Hampshire, we have a real path to victory to pulling off one of the major political upsets in the history of our country," Sanders told about a hundred students at Nashua Community College.

Polls have Sanders about 10 points ahead of his democratic opponent Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire and some polls indicating he is less than 10 points behind her in Iowa. Sanders boasted unlike Clinton he's collected 800,000 contributions here in New Hampshire alone with the average donation $30.

"Secretary Clinton has a lot of money. So do we. I think at the end of the day, the fact that people are tired of establishment politics and tired of establishment economics, want real change, what real leadership to stand up the billionaire class, that is going to give us the edge and lead us to victory," said Sanders who has raised less than half of Clinton's more than $100 million.

http://www.wcvb.com/politics/sanders-says-hes-on-verge-of-pulling-off-major-political-upset/36963506

[FloridaBlues]

1. "IF" is the important quote here.

He needs to do better in national polling and Iowa to make his IF wish come true.
No easy feat.

[pengu]

13. Really just Iowa/NH, national polling doesn't really matter right now

The national polling would change quite a bit if he takes Iowa and New Hampshire.

[VanillaRhapsody]

22. IF

Being the operative word...
And its a big one...

[cosmicone]

101. IF

my aunt had a mustache, I'd have called her "uncle."

[VanillaRhapsody]

103. then Bob's your Uncle!

[roguevalley]

133. he who laughs last laughs best. go bernie. :D

[VanillaRhapsody]

134. Yeah and boy howdy do I LOVE

Hillary Clinton's laugh!

HRC 2016!

[Fawke Em]

192. Why? Her laugh makes me cringe!

It's like a screech.

[bahrbearian]

206. Haunted House's use it at Holloween.

[Hiraeth]

212. oh my!

[Plucketeer]

216. And PLEASE....

won't someone fumigate her jacket?!!! The bugs just continue to crawl out of the neck and need brushing away. Sorta like the bugs inherent in her campaign. Of course, once Iowa and NH are in the rear view mirror, she'll be able to deliver more $200K speeches to the minimum wage crowd to empower them and maybe afford some fresh clothes for herself.

[ish of the hammer]

225. I especially enjoyed her laugh when Hill was talking about killing that Libyan guy!

so Presidential and all!

[VanillaRhapsody]

230. I will love it even more...

When it is the official Presidential laugh!

HRC 2016!

[ish of the hammer]

235. I hope you are wrong in your belief that Clinton will be president

but I hope you live long enough to see the results if it does happen.

[VanillaRhapsody]

236. You can hope she loses all you want...

and don't you worry...I will live long enough to see what happens when a WOMAN runs the show....

(by the way...no self respecting Democrat believes any Democrat would be a worse disaster than a Republican nor wishes such failure on any Democrat)

[ish of the hammer]

237. welfare "reform", mass incarceration, Glass -Steagall repeal, - supported by Hillary and

Hillary in Libya, Columbia, Honduras and Ukraine. Bad choices all, but the results were rarely immediate. So if Hillary becomes president, I hope you live long enough to see the results. I didn't say I'd like a republican president, nor did I wish for failure on a Dem. but you clearly see my point - that i believe that Clinton will be a failure. hence Sanders.
btw.. what's a self respecting democrat?

[VanillaRhapsody]

238. really now?

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm



Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+5 points on Social scale) It's big government to intervene on woman's right to choose: Strongly Favors topic 1
Lift ban on stem cell research to cure devastating diseases: Favors topic 1
Respect Roe v. Wade, but make adoptions easier too: Favors topic 1
Alternatives to pro-choice like forced pregnancy in Romania: Strongly Favors topic 1
Must safeguard constitutional rights, including choice: Favors topic 1
Remain vigilant on a woman’s right to chose: Favors topic 1
Keep abortion safe, legal and rare: Favors topic 1
Being pro-choice is not being pro-abortion: Favors topic 1
Supports parental notice & family planning: Opposes topic 1
No abortion for sex selection in China: Opposes topic 1
Voted liberal line on partial birth & harm to fetus: Favors topic 1
Endorsed Recommended by EMILY's List of pro-choice women: Favors topic 1
Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record: Strongly Favors topic 1
Expand embryonic stem cell research: Favors topic 1
Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women: Favors topic 1
Sponsored bill for emergency contraception for rape victims: Favors topic 1
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance: Strongly Favors topic 1
Provide emergency contraception at military facilities: Favors topic 1
Ensure access to and funding for contraception: Favors topic 1
Focus on preventing pregnancy, plus emergency contraception: Favors topic 1
NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion: Strongly Favors topic 1
NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP: Favors topic 1
NO on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life: Strongly Favors topic 1
NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime: Favors topic 1
YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives: Favors topic 1
NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions: Favors topic 1
YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines: Favors topic 1
Strongly Favors topic 2:
Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-5 points on Economic scale) Some world leaders are still misogynistic: Favors topic 2
Human rights are women’s rights: Neutral on topic 2
Women’s rights are human rights: Favors topic 2
We need a New Deal for Communities of Color: Strongly Favors topic 2
OpEd: "18 million cracks" meant "lingering sexism": Strongly Favors topic 2
Equal pay is not yet equal: Strongly Favors topic 2
We’ve come a long way on race, but we have a long way to go: Strongly Favors topic 2
1988: Instituted gender diversity Report Card within ABA: Strongly Opposes topic 2
Argued with Bill Clinton about diluting affirmative action: Strongly Favors topic 2
Apologize for slavery, but concentrate on civil rights now: Favors topic 2
Shift from group preferences to economic empowerment of all: Neutral on topic 2
Sponsored bill maintaining role of women in armed forces: Favors topic 2
Rated 96% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance: Strongly Favors topic 2
Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery: Strongly Favors topic 2
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment: Strongly Favors topic 2
Reinforce anti-discrimination and equal-pay requirements: Favors topic 2
Ban discriminatory compensation; allow 2 years to sue: Favors topic 2
Sponsored bill enforcing against gender pay discrimination: Strongly Favors topic 2
Strongly Favors topic 3:
Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale) Increase America’s commitment against Global AIDS: Favors topic 3
I re-evaluated & changed my mind on gay marriage: Favors topic 3
DOMA discrimination holds us back from a more perfect union: Strongly Favors topic 3
I support gay marriage personally and as law: Strongly Favors topic 3
Let states decide gay marriage; they’re ahead of feds: Favors topic 3
2004:defended traditional marriage; 2006:voted for same-sex: Strongly Favors topic 3
Federal Marriage Amendment would be terrible step backwards: Favors topic 3
Gays deserve domestic partnership benefits: Strongly Favors topic 3
Military service based on conduct, not sexual orientation: Favors topic 3
More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes: Strongly Favors topic 3
Rated 89% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance: Strongly Favors topic 3
Provide benefits to domestic partners of Federal employees: Strongly Favors topic 3
YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes: Strongly Favors topic 3
NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage: Strongly Favors topic 3
Opposes topic 4:
Keep God in the public sphere
(+2 points on Social scale) Teach Bible as history & literature; not science or religion: Opposes topic 4
Partner with faith based community in empowerment zones: Strongly Favors topic 4
Tap into churches to avoid more Louima & Diallo cases: Favors topic 4
Community involvement helps, but only in short term: Favors topic 4
Link payments to good parenting behavior: Opposes topic 4
Allow student prayer, but no religious instruction: Opposes topic 4
Character education: teach empathy & self-discipline: Favors topic 4
Change what kids see in the media: Favors topic 4
Co-sponsored bill to criminalize flag-burning: Favors topic 4
Rated 0% by the Christian Coalition: an anti-Family-Value voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 4
Rated 100% by the AU, indicating support of church-state separation: Strongly Opposes topic 4
NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration: Opposes topic 4
Strongly Favors topic 5:
Expand ObamaCare
(-5 points on Economic scale) Outcry if AIDS were leading disease of young whites: Favors topic 5
Lower costs and improve quality and cover everybody: Strongly Favors topic 5
Supply more medical needs of families, & insure all children: Strongly Favors topic 5
Medicare should be strengthened today: Favors topic 5
Smaller steps to progress on health care: Favors topic 5
Guaranteed benefits & focus on prevention: Neutral on topic 5
2006: If I can't do universal coverage, why run?: Strongly Favors topic 5
Universal health care will not work if it is voluntary: Strongly Favors topic 5
Universal health care coverage by the end of my second term: Strongly Favors topic 5
We need a uniquely American solution to health care: Favors topic 5
Health care initiatives are her first priority in Senate: Strongly Favors topic 5
Establish "report cards" on HMO quality of care: Favors topic 5
Invest funds to alleviate the nursing shortage: Favors topic 5
Let states make bulk Rx purchases, and other innovations: Opposes topic 5
Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record: Strongly Favors topic 5
Preserve access to Medicaid & SCHIP during economic downturn: Strongly Favors topic 5
NO on means-testing to determine Medicare Part D premium: Favors topic 5
NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit: Favors topic 5
NO on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit: Opposes topic 5
YES on increasing Medicaid rebate for producing generics: Favors topic 5
YES on negotiating bulk purchases for Medicare prescription drug: Strongly Favors topic 5
YES on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D: Favors topic 5
NO on limiting medical liability lawsuits to $250,000: Opposes topic 5
YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D: Favors topic 5
YES on overriding veto on expansion of Medicare: Favors topic 5
Strongly Opposes topic 6:
Privatize Social Security
(-5 points on Economic scale) Enhance benefits for poorest recipients: Opposes topic 6
1997: Hillary warned against privatizing Social Security: Strongly Opposes topic 6
Soc.Sec. one of greatest inventions in American democracy: Strongly Opposes topic 6
Social Security protects families, not just retirees: Strongly Opposes topic 6
All should join the debate now to preserve future solvency: Opposes topic 6
Create Retirement Savings Accounts: Favors topic 6
Rated 100% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 6
NO on establishing reserve funds & pre-funding for Social Security: Opposes topic 6
Strongly Opposes topic 7:
Vouchers for school choice
(-5 points on Economic scale) OpEd: Common Core recycled from Clintons in 1980s and 1990s: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Fully fund special education & 21st century classrooms: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Vouchers aren't constitutional; charter schools are ok: Opposes topic 7
Supports public school choice; but not private nor parochial: Opposes topic 7
Vouchers drain money from public schools: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Fight with Gore for public schools; no voucher “gimmicks”: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Charter schools provide choice within public system: Opposes topic 7
Vouchers siphon off much-needed resources: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Parents can choose, but support public schools: Opposes topic 7
Supports public school choice and charter schools: Favors topic 7
Solemn vow never to abandon our public schools: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Offer every parent Charter Schools and public school choice: Opposes topic 7
Rated 82% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes: Strongly Opposes topic 7
YES on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors: Opposes topic 7
YES on funding student testing instead of private tutors: Opposes topic 7
YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies: Opposes topic 7
Strongly Opposes topic 8:
EPA regulations are too restrictive
(+5 points on Social scale) $5B for green-collar jobs in economic stimulus package: Opposes topic 8
Voted against and consistently opposed to Yucca Mountain: Strongly Opposes topic 8
Scored 100% on Humane Society Scorecard on animal protection: Strongly Opposes topic 8
Remove PCBs from Hudson River by dredging 200 miles: Opposes topic 8
Rated 89% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes: Strongly Opposes topic 8
EPA must do better on mercury clean-up: Opposes topic 8
Grants for beach water pollution under Clean Water Act: Opposes topic 8
Strengthen prohibitions against animal fighting: Strongly Opposes topic 8
Opposes topic 9:
Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale) Get body cameras on police; tackle mass incarceration: Strongly Opposes topic 9
Longtime advocate of death penalty, with restrictions: Strongly Favors topic 9
Address the unacceptable increase in incarceration: Opposes topic 9
Mandatory sentences have been too widely used: Strongly Opposes topic 9
Give kids after-school activities to prevent gangs: Opposes topic 9
Spend more time with kids to prevent violence: Opposes topic 9
Supports citizen patrols & 3-Strikes-You’re-Out: Favors topic 9
Supports “Three Strikes” and more prison: Strongly Favors topic 9
End hate crimes and other intolerance: Favors topic 9
Require DNA testing for all federal executions: Opposes topic 9
Increase funding for "COPS ON THE BEAT" program: Opposes topic 9
Reduce recidivism by giving offenders a Second Chance: Strongly Opposes topic 9
YES on reinstating $1.15 billion funding for the COPS Program: Opposes topic 9
Strongly Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(-5 points on Economic scale) Reverse gun manufacturer immunity; let them get sued: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Don't shield gun manufacturers from lawsuits:I vote that way: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Gun control advocates see Clinton as an ally: Opposes topic 10
Against illegal guns, crack down on illegal gun dealers: Opposes topic 10
Get assault weapons & guns off the street: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Background check system could prevent Virginia Tech massacre: Opposes topic 10
Congress’ failure at Littleton response inspired Senate run: Opposes topic 10
Limit access to weapons; look for early warning signs: Opposes topic 10
License and register all handgun sales: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Gun control protects our children: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Don’t water down sensible gun control legislation: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Lock up guns; store ammo separately: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Get weapons off the streets; zero tolerance for weapons: Opposes topic 10
Prevent unauthorized firearm use with "smart gun" technology: Opposes topic 10
NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence: Strongly Opposes topic 10
NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Strongly Favors topic 11:
Higher taxes on the wealthy
(-5 points on Economic scale) Wealthy pay too little and middle class pay too much: Strongly Favors topic 11
Rescind tax cuts for those making more than $250,000 a year: Strongly Favors topic 11
Pay down debt & cut taxes within balanced budget: Favors topic 11
GOP tax plan would hurt New York’s students: Favors topic 11
Rated 21% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes: Strongly Favors topic 11
Rated 80% by the CTJ, indicating support of progressive taxation: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on raising the Death Tax exemption to $5M from $1M: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on allowing AMT reduction without budget offset: Favors topic 11
YES on reducing marriage penalty instead of cutting top tax rates: Favors topic 11
YES on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction: Favors topic 11
NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years: Strongly Favors topic 11
YES on extending the tax cuts on capital gains and dividends: Strongly Opposes topic 11
YES on $47B for military by repealing capital gains tax cut: Favors topic 11
YES on retaining reduced taxes on capital gains & dividends: Strongly Opposes topic 11
NO on permanently repealing the `death tax`: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on supporting permanence of estate tax cuts: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on raising estate tax exemption to $5 million: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax: Strongly Favors topic 11
Favors topic 12:
Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+2 points on Social scale) Net immigration from Mexico has fallen to zero: Favors topic 12
Consider halting certain raids on illegal immigrant families: Favors topic 12
More border patrolling on both Mexican AND Canadian borders: Opposes topic 12
Anti-immigrant bill would have criminalized Jesus Christ: Strongly Favors topic 12
Sanctuary cities ok; local police can’t enforce immigration: Favors topic 12
Comprehensive reform to get 12 million out of shadows: Strongly Favors topic 12
Introduce a path to earn citizenship in the first 100 days: Strongly Favors topic 12
Deporting all illegal immigrants is unrealistic: Strongly Favors topic 12
Illegal immigrants with driver’s licenses puts them at risk: Opposes topic 12
Oppose granting driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants: Opposes topic 12
Sponsored bill covering child resident aliens under Medicaid: Favors topic 12
Sponsored bill funding social services for noncitizens: Favors topic 12
Rated 8% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities": Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on giving Guest Workers a path to citizenship: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on establishing a Guest Worker program: Favors topic 12
YES on building a fence along the Mexican border: Strongly Opposes topic 12
YES on eliminating the "Y" nonimmigrant guestworker program: Neutral topic 12
NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on comprehensive immigration reform: Strongly Favors topic 12
Opposes topic 13:
Support & expand free trade
(-3 points on Economic scale) I absorbed new info and changed my mind to oppose TPP: Strongly Opposes topic 13
Chief advocate for Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP): Strongly Favors topic 13
TPP agreement creates more growth and better growth: Favors topic 13
Global trading system isn't up to standards of fairness: Opposes topic 13
Smart, pro-American trade: NAFTA has hurt workers: Strongly Opposes topic 13
No fast-track authority for this president: Opposes topic 13
Defended outsourcing of US jobs to India: Favors topic 13
1980s: Loved Wal-Mart's "Buy America" program: Opposes topic 13
Globalization should not substitute for humanization: Opposes topic 13
Supports MFN for China, despite concerns over human rights: Strongly Favors topic 13
Build a rule-based global trading system: Favors topic 13
Rated 17% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 13
YES on removing common goods from national security export rules: Favors topic 13
YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam: Favors topic 13
NO on extending free trade to Andean nations: Strongly Opposes topic 13
YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore: Favors topic 13
YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile: Favors topic 13
NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade: Strongly Opposes topic 13
YES on free trade agreement with Oman: Strongly Favors topic 13
Opposes topic 14:
Support American Exceptionalism
(-3 points on Economic scale) US support & no-fly zone, but UN troops on ground in Darfur: Strongly Opposes topic 14
Support UN reform because US benefits: Opposes topic 14
Engage in world affairs, including human rights: Strongly Opposes topic 14
2002 Iraq speech criticized both Saddam and U.N.: Opposes topic 14
2002: Attacking Iraq "not a good option" but authorized it: Favors topic 14
Keep Cuban embargo; pay UN bills: Opposes topic 14
Urged President to veto UN condemnation of Israel: Favors topic 14
Voted against Levin Amendment: it gave UN veto over US: Favors topic 14
Dems believe in fighting terror with cooperation: Strongly Opposes topic 14
Restore habeas corpus for detainees in the War on Terror: Opposes topic 14
YES on preserving habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees: Strongly Opposes topic 14
YES on requiring CIA reports on detainees & interrogation methods: Strongly Opposes topic 14
NO on removing need for FISA warrant for wiretapping abroad: Strongly Opposes topic 14
Opposes topic 15:
Expand the military
(+2 points on Social scale) Balance lower military & higher diplomacy budget: Opposes topic 15
Our troops are stretched; so increase size of military: Favors topic 15
There is no safe haven for the terrorists: Favors topic 15
Rated 100% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 15
Extend reserve retirement pay parity back to 9/11: Favors topic 15
Improve mental health care benefits for returning veterans: Favors topic 15
YES on requiring on-budget funding for Iraq, not emergency funding: Opposes topic 15
YES on limiting soldiers' deployment to 12 months: Opposes topic 15
Strongly Favors topic 16:
Make voter registration easier
(+5 points on Social scale) GOP is trying to suppress voter registration: Strongly Favors topic 16
Consider Constitutional Amendment against Citizen's United: Strongly Favors topic 16
Voter suppression revives old demons of discrimination: Favors topic 16
Stand for public financing and getting money out of politics: Strongly Favors topic 16
Presidents should reveal donations to their foundations: Strongly Favors topic 16
Move to public election financing, not banning lobbyists: Strongly Favors topic 16
Verified paper ballot for every electronic voting machines: Favors topic 16
Called for ban on all soft money in 2000 campaign: Favors topic 16
Prohibit 'voter caging' which intimidates minority voting: Favors topic 16
YES on banning campaign donations from unions & corporations: Favors topic 16
YES on banning "soft money" contributions and restricting issue ads: Favors topic 16
NO on establishing the Senate Office of Public Integrity: Opposes topic 16
NO on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress: Strongly Favors topic 16
Opposes topic 17:
Avoid foreign entanglements
(-3 points on Social scale) OpEd: More aggressive than most Dems on foreign policy: Opposes topic 17
Smartest strategic choice is peace: Opposes topic 17
Foreign aid spending is only 1%; lead by remaining engaged: Opposes topic 17
2002: Saddam gave sanctuary to terrorists including Al Qaeda: Opposes topic 17
Up to the Iraqis to decide the future they will have: Favors topic 17
Demand Bush to explain to Congress on his plan on Iraq: Opposes topic 17
Deauthorize Iraq war, and don’t grant new war authority: Opposes topic 17
Phased redeployment out of Iraq, beginning immediately: Opposes topic 17
Withdraw troops within 60 days after taking office: Opposes topic 17
No-fly zone in Syria, but no American troops on the ground: Opposes topic 17
Extend peace treaties to Palestinians, Syrians & Lebanese: Opposes topic 17
Voted for Iraq war based on available info; now would not: Favors topic 17
Progressive Internationalism: globalize with US pre-eminence: Favors topic 17
No troop surge: no military escalation in Iraq: Strongly Favors topic 17
Require Congress' approval before military action in Iran: Favors topic 17
YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq: Strongly Opposes topic 17
NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007: Strongly Opposes topic 17
YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008: Strongly Favors topic 17
Strongly Favors topic 18:
Prioritize green energy
(-5 points on Economic scale) Remove energy dependence on countries who would harm us: Strongly Favors topic 18
Stands for clean air and funding the EPA: Favors topic 18
Reduce air pollution to improve children’s health: Favors topic 18
Obama & I crashed China meeting and got climate change deal: Strongly Favors topic 18
Chinese participation is essential to climate change: Favors topic 18
$100B per year by 2020 for climate change mitigation: Strongly Favors topic 18
The steady march of climate change is obvious in the Arctic: Strongly Favors topic 18
Ratify Kyoto; more mass transit: Strongly Favors topic 18
Supports tradable emissions permits for greenhouse gases: Favors topic 18
Keep efficient air conditioner rule to conserve energy: Strongly Favors topic 18
Establish greenhouse gas tradeable allowances: Strongly Favors topic 18
Rated 100% by the CAF, indicating support for energy independence: Favors topic 18
Designate sensitive ANWR area as protected wilderness: Favors topic 18
Set goal of 25% renewable energy by 2025: Strongly Favors topic 18
Let states define stricter-than-federal emission standards: Strongly Favors topic 18
Gas tax holiday for the summer: Opposes topic 18
NO on terminating CAFE standards within 15 months: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill: Favors topic 18
YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%): Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge: Favors topic 18
YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning: Favors topic 18
YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies: Strongly Favors topic 18
Opposes topic 19:
Marijuana is a gateway drug
(+2 points on Social scale) Stop imprisoning marijuana users: Opposes topic 19
Medical marijuana now; wait-and-see on recreational pot: Opposes topic 19
Medical marijuana maybe ok; states decide recreational use: Opposes topic 19
Divert non-violent drug offenders away from prison: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Address drug problem with treatment and special drug courts: Strongly Opposes topic 19
End harsher sentencing for crack vs. powder cocaine: Opposes topic 19
Require chemical resellers to certify against meth use: Favors topic 19
Strongly Favors topic 20:
Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(-5 points on Economic scale)

[ish of the hammer]

239. I'm impressed. you're a really fast!

40 years in Alaska tells me that climate change is real and happening on a human time frame. I'll say it again, if Clinton wins, I hope you live long enough to see the results of her presidency.

whats a self-respecting democrat? I missed your answer.

[VanillaRhapsody]

240. Yes I am....

I will...and so will you....

she is not "anti-climate change" where on this fucking planet did you ever get that idea?


$5B for green-collar jobs in economic stimulus package. (Jan 2008)
Voted against and consistently opposed to Yucca Mountain. (Jan 2008)
A comprehensive energy plan as our Apollo moon shot. (Jan 2008)
Advocate a cap and trade system. (Dec 2007)
Better track kids’ products for exposures to toxic materials. (Dec 2007)
Support green-collar job training. (Aug 2007)
Put someone in charge of Katrina recovery who actually cares. (Aug 2007)
Overcome almost criminal indifference to Katrina rebuilding. (Jun 2007)
Launched EPA study of air quality at Ground Zero. (Jun 2007)
Scored 100% on Humane Society Scorecard on animal protection. (Jan 2007)
Stands for clean air and funding the EPA. (Sep 2000)
Reduce air pollution to improve children’s health. (Jun 1998)
Voted YES on including oil & gas smokestacks in mercury regulations. (Sep 2005)
Voted NO on confirming Gale Norton as Secretary of Interior. (Jan 2001)
Remove PCBs from Hudson River by dredging 200 miles. (Apr 2001)
Rated 89% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes. (Dec 2003)
EPA must do better on mercury clean-up. (Apr 2004)
Sponsored bill for tax credit to remove lead-based paint. (Nov 2005)
Sponsored bill for commission to examine Katrina response. (Sep 2005)
Sponsored health impact bill for environmental health. (Apr 2006)
Grants for beach water pollution under Clean Water Act. (Apr 2008)
Inter-state compact for Great Lakes water resources. (Jul 2008)
Strengthen prohibitions against animal fighting. (Jan 2007)

[ish of the hammer]

241. so what's a self-respecting democrat? still not seeing an answer.

does a self-respecting democrat take 200,000$ speaking fees from major banks and corporations?
does a self-respecting democrat help resource extraction and agricultural corporations in Columbia, Honduras and Libya?
does a self-respecting democrat support military coupes in other countries?

[840high]

226. Can't stand her laugh. Worse than chalk

on a blackboard.

[floriduck]

158. And if you'd have had

common sense, you'd be supporting Bernie.

[floriduck]

156. Book it, Danno.nm

[INdemo]

51. Bernie Sanders is doing much better on the favorabilty question

National polls dont mean much right now."If" ok After Bernie wins Iowa and NH take another look at national polls if you must.
The momentum gained will certainly give him a big boost.

People just dont trust Hillary.They question her closeness to big banks and Wall St.
Clinton's favorability numbers are worse than eight years ago. Quinnipiac University reported that over 50% of voters have an "unfavorable" impression of her, in addition to a startling 61% of voters finding Clinton "not honest and trustworthy."



Wins in Iowa and New Hampshire Will Propel Bernie Sanders to the Presidency

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/wins-in-iowa-and-new-hampshire-will-propel-bernie-sanders-to-the-presidency_b_8803144.html

[riversedge]

98. Another H.A. Goodman prediction. ha ha. He reminds me of baghdad bob.

[INdemo]

104. Did you read the article?

[Phlem]

143. Of course not.

They just like to come out and shit on Sanders supporters.

[INdemo]

159. Yep you are correct

[Bubzer]

144. Of course not. They like to pretend the author has no credibility because he changed his mind once.

Oddly, they don't hold hillary to the same standard.

[Gothmog]

183. Both Iowa and New Hampshire are not representative demographically of key Democratic states

Sanders does better in states with 90+% white voting populations but is not polling well in states that are more typical of the Democratic base. Sanders can win both Iowa and New Hampshire and still not get the nomination in part because states like Texas has almost three times the number of delegates as Iowa and New Hampshire combined and Hillary Clinton is polling very very well in Texas

[okasha]

220. He'll go splat

in Nevada and South Carolina no matter what happens in NH and Iowa. The notion that Hispanics and African Americans will suddenly luvluvluv Bernie if enough white folks vote for him is.. .I think I'll stop there.

[madokie]

2. Bernie is the real deal

Lots and lots of good, very little not good

[okasha]

222. "Real deal" is a perfectly meaningless phrase.

[chervilant]

229. "...perfectly meaningless"?

Another example wherein the irony is rich.

[pnwmom]

3. If he does he STILL won't have a clear path through South Carolina, where Hillary is ahead

by almost 50 points, and the rest of the southern states that Obama easily carried.

[AgingAmerican]

58. If he does they won't be able to black him out anymore

And his numbers will skyrocket

[pnwmom]

60. They won't be skyrocketing once the GOP starts the new birther story.

He was born in Russia and is a Russian spy, and that's why the went to Russia on their honeymoon.

Or whatever the big story about Sanders will be. Don't delude yourself -- the Rethugs will have one even if they have to make it out of thin air, as they did with Obama.

[AgingAmerican]

65. Nobody cares what they say

[pnwmom]

68. yeah right. His supporters are always arguing that he'll get more votes from

non-Dems than Hillary. The Rethugs will make sure he doesn't.

[AgingAmerican]

70. Republicans preach to their idiotic choir

Nobody cares about their stupid nonsense.

About 20% of GOP voters wil crossover for Sanders.

[pnwmom]

72. I think moderate Republican women, in the Susan Collins mold,

will crossover to vote for Hillary.

[AgingAmerican]

75. She will garner very few crossover votes

Especially not from Republicans and Independents. That's exactly why she would lose the general.

There is very little excitement around her, just name recognition.

[pnwmom]

77. The baby boomer women I know are excited about her

and can't understand why younger women are so confident sexism isn't a problem anymore.

[AgingAmerican]

80. Baby boomers are old people

People 50 plus. Older and elderly women wont put her over the top.

She garners zero excitement from the general population and would lose the general.

[pnwmom]

84. People 50 and older are solid voters, unlike millennials.

And many women in that age group will be proud to cast a vote for Hillary Clinton.

[AgingAmerican]

90. Well then you just hang your hopes on that sliver of demographic

Meanwhile the rest of the planet will vote Sanders

[pnwmom]

92. Yeah, and you can keep hoping those gun-toting Independents

and MinuteMen will be happy to vote for Bernie.

[Phlem]

145. I see how ya'll operate.

It's fucking HILarious!!!! Gotta shove the Hillary in everyone's face no matter what. Not only is that sad but it's got to be tiring.

[pnwmom]

165. Right. But the OP doesn't "shove the Bern in everyone's face" ?

[Phlem]

169. Oh Noes!!!!

Cause Hillary was never the anointed one in the 1st place. I has the sads, boo hooo.

[AgingAmerican]

207. Right, Independents are gun toting minutemen

Keep telling yourself that..

[NCTraveler]

124. "Meanwhile the rest of the planet will vote Sanders"

Love this. lol. Some truly believe it. Perfect parody of purity. Thanks. Excellent sarcasm. Straight out of the Colbert mold.

[Phlem]

146. Ahhh

another Third Way supporter. How quaint.

[JonLeibowitz]

117. Excuse me, without the younger voters (any demo less than 44), we would have Pres. Romney

I'll accept your apology.

[wildeyed]

122. Dems need all the demographics to win.

No demographic is monolithic in their support. AAs are the closest in their support of Democrats. This is why the GOP always try extra hard to suppress them. Jewish Americans used to be second. Not sure if that is still true. But I know plenty of Republican Jews too.

I am a white woman from the South who voted for Obama. And supported him in the primary a full 1-1/2 years before the General. I also volunteered with ACORN when that was possible. Pretty sure that put me in the minority of that demographic

I know many rabidly conservative 21 year olds, some of them educated, thoughtful and highly intelligent.

I am under 50, considered by most in the real world to be wildly liberal (not completely true) and yet I support Clinton this time. My good friend, an under-35 lesbian immigration rights activist whose wife was an avowed socialist since waaaay before that was cool also supports Hillary.

I am with you. Don't diss young voters. They are important and they are getting SCREWED by the job market, student loans, and will have the fun of fighting all the wars.

Also, don't diss older female voters. We are the soldiers of the Democratic Party and have been putting up with sexist bullshit from liberals and conservatives alike since before you whippersnappers were even born.

Winning elections is about turning out base voters (for dems that is women AND youngs) and then shaving off percentages of the oppositions support. Repub women, indys, etc. Let's not make stupid divisions in the base.

[pnwmom]

168. You are just as responsible for your demographic not voting

as I am for how they vote.

Which is to say, neither of us are.

[JonLeibowitz]

174. Younger voters might not vote as reliably, but older voters who do are more reliably GOP

Do you not see that without sub-44 yr old voters in 2012 we wouldn't have a Democratic president?

[pnwmom]

178. Do you not see that if enough over 50's didn't vote for Obama

we also wouldn't have him as President?

[JonLeibowitz]

184. Of course I see that. But you are casting younger voters as unreliable.

[pnwmom]

186. No, that they have a history of not voting in high numbers.

But maybe this new cohort will be different.

[Karma13612]

214. 61+, white female, college educated,

voting for Bernie Sanders

I would have voted for Elizabeth Warren also.

Of course I want a female president someday, but not at the expense of the entire middle-class, and the health of the planet.

Gimme Bernie or gimme Beth

No way 3rd way Hilla-ray

[snpsmom]

102. Baby boomer woman

who always votes for Democrats here. I'm not excited about Hillary in the least.

[libdem4life]

128. Same here. Any others around here?

[appalachiablue]

139. Here.

[bullsnarfle]

140. Roger Wilco...

one right here.

[tblue37]

200. Me, too. Age 65. Feeling the Bern. nt

[Michigan-Arizona]

204. Here n/t

[Hiraeth]

215. Here.

[Autumn Colors]

136. Over-50 female here ...

Sanders has my vote in the primary.

[floriduck]

161. It's the "Shoulder Pad" crowd

That can't grasp the logic of millennial women who see Hill as dangerous.

[wildeyed]

121. Do you know any?

I do. Some older pro-choice, white "Republican" women will cross over to vote for her. I put the quotes on Republican, because many that I know are pretty confused about what is going on in their own party. My MIL and her sister voted for a fairly liberal white woman against a snarly old GOP guy for congress last time. They remember back alley abortions and how even "good" girls needed them sometimes.

Don't think they would go for Sanders. The flip side is they remember the cold war and think Socialism is the devil.

[KingCharlemagne]

152. I don't suppose it would help matters to point out that Sanders is a SINO (Socialist

in Name Only)? His own branding notwithstanding, Sanders is at most a 'Social Democrat' in the Western European mode. He does not believe in the public ownership of the means of production, a core principle of all strands of 'Socialism'.

[wildeyed]

180. Not to my MIL.

If she was paying attention, she would have stopped being an R years ago. She mostly sticks her head in the sand and hums loudly when confronted with the radical insanity of her party. If it is Trump she will either not vote or vote Clinton. Not Sanders. Probably would vote for Cruz or Rubio. My best guess anyway.

[Paka]

203. I'm over 70 and female.

I remember the cold war well, and think Democratic Socialism is a great idea. In my mind, corporate "third way" crap is the devil.

I'm supporting Bernie for the win.

[Hiraeth]

213. Sorry, they will vote for Carly Fiorina. At least the ones I know have told me so.

Anecdotal evidence, I know.

[pnwmom]

217. Fiorina has almost zero chance of being the nominee. So then what? nt

[Hiraeth]

219. They will hold their nose and vote for the GOP nominee is my guess but, I will ask them

and report back.

A few of these women did cross over in '08 to vote for HRC but, they are not feeling her this time around and (I know how ironic is this) call HRC a big liar .... and No I didn't mention how many lies Carly has told.

[mythology]

126. 20% of Republicans are going to vote for a socialist?

They won't bother with the difference that he's a Democratic Socialist. There is nothing to suggest Sanders would do that we'll with Republicans.

[AgingAmerican]

208. Watch Sanders speech at Liberty U

At least 20%. And he isn't a Socialist. He is a Democratic Socialist.

[Gothmog]

185. Sanders would get virtually no cross over support from GOP

NO republican would support a self-proclaimed socialist. The only republicans who are supporting Sanders are the people like the National Review who want to hurt the Clinton efforts. The idiots at the National Review are now urging conservatives to support Bernie Sanders http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420262/bernie-sanders-republicans-myra-adams

Support Bernie Sanders!

This is a call to action for every Republican anxious to win back the White House in 2016. Bernie Sanders, the socialist U.S. senator from Vermont, is now surging in his quest to win the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination. He is attracting media attention and large crowds, and is invigorated by a New Hampshire–primary poll showing him only 10 points behind frontrunner Hillary Clinton.

After a GOP power player sent me a piece from left-leaning Salon headlined “Hillary Clinton is going to lose: She doesn’t even see the frustrated progressive wave that will nominate Bernie Sanders,” my heart went pitter-patter, beginning to sense an opportunity. But it was not until I saw a headline in The Hill warning that the “Sanders surge is becoming a bigger problem for Clinton,” accompanied by “It may be time for Hillary Clinton to take the challenge from Sen. Bernie Sanders more seriously,” that I was truly motivated to join Team Bernie and rally my fellow Republicans to do the same.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420262/bernie-sanders-republicans-myra-adams

The GOP is urging people to support sanders because the conservatives know that they can not beat Hillary Clinton. The author of this article actually made a contribution to Sanders.

[Fawke Em]

193. False.

He ALREADY gets 25 percent of the Republican vote in Vermont.

The NR's position is dead in the water.

[Gothmog]

194. Do you have a reliable link for this claim?

Even if this was true and could be verified by non-online polls, Sanders' experience is not transferable to other states in that most republicans do not like socialism. This is from a paper in Texas http://www.fortbendstar.com/2015/08/05/theres-no-room-for-socialism-in-fort-bend-county/ Texas has three times the number of delegates as Iowa and New Hampshire combined and I doubt that Sanders will qualify for delegates in many of the non-urban senate districts (Texas allocates delegates both on the basis of state Senate Districts and statewide and there is a 15% cutoff to get delegates).

[Ed Suspicious]

227. 25% of the Republican vote in Vermont.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/18/bernie_sanders_i_got_25_of_the_republican_vote_in_vermont.html

[Ed Suspicious]

228. related

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/9/21/1423474/-Bernie-Tied-for-First-Among-Vermont-Republicans

[sorechasm]

4. Focused upon the big picture (defeating the GOP), Sanders is the better choice because

While Sanders has roughly the same support as Trump in national polls, between 20 percent and 30 percent, and leads by wider margins than Clinton in matchups against Trump, Ben Carson and Sen. Ted Cruz, he pointed to a recent study showing how he is almost ignored by major media outlets compared to Clinton and Trump.

Some find the truth very intimidating.

Incremental progressive politics is not enough to defeat the blaring trumpets of deceit.
We need to trust our leaders, and only one candidate is trustworthy.

Feel the Bern.

[upaloopa]

6. National polls showing who's beating who this far out are meaningless.

If Bernie ever got into the general the repubs would eat him alive with his socialist raise taxes for free stuff campaign.

He can't even sell that to the majority of Democrats.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. "Socialist raise taxes for free stuff"

I remember when Republican talking points were banned on DU.

[upaloopa]

24. He's not going to raise taxes? He's not a Socialist?

He's not for free college and free medical care?

Bernie said all that so why is my saying it repub talking points?


Wake up and smell the coffee. Everyone would be talking about it if he ever was in a general campaign.

[MannyGoldstein]

42. Those Commies want free defense, police, firefighting, sewers, roads...

Of course, none of those things are free - the 'free stuff!!!' meme is just far-Right spew.

Sounds like you'll vote for the person who promises to take away socialized defense, police, firefighting, sewers, roads, and so forth.

Shame.

[redstateblues]

108. Roads are paid for with the gas tax. I get a water/sewer bill every month

They would chew Bernie up over his Socialist leanings. You don't think they will make hay out of "Honeymoon in Moscow"? Whistling past the graveyard

[Kentonio]

110. The gas tax doesn't even come close to paying for roads..

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/11/02/gas-taxes-dont-cover-us-road-costs-not-even-close/

[DhhD]

56. Finally, someone to make the 1% accountable by using a small transaction tax on Wall

Street business, to pay for all that, Free Stuff, for Main Street. Finally a Democrat, known as Bernie Sanders, will follow up on the very reason that Obama was elected in the primary over the 1 Percenter, HRC.

[upaloopa]

59. Presidents don't make tax policy. Congress does. We have a repub Congress

You are all voting for talking points. If Bernie were President on January 2017 he'd sit in the White House and ask. What do we do now?

[thesquanderer]

71. Either Dem will likely start with an uncooperative Congress.

You don't give up because success is unlikely. You have to start making inroads, having the conversations, and having the leadership. Every long journey starting with one step, etc.

[pnwmom]

63. A small transaction tax on Wall street will barely begin to pay for all the things

Bernie has promised and his supporters expect.

[AgingAmerican]

69. It will be cheaper than what we have now

And we will get a lot more for our money

[pnwmom]

74. What will be cheaper? That tax won't provide nearly enough.

And good luck on getting it through Congress.

On yeah, Sanders will have that magic rifle to wave.

[AgingAmerican]

76. Waaaaay cheaper

And people will no longer lose their homes because of medical issues. Or be dragged down for decades with student loan debt. It's a win win. No downside.

[pnwmom]

63. delete dupe

[AgingAmerican]

61. Not free. Paid for.

And cheaper than what we have now.

[rhett o rick]

196. I think you mean drink the kool-aid. Just go with the authoritarian leadership of the billionaires.

They promise to be nice to you after they fleece you of all your wealth. If you think 50,000,000 Americans living in poverty is bad, just support the billionaires and watch that number grow.

[Motown_Johnny]

16. His numbers for the General are better than Hillary's.

In head to head match ups, in overall approval and overall trustworthy numbers he is well ahead of Hillary.

Also, he is far less likely to make crazy claims like running from snipers.



He is a much better bet than Hillary in the General.

[VanillaRhapsody]

25. Bunk....

He is getting Republican Kid Gloves.....they will rip him to shreds over his Socialism. DOA.

[daleanime]

44. Let them try, unlike Hillary he'll proudly take them on from his well established positions....

You see, none of us are ashamed of what we believe. And Democrats telling Democrats not to pursue Democratic values because their are "unrealistic" is the ending note of the Democratic Party.

[PosterChild]

209. Yep. he would take them on, and spend all his time . ...

.... lecturing about the variaties of socialism and which sects he supports and which he doesn't . And lose votes every time he does

And then the clincher....The repugs slogan will be make America great again, and bernie will want to make America Norwegian .

[daleanime]

223. Oh no, a politician who actually talks....

about the details of governing. That would never fly in America!

Let me just respond with this, if Hillary was such a great candidate, she wouldn't be a candidate, she would be president.

Have a lovely night.

[PosterChild]

232. ideologies are not the details of governance ....

..... they are the guiding principles. The problem with running an ideological campaign is that it ignores the details. Blathering about ideologies distracts from the details and gives the impression (which may be true) that you are out to fundimentaly restructure society and make radical changes.

Sorry , but that doesn't sell.

If socialism was such a great ideology, it wouldn't be an ideology, it would be the goveerning constitution. Since, like, for over a hundred years. That hasn't happened, and for good reason. And it isn't going to happen in 2016.

[daleanime]

233. So the US isn't a socialist nation?

You've convinced me. Health care for the people, bad idea. Education for the people, bad idea. War is too profitable to be avoided. A politician who actually believes in what he says could never find supporters in this nation and the idea that we can work together to improve everyone's life is just laughable.




Do you realize how silly you 'concerns' look when weighted against human lives? Not that anything I could say would ever change your mind. Take care of your self and try to stay safe.

[PosterChild]

242. MY concerns? No, the concerns...

.... of the vast majority of Amercan voters. Even atheiests poll higher than socialists. There are fewer people who would vote for a socialist than for an atheist...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/17/could-a-socialist-actually-be-elected-president/

The United States isn't a socialist country and neither is bernie's much beloved Denmark

http://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism," he said, "therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."

Of course no one will be concerned about Denmark during the election. They will be concerned about Venezuela. Unlike Denmark's leadership, Venezuela's leaders actually call themselves democratic socialists. Bernie will have to answer for it.

[thesquanderer]

89. Bunk...

They're both going to get ripped to shreds over all kinds of things. Sure, Repubs would throw everything possible at Sanders, but it would still be hard for them to turn as many non-Dems against BS as are already against HRC.

The people who truly recoil at the word "socialist" and would allow that to trump all the "real" issues won't be voting for Bernie OR Hillary in November.

[VanillaRhapsody]

93. they have TRIED to rip her to shreds her entire career

that's why they HATE her with a purple passion......She's STILL standing!

Now Sanders has NEVER had to face that.....

The people that recoil from the word Socialist and don't abhor ALL Capitalism...but are Democrats..are already voting for Hillary Clinton.

you see....Sanders HAS to win over HER support. He is failing...miserably.

[thesquanderer]

99. Well that shifts the argument a bit

I agree with you that his big obstacle is winning over some of HER support. I think he is not likely to win the nomination. Where we differ is on what we were talking about in these posts... what happens IF he wins the nomination, i.e. if he faces the Republicans. That's a different ball game, and that's where I think he's stronger (even if he's unlikely to get the opportunity). You're right, she's still standing, but with 55% unfavorables.

See also my posts #88 and #95, thanks.

[Indepatriot]

181. Just like the ripped Obama apart for being a communistsocialistmuslimeamericahater. And of course,

they'll be EXTRA NICE to HRC.....you've convinced me...THIRD WAY OR BUST!!!!!

[VanillaRhapsody]

187. they have NEVER been extra nice to Clinton

but she is still standing...and that is why they hate her....

Nice try...no cigar!

[Indepatriot]

224. She's still standing alright, both feet firmly planted on WALL STREET....

[VanillaRhapsody]

231. And soon both feet planted on Pennsyvannia Avenue!

[upaloopa]

28. That is one of the few things you all hang your hat on. He isn't going to ever be in the

general. And nobody knows this far out what voters will think when we are in the general.

[daleanime]

46. But you just say that you do....

I'm so confused.

[RoccoR5955]

55. You cannot expect me to believe that, do you? n/t

[Phlem]

149. Dude. They will say anything. Just like Republicans.

But you gotta understand, the Thirdway isn't getting any love!

[RoccoR5955]

175. I don't call it "Third Way,"

I call it "Turd Way," because it stinks like a steaming pile of bovine fecal matter!

[Phlem]

177. Even better my friend.

[VanillaRhapsody]

188. and who is this "Turd Way" you describe

because I smell something in this thread....and its not one of the candidates...

[VanillaRhapsody]

189. Why not.....

SHE has odds of 94%

What is there to doubt about it?

[Orrex]

38. That's largely because the GOP has completely ignored Sanders so far

They know that they'll be giving him free publicity if they pay any attention to him, so why would they waste the energy when it's far from clear that he'll even win the nomination? If he does make it onto the ticket, his lingering obscurity will hurt him and will allow the GOP to control as much of the narrative as possible.

At that point they'll unleash the full force of their attack machine, and despite his supporters' claims, it will be unlike anything Sanders has faced in his career to date. Clinton has long experience with this and has shown that she can shrug it off, but Sanders has never truly been in the GOP's crosshairs. It remains to be seen how he will handle himself in that environment, and I am not confident that he will portray himself favorably.

I know that his supporters believe that he'll be held aloft by the strength of the 99% to vanquish the GOP monster, but there is little to suggest that things will play out that way in reality.

[AgingAmerican]

73. Lol @ the 'Mighty GOP' and their nonsense talking points unleashed

When that's the best you got, you ain't got nothin'

[Orrex]

79. Keep telling yourself that, and you'll help elect the GOP candidate.

I will happily vote for Sanders if he makes it onto the ticket, but I've seen nothing--and I mean nothing--to suggest that this is likely. You're deluding yourself if you believe that he'll do well against the GOP's onslaught, when he can't even field a softball question from an NPR interviewer without looking like a cranky also-ran.

[AgingAmerican]

82. The meanie Republicans and their stupid talking points

have Hillary supporters shaking in their boots! Too funny! That's the lamest thing I have ever heard of a Democrat being fearful of. Goofball Rush Limbaugh talking points!

[Orrex]

100. I'm not fearful at all. I simply accept it as reality.

Do you believe that they'll have no way to attack him? Let me count the ways!

You can go on feeling your beloved candidate for as long as you like, but you'd better hope that he's more conscious of political reality than you are.

[AgingAmerican]

106. I don't see any reality in them whatsoever

And I will never fear nonsense.

[Orrex]

114. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the GOP of the past three or four decades

If it makes you feel better, then by all means, tell yourself that Sanders will win the nomination and coast into the Whitehouse on a landslide. It's simply foolish to dismiss unpleasant truths simply because you don't want to admit that they exist. I hope that Sanders isn't so short-sighted.

By the way, you come across as remarkably hostile for no real reason, rather like Sanders snapping at a softball question from an NPR commentator.

[Phlem]

150. You'll Get A Republican Elected!!!!!!

poor Thirdway, we have to do the scare tactics when nothing else works.

[Orrex]

157. Poor Sanders voter, sees every challenge as a threat

The most common mistake I see in Sanders' supporters on DU, aside from their propensity to attack anyone outside of the flock, is the insistence that Clinton supporters are devoted to her in the same way or with the same ferocity that Sanders' supporters are devoted to him. No one has circulated memes associated Clinton with the Messiah, for instance.

I support Clinton because she is the stronger candidate by every real measure that I have seen to date. I support her because Sanders has no real track record of dealing with the GOP attack machine--and in fact his supporters even dismiss the reality of that machine. I support Clinton because it seems much more likely that she would win in November 2016.

I do not share her entire vision, nor do I imagine her to be without flaws. I vote for her because neither Sanders nor his supporters--despite their overwhelming devotion--have persuaded me that their candidate is more realistically viable than she is.

But I'm no cultist, and I've neither sworn nor demanded any loyalty oaths. If Bernie lands on the ticket, I will happily vote for him. Sanders' supporters consistently label as a "Thirdwayer" (or some similar disparagement) anyone who doesn't support their beloved candidate. That is a simplicity of vision that betrays their own naive and cult-like thinking, enabling them to imagine themselves as the only special ones who really "get it."


Your childish insults do not impress and they do not persuade.

[Phlem]

162. Poor Hillary voter doesn't have a clue.

Last edited Wed Dec 16, 2015, 12:25 AM - Edit history (1)

Hillary is not change, it's more of the same. So Sorry for the Thirdway, but I will not participate in the destruction of the Democratic Party. I know you want me to, but nah. I hopes you don't feel bad, I'll cry with you, boo hoo.



It's not like I've been watching since before Bill, but you have all the answers automagically!!!

Call me all the names you want, I could give a flying fuck.

[Orrex]

163. Your hostility speaks volumes.

If Sanders lands on the ticket, you'll see the GOP finally take notice of him, and the criticisms that you now find so outrageously intolerable will seem like glowing endorsements by comparison to the GOP's attacks.

If Sanders asks for supporters to lead a charm offensive, do him a favor and don't volunteer.

[Phlem]

164. Ooooh I'm hostile.

Hows this,

Feel better.

Have a nice day! Hugs and kisses!!

[Orrex]

170. Please don't misunderstand me

Your hostility doesn't injure me in the slightest, so your attempt at mockery is as futile as your candidate's campaign.

But your hostility does reveal a great deal about the character of Sanders' cheerleaders. I wonder if The Change Candidate would endorse such behavior in those who presume to support him.

[Phlem]

171. Wow! the Blah....continues.

OK I got my popcorn.



Proceed to tell me how wrong I am.

[Orrex]

173. If you don't know how wrong you are by now, you'll never admit it.

I have a well-established record on DU of admitting my errors in thinking when they are shown to me. Can the same be said of you?

[Phlem]

176. "If you don't know how wrong you are by now, you'll never admit it."

Really!?! You don't say. That's some ironic blah.

[Orrex]

197. It's not my job to correct your failure to understand what irony is.

For Sanders' sake, I hope that you don't represent the best of his supporters.

[Phlem]

198. !

[Hiraeth]

218. automagically = good word

[truedelphi]

167. The GOP is only 24 to 26% of the American electorate.

Right now, the voting block of Americans that surpasses the membership of both "real" parties are those voters who are sick and tired of these weird candidates that keep being sprung on us.

So it is almost inconsequential as to who "63% of all Democratic voters" would support, and even worse, considerations for who it is that "63% of Republican voters would support."

63% of Democratic voters is around 23% of the electorate.

And 63% of Republican voters is about 16% of the American electorate.

[Orrex]

172. We shall see.

If I am wrong, then I will readily admit it. Can Sanders' supporters make the same promise? Or can they only imagine themselves to be correct?

[Juicy_Bellows]

199. I think you're level headed and make good points.

This Sanders supporter will happily pack up trunk and slide right outta here if Sanders doesn't get the nomination.

We both know that the GOP has a ridiculous amount of shit ready to drop on Hillary from 2008 that they never used and have been adding on to that pile ever since - we never saw what they had, they kept the powder dry. If she gets the nomination we are going to see some serious, serious shit. Most of it may be made of whole cloth but some of it is going to stick and that is why we are better off with Sanders. All they can give him is BS socialist this blather that they tried with Obama. I think, honestly, one must admit that the GOP has more dirt on Hillary than they do on Sanders by a large margin.

[Orrex]

201. That's probably true re: overall amount of dirt, but consider...

I'm not sure how much they've kept in reserve. The Benghazi gambit was rather plainly desperate, and one gets the sense that they thought it would be the killing blow. I would be surprised if they've managed to keep some bigger ultimate weapon under wraps to this point.

Sanders has a few weak spots beyond the bogus issues of "image" that I cited previously, not least his wife's somewhat dubious employment, which will be fair game if he hits the home stretch.

But to say that Sanders is better positioned to withstand GOP attacks on the basis that he hasn't had to face them before is like hoping that a runner will win a marathon because he's never raced against anyone before.

That's a leap of faith that I'm simply not able to make.

[Juicy_Bellows]

202. Fair enough.

However, consider this:

They run with the sniper fire clip - like all over the place - so many people have no idea about this gaffe. Is it trite? Sure, would it be effective? I would think so. That's public knowledge that first came to mind, there are other examples.

I also think that they have some dirt that they haven't used. Benghazi was just a bunch of hooey, ginned up by the little league. The wizards behind the curtain of the GOP have some heavy guns in waiting. A smart person wouldn't use their coup-de-grace prematurely - she didn't make it to the general in 2008, they sat on it. Never underestimate your enemies.

Sanders benefits from being pretty much an open book - does he have some targets? Sure, but HRC has got way too many - the party would be wise to make sure we don't 'float up a duck' so to speak.

I have my theories on why the party doesn't want Sanders anywhere near the nomination but that is a whole different enchilada.

Thanks for the civil discourse - it's kind of a rare thing lately.

[VanillaRhapsody]

191. You mean nonsense....

like not knowing the difference between Socialist Democrat and Democratic Socialist?

If this is the best you got.....well...you know...

[thesquanderer]

95. "Clinton has long experience with this" is the problem.

I think it is virtually impossible for the Republicans to do to Sanders in a matter of months as much damage as they have done to Clinton in 20+ years. The dislike many non-Dems have for HRC is visceral, deep-seated and long-lasting in a way that goes beyond what I think could be created in a single brief campaign.

Clinton has not entirely shown she can "shrug it off," either... if none of it sticks, she wouldn't have a 55% unfavorable rating. And now there will be a whole new bunch of attacks that she hasn't had to campaign against before as well... They will tie her as sec'y of state to the rise of Isis under the Obama administration's watch. And the email server. Foreign contributions to the Clinton foundation.

Neither of them are going to have an easy time of it. Clinton may have more experience in dealing with it, but Sanders gives them less ammunition and isn't starting from a point of 55% unfavorables.

[Orrex]

111. Again, I'm concerned that Sanders has no track record with this

And it would be a mistake to imagine that the GOP hasn't gone after him simply because they can't or won't.

"Socialist" is only the most obvious point of attack. They'll go after his age, his "liberal voting record," his geography, his flip-flop from Independent to nominal Democrat, his accent, his perceived hot-headedness, his lack of foreign policy experience, etc. And they will certainly imply that he's not a "real American" because he's Jewish, even if they don't state it explicitly in press releases.

That's just a few off the top of my head. Imagine what a billion-dollar propaganda team will come up with. Is Sanders prepared for that? I'm not so sure.

The dislike many non-Dems have for HRC is visceral, deep-seated and long-lasting in a way that goes beyond what I think could be created in a single brief campaign.

and

Sanders gives them less ammunition and isn't starting from a point of 55% unfavorables.

Just about everyone who dislikes Clinton dislikes her already, so this is a known factor. Sanders is still nearly anonymous: I have adult coworkers who, when asked, will reply that the Democratic race is between "Clinton and, wait, who's that other one?" This is still a real problem, admittedly made worse by the media's blackout on Sanders. If he goes from semi-anonymous to "visible only as the GOP portrays him," then they'll destroy him before the first Presidential debate, and he'll be playing catch-up with a psychotic GOP racist before the campaign even begins.


Let me state again that I will happily vote for Sanders if he winds up on the ticket, but I see no value in overstating his chances as some are doing.

[thesquanderer]

119. His relative anonymity is an *advantage* here

re: "Just about everyone who dislikes Clinton dislikes her already, so this is a known factor. Sanders is still nearly anonymous"

HRC has 55% unfav, 44% fav, and almost no one who doesn't have an opinion.
BS has 31% unfav, and the same 44% fav despite his anonymity. Unlike HRC, there are still 25% available to make up their mind. Realistically, no matter HOW that last 25% breaks, he ends up with better favorables and lower unfavorables than HRC, which is a nicer position to be in November.

(also please see post #88)

I agree with you, HRC will most likely be our candidate. But *if* Sanders managed to pull it off, as rough as the Republicans would make it on either one of them, I think he'd have the easier go at it in the general.

[wildeyed]

123. Agreed.

And he will be Republican roadkill a la Jimmy Carter if he did managed to get elected.

Hillary, on the other hand, knows how to brawl with those SOBs. Nothing in the world that she hasn't already seen from that side. She already bloodied them good with the Benghazi hearing.

[MannyGoldstein]

43. I only see the evidence I want to see.

Regards,

TWM

[daybranch]

49. You sure missed it. It is about restoring democracy

Bernie says he sees no reason we could not have free college etc., but as a democratic socialist he believes that such things are up to the people. He is not spending that much time selling free stuff as a reason to vote for him. His theme is fight the oligarchy and let the people decide what taxes should be etc.. I recognize that Bernie says we can do more for the people than Hillary does and he lays out plans to pay for it. Hillary offers, gets a pass from main stream media, and never explains how she would pay for the half way measures she supports.
Actually most democrats support Bernie on the economy and that is driving Hillary to repeat over and over I am a woman and I am strong on security. I have to agree she is a woman but I have no idea what she ever did to show she is strong on security. Could you illustrate?

[Dawgs]

62. Raising taxes on the rich for

Those things you think are so bad poll already poll in the 60's and 70's.

And, since when do we give a shit what the republicans would do or think?

Jesus people.

[Phlem]

148. Oh the Polls!

Good for Hillary, bad for Bernie no matter the figures. Poor third way supporter.

[pnwmom]

26. If he becomes the nominee, the GOP won't spare him from the same relentless

onslaught of mud they've subjected the Clintons and Obamas to.

So far being "ignored" has worked in his favor -- because getting too much attention will wake the snakes.

No one should delude themselves into thinking that Bernie is so pure they won't be able to attack him. The majority of the GOP firmly believes that Obama was born in Kenya.

By the time the GOP gets done with Bernie, the same idiots will believe he was born in Russia and is a Russian spy. After all, that's where he and Jane went for their honeymoon!

[wildeyed]

120. And empty political rhetoric

is not enough to win and election.

[Maedhros]

129. Then Hillary is doomed! [n/t]

[wildeyed]

130. Someone said it on the interwebs

so it must be true!

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Americans are sick of being fleeced

by oligarchs and their well-paid Republican/Third-Way help.

I'm confident that we'll wake up and choose to stop the carnage.

[upaloopa]

7. Hell the majority of Americans don't even know what an oligarch is. They care about terrorists

Last edited Tue Dec 15, 2015, 06:40 PM - Edit history (1)

right now and Bernie says turn that problem over to the people living in the Mid East.

He has no foreign policy because he has no foreign policy experience.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. How many Americans were killed by ISIS yesterday?

How many died from inability to afford medical care?

How many died early from poverty?

Use your head.

Perhaps it's time that you fought for better lives for people, instead of defending more slaughter in the Middle East that will just beget even more slaughter. ISIS came from the war that Clinton aided and abetted; all we got is millions of causalities, a big bill, and ISIS.

And you want more of this? You somehow denegrate Sanders, who accurately saw this awful outcome?

Wow. Just wow.

[davidpdx]

9. Said person doesn't know how to use their head

only to regurgitate talking points.

[upaloopa]

11. Wow just Wow? Americans put terrorism at the top of the list not me.

Don't even begin to tell me what I think! You can run around here collecting your kudos from others but not from me.


On edit: Claiming the moral high ground is just that, a claim.

[Proserpina]

12. Ahem, it's Kudos

thought you ought to know

[upaloopa]

15. thanks I'll make a correction

[merrily]

14. Yet, he made the right call on the Iraq War Resolution and the Afghanistan surge. Hillary did not.

And she still is making bad calls.

[upaloopa]

18. He didn't have anything to lose.

I don't agree with Hillary's IWR vote. We all were against the Iraq war on this board. I was here under a different name.

But one reason (and not an honorable one) why so many in Congress voted for the IWR was because they were afraid of losing their seats if they didn't vote for it. They should have voted against it because it meant people were going to die needlessly and lost their seat if that was the price to pay.

So no I don't think Hillary did the right thing voting for the IWR.


Bernie had no threat of losing his seat so voting against the IWR was not threatening to him. I am not saying that was his reasoning but it was true be risked nothing.


I am not voting for Hillary because she has a perfect record. None of us do. Bernie doesn't either. He is no saint. But Hillary is the most qualified person running for president in 2016.

She will win the general and she will be the first woman president. I expect she will get shit thrown at her like Obama is getting but she will do a good job and we will be better for it.

[Kentonio]

19. Wow, so a vote for unjust war is justified if you are at risk of not being elected?

Very telling...

[FloridaBlues]

39. Bernie funded all the wars.

[Kentonio]

50. Only a fool votes to not fund wars America is already fighting.

That would be absolutely despicable. Once the troops are on the ground, you support them completely or else you're putting American lives at needless risk.

[Phlem]

153. Yep.

Had that used on me the other day. It's fucking pathetic they don't get that, oh wait......They're supporting the Thirdway, now it all makes sense.

Poor Thirdway.

[floriduck]

166. As soon as Hill voted to start a

Quagmire war. Was Bernie supposed to withhold funds and let Hill's misguided decision kill our troops. Try to use your head at least occasionally.

[merrily]

37. Baloney. Having nothing to lose is not what drives Bernie or he would not have voted against DOMA.

And sending other people's children to be killed and maimed and causing all kinds of havoc in other countries because that MAY increase your own chances of re-election or of becoming is worse than despicable. So is using that as a justification.

[jeff47]

118. That doesn't apply to Clinton. >50% of New York residents opposed the Iraq war.

They NYC city council even passed a resolution opposing it.

Clinton was not at all in danger of losing her seat over a "no" vote. In fact, her constituents prefered a "no" vote.

[mahina]

132. Oh my God. That is chilling.

So sad.

[merrily]

138. Right?

[Motown_Johnny]

17. Better than having a Hawk like Hillary making decisions about foreign policy.

It really is a shame that Hillary got Iraq wrong when someone who has no foreign policy experience got it right.


I guess all his time in Congress is something that can just be ignored.

[A Simple Game]

35. People are scared of terrorists only because they are told to be. Truth be known

they are more terrified of going to the grocery store or the gas station, or seeing the landlord or a bill from the doctor or hospital in the mail, than they are of terrorists.

But sit in your nice pretty world and enjoy the view... Oh, and watch for those terrorists for us please.

When did we become a Country of wimps afraid of their own shadow?

[Phlem]

151. !

Brilliant!

I'll make sure to send the Thirdway some flowers.

[Fawke Em]

195. He does and here's the thing: he's been right about it.

Her? Not so much.

[Betty Karlson]

20. If he manages to win Iowa, or pull within a few points behind her,

he can win pretty much anything - including states that haven't been swing states in a long while.

[upaloopa]

21. He can't win because he can't broaden his base beyond what he has now

Seems like you all like to stick your heads in the sand about that.

[Betty Karlson]

23. And she can't win the general, because she won't broaden her base beyond 2014 Democratic

likely voters. And camp Weathervane sticks its collective head in the sand on that issue.

[pnwmom]

29. She only needs either the same coalition Bill had or Obama had.

Both of whom succeeded in getting southern and minority support.

She doesn't need to dip into gun-toting, NRA-member independents.

[Betty Karlson]

112. I was talking about the millennials.

Who are generally not gun-toting, not NRA members, and NOT a dependable voting constituency. When they show up, Democrats win big. When they don't, Republicans run the board by default.

But please, continue with voter models that pretend no-one was born after 1980.

[pnwmom]

113. Bernie can't win without the minority voters who voted for Obama and Bill. n/t

[Betty Karlson]

115. I'd call that an impasse, were it not for the fact

That Sanders' popularity among minorities goes up together with his name recognition while Clinton's popularity among millennials, goes down when her name recognition goes up.

If only Debbie and the coronation committee could get their collective heads out of the sand and allow some extra exposure for Sanders, we'd have an unrigged game where the best man or woman could win. Right now, we are rigging the game for a woman who may well lose us the GE.

[Samantha]

131. I believe you are correct

I read some time ago (here on DU) that Bernie has about 51 percent of the Independents voting for him. He also believes he will attract Republicans vote. It is also clear now that some African-Americans will be supporting him (I can't guess the percentage, but it is clear Hillary Clinton will not get 100%).

Bernie can win.

Sam

[nxylas]

33. Especially if Il Douche is the Republican nominee

As political narratives go, a Sanders vs Trump election would offer voters a clear choice between fascism and democracy. Whereas Trump vs Clinton allows Trump to paint himself as Asshole Jimmy Stewart - the plucky populist outsider battling the corrupt machine politician.

[cannabis_flower]

48. FWIW

I live in Texas and I'll admit it's one of the bluer parts, but I haven't seen many Hillary bumper stickers or yard signs - but I've seen lots of Bernie bumper stickers. I'm not so sure the South is so solid around Hillary.

[NorthCarolina]

94. Same here in NC.

Like you though we are in Charlotte area which trends a little bluer than much of the state save for Raleigh/Durham area which is also pretty blue.

[INdemo]

54. There again do you have the facts to back up that statement?

Please show us if you can.

[thesquanderer]

88. He can broaden his support

Last edited Tue Dec 15, 2015, 12:08 PM - Edit history (1)

In a sense he has that "advantage" because, unlike HRC, there are still many people who haven't heard of him or are not sufficiently familiar with him so as to have a strong opinion. That's what gives him the opportunity to broaden his support.

It's much easier to appeal to someone who hasn't made up their mind about you than it is to appeal to someone who has already decided they don't like you, and HRC already has 55% unfavorables, compared to Sanders' 31. (Both of them have 44% favorable.)

Even if those who don't have a firm opinion about Sanders break 3 to 1 against him, he still ends up with under 50% unfavorable (compared to HRC's 55% majority). Even if they ALL break against him (a ridiculous scenario), he still ends up with as many favorables as HRC. So he has a lot of room to broaden his support, she doesn't. Unlike Sanders, HRC has to count on a good number on voters liking the Republican candidate even less than they like her. Luckily, the Republican candidates are cooperating in that effort.

[mahina]

179. I completely disagree.

So many people don't know of him yet.

We'll see!

[pnwmom]

27. How can he win in South Carolina where he's currently almost 50 points behind,

or in the other Southern states? Obama easily carried those states because of his extremely strong support among minority voters. Bernie has never had their support -- but Hillary has.

[theislander]

78. Go check out how far behind Obama was from HRC at this point in South Carolina. Go on. I'll wait.

[pnwmom]

87. Obama was MUCH closer to Hillary than Bernie is. 26 points behind compared to 48.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/11/30/late-2007-obama-trailed-clinton-26-points-bernie-sanders-2016s-barack-obama

Before the Iowa Caucus in December of 2007, Pew Research reported that Barack Obama was 26 points behind Hillary Clinton. In the "Democratic Horse Race," Hillary Clinton enjoyed 48% support while Obama was stuck at 22%.

[Kalidurga]

30. Of course he is

And I am positive of this because there hasn't been a poll posted for like 4 days now.

[retrowire]

32. good observation. lol nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

67. Oh haha

[Betty Karlson]

116. Haha! Maybe the server switch was responsible for that.

But we can always hope.

[Gothmog]

31. And yet Predictwise has Sanders at 5% of being the nominee

This is a new low for Sanders on Predictwise http://www.predictwise.com/politics/2016DemNomination

[theislander]

81. I give very little credence to those "predictor" websites.

If it was something like Intrade, it would take a huge beating with these wrong numbers if they are simply following the polls.

[cantbeserious]

34. When We Stand Together - No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[merrily]

40. +1

[Amimnoch]

36. Well that's nice.

Good for him. Everyone should maintain a positive outlook on things!

[LWolf]

41. I sure as hell hope so. nt

[Vinca]

45. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

What I'm seeing on the ground isn't at all what I'm hearing on the television.

[ismnotwasm]

47. Good for Senator Sanders.

Fighting the good fight

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. In his dreams

maybe!

Otherwise it is EXTREMELY premature to say anything of the sort!

[Gamecock Lefty]

53. Iowa, New Hampshire - New Hampshire, Iowa

Ol Bernie doesn't have much of a national strategy, does he? Now I understand what "putting your eggs all in one basket" means!

[Kentonio]

66. Actually he has an extensive volunteer ground operation taking place all over the country

Iowa and New Hampshire are critical because they smash Hillary's image of invincibility. A win in either or both creates a huge tide of press attention for Bernie, and the organizations in the other states go into overdrive. His commitments to minimum wage, social security, racial equality, financial regulation and campaign finance reform are stronger than Hillary's versions. Her one trump card is that she is considered more electable. Remove that foundation and the structure collapses.

[theislander]

83. My state votes on March 1st, part of the Super Tuesday

Well, that victory that Clinton hopes to exists is simply NOT there.

Bernie has started canvass and caucus training about a month before Clinton just started hers two weeks ago.

I see no Hillary-related swag around here. Took a trip to Vegas a few weeks ago, and saw absolutely nothing related to Clinton.

[AzDar]

57. Bernie!!

[Sunlei]

85. Win or lose, we all and Mrs. Clinton need to hear Senator Sanders voice

America does need change and much faster positive only changes for about 80% of Americans.

[brooklynite]

97. Who's been silencing his voice?

[Godhumor]

86. This is an object lesson in trying to frame data to fit a narrative

Last edited Tue Dec 15, 2015, 10:46 AM - Edit history (1)

Polls have Sanders about 10 points ahead of his democratic opponent Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire and some polls indicating he is less than 10 points behind her in Iowa.
------

There is one poll that has Sanders ahead by ten in NH, not "polls". And even that poll has a +6 movement towards Clinton since the last time they polled. And in Iowa the two polls where he is in within ten, well, he is at -9. So technically less than ten but a meaningless division other than to make it seem like it's neck and neck in the state.

Framing is an interesting thing. If you want to write a story with a narrative in mind, well, you can make the facts fit it.

[theislander]

107. Here's a big clue for you: Clinton supporters are poll-driven. Sanders supporters are not.

We know we have the numbers that the polling companies aren't even reporting. All we have to say, "see you at the caucus" or "My vote is none of your business".

[Funtatlaguy]

91. Just imagine a Bernie vs Donald debate

Hillary vs Donald would also be fun.
But, I think Hillary would be more reserved than Bernie.
Bernie would say something like....how in the hell did this guy get here? Did the Republicans lose their minds?
For just purely entertainment value, it would be glorious.

[brooklynite]

96. Funny thing...

...I get dozens of calls a month from political candidates looking for support. They ALL say (if they're not already ahead) that they're on the verge of pulling off a major political upset.

Now, if Sanders would like to share his internal polling to back up that assertion, I'll be happy to study it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

105. Voters actually LIKE Bernie Sanders. HRH?

Not so much. You cannot win elections when 60% of the population thinks you're dishonest and untrustworthy. No President has ever been elected when 60% of the population didn't like them.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

211. Honesty and trustworthiness should be minimum qualifications for President!

That's why Hillary can't win. I put all my money, and my children's futures on Bernie!

[randome]

109. He's gonna be a huuuge winner!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[wildeyed]

125. An accurate headline would be:

Sanders Sees Narrow Path to Primary Victory

He would have to pull off a victory in Iowa and New Hampshire to even have a chance, based on his horrifically bad numbers in SC.

It is POSSIBLE, but not likely. He is outside the margin of error IA polls, and Hillary is inside his in NH. He is not "on the verge" of anything until the opposite is true.

And if he loses NH, it is completely over.

[Flying Squirrel]

135. He then destroyed his chances by adding, "Yeaaarrrgh!"

Seriously wish he would stop saying "at the end of the day" but it's ok, I love him anyway.

[Orsino]

137. A major political upset is the only way he'll win.

He's doing incredibly well so far, but he HAS to.

[SoapBox]

141. Go Bernie Go!

[99Forever]

142. He is.

[Phlem]

154. This thread is nothing but Thirdway FAIL.

The desperation is palpable. All's I can say is.......

Whaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[senz]

155. Okay, this could explain some of the current dynamics on DU.

I've been bewildered by the renewed hostility, swarming, and thread takeovers by a certain contingent. As I've said before, those who feel they're winning tend to be generous and grandiose toward their opposition, so the meanness hasn't made sense.

Well, this might explain it.

All I can say is, you will be better off if Bernie gets the nom and wins the GE. Everyone, except the few at the very top, will be better off -- and even they will still be just fine.

[Helen Borg]

160. Doesn't look good for Hillary!

I feel a bit sorry for her. It was her turn after all.

[WillyT]

182. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[SleeplessinSoCal]

190. if Bernie can get major Hillary backers to leave her for him, there may be an upset

Meanwhile he still has fringe backing.

[George II]

205. If he wins Iowa by a few points he'll get two or three more delegates than Clinton. If he wins NH.

The math isn't there.

He's way behind in a number of states worth more than a thousand delegates.

[ChiciB1]

210. I See This Has Become The Same Older VS Younger Voter

issue again! I'm a Boomer and I have Grand-kids who are millennials! WE all are voting for Bernie. I DO NOT buy the argument that older voters will vote for Hillary. I belong to a group that is made up of mostly 50+ and we're all Bernie supporters!

Why not wait and see what happens and go from there? I'm seeing many, many different age groups. If you support Bernie you will see it is so!

[brooklynite]

234. ...and needless to say, plenty of millennials will be supporting Clinton.

[billhicks76]

221. Clinton &Schultz Ruining The Party

And therefore the country.