2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNew CBS News New Hampshire poll -- Sanders CRUSHING at 56% to Clinton 42% for a 14% lead!
Link to CBS News December 2015 Battleground Tracker, New Hampshire.
saltpoint
(50,986 posts)many of those folks. Looks as if he's standing strong in the polling.
Them New Hampshire Democrats ain't skairt of no socialists.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)is playing an away game.
saltpoint
(50,986 posts)closer up thataway than they do in other parts of the country.
I like the energy Sanders is bringing to the national political discussion. His issues are essential to meaningful reform, and we know this because the establishment media downplay his role and clip his air time.
But that grassroots campaign in New Hampshire is humming along nicely. Jeb Bush, who would be welcome in any corporate boardroom in the nation, can't generate nearly the level of enthusiasm Sanders has.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Dem2
(8,168 posts)Oddly, this is only the 3rd largest Bernie lead out of 4 samples.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Dem2
(8,168 posts)*interesting* works for me
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)This campaign season has brought an onslaught of junky, anti-science polls that were absolutely laughable.
All you had to do is read through their self-reported methodology to see the glaring flaws. The Monmouth Poll that showed Clinton ahead in Iowa didn't poll anyone under the age of of 25. 69 percent of respondents were over the age of 45. It was a complete joke. First-time caucus goers were excluded, as well as Independents in Iowa who may cross over to vote for Bernie. Huge chunks of Bernie supporters that just vanished from the Iowa pool of those polled.
You have to wonder what is going on. Are pollsters lazy? Sloppy? Or is Hillary Clinton so lucky that all of these lazy, slopping flawed polls just happen to tilt heavily in her favor?
Another prong in her rigged approach that is falling down all around her.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)and New Hampshire, I think these bad polls can serve a good function. Sanders' performance in Iowa will be judged in large part on expectations. If the polls look tied on January 31, Sanders may need to win in order to beat expectations. If -- however -- the polling on January 31 shows a Clinton blowout in Iowa, Sanders may be able to beat expectations just by keeping it close.
The importance of expectations cannot be overstated. Remember that Hart in 1984 won New Hampshire based on momentum from a better-than-expected loss in Iowa, Harkin in 1992 collapsed in New Hampshire after a worse-than-expectations win in Iowa, and Buchanan in 1996 won New Hampshire based on momentum from a better-than-expected loss in Iowa. Often, beating expectations is more important than winning.
Every time I have to put up with a smug Clintonista gloating about some bullshit poll in Iowa, I just remind myself that we need them to boost the expectations for Clinton in order to get the maximum bounce out of Iowa.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Getting so confusing.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I think I will stick with Nate
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)a report card to show that the campaign is on track and progressing toward a goal.
If you have any other questions, just let me know and I'll try to help you through the issue.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)emulatorloo
(44,108 posts)I'm a retired photoshop jockey, so I know you are much smarter than me. But I'm not clear how a poll with such a high MOE can be an accurate report card?
I love hearing good news about Bernie's progress, but to me that kind of MOE means I have no clue about what Bernie's actual progress is.
Can you give your insight? Thanks!
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)The margin of error is related to the sample size and confidence interval. While the 95% confidence interval and sample size may seem to reflect high uncertainty (margin or error), the sample size is actually large in comparison to other similar polls. For example, the last month's worth of polls in Iowa contain the following sample sizes of likely voters (and, bear in mind, the CBS poll interviewed 1,252 voters registered in Iowa to identify 602 likely caucus goers):
602 LV.....CBS/YouGov
526 LV.....PPP (D)
727 LV.....Quinnipiac
357 LV.....FOX
501 LV.....Loras College
400 LV.....Des Moines Register/Bloomberg/Selzer
405 LV.....Monmouth University
442 LV.....CNN
As you can see, the CBS poll actually has a comparative generous sample size (i.e., it is the second largest sample size of the 8 Iowa Democratic likely voter polls taken over the last month).
The polling in New Hampshire is similar (CBS polled 1,091 voters registered in New Hampshire to 459 likely Democratic primary voters, and the sample size is the largest of the 4 contemporaneous likely voter polls from the last month in New Hampshire):
459 LV.....CBS/YouGov
410 LV.....Franklin Pierce/RKM/Boston Herald
369 LV.....CNN/UNH/WMUR
458 LV.....PPP (D)
If you lack confidence in the CBS poll, that is probably somewhat justified, but if you are putting significantly more confidence in any of the other polls, you might be putting too much confidence in those other polls. Ultimately, I put little faith in registered voter polls and, among the likely voter polls, I put slightly more confidence in live phone polls that include landlines and generous sample of cell phones, and I put the second most confidence in random selection large sample internet polls, and I put almost no confidence in self-selection internet polls or robo-call polls (I think methodology can be more important than sample size, as reflected -- for example -- in the better accuracy of the Des Moines Register's historic polling accuracy despite the fact that other less accurate pollsters use larger sample sizes).
emulatorloo
(44,108 posts)Thanks and have a great night!
I thought they were all invalid!
BlueCheese
(2,522 posts)... this is the CBS/YouGov poll that uses an Internet based methodology, and has been friendly to Sanders this whole time. It's actually a one-point improvement for Clinton since last time, which I take to mean a static race.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Last results showed Hillary with 50% and Bernie with 44%.
BlueCheese
(2,522 posts)According to RCP, the last CBS/YouGov poll had a 7 point Sanders lead, 52-45. He had a 15 point lead in October.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nh/new_hampshire_democratic_presidential_primary-3351.html
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)My mistake.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)The fact that Sanders has an 8.6% aggregate lead in New Hampshire at Real Clear Politics, but only a 4.3% aggregate lead in New Hampshire according to Pollster is due, in part, to the stricter methodology requirements imposed over at Real Clear Politics.
Nate Silver over at 538 discussed this phenomenon in connection with Trump's poll numbers (how he does better in poor methodology polls and does worse in polls that employ more accepted methods), and the same is true for Clinton's polling.
If you look at a graph of all the polls (the best, the good-but-flawed, and the crap), Sanders has an aggregate 4.3% lead:
If you focus on likely voters (drop the polls of all adults and polls of all registered voters), Sanders' aggregate lead grows to 4.9%:
If you drop the robo-call polls, which employ the most doubtful of methodologies, Sanders' aggregate lead grows again to 7.2%:
If you drop the pollsters who have not conducted at least 4 polls in New Hampshire (drop the one-off and infrequent pollsters), Sanders' aggregate lead grows to 8%:
If you narrow down to the live phone (landline and cell) polling of the most freuent pollster, Sanders' lead peaks at 10.6%:
And this 10.6% live phone polling lead for Sanders is bigger than the internet-polling 10.1% lead in the CBS News polls:
Contrast this with a graph that includes only robo-call polls, which give Clinton the lead in New Hampshire (and make the aggregation of polls look like a closer race than the more reliable polls suggest):
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)If it isn't too much trouble, would you please turn it into an OP of its own again?
peacebird
(14,195 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)They probably got wind of the results from contacts inside CBS late Thursday night, and went into full freakout mode.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)bwah!
Just had to see that again!
Vinca
(50,255 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)when those two views coincide.
brooklynite
(94,489 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)A poll can be used as a snapshot in time to assess whether a campaign is on the right track or the wrong track in terms of meeting its goals of getting its message across.
For example, if you look at current Iowa polling as conclude "Cruz will be the Republican nominee," you don't know how to use polling data; if you read that polling and conclude "Cruz will win the Iowa caucus," you again confirm that you don't know how to use polling data; but if you read that polling and conclude "Cruz seems to be on the right track and Carson seems to have peaked too early," then you are drawing the types of conclusions that can be validly inferred from the polling.
Why is this so complicated to you? Is it because you try to preemptively crown Your Highness based on national polling and everyone rightly concludes that only an idiot would read polling that way and so you resent when anyone uses polling data to draw any conclusions from it?
still_one
(92,116 posts)Two days ago the polls indicated a 2 point difference in NH.
I will reserve judgement until other polls come out confirming this or not
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)still_one
(92,116 posts)in the next few days
The same pollster said that Cruz has surpassed Trump in Iowa. I will wait for further confirmation on that one also
Regardless, the polls have been extremely volatile
grasswire
(50,130 posts)What's so encouraging to me is that so many of his backers are young people. Savvy young people who want HIS guidance for the world they will have to live in as young adults, raise their children in, etc.
His campaign is futuristic, not stuck in 1992.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)want a sign that a campaign is heading in the right direction, a favorable poll can serve that function.
If you want proof that one candidate or another has already won an election over a month before the first votes are cast, then you don't know how to use polling.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)of Bernie stickers and merch. NONE, literally NONE for Hillary... and only 1 Carson ( gah!) bumper sticker.
I think Bernie is winning over peeps that the Pollsters have no way of quantifying.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)He gets 25 percent of the Republican vote in Vermont. I think he will get an impressive percentage in Iowa from both Independents and Republicans. It will be very interesting.
Sam