2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"Why This Socialist Feminist is for Hillary"
The reason that electing someone like Fiorina wouldn't further feminist causes -- unlike Hillary -- is simple. Fiorina isn't a feminist. Hillary is and always has been.
http://www.thenation.com/article/why-this-socialist-feminist-is-for-hillary/
At first glance, youd likely guess that I would proudly don a Feel the Bern T-shirt and make a generous donation to the democratic socialist firing up the Democratic Party. Born to leftists themselves born to leftists, I am what is known in some circles as a red-diaper baby: progeny of left-wing activists, often but not always members of the Communist Party. I was raised by a mother deeply committed to social justice, an activist first and foremost in the civil-rights movement but later engaged with feminism, anti-war activism, and the vast panoply of progressive issues that ebbed and flowed through our national politics of the past half-century. My mothers immigrant Jewish parents met in the Lower East Side of New York City, at a meeting of the Young Peoples Socialist League (we called it YPSL) and I grew up more familiar with the words to labor anthems than The Star-Spangled Banner.
SNIP
Shattering glass ceilings can have broad and rippling consequences. The election of Obama did not usher in an era of post-racial accord. However, it brought to the surface the enduring power of racial animus and the equally enduring struggles against it. The Black Lives Matter movement, for example, may have come into being without his presidency, but surely the very fact of this man, with this history, with this body, with this skin in the (very, very) White House opens up space for discussions, debates, movements that are critically important. Obama took it upon himself to explicitly defend the work of Black Lives Matter and school the nation on police violence during an October White House forum on criminal justice where he insisted that its real and theres a history behind it and we have to take it seriously. His earlier comments, after the murder of Trayvon Martin, that this could have been me 35 years ago, may not have sparked the growing movement against racist police violence, but it surely did give it legitimacy and official voice.
This could happen with Hillary. No, the stalled revolution for gender equity wont be won by simply installing a woman in the White House. But it may help animate conversation, instill fierce female pride, and inspire young girls the world over. With our campuses roiled in debates about how to address rampant sexual assault and our reproductive lives seemingly constantly in need of controlling by over-reaching politicians; with our wages still unequal, our domestic labor undervalued and childcare still too expensive; and with our political representation still woefully disproportionate to our population, the effects of having a woman in that very male White House may just trigger some needed discussion and stir social movements.
Hillary may not be the (radical, intersectional) feminist that activists fantasize about seeing in power, but shes some kind of a feminist for sure and would no doubt foreground the centrality of gender equity to social justice in ways we have not seen at a national level. While Bernies redistributive economic policies mightin the long runaid women more than Hillarys more conservative ones, it is unlikely that most of them would ever make their way through a Congress beholden to Wall Street and corporate interests. And it is not at all clear to me that a gridlocked leftist vision would be better for women than the value-added of actually having a woman (with an agenda that shares much in common with this vision)after all these yearsin the Oval Office. Hillary in office will not usher in some profound realignment of US priorities and politics. But no mainstream, electable candidate is likely to do that in any case (see Obamas legacy on that if you have any doubts). But she just might help us remember that feminist is not an epithet but a badge of honor.
cali
(114,904 posts)Cheap clickbait.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)to her reasoning, but the article doesn't reflect that. Her argument is that we need a feminist woman president. The article would have been accurately titled if it read: Why this feminist supports Hillary.
This ain't rocket science.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Like the ones saying 'Why Bernie stinks!' or 'Why Hillary stinks!' or 'Why O'Malley stinks and has no chance!'
This original post and article, I actually read carefully and consider very interesting. It's one person's opinion, and may not jibe with yours or mine.
I guess what is or is not 'cheap clickbait' is in the mind of the readers.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)Did I miss something? Is there no one else at all running who has supported women and feminist causes for forty plus years?
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)but that's all she is.
And supporting feminist causes, as Bernie does, doesn't have the same "iconic value." If he had run against Obama, Bernie wouldn't have had the iconic value, either, even though he has marched with MLK.
Having a supporter in office just isn't the same as having a real live African American or a real live woman.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)which is utter nonsense. Especially if that woman (in this case both of the women named) aren't really feminists at heart.
Supporting a genuine living wage, ending the death penalty, ending -- or better yet not even starting -- senseless wars, real health care for all. Those things are the basis of what I consider feminism. I want a candidate who is with me on those things.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)because Fiorina opposes feminist causes.
Hillary is a strong feminist, whatever else you might claim about her. That cannot be in dispute.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)She is happy to bomb women and children in our senseless wars. She's just fine with sending children back to unsafe countries. Yep, that's a strong feminist.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)her policies are anything but. With the exception of choice, which I believe she only supports because it's "safe", none of her policies would benefit women, especially working class women and single heads of households. She's an oligarch and that is as misogynistic as it gets.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)You clearly don't know anything about her support for feminist causes.
From her website: hillaryclinton.com
Work to close the pay gap. Women earn less than men across our economyand women of color often lose out the most. Hillary will promote pay transparency across the economy and work to pass the Paycheck Fairness Acta bill she introduced as senatorto give women the tools they need to fight workplace discrimination.
Fight for paid family leave. No one should have to choose between keeping their job and taking care of a sick family member, and no parent should have to go back to work right after they welcome their newborn baby. A quarter of all women in America return to work within ten days of having a child because they have no paid leave. The United States is the only country in the developed world without guaranteed paid leave of any kind. That has to change.
Make quality, affordable childcare a reality for families. We need to recognize that quality, affordable child care is not a luxuryits a growth strategy. Women are now the primary or co-breadwinners in two-thirds of families with children. But out-of-pocket child care costs have soared by nearly 25 percent during the past decade. We need to make investing in child care a national priorityincluding supporting on-campus child care and scholarships to meet the needs of the nearly 5 million American college students who are also parents.
Increase the minimum wage. The current minimum wage isnt enough for Americans to meet their basic needs. Because women represent nearly two-thirds of all minimum wage workers, many women are living that reality every day. A higher minimum wage will help close the gender pay gap, lift millions of women out of poverty, and have a ripple effect across our economy. While we work to raise the federal minimum wage, Hillary will also support state and local efforts to go above the federal floor.
Defend and enhance Social Security. Hillary believes Social Security is an American success story. She is committed to defending it from Republican attacks and enhancing it to meet new realitiesespecially for women. The poverty rate among widowed and divorced women who are 65 years or older is nearly 70 percent higher than for the elderly population as a whole. This unacceptably high poverty rate is partly due to an unfair policy: Two-breadwinner families can face steep reductions in their benefits when a spouse dies. Its time to change that.
Protect womens health and reproductive rights. Womens personal health decisions should be made by a woman, her family, and her faith, with the counsel of her doctor. Hillary will stand up to Republican attempts to defund Planned Parenthood, which would restrict access to critical health care services, like cancer screenings, contraception, and safe, legal abortion. She will fight to protect the Affordable Care Act, which bans insurance companies from discriminating against women and guarantees 47 million women and counting access to preventive care.
You can also find her Senate voting record at ontheissues.org.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)Oh puh-lease. She talks a good game but she doesn't deliver. Her economic policies, anti-environtmental policies and her pro-hawk policies disproportionately hurt women and children, no matter what her web site claims.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)And ontheissues.org, which you ignored, lists her votes.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)Of course her web site claims she's all things to all people, except ITRL she serves only her corporate masters and concentration of wealth to the top 1%.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)of Hillary is that of a "Corporatist" as evidenced by her Corporate Board membership early on with WalMart, speeches for 100's of THOUSANDS at a pop for Goldman Sachs et al.
The thoughts conveyed in this post are not in any way compatible with the history of one Hillary Rodham Clinton. I'll take the honest, thoughtful old white guy who is younger physiologically than his MSM anointed "front runner" female counterpart.
ish of the hammer
(444 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)She cannot wait to take care of her friends.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...regulators appointed by Bernie Sanders or by Hillary Clinton?
That's the question which the section on Congressional legislative gridlock overlooks.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)Do you have any idea how many of Obama's nominees have been blocked?
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)I'm amazed when I hear that this would be bernie's vehicle for change. Bernie is liked by his Senate colleagues about as much as Cruz is by his fellow Senators. Bernie would not get much done.
zazen
(2,978 posts)Obama squandered the best opportunity we had had for addressing economic inequality in two generations. It's hard to get past that. He's a nice man and not stupid. But he too had a very limited vision of what we could accomplish.
I agree that we need a nationwide infrastructure of progressive Democrats, forwarding candidates at every level, so that we don't have one man representing an entire movement. That's always dangerous. Not that he isn't an amazing human being. But Sanders is just that--one human being. We need this now and going forward into the 2020s and 2030s.
But when elected, he will have enormous grassroots support, and he innately speaks truth to power. Constantly. That's what people support in him.
He will have to learn to bend, but I believe that his stubborn, fierce, unrelenting challenge to injustice where he sees it will translate into more accomplishments than Obama, even without a Congress behind him. However, I think Bernie's coat-tails will bring at least one of the bodies back over to the D side, and with strategic appointments--including some sitting Republican senators whom I know he respects--he can maneuver in those halls to split some very outdated coalitions.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)to overcome the filibuster. Whether or not any progressive legislation got through came down to the whims of the 60th vote, the independent, Joe Lieberman. Who was with us some of the time but not others. We don't have a public option now thanks to Joe Lieberman.
I agree with you that the make up of Congress will be key. No progressive President can go it alone.
zazen
(2,978 posts)I know for a fact that several sitting progressive congressional Dems felt strongly then and do now that he squandered the best opportunity to rein in the banks in two generations. They didn't have to do the major bailouts the way they did, and Geithner was terrible in running the homeowner's relief programs that they did have.
Obama could have followed more progressive economic advice when inaugurated and gotten Volcker and others appointed. Instead, he brought his banking friends in. Geithner undermined Dodd-Frank in its more aggressive, earlier iterations, aided by corporatist Dems sitting on the financial services committee. They undermined Elizabeth Warren's work at every turn and there ain't a lot of love lost there. Obama has had opportunities to bring in more aggressive people to investigate the banks and opted for folks who would "settle."
His appointments have made a big difference and he had the clout early on to at least not put neoliberal ideologues in charge, but he has every step of the way.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)pnwmom
(108,972 posts)than hers.
I was pointing out that both of them would be limited by Congress.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Nor is it even an argument in favor of your candidate... unless ypu want to argue that the Republicans are going to clear the way for her?
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT
stonecutter357
(12,694 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)I can understand why a self described socialist and feminist would vote for Hillary Clinton. For the reasons described in the article, it matters for people who consider these factors as especially critical at the presidential level at this point in our nation's history. Hillary not only would break down glass ceilings, she would be a powerful voice for feminism (both at symbolic levels and at real world policy levels).
I can also understand why a self described socialist and feminist would vote for Sanders or O'Malley, for reasons related to policy or for other reasons that are personal to each voter. It's a great testament to how far we've come that the epithets once used against a Hillary or a Carly Fiorina are used much less frequently now days than they were in the past. Few question them on their gender. They question them more on their policies.
I tend to gravitate toward optimistic people. People who have a sense that their words and actions matter both on a day to day level and in the long run as well. I think Hillary presents a very positive and optimistic vision, and I can understand why she appeals to many for that reason. The way she presents herself - in my humble opinion - is so different from the criticisms I've heard of her. Whenever I see her in a debate or on the public stage I see a very strong, positive person who is advocating for progressive policies in a compelling manner.
Significant work towards democratic socialist and feminist goals takes place in our personal lives and at local and state levels. That's where personal empowerment comes into play. I'm not going 'all in' toward one candidate this time around because I enjoy observing it more from a distance and because I'll support any of our three nominees, not only in the general election but also if they are elected to office.
From my observation, I think some of us tend to think of politics too much in terms of cheerleading or booing. I think it's more than that. It's how we live our lives. How we conduct ourselves publicly and privately. We have to try to change what we can change and also accept the limitations of changing potentially thousands or millions of people's minds merely through yelling or posting a lot on a message board. We're all more subtle and complex as individuals than that. We're more than just passive grandstanders, yelling 'vote for so and so!' on and on like Jehovah's Witnesses urging people read their literature. How we conduct ourselves personally, how we live our lives day to day, that also helps define us and helps shape those around us in a positive manner.
Thanks for sharing this article pnwmom. I found it very interesting. Hope you're enjoying a wonderful holidays!
BlueMTexpat
(15,365 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Happy holidays to you and yours, BlueMTexpat.
BlueMTexpat
(15,365 posts)SunSeeker
(51,545 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)I will not vote for Hillary because she's not a progressive or Socialist. Not because she's a woman.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I want to see all people treated equally and to use the profits capitalism creates to ameliorate social ills.
zazen
(2,978 posts)This implies once again that we can't pursue economic justice. That it is utterly impossible.
Guess what? The idea that the mainstream would come to believe that a man doesn't have a right to rape his wife was considered insane even 20 years ago. Or that I had a right not to be sexually harassed at work (where I was harassed constantly). Should we have just given up? Boys will be boys?
Obama didn't have to forgo economic populism once elected. Obama COULD have profoundly challenged the economic infrastructure in 2008. He had Congress, he had a nascent grassroots movement behind him (with much less of a widespread understanding of economic inequality at that point), and he had the capacity to appoint more forward-thinking economic advisers. Instead, he dumped Volcker and installed banking insiders, as well as Chicago cronies who were equally inept in other areas (like Arne Duncan in Education).
Am I glad an African American was elected POTUS? Of course. Was the symbolism more important than the wealth destruction of millions of families--the decimation of the African American middle-class--and the overwhelming financial consequences that have fallen, one could argue, most heavily on families and mothers of color with children to raise? NO.
This lifelong feminist who has worked in antipornography groups and with battered women and is too often accused (and on DU) of being a "second wave feminist" (shorthand for middle aged and out of touch) thinks Bernie Sanders' vision will by far help the most women (and minorities).
Feminism without economic justice, which is Hilary's demonstrable, lifelong policy--neoliberal feminism--is as hollow as it would be if it focused only on white or straight or first-world climate-privileged women. Sanders has the best track of record of working on all fronts. I don't care that he has a penis.
Pnwmom, I can't for the life of me comprehend how you're missing this, since I otherwise respect your views.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)Think about it, please?
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)zazen
(2,978 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)on both sides
TheBlackAdder
(28,179 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)Which actually has little rational basis, even after reading the opinion piece.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)because she's a feminist even though she is unlikely to do anything to further the feminist agenda, becasue being a feminist is a badge of honor?
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)and Bernie would,, too; but it's up to Congress how successful either will be.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)She takes several paragraphs to say the same thing.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)are Democrats she wouldn't vote for.
All we know is that she thinks it's a strong reason to vote for a woman as well-qualified as Hillary.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Which is fine, hey, that's an opinion. But it doesn't take a whole page of text to say.
It also doesn't mean the author would vote for ANY woman, but again, her whole argument for HRC is predicated on "she's a woman".
I happen to think we're overdue for a woman as POTUS, too. But it's not the only or even the main factor driving my primary considerations.
I also think the people -some of them seeming a bit over-identified with the whole deal- who have hung all this cultural expectation baggage on HRC (and I don't mean sending a message to girls "you can be president", that's great and again, overdue) are setting themselves up to be disappointed.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)I don't idolize Presidents, or candidates, or expect them to be perfect.
And I'm all too aware of how large an obstacle Congress is.
Also, I'm aware Hillary could usher in a wave of misogyny just as Obama brought a lot of underlying racism to the surface.
But we won't ever get past either racism or sexism if we pretend it isn't there.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)of course.
Honestly, if Obama has disappointed you, you're not going to be thrilled with Hillary, I suspect. The best that can be said for her is that she conceivably will maintain much of the Obama status quo, although I think it's quite likely she'll be worse in some areas, like giving the DOJ more of a green light to crack down on medical marijuana users, etc.
But most of the middle of the road stuff Obama has perpetuated, she will, too.
I actually think Obama has been far more quietly transformative than the only other 2 term Democratic President of my lifetime, whose decisions have not aged terribly well.
But the primaries are the time to push for what we want, to define who we are as a party. That's why I'm personally supporting Sanders, although if Hillary is the nominee I will of course support her next November.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)could, under the circumstances. He got the economy turned around, even though he couldn't get an optimal stimulus through Congress; still, it was effective. And soon there will be 20,000,000 more people with health insurance due to the ACA.
That doesn't mean I agree with every single act he's ever taken. But I wouldn't expect that with any President.
I agree, he has been "quietly transformative."
I also agree that I will support strongly support Hillary or Bernie or Martin -- whoever our nominee is in November.
And I won't expect perfection out of that President, so I'm unlikely to be greatly disappointed. I just want to keep the country moving in a leftward direction. I'm okay with slow but steady, because I think that is more likely to be long lasting.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)expectations---
whereas the Republican ones always exceed my worst fears as to how craptastic they could be.
Given that, I'll keep pulling the (D) lever, so to speak.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Stand on gun issues more than they do of the five time voting against the Brady Bill Sanders. More women have died in the US from gun violence and it continues.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)and not supporting the Brady Bill.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Candidate running.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)there is no low to which hillary supports will not sink to see to it that she is coronated.....
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)she does not support a living wage?
when she does support the machines exploiting the massive incarceration of brothers and sisters of color - legal or illegal and refugee families and little children?
when she supports the tpp and the threat it implies for american workers and their job security?
how can she be a feminist when poor and middle class families will continue to suffer fewer and fewer opportunities to afford food, a home, or higher education?
a true feminist does not only represent a woman's freedom from exploitation - but the same for all of her loved ones. if our brothers and sisters and children are suffering how can we be free women and prize feminism above all else when others continue to be exploited and suffer?
at least bernie sanders policies will support social justice for the entire family - which makes the importance of electing any woman simply because she is a woman - moot. look at what happened to brazil.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)i am neither mis-informed nor will i be betrayed.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)i am not misinformed. but go ahead and continue to persuade yourself. you interpret her actions and words one way and i another.
she worked to develop and contributed to the tpp plans/developments. she and dws support the private prison corporations. i suspect they are heavily invested in some way or the other. to me, she is insincere. her coronation at all costs, eh?
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)that it would work out. But it didn't, so she doesn't support the final version.
And no matter what you "suspect" based on things you think you heard, she has called for the end of private prisons.
www.hillaryclinton.com
ismnotwasm
(41,971 posts)K&R
Hillary's feminism is a diseased, elitist feminism. It's predicate in the rights of women to be exploited equally by the bourgeoisie; it's all dandy and women are getting ahead if they're being equally exploited in the labor market, by the oligarchs and by corporate interests. (As I snidely put it last year...Hillary's America is a place that values "choice" so that you can return to the factory line faster after your unintentional pregnancy problem and continue to wage-slave for the benefit of the oligarchy.) Any suggestion that Hillary actually embrace feminist issues that put her at-odds with corporate interests are quickly shouted down as being attacks on her personhood or because she's a woman. If anything, this is disqualificative of Hillary actually being much of a feminist at all.
More clearly, anybody supporting Hillary is by definition not a socialist, no matter how much they may think they're a socialist. Hillary is as radically anti-socialist concerns as any Republican.
pnwmom
(108,972 posts)They thought the women in the movement were there to serve them coffee.
No, thanks.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I also think the Obama coalition is the most self-actualized opposition to the right wing forces and will be effective again.