Hillarian Outrage on full display: "Oh Noes! Bernie's courting Trump supporters"

[99th_Monkey]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Spazito (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

Last edited Sun Dec 27, 2015, 07:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Hllarians are outraged that a 'socialist' candidate has the audacity to actually educate the
'little people' to start actually voting in their own best interests. Imagine that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=949930

How dare Sanders help defuse a racist blowhard's popularity among the 'little people' by
redirecting misplaced hatred away from racial minorities, and towards Wall Street crooks
and MIC war profiteers, where it rightfully belongs.

Just who does this Sanders guy think he is anyway? The next President or something?

[MisterP]

1. it practically writes itself, doesn't it? now he's a fundie warmonger on top of a racist manspreader

[roguevalley]

39. very sad day when we help perpetuate the idea that we can't come together. GO, BERNIE!

[cprise]

122. ONLY corporacrats are allowed to have crossover appeal

Gotta love the blatant hypocrisy.

They not only own any progressive who considers voting 3rd party, they've got doubting Republican market cornered, too. Their titles to said property are supposedly locked in a vault somewhere next to a pile of powdered wigs...

There's no chance that Republicans would get so sick of a party they probably inherited that they'd want to change their world view or affiliations. Of course, the um elephant in the room is the large pool of Independents who came from both major parties.

[MisterP]

137. and "crossover appeal" can only mean "copying GOP policies," not "convert Pub voters

to 1987 Dem policies"

see, all the different constituencies aren't supposed to meet and talk with one another: they're to think that they're the candidate's One and Only

each of them

[cprise]

144. Indeed. R voters are supposedly 'unchangeable' UNLESS

Third Wayers can get to them with their war plans, austerity and other founts of "credibility".

The horror that many of them feel at having to explicitly examine what used to be dog-whistle hints that could be easily ignored -- that is alienating more people than Repubs were counting on and getting them to re-exmine their outlook.

Its very fortunate we have Bernie to present a real alternative vision.

[Betty Karlson]

158. Cross-over appeal was supposed to be a one-way street: rightward traffic only! eom

[enid602]

206. schtick

Bernie just knows the type of people that are most likely to fall for his schtick.

[Betty Karlson]

207. Only supporters of triangulating candidates would confuse authenticity and schtick. eom

[lewebley3]

221. I have never trusted the Sanders campaign: He and is supporters are not

loyal Dems: I think they get some of the their money from the
GOP

[Android3.14]

223. We'll give that the thought it deserves

Moving on...

[joshcryer]

2. See sig.

Or spawn another dozen outrage threads adding fuel to the fire.

I'm out to canvass.

[99th_Monkey]

6. The misplaced ire of Hillary peeps at Bernie for redirecting RWers' misplaced ire to Wall St.

I think this is an important discussion, and all sides deserve equal & fair access to how it's framed.

[SCantiGOP]

25. You do know FDR died in office?

Thee was no law keeping him from running again other than the requirent that the candidate be alive.

[n2doc]

27. 22nd amendment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

and re-read the op.

[SCantiGOP]

31. I know that

And if you would bother to read the amendment you would see that there is nothing in it that would have prevented FDR from running again had he lived.

[Proserpina]

41. Is this germane to the discussion? Or does the desire to be pedantic overwhelm good sense?

pedantic


There's nothing wrong with focusing on the details, but someone who is pedantic makes a big display of knowing obscure facts and details.

Pedantic means "like a pedant," someone who's too concerned with literal accuracy or formality. It's a negative term that implies someone is showing off book learning or trivia, especially in a tiresome way. You don't want to go antique-shopping with a pedantic friend, who will use the opportunity to bore you with his in-depth knowledge of Chinese porcelain kitty-litter boxes.


Usage Example

"Readers responded: They found this arbitrary, arrogant, pedantic and just plain wrong."
Washington PostNov 9, 2015

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/pedantic

Since FDR was dead long before the 22nd Amendment became law, it's not only moot, it's irrelevant.

[daleanime]

111. Which is what the poster....

is desperately hoping we will be.

[Old Codger]

50. Wasn't passed

Until 1951 , well after he was dead

[Jim Lane]

116. It was in large part about FDR.

From the Wikipedia article about the Twenty-second Amendment:

Near the end of the 1944 campaign, Thomas Dewey announced support of an amendment that would limit future presidents to two terms. According to Dewey, "four terms, or sixteen years, is the most dangerous threat to our freedom ever proposed."[4] The Republican-controlled 80th Congress approved a twenty-second Amendment in March 1947....

This is why the Twenty-second Amendment has been referred to by historian William Leuchtenburg as "an act of posthumous revenge against Franklin Roosevelt."

Thus, the graphic included in the OP is taking a bit of artistic license but, in stressing FDR's enormous popularity, it is fundamentally sound. A pedant could rewrite the caption as: "The last time America had a democratic socialist as President... the two-term limit, which had previously been inviolate since the time of George Washington but only as a matter of custom and practice, proved inadequate, despite its established status, to prevent the aforementioned democratic socialist from a third and even fourth term, because the people loved him so much he kept getting re-elected over and over, with the result that a later Congress controlled by people who were fervently opposed to democratic socialism approved incorporating the term limit into the Constitution so that this wouldn't happen again."

It really doesn't sing that way, but there is admittedly a small gain in historical accuracy.

[Proserpina]

148. Acceptable

[FreakinDJ]

80. Its only misplaced ire because Hillary is actively courting Wall St

[Faux pas]

3. Kickin'

[djean111]

4. Someone called it "poaching votes" - whatever the hell that means.

Does a candidate feel that some votes just "belong" to them? Conversely, isn't ALL campaigning "poaching votes"?

[CharlotteVale]

11. That was a real WTF.

[sarge43]

13. They're just annoyed that The Chosen One didn't think of it first.

However, it's only a matter of time before the 'evolution' kicks in, then it'll be ok.

[artislife]

72. It doesn't matter, here crossover appeal is very low. nt

[Uncle Joe]

17. There seems to have been a "gentleman's" agreement between the Democratic and Republican

Parties in roughly dividing the nation whether it be by gender, race, religion, region, culture, just enough to prevent major progress from taking hold, meanwhile the mega-wealthy and uber-powerful string pullers laugh all the way to the bank and their corporate media mouthpieces insure the nation stays focused on fault lines instead of solutions.

[LuvNewcastle]

197. You got it.

[merrily]

204. It would seem that way, wouldn't it?

[sabrina 1]

226. Exactly and they are working hard now to stop the people from uniting, which actually is beginning

to happen as the people wake up and REALIZE what has been going on. That is scaring them to death. Bernie is a uniter, their worst nightmare.

[840high]

36. Better than pandering for votes.

[Proserpina]

53. I think it means "simmered in wine"

which might explain why someone would say that...

[senz]

92. "Simmered in whine?"

I could see that.

[Proserpina]

149. Or both

Reminds me: buy some wine for New Year's...

[JackRiddler]

105. It's projection of the Clintonian attitude isn't it?

All votes in D primaries belong to her, by divine right, so it's "poaching" to deprive her of these. Votes are property of the anointed, not for the voter to choose.

But when Sanders appeals to Trump voters (which is exactly what a nominee Clinton will do in the general election), the subconscious response is that he is poaching someone else's property!

The pre-conscious response is, oh no, some way must be found no matter how illogical to counter Sanders' totally legit and admirable move as a bad bad bad thing!!!!

[LuvNewcastle]

198. Her arrogance is astounding.

She is one of the original limousine liberals. Either she is going to be in shock when she loses, or the voters will be shocked when she wins the nomination despite losing their votes. I wouldn't be surprised by either.

[treestar]

5. The times are very different

The economy is not all that bad. Most believe it is good.

This was nearly 80 years ago. No, it was 80 years ago.

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. Very true. eom

[Jackilope]

140. See thread dedicated to this comment

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251950772#post17

[davidpdx]

174. Yes, the economy is not all that bad

But there are still many who are under employed and wages have remained low. That isn't President Obama's fault, it's the corporations who lobby for low wages in both the state legislatures and at the federal level. The corporations can do this because they have the money to and are allowed to.

Over the last 35 years the rich have gotten richer and the middle class has shrunk. I challenge you to go to Robert Reich's Facebook page and listen to some of what he has to say about the economy.

[LuvNewcastle]

199. The economy has been going along like

a spit ball rolling down the edge of a razor. Either it's going to fall off the edge, or the razor will slice it in two.

[davidpdx]

200. I've never heard saying before

Interesting.......

[Duval]

219. Go to Free Speech TV to hear about it. eom

[SusanaMontana41]

213. I've been laid off twice.

Six people depend on my wages.

The economy sucks. Numbers lie.

[MohRokTah]

7. One cannot be a Trump supporter and not be a racist.

This is factual. Support for Trump makes one a de facto racist.

I, for one, cannot respect anybody who would like to pick up support from racists.

[joshcryer]

15. They said that about Dean.

I didn't take it seriously then and don't now.

[MohRokTah]

22. Link?

OOPS, you can't because nobody ever said Dean supporters were racists.

[joshcryer]

33. Um, the Confederate flag gaffe.

You must be young.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

157. Still a little wet behind the ears, that one. nt

[cascadiance]

37. So are you saying we are racists now then though?...

Just because we want to appeal to those in the Republican party who feel Trump is their only choice for representing them when they lose their jobs, etc. to free trade deals and "guest worker" programs? Is concern over one's job being "racist"?

There are many hard core racists that support Trump ONLY for that reason. Those voters aren't who Bernie wants to address. He's wanting to appeal to those Republicans that have populist sentiments that the rest of us also have about how the wealthy are exploiting the rest of us. That is NOT a racist issue, no matter how much those who love corporatist candidates might want to depict it that way!

Bernie will appeal to them, because many of them don't really believe that Trump is trying to work for them as a rich guy speaking to those who want populist change, even if he's the only one of the Republicans trying to do so and not being pushed in different directions by OTHER PEOPLE's money!

[pangaia]

91. It's really a shame you actually have to explain this.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

43. A-yup

This is the nation FDR ruled over. All those Trump supporters were firm Democrats back in those days.


Simple electoral math proves that if you jettison moderates among the business community, you need to pick up votes among poor racist whites. And yet, the Sandersistas are absolutely floored that, for some "strange" reason, minorities aren't flocking to him.

It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Proserpina]

57. First time I've seen a prejudice labeled as a "fact"

in the last.....15 minutes.

prej·u·dice ˈprejədəs/

noun: prejudice; plural noun: prejudices

1. preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

"English prejudice against foreigners"

synonyms: preconceived idea, preconception, prejudgment

"male prejudices about women"
dislike, hostility, or unjust behavior deriving from unfounded opinions.

"accusations of racial prejudice"
synonyms: bigotry, bias, partisanship, partiality, intolerance, discrimination, unfairness, inequality; More

racism, casteism

"they are motivated by prejudice"

2. Law: harm or injury that results or may result from some action or judgment.

"prejudice resulting from delay in the institution of the proceedings"

synonyms: detriment, harm, damage, injury, hurt, loss

"without prejudice to the interests of others"

[Scootaloo]

70. So what about those Clinton-supporting friends of yours who favor Trump to Sanders...?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=916301

I know many people who support Hillary and they have declared to me today they don't care who the Republicans nominate, if Sanders is nominated they vote Republican because they'll never trust the White House to somebody like Sanders after this scandal.

[ish of the hammer]

99. not so

Trump's comments on our MidEast adventures and how much money and blood it costs us was completely devoid of ANY racism and right on.
Hitler made the trains run on time and that might have been good enough for some Germans, even tho some of those same trains were going to Auschwitz.
the republicans are AMERICANS. they need to be shown the error of their ways and be brought gently away from the dark side. Naming them your enemies is a great sound bite signifying nothing.
THE OLIGARCHY IS THE ENEMY and the Clintons represent them very ably.

[MohRokTah]

150. Yes, so.

Trump is blatantly racist thus only racists can support him, even if they refuse to admit they are racists. mythology.

Claiming there is an Oligarchy in the US is conspiracy theory woo mythology. It does not exist.

[Bluenorthwest]

153. Former President Jimmy Carter calls the US "n oligarchy with unlimited political bribery"

Former President Jimmy Carter had some harsh words to say about the current state of America's electoral process, calling the country "an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery"
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/jimmy-carter-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-with-unlimited-political-bribery-20150731


You should let Jimmy know how wrong he is.

[MohRokTah]

155. Proving even former presidents can be taken in by conspiracy theory woo. eom

[Bluenorthwest]

160. I think Jimmy Carter is an internationally trusted expert on fair and free elections so his views as

stated carry a great deal of weight . I'm sticking with President Carter on this one. Especially since you were unable to offer any counter argument and instead just insulted Jimmy Carter.

[MohRokTah]

161. He was still taken in by conspiracy theory woo.

Either that, or true to his political nature, he's using wild rhetoric to make a point rather than depending upon a truthful analysis.

Either way, there is no such thing as an Oligarchy in the US.

[ish of the hammer]

176. woo!

[merrily]

202. If only President Carter were as clued in as a DU poster! LOL!

[Scuba]

209. Lemme see, who should I trust? Jimmy Carter or MohRokTah?

[Duval]

217. Hey, I can answer that for you, but I'm sure you already know!

Good morning, Scuba.

[Duval]

218. MohRokTah, surely you jest! eom

[davidpdx]

165. Add former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich to the list as well

He is basically making the same arguments.

[JackRiddler]

108. Hmmmmm!

Guess what, it's an ugly truth, but if no racists vote for a presidential candidate, (s)he is a certain loser. The original Clinton campaign played on racism with the Sister Souljah moment and Clinton in power had no problem pushing through racist policies.

But there is a better way to deal with the overwhelming reality of racism. MLK also appealed to racists - he called on them to stop being racist. That is Sanders is doing here. Is Sanders appealing to racists as Trump does, by saying, "Oh good, be racist"? No, he is saying, "Stop being racist, it hurts you, and see what unites us all instead."

There's something wrong with that?

[Scuba]

208. Pleae cite a source to back up your "factual" comment.

[Broward]

8. Yeah, somehow pulling voters to the left is a bad thing.

A lot of people trolling on this site.

[99th_Monkey]

26. And apparently it's 'bad' to defuse racist hatred or actually educate the electorate

about how they're getting screwed-over & manipulated by the Billionaire Class.

[Ed Suspicious]

29. It's all a team game to them. I started buying into it

until recently my wife told me to remove the stick from my ass and start finding common cause with people like I used to.

[cascadiance]

38. Yep, basically REVERSING the "Reagan Democrats" equation many years ago...

where we try to help them prioritize the proper concerns about being exploited by the wealthy over the innate and differing racist or other bigoted sensibilities that perhaps all of us have at widely varying levels, as opposed to appealing to people on the reverse priority of those two train of thoughts.

[99th_Monkey]

44. Interesting observation re: reversing Reaganist residue. Thanks. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

45. Bernie is not "defusing racist hatred" ...

those racists/heterosexist/misogynists that trump is targeting, will continue to be racists/heterosexist/misogynists.

[kjones]

88. Shhhh

Uncle Bernie's snake oil cures all manner of boils, cysts, racysts, misogynists, and militant fundamentalism.

---

Am I saying he has bad ideas/dreams/goals? No. Do I think he's
overstating what his ideas can do and accomplish? Absolutely.

As an anthropologist/cultural/economics/humanities guy, I spend
my time in the department surrounded by self described Marxists,
socialists, and anarchists. And that's just cool, but what does
bug me is that for some reason, most of the people that fall into
these groups completely reject the idea that any problems exist
outside the bounds of money/economics. Just seems like methodological
tunnel vision to me...severe reductionism.

[1StrongBlackMan]

95. Agreed ... To the carpenter ...

all problems are nails, to be addressed with a hammer.

The difference between a Senator and a President is, not only the ability to multi-task; but, the interest, ability, and belief that doing so, is a job requirement.

[cascadiance]

101. So, how was his protests against segregation in his early years a "money/economics" issue?

About the same time that Hillary was a freshman Republican campaigning for Barry Goldwater, who was working AGAINST passage of the Civil Rights Act. Should we construe that her being involved with that was her wanting to just hang out with racists who were voting for Goldwater for that reason?

NO! I would never accuse Hillary of being an outright racist like many Republicans are. Sometimes her priorities aren't the way I'd like them to be, and she flip flops on them so that its hard to tell where her true sentiments are. But I wouldn't label her over some construed relationship as I just diagramed here.

I'd like to think that we can give the same respect to Bernie who's trying to reach across the aisle to many who support Trump NOT for his xenophobic and other bigoted tendencies, but because of his attempt to be about the sole candidate in that race trying to appeal to average people with a sense of populism that the other Republicans won't dare do at the risk of upsetting their kingmaker donors that Trump doesn't need.

Now, I do believe there are some Republicans that Trump appeals to that we don't want to try and be in the same room with. But I also believe that there are many there that want something good for average Americans, and being lower information voters, aren't seeing the bigger picture outside of Trump's message that Korporate Media is more inclined to feed them than anything about Bernie.

Another similar circumstances exist around many young Americans who find libertarians like Ron and Rand Paul appealing because of Libertarian's more publicized stances supporting rights on issues like privacy, drug use, and not being involved in other wars. And many of these young people don't see the bigger picture of what Libertarians also stand for that isn't talked about a lot that would take away a lot of their rights and wealth, and the ability of government to regulate the behavior of rich oligarchs. Those are voters we should try to appeal to as well, and let them know about those other issues that Democrats also support as well, even if many corporate Democrats don't talk as good on issues like the privacy, drug legalization, and war spending, etc. that Libertarians do now.

When we appeal to those looking at Libertarian candidates, we aren't wanting to adopt the other less talked about bad policies of Libertarians, but show where we have in common with the good policies they have and others that they might not be aware of that we also work better on too. In the case of Libertarians, the well known policies are the more appealing ones to progressives too. The opposite of course is the case with Trump, where the more well known policies are his social stances that are more bigoted. There's a reason for that reversal of which is more public too, as in both cases the less public issues are those that affect us all in terms of the elite powers over us.

We need to reverse the "Reagan Democrat" migration to Reagan in the 80's to come back to our party for the right reasons instead of becoming Republicans then for the wrong reasons.

[kjones]

135. So in summary

It sounds like you're saying that the defining characteristic of a "good" conservative to court and a "bad" conservative to court
is whether or not they'll vote for you/your candidate? Or that the only "line in the sand" you'll draw is on the topic of economics?
I don't know, I have more diverse concerns or something, apparently.
I've generally found that most libertarians are just republicans with one or two special interests ("I don't want to get in trouble for smoking pot" etc). The "liberty" in libertarian seems to often mean "liberty to impose myself on others" too. I think most of the libertarians I know and can actually stand are of the "college freshman/drugs are cool" variety, and they're pushing it.

Honestly, I really don't care if BS or HC wants to try to get their votes, that's between them and the individual voters (up until
it disrupts my reasons for voting for either), but to say it's some cool/rad/new/utopian/whatever idea is...well, dumb. It's just politics, and it just shows that Bernie plays the same game they all play. Hillary has staked out the center/center left/sizable chunk of left (the American left, which yes, I know, is not the same as European left...but we're not in Europe, are we...). So if Bernie wants to go for the similarities in the extremes (the horseshoe theory comes to mind), that's his business. I don't know what to expect from that though.
If the idea is to pull the country to the left (which is pretty much a central motive of the democratic party as a whole...yes, HC included), I don't know how well grabbing a string and yanking at both ends will work.
All I know is that I wouldn't want to include a lot of those ideas in my coalition. And whether or not BS wants those ideas to enter his coalition, they will if the people who hold them do. I'm skeptical of his prospects of striping off a significant number of those people anyway though.

I think Bernie would have run a fantastic campaign if he hadn't painted himself into an essentially single issue corner, because whether or not HE (and his closest supporters) believe that economics etc is the end all....the vast majority of the country doesn't. One campaign is not going to change that.

[cascadiance]

146. The DLC faction of Dems was built on the concept that wanted to appeal to economic conservatives...

... from the Republican party or independents. They saw that as the way to get people to come to the Democrats who cared more about social issue values and didn't feel that economic issues were as important to them so they would let the wealthy get "some of theirs" in exchange for having conservative and non-conservative Dems join forces to help us craft better social policy.

But the reality that's been given to us since Reagan's time is that the economic conservatives by having control over both parties is what is DESTROYING American's middle class and putting far more of us on to poverty lines. Just over Christmas I'm hearing of a local suicide note here in our community and separately my own family (what's left of it now) is divided when both of us have lost all of our inheritance from a parent we just lost and are either in poverty or very close to it after having lived a pretty good life earlier. Many other Americans I know are going through similar heavy struggles now too.

Though some Hillary supporters out there who may live better economically than the rest of us see the social issues that we all feel are important too (that are the ones the corporate controlled media "allow" to be discussed on their channels versus the verboten economic issues that their bosses don't want talked about), many of them don't see personally what is going on economically to almost everyone, Republicans, Democrats, and other parties as well without discrimination, and realize some big changes are needed so that we can get rid of this bipartisan oligarchic control that our system has been rigged by the oligarchs to become.

There are many of us here that find Trump disgusting, myself included. He does appeal to those that want to blame their problems on other convenient more bigoted reasons that fuel their self identity of being someone that believes control and hate make things better. But I think it misrepresents reality if you think that ALL of those followers of Trump fall in to that category. If you put yourself in a position of supporting Republicans for other reasons (family history, lack of information, etc.) and you feel frustrated that just about all candidates in their debates aren't addressing the issues that so many of us average people are dealing with now, Trump with his more populist rhetoric (as false as it may be and coupled with xenophobic crap as it is as well), appeals to you. If they are looking for a populist answer, and trying to find Trump as a solution, someone like Bernie stepping in and talking to them offers them a different choice for many populist stances that none of the Republicans really offer, and Hillary herself doesn't offer as much either.

Bernie can win them over I believe, and it isn't whether we measure them as "good" conservatives or "bad" conservatives, or even how they feel on the wealth of so many other issues. But if they prioritize the economic issues being resolved that hit them the hardest as they are hitting many Americans hardest, they will vote for someone like Bernie if he offers them the best choice to deal with these issues, even if they might disagree with him on other issues that many of us agree with him on. A chance to win the election on answering the most important issues of our time that the wealthy who control the system won't, and at the same time get someone who will also work hard on many of the social issues we also want resolved too.

It isn't a choice of either or (in terms of getting good social or economic issue resolution) with Bernie. He can give us both, and by answering the economic issues that so many people feel important but that the corrupt system won't deal with, we have answer that will give us all as Democrats the right solution we've been looking for for so long.

If some Republicans only like Trump's xenophobic notions and flip off Bernie since he's not that way, then I say we equally flip off them as the minority they deserve to be. We don't care about them, and they are a small enough group where they shouldn't matter.

[senz]

168. It depends on what the racism, etc. is based on.

If the racism, misogyny etc. is an attempt to explain one's own failures by blaming a scapegoat (as it often is), and those failures are caused by an inability to make ends meet, get ahead, or pursue life goals due to insufficient funds, then a more equitable, fair economy could relieve the underlying discomfort that sought a scapegoat.

[1StrongBlackMan]

171. Okay. No it won't; but, okay. n/t

[CharlotteVale]

9. Another day, another one of their memes that backfired.

[Dont call me Shirley]

10. Democratic Socialism and Democratic Workplaces need to become the norm!

[Uncle Joe]

12. Bernie is right in going after Trump supporters, the vast majority of which are part of the 99%,

they just don't know it.

Bernie is taking the highest road in enlightening the most people and the nation will follow.

Thanks for the thread, 99th_Monkey.

[99th_Monkey]

21. Socialist Bernie goes where no DNC-backed candidate dares to tread

This is exactly why Bernie runs so strong among GOP in Vermont (about 25% support him), and
why he runs stronger against every GOP candidate; is that he has this uncanny ability to talk to
his seeming "enemies" in a direct & honest way that defuses the anamosity and clears the air,
and it's damn refreshing to witness and be a part of.

you're welcome Uncle Joe, and thanks for weighing in on the FDR string.

[Uncle Joe]

23. I totally agree

and it's my pleasure, 99th_Monkey, peace to you.

[questionseverything]

32. true words you spoke there uncle joe

while a big bunch of trump supporters appear to be bigots, some of them are just low info voters that are feeling pain in their everyday lives and want someone to notice

the dnc is partly responsible for the trump surge by limiting debates and letting the repub debates suck up all the air before democrats even got started

[senz]

120. True and well said, Uncle Joe.

[Doctor_J]

14. She's pissed because she's already locked up the Bush supporters

The billionaires love them both

[Live and Learn]

16. It is amazing. I don't know whether to rec their OP's or just laugh at them.

Bernie is changing minds, oh no!!

[SunSeeker]

18. You know who'd be happy about Bernie taking Trump votes? Reince Preibus.

Reince has be telling Republicans to support Bernie:

http://nationalreport.net/gop-leader-republicans-donate-heavily-bernie-sanders/

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420262/republicans-should-help-bernie-sanders-weaken-hillary-myra-adams


And if it takes support away from Trump, it is a double win for Reince, who is freaking out over Trump winning the GOP nomination.

[seabeyond]

19. We do not like hearing a Democratic candidate call our issues, "wedge issues" and to put them

to the side, so we can all agree on the important issues of middle class $, in order to get the teabaggers vote.

[Live and Learn]

20. Apparently, some here think the Democratic party should be made exclusively of members

that they approve of and that group doesn't even include many of us on DU.

[redstateblues]

83. We don't need racists and homophobes

[Live and Learn]

84. Or you could try to change their minds like Bernie is. Teach them to put their anger where it truly

belongs on those that are responsible for keeping people down instead of on people that differ from us.

[Indepatriot]

215. Wasn't Hillary opposed to Marriage Equality until she only recently "evolved"? .. Homophobia 101....

[RandySF]

24. I just doubt it will work

At least, based on listening to my Trump-supporting cousin-in-law on Xmas Eve. *sigh*

[rhett o rick]

28. He isn't trying to convert the wacko's. There are a lot of Republicans that are just as dissatisfied

with the big money corruption as the progressives. The Conservative Wing of our Party embrace the corruption as long as it's their corruption. Sadly the 99% will suffer if the Oligarchy wins the WH.

[99th_Monkey]

30. Of course it won't work universally, but I really admire Bernie for standing up to Trump

calling out his lies, not just rhetorically, but by actually educating his supporters to see how
they're getting bamboozled by the Billionaire class into hating PoC, instead of Wall St. and
the MIC war profiteers.

A lot of Trumpers are just pissed and scared, mostly regarding their own financial instability,
and they need some one to blame and to vent their anger on. .

[Starry Messenger]

34. Well, it won't work, so I'm not really that worked up about it.

It's only Bernhards that think this had a remote chance of being a plausible strategy.

[99th_Monkey]

47. It's not like this is Bernie's "ONLY strategy" .. please. I think you know better.

We both know Team Bernie has a multi-pronged strategy, that is appealing to a wide
variety of voters, PoC, Millennials, Women, and so on. All Bernie's doing is including
this outreach in his quiver of many arrows.

[Starry Messenger]

55. I understand his strategy.

He has 38 days left, and his numbers for POC/women and others have barely budged. So he's back to plan a, hoping to appeal to white conservative voters. He's talked about this for years, so it's not some new idea he just had.

[99th_Monkey]

58. Going from 1% to 32% w/ AA's is "barely budged"? I don't think so.

:

[Starry Messenger]

61. When your opponent is maintaining 68%, um yes.

Otherwise he wouldn't need to pursue white conservative voters.

[99th_Monkey]

62. Bernie's been appealing to voters of all stripes from day one. See Liberty University. n/t

[Starry Messenger]

64. Yeah, I'm looking at it. We all are.

[1StrongBlackMan]

51. I don't understand the big deal is here ...

hasn't that been Bernie's audience from jump street?

[Starry Messenger]

63. I know that's who he's talked about a lot when he claims

the Obama coalition failed the working class, like we're chopped liver or something.


http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters

[1StrongBlackMan]

74. Yep ...

He has been saying this out the gate ... and actively pursued the path when it became clear he was not gaining(significant) traction among the African-American/Latino electorate.

Liberty University made his strategy plain and clear.

I don't fought him; however, you go where the votes might be.

[Starry Messenger]

81. I'm interested in watching this exercise play out.

There's a whole strain in the left for whom this strategy is the holy grail of elections. I have my theories for why it won't be effective, but am wondering if this will lead to a moment of self-awareness or not.

[Lordquinton]

112. No it hasn't

But keep saying it if it makes you feel better.

[1StrongBlackMan]

130. Really? ...

Why would my being left out, make me feel better?

You should not be basing your politics based on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing?

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters

What Bernie (and his supporters) seems incapable of understanding is ... how my family is doing is, largely, a function of my color.

[Bluenorthwest]

159. Republicans of low income vote Republican very often and espcially currently because

they are white and the Republicans are basically whites pandering to whites. I think this group would be the obvious group a Democratic candidate would be talking about, people whose interests are served by Democratic policy but who have twisted racial or religious ideas which cause them to vote Republican.
And they should not vote for Republicans because of the color of their skin. And they do. White people on assistance vote for Mitt Romney because, yeah, he's white. I mean, do you seriously think those poor whites who vote like that are doing the right thing? Bernie should not point out to them that this bigotry is harmful to themselves?
Because that's what he was doing.

[1StrongBlackMan]

167. I think you are reading more into what Bernie has been saying to these low income whites ...

that vote republican. Show me an instance where he has talked about their bigotry ... rather, he is asking that they, at best, put it aside (without speaking to it)/not think about it, and move to advance their economic interest.

[Lordquinton]

183. Really.

Are you upset that he's reaching out to all voters instead of exclusively you? How un-democratic of you.

[Blue_Adept]

35. A nice contrast to the Sanders supporters being outraged about champagne glasses

to celebrate the new year.

[Jack Rabbit]

40. It's better to court Trump voters than Banksters

Legs Dimon and Pretty Boy Lloyd may be beyond redemption, but Trump voters are just misinformed and somebody telling the truth can pick them up.

[Proserpina]

49. Until there's a vote, it is unfair (and unkind, not to mention self-defeating) to call anyone

a "Trump voter". Until the ballot is cast, we all have freedom of choice, still.

The electorate is in flux--people are starting to learn who is running and what they offer. If the first person who strikes a sympathetic note is Trump, that doesn't mean he's captured a voter.

And Bernie wouldn't be a suitable President if he didn't reach out to ALL the 99% and present to them, for their approval, his plan for the nation.

So let's stop being such absolutists and defeatists, and yes, bigots, okay?

(and I don't count you among those, JR. I know you are pukka!)

[99th_Monkey]

56. Very well said. Woot! n/t

[Proserpina]

59. Thank you!

[NCTraveler]

42. Yeah he is. Go get em Bern. Nt

[MeNMyVolt]

48. I support HRC and feel no "outrage" with SBS's remarks.

What's he supposed to say, "no, they suck" on national TV?

That said, I don't like giving any quarter to Trump supporters as they are a rabid bunch. Saying they have some type of justified anger, how ever misdirected, provides them cover.

Just hope the Sanders supporters remember some of this when HRC does something similar.

ETA: Your graphic is silly.

[chervilant]

52. Someone alerted on your OP.

I sat on the jury, but that's been about 35 minutes ago. I still don't have an email regarding the results.

Apparently, someone took issue with you calling HRC supporters "Hllarians."

One has to wonder...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

60. Me, too.

Still no results. Wonder why "Hillarians" is so much worse than "BernieBots"?

[99th_Monkey]

75. So it was the "Hillarian" thing that riled this alert? Wow

I couldn't tell that from the jury results posted, as the alerter's comment
weren't included, so thanks for that.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

65. The results are in:

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Dec 27, 2015, 04:09 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Looks like someone's safe space was violated.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why is this alerted on?
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Silly alert. Please don't waste our time with this kind of nonsense.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert? Really?
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerting on this? Really?

[chervilant]

69. Yes, I just got them, too:

On Sun Dec 27, 2015, 03:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Hllarian Outrage on full display: "Oh Noes! Bernie's courting Trump supporters"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251950477

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Hillarians? Really?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Dec 27, 2015, 04:09 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Looks like someone's safe space was violated.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why is this alerted on?
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Silly alert. Please don't waste our time with this kind of nonsense.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert? Really?
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerting on this? Really?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.


I was juror #7. I really like how everyone who voted to 'leave it alone' apparently agreed that this was a pointless and silly alert.

[FreakinDJ]

54. Those "Pesky Little People"

What do they know.

Better to let the 1% make their decisions for them

[postatomic]

66. I feel sorry for you. I really do

I don't have a problem with Democratic candidates courting Republican voters in the General Election, but Trump supporters are an entirely different breed.

Wall Street and Banks are places. Mexicans and Muslims are people. I'd love to hear how you re-direct anger from people to places.

Numerous experts pointed to some of Donald Trump’s statements as a recent example of Islamophobia going mainstream. Trump repeatedly has insisted that thousands of American Muslims in New Jersey celebrated, “dancing in the streets” on 9/11. He also suggested all Muslims be tracked by the federal government by having to have “special IDs” and said that he would consider shutting down mosques.

http://www.ibtimes.com/muslims-face-toxic-environment-wake-california-attacks-islamophobia-escalates-us-2210628

[99th_Monkey]

73. Your faux 'concern' is not very convincing

I suspect your real concern has more to do with Bernie having this uncanny ability to defuse
racist hatred, redirect that hatred to Wall St. where it belongs, and actually educate the electorate
about how they're getting screwed-over & manipulated by the Billionaire Class.

If I supported a Wall St. backed candidate, I'd be concerned too.

[postatomic]

78. "uncanny ability to defuse racist hatred"

Okay. Sure. By all means.... carry on.

[MrWendel]

67. What about Trumps...

policies are comparable to Bernie's? What is it about Trump that they love so much? And for that matter, what are trumps policies?

[A Simple Game]

110. Trump like Bernie is anti status quo. Many of his followers may not be racist but just

looking for an alternative to the establishment candidates. Makes perfect sense for Bernie to remind them they have another option besides Trump.

Hillary could try doing the same but after naming Republicans as her number 1 enemy it probably wouldn't do her much good. Never burn bridges Hillary. Well that and the fact she is the establishment status quo.

[99th_Monkey]

151. Exactly: "Many Trump followers may not be racist but just looking for an alternative...

...to the establishment candidates."

It's a fairly commonplace observation that MANY GOP voters this time around were:
A) pissed-off with Establishment politics & politicians (see Jeb!'s numbers),
B) caught flat-footed, sorry-ass alternatives coming out of the clown car (see Trump, Carson, Florina)

Many of these ^ pissed-off Republicans flocked to Trump because a) he can be entertaining in a weird
kind of way, b) the M$M keeps him on the Nooz 24/7 wall-to-wall, and c) who the hell else were
they going to support?

But trying to tell Hillarians any of this ^ stuff only seems to incite a riot in their psyche of half-baked
assertions based on faulty premises, or snarky one-liners.

[JoePhilly]

156. So they aren't racists, they just excuse Trump's racist comments.

ok.

[Indepatriot]

216. They must be "Hard working Americans, white Americans".....

[MrWendel]

184. What percentage...

of his followers do you think might be racist?

[senz]

164. Trump doesn't have policies.

Trump is playing a game.

[Gothmog]

68. I hope that Sanders devotes a ton of time to this effort

I would urge Sanders supporters to NOT attend Trump rallies and to try to convert these voters at these rallies. Attending a Trump rally would not be a safe thing to do. I am being serious here. The people attending Trump events scare me.

[99th_Monkey]

76. I totally agree with you re: Sanders not crashing a Trump rally.

I'm confident this is NOT part of 'the plan'. It's all about his messaging via social media
and news outlets would be my guess.

I wouldn't even want Bernie supporters trying it.

[Gothmog]

79. I was worried about the Sanders supporters trying to do this

We are all Democrats and I do not want to see any Democrat injured by trying to reason with Trump supporters at a trump event. Trump supporters are nuts and like to abuse people they disagree with. I urge Sanders supporters to leave trump people alone if they are in groups

[99th_Monkey]

106. Agreed, totally. Thanks for saying this, because some might have tried otherwise.

Peace

[RichVRichV]

177. Regardless of potential violence it would be a mistake.

All going to another candidates rally would do is make us adversaries and drive people away. If we're going to win people over it has to be done by delivering our candidate's message, not by shouting down the message of others. This has to be done via social media and small scale settings in a less adversarial way.

[JunkyardAngel83]

196. Yeah, Trump's Brownshirt rallies are fucking scary!

I saw a video where one protestor recounted what he overheard before a rally started. One Trump supporter said he wished he had a gun because he just wanted to shoot someone. I can't believe people actually bring their children to those hateful happenings. Someone is going to get seriously injured or killed by his rabid supporters.

[R B Garr]

71. Then quit bellyaching when Sanders is compared

to Trump. I remember the outrage here when Sanders was compared to Trump because they were both very fringey. Fringe for the Republicans being the Tea Baggers....

[JoePhilly]

77. You think he can find common ground with those insane racists?

Go for it.

[AgingAmerican]

86. On things like economic inequality, yes

Watch Bernie's speech to Liberty University and you will understand.

[R B Garr]

96. LOL, now you've confirmed what has been said

all along about social issues and Bernies priorities and what type of person is attracted to his campaign, but they got their posts hidden for speaking the truth.

Now that Trump supporters can benefit Sanders ....now they are embraced as some poor little misguided lambs who need to be brought in and sheltered and educated. The poor dears! Have you seen a Tump rally?? UGH.

At least we now see the phoniness of this mindset that rejects basic tenets and voting blocs of the Democratic party to embrace ex-Republican tea baggers. It's all falling apart. Good riddance!

[AgingAmerican]

97. You obviously didn't watch Bernie's speech at Liberty U

It's nice that you dusted off that rusty old talking point, but you cannot be expected to understand what I am talking about since you obviously can't bring yourself to watch that speech. All of your 'concerns' are addressed in the speech, AND that dusty old talking point is thoroughly debunked.

[R B Garr]

109. Oh, please. Who didn't watch it. Just more

phoniness.

Its just a shame that good Democrats got their posts hidden for explaining who is attracted to Bernie's campaign and why. Now their observations have come to pass with this current coddling of Trump tea baggers. Unbelievable.

[Number23]

119. Very interesting post and points

[JoePhilly]

115. So you'd welcome Trump's racists to join your movement?

ok.

[99th_Monkey]

87. A subset of Trumpers are mainly just pissed-off & scared, and hate Establishment politicians

Trump's incendiary racist rhetoric then appeals to this anger & fear, blaming PoC, enflaming
racist animosity .. Bernie appeals to this same underlying anger & fear, and redirects it to Wall St.
& the MIC war-profiteers, and gets them thinking til they realize who their REAL enemies are,
and it's NOT PoC.

Bernie's uncanny ability to speak honestly & directly to people who are his seeming 'enemies'
is why he can even imagine doing this. Personally I'm grateful that Bernie's actively defusing
racist hatred, and redirecting it to where it belongs.

But if I were backing a Wall St. darling candidate, I'd be concerned about this, true enough.

[JoePhilly]

114. So you think lots of Trump supporters are not actually racists ...

... they are just so scared, that they are willing to accept his racist rants.

ok.

[99th_Monkey]

132. Listen, we are all "racists" in a way, i.e. it's like a nasty virus

where most have z built-in immunity to keep it in check, learn to overcome it,
and choose to not feed it, ever. But there's a latent speck still there, that can be
stoked and enflamed given the right circumstances and/or atmosphere.

Think Germany pre-WWII.

Bernie's not going to appeal to hardcore KKK types, but will appeal to some Trumpers
who are simply pissed-off Republicans who hate Establishment politicians, and are
scared about their financial future, so need someone to blame for it. These are ripe
for the picking. We don't know how many, but it looks like we may be finding out
soon, as things unfold more.

[JoePhilly]

138. Ahhh ... so stupid racists who are too dumb to know who to blame ...

... for their shitty position in life.

In my experience, those folks can find the person most responsible for their shitty position in their own mirror.

[99th_Monkey]

145. The snark notwithstanding, your premise is faulty.

I question any premise that ALL Trump fans are a 100% homogenous block of hardcore
long-term KKK racists. Of course that is a significant subset, but no one (including you)
knows how large of a percentage fit that description.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, so please tell me if i am, as it will help us have a
more coherent conversation, if that's really what you want.

[JoePhilly]

147. You are missing something ...

... these non-KKK Trump supporters are still racists. Its just a softer racism.

They are, at a minimum, willing to overlook his racists comments. It does not bother them. In fact, they believe him when he blames their sorry state in life on minorities.

Bernie is not going to convince these fools, that their sad state in life is not the fault of minorities. These are not thinkers.

And for many of them, their sad status in life is of their own doing.

[99th_Monkey]

152. You are laying claim to perfect knowledge re: inner-workings of Trump fans' minds on 3 counts

You say:

They are, at a minimum, 1) willing to overlook his racists comments. It does 2) not bother them. In fact, 3) they believe him when he blames their sorry state in life on minorities.

AND you are assuming this to be true of 100% of them. I can accept this as your opinion or wild guess,
but not as somehow necessarily "true" in any sense.

I simply disagree with you, and have stated my reasons on about 20 posts under my OP, if you're at all interested.
But I suspect not.

[JoePhilly]

154. You have heard his racist comments, correct?

Or am I imagining those racist comments?

Or the racist comments of people claiming to support Trump ALL OVER THE INTERNET.

Trump supporters are, for whatever reason YOU like, IGNORING those comments.

Clearly, uou are much smarter than I am ... so why don't YOU explain why ANY Trump supporter would overlook his racist comments.

I can't wait to hear your defense of these folks.

[99th_Monkey]

170. There you go again, making sweeping baseless assumptions.

like this:

You have heard his racist comments, correct? Or am I imagining those racist comments? ...

I have never EVER said anything remotely like "Trump doesn't make racist comments", on DU or anywhere
else. If you can prove me wrong about this (with a link, not a snark) then get back to me.

Then there's this one:

ALL "Trump supporters are, for whatever reason YOU like, IGNORING those (racist) comments.... "Why don't YOU explain why ANY Trump supporter would overlook (Trump's) racist comments."

Really? What do you even mean by this? You lost me on that one. You'll need to clarify. Who ever
said 'all tRump supporters are IGNORING his racist comments"? Are you asserting that, or accusing me
of saying that? I'm confused on this one.

[JoePhilly]

172. I'll go slow for you.

Trump makes racist comments.

These are racist comments that any sane person would denounce.

All of Trump's supporters have heard his racist comments, and yet they do not stop supporting him.

And so, whether they are KKK level racists, or just ordinary run of the mill racists, I think we can agree, they are ALL racists of one type or another.

Now ... which of these racists do you think Bernie should reach out to?

Try to be specific.

Thanks.

[99th_Monkey]

179. It's not about "going slow", it's about baseless misleading assertions & assumptions

"Trump makes racist comments" <- no argument there.

"These are racist comments that any sane person would denounce" <- Yes. True enough.

"All of Trump's supporters have heard his racist comments," <- OK, Trump supporters no doubt have heard his racist comments. No argument there either.

But then you continue:
...and yet they do not stop supporting him <- HERE is where we start to part company.

In the context of this discussion -- an ONLY hours-old still ongoing conversation between Trump & Bernie -- the fact that these pissed-off GOP voters have not YET stopped supporting Trump means absolutely nothing.

This exchange is just getting started, and these pissed-off GOP voters are still very much at-will and fully capable of changing their minds as Trump's ECONOMIC platform of "lower wages", continued tax cuts & loopholes for the Billionaire Class melts, because Bernie is goading Trump into going on the record as favoring lower wages, cuts for the rich, etc.

Lastly you assert:
"I think we can agree, they are ALL racists of one type or another." <- No, we don't agree that just because someone is a Republican who's aware enough to know they're getting screwed by SOMEONE, but is not yet aware enough to know exactly WHO is doing their screwing, is somehow necessarily a "racist".

[JoePhilly]

180. So you think their racism is a temporary state ...

... Trump has been making racist statements for quite a while. Its not an "hours old" event.

But hey ... if you think you can reach them ... please, go for it.

[99th_Monkey]

182. I've said what I think, and stand by it. You've done likewise

perhaps this is where we agree to disagree.

Cheers

[MrWendel]

82. This is the equivalent...

to Candidate Obama attending KKK and Neo-nazi rallies trying to reason with attendees. Bernie's quote sounds flat out crazy.

[99th_Monkey]

100. Is this just a coincidence, or what?

Had you seen this OP yet, before posting yours?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118735373

[MrWendel]

185. Which...

"White America" does Trump represent. and if it's unachievable, then why make the effort to a delusional and fucked up faction of the population?

[99th_Monkey]

187. Fuck Trump. He doesn't 'represent' anyone except himself.

And he's a dangerous mob-connected egomaniac who has a compendium of Hitlers speeches as
his bedside reading.

Sanders is being exceedingly brave to start challenging Trump -- who btw is best-buddies with
the Clintons -- on real issues voters care about. The more Trump followers Bernie can reach, to
defuse & redirect Trumpsters' anger, the better.

[MrWendel]

188. So ...

aside from the deflection,



(Cute deflection by the way)

What Trump voters would Bernie be able to reach out to? They must have something in common if you think you can reach out to them right?

[99th_Monkey]

191. Yes, in fact they DO have something in common

they're mostly part of the 99% that's getting fucked over by the 1%, that same 1% that
both Trump and the Clintons belong to. Actually they are best buddies 'socially'. You didn't
know?

Attend each others weddings


Golf buddies

[MrWendel]

192. Your still deflecting...

posting pics of the Clintons and Trump and using the 99% talking points that you love to use doesn't explain what Bernie and Trump have in common. Yo sound very empathetic to Trump's supporters. Why? Or are you gonna hit me with more pictures, regurgitate more talking points and duck the question again?

[99th_Monkey]

193. You asked a question, and I gave my answer (which you didn't like) . boo hoo.

That's still my answer, like it or not.

The next time you try to bait someone with a silly question, you may want to make it
less obvious that's what your doing.

[MrWendel]

194. I asked...

what color is the sky? You response is "Look at this shiny object over here!"
If your response to a question is a stupid answer, then you said ALLOT more than you wanted to.

Thank you, I got alot out of all the ducking and hiding you were doing. You have no earthly idea how to answer the question because there is no logical answer to be made. I provided the paint, and then you're upset when you discovered you painted yourself into a corner.

"What can Bernie offer Trump? And what do they have in common to attract Trump voters?"

I didn't realize that was a Gotcha question, like asking Pailn what newspapers she reads. lol

[TheFarseer]

85. Trump supporters have legitimate concerns

And sadly their anger is misplaced for the most part. But let's not engage educate and attempt to redirect them. Let's just call them assholes. That should stop the hate.

[99th_Monkey]

93. +100 Exactly. The more hate the better for some, or so it seems sometimes. nt

[bowens43]

89. they know it's her last shot and they know she's going to lose, they're desperate.

[CoffeeCat]

90. Sanders totally outwitted and outfoxed the Clinton camp--and they can't stand it

Last edited Sun Dec 27, 2015, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Hillary had been playing cheap-shot, school-yard games with Trump.

The problem was, Clinton's engagement with Trump was a campaign strategy that she erroneously believed would score some points for her campaign

During the last debate, she ignored Sanders and O'Malley while pivoting all of her debate answers back to Trump, arguing with him in absentia. Clinton figured this would demean Sanders/O'Malley and make herself appear as the crowned Democratic nominee, sparing with the eventual Republican nominee.

All of this would have worked until Sanders totally outsmarted her. God, I love it!!!

In a brilliant move, Bernie Sanders announces that he would seek to win over Trump supporters who feel disaffected and disgusted by our current system that has failed the middle class.

In one fell swoop, Sanders made both Clinton and Trump look infantile. Furthermore, Sanders positioned himself a uniter with broad appeal and a serious strategist focused on bringing the country together.

Meanwhile, over at the junior high playground--Trump and Clinton appear petty and frankly, ridiculous.

The faux outrage from the Clinton camp is massive damage control in motion. Sanders turned Hillary's Trump tactics around--to make the Clinton camp look third-rate--while Sanders comes out looking like a real Presidential candidate with broad appeal.

The "racist" malarkey is a desperate ploy to spin Bernie's campaign gold into something it's not. Sanders played brilliant offense, and now Clinton is on the defensive and the more they squeal, "Bernie is appealing to racists" the sadder and more pathetic they look.

HA! Bernie you are brilliant!!! I love you more everyday!!

[99th_Monkey]

98. Very incisive observations.

From all indications, you are correct. Good Lord! I haven't seen a Hillarian swarm of faux
outrage like this since .... well ... maybe never.

[CoffeeCat]

124. They are scrambling and desperate

because they know that Sanders just owned them.

Big time.

Since they're not smart enough to take the loss and move on--they'll continue imploding and making bizarre allegations, failing to realize that they'll turn a minor loss into a Grand-Canyon-like loss for themselves and a bigger win for Sanders.

This is the part I love about living in Iowa. I got to see Hillary implode in 2008. When it's evident that another candidate is gaining on her, she tends to meltdown into a bizarre tornado of recklessness. Soon, the surrogates will enter Iowa and speak on the talk shows. They'll start attacking Sanders and engaging in Rovian politics. It will be ugly.

Iowans will reject it in a nuclear way.

No doubt, they're doing to double down on their stupidity and come up with some really nasty stuff.

I salute Bernie and his master move!!

[LWolf]

128. All the various efforts

at "damage control" have failed, and this one will, too. At this point, those "efforts" have become too obvious to be effective.

[stupidicus]

94. just more Hillarian hypocrisy/shortsightedness on shameless display

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_and_conservative_support_for_Barack_Obama_in_2008

[reACTIONary]

102. FDR was not a socialist - on their contrary, he...

...ran against and defeated four self proclaimed socialists. Bernie is a self proclamed socialist FDR was not. And if FDR had been he wouldn't have been elected in the first place.

[senz]

113. Well you can always hope, can't you?

Of course, this is 2015 and the Cold War has been over for a long, long time. No more "commie menace." Sorry.

Y'all hang on to that "socialist" label the same way rightwing fundamentalists hang on to the highly doubtful claim that Jesus ever actually said, "Go and sin no more."

It's like a lollipop that makes them feel better. So they cling to it.

[reACTIONary]

123. This isn't about me, or about the cold war, it's about ....

..... winning an election. Even atheiests poll higher than socialists. There are fewer people who would vote for a socialist than for an atheist...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/17/could-a-socialist-actually-be-elected-president/

Like it or not, the American electorate just isn't going to elect a socialist to be President.

[senz]

131. Does it scare you that Bernie's steadily gaining?

That he's attracted far larger crowds than the other candidates AND is rapidly gaining in the polls?

Perhaps you underestimate the American public.

Or perhaps you underestimate Senator Sanders.

Or perhaps you overestimate the power of labels.

[reACTIONary]

139. I'm not am emotional person, and I don't scare easy....

..... so no, I'm not bothered by sander's progress to this point. However, i don't support his policies and my assessment is that he won't win the primary, and would be a disaster in the general election.

One thing that puzzles me is why MO'M hasn't gotten more traction. He's a real democrat, not a democratic of convenience, he's to the left of hrc, and he does not have any negative idelological lables on his head.

[SunSeeker]

129. Exactly. Bernie's hero is Eugene Debs, not FDR.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/bernie-sanders-socialism-eugene-v-debs-213093

[orpupilofnature57]

103. Common sense would dictate making a plea to republicans, Hillary does business and deals with Trump

for years . Issues, anything but Issues !

[one_voice]

104. I will put here what I put in the thread...

you linked to...since you needed a thread all to yourself and were incapable of saying this there.

What I find most interesting about this..

is not that Sanders is trying to get non traditional voters, but rather his supporters defending Trump supporters coming to dinner under the guise that they're all fed up with wall street, poor, lost their job, etc.

I think it's great if you can bring someone over from the dark side. But where I have an issue is the people that are waiting with open arms for the racist, misogynistic, homophobic, bigoted assholes. But think Clinton supporters are the spawns of Satan. WTF is up with that?

Seriously defending bringing ass lint to the democratic party, but wanting to nothing but shit on Clinton and her supporters.

Seriously. Don't. Understand. That.

Trump supporters aren't wall street hatin' poor folk. They're people that hate, pure and simple. Trump has made it ok to say you hate people because of religion, race, even being poor. Go back and listen to him, he says minimum wage is too much.

these ain't poor people lookin' for a savior.

To be clear, I believe Sanders intentions are good.

[99th_Monkey]

125. OK. Let's talk.

"where I have an issue is the people that are waiting with open arms for the racist, misogynistic, homophobic, bigoted assholes. But think Clinton supporters are the spawns of Satan. WTF is up with that? "

"Trump supporters aren't wall street hatin' poor folk. They're people that hate, pure and simple. ... he says minimum wage is too much ... these ain't poor people lookin' for a savior."

Bernie's appeal will ONLY be heard & responded to positively by that segment of Trumpers who can actually hear it: i.e. those who ARE just plain pissed-off at Establishment politicians and/or who are feeling scared about how they're living paycheck-to-paycheck, with no health care, etc. and need SOMEONE to blame for it. Trump gives them that: i.e. People of Color are 'taking your jobs and raping your women .. blah blah."

The dyed-in-the-wool KKK types who have a deep seated long-standing hatred of PoC will not even hear Sanders, or not in a good way at least.

Trumpers are NOT a homogenous block who are all "the same", it's a wicked brew of discontent & animosity looking for a target. Some will hear and respond with some receptivity to Sanders, but it won't be the kkk types.

[one_voice]

141. You missed my point...

These people...

Bernie's appeal will ONLY be heard & responded to positively by that segment of Trumpers who can actually hear it: i.e. those who ARE just plain pissed-off at Establishment politicians and/or who are feeling scared about how they're living paycheck-to-paycheck, with no health care, etc. and need SOMEONE to blame for it

aren't supporting trump. they'd find him disgusting-decent people in general find him disgusting. Also anyone living paycheck to paycheck ain't looking to Donald billionaire Trump to help them.

I know at least 3 military conservatives that will have nothing to do with the republicans if they nominate Trump. They also told me that the ones in the military that support him are racist. They thought they knew those people **until** Trump came along. Next thing they knew their 'friends' turned out to be racist. Or worse didn't like poor people, they blamed them for being poor.

Haven't you seen the interviews with people that say he'll make the economy good and then they're asked about they racist stuff and the person will say well it's worth it to get the economy right. No it's not.

[dsc]

107. funny you use Roosevelt

He threw blacks and Japanese under the bus and ran over them a few times in the name of his economic agenda. Trump supporters won't support Bernie or anyone else for that matter, who doesn't do the same thing to Muslims.

[senz]

117. Here's the difference: Bernie sees the American people as people.

Hillary and Trump see the American people as lab mice/ guinea pigs.

Bernie talks to them as equals. Hill and Donald try to push their buttons.

People know the difference.

[MisterP]

118. poker chips--appeal to them one by one and cash 'em in

[MeNMyVolt]

127. Sorry, I see his supporters as apes and assholes.

Xenophobic, misogynistic, racist assholes. Wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

Fucking "equals". Really?

[Duval]

220. Very well said, senz!

[polichick]

121. Maybe HRC thought Trump would toss his voters to her when he folds...

What a drag when people choose for themselves!

[MeNMyVolt]

133. No deary, Sanders is going for them.

Everything is opposite-world with you folks.

[polichick]

134. deary??? Now I've heard everything. lol

[senz]

166. Wrong. Some of them are going for Sanders.

What you fail to understand is that people will often seek scapegoats when they can't make sense of their discomfort.

[MisterP]

142. ah yes, the Papen Maneuver

[Rosa Luxemburg]

163. Bernie will catch them when Trump falls

[Spitfire of ATJ]

126. Ah yes, the classic "guilt by association" attack....

It's worked so well in the past.

[Hoyt]

136. Just what we need, a bunch of ignorant racist, greedy warmongers. That's 98+%

of Trump's supporters. If Clifton said that, she'd be crucified.

[MeNMyVolt]

143. Clinton, Clinton. But totally agreee.

And the OP would be leading the charge.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

162. Since Trump will be dropping out. They will have somewhere to go!

To Trump supporters come on down!

[Lucky Luciano]

169. Add this one to the OP

Last edited Sun Dec 27, 2015, 10:14 PM - Edit history (1)

It is those blue collar supporters of trump that need to see and be swayed by this. If they are mad at Mexicans and Muslims then they are falling for the diversions of the demagogue.

[99th_Monkey]

173. Yes. THIS^ Bernie is uniquely loaded for bear on wages & income inequality.

With decades-long record of experience, standing up for the 'little people', and
this election is becoming a perfect storm to unveil the Oligarch's economic exploitation
and manipulation of working & poor people.

[raouldukelives]

205. Nice. Socialism for shareholders. Capitalism for me.

Oh well, they steal my environment and my democracy, may as well steal my wages as well.

[itsrobert]

175. It must be nice

To be all superior and paint all supporters of a particular candidate with the same broad bush.

[yardwork]

222. And know that one or two hosts will keep your OP open,

Ethics be damned.

[backscatter712]

178. The Swarm needs to come up with better talking points.

I think this one slipped past focus-group testing. Maybe they were in a rush.

[yuiyoshida]

181. K&R

Tweeted!

[beam me up scottie]

186. K&R for putting the poutrage du jour in perspective.

And for the FDR meme, I love the additional outrage it generated.

[99th_Monkey]

189. You're most welcome BMUS.

Thanks for the K&R.

Happy holidays & good new year cheer.

[beam me up scottie]

190. Cheers!

[Douglas Carpenter]

195. yeah, the Hillary brigade is really embarrassing itself on this one and undermining

their own credibility as serious political thinkers.

Obviously neither Bernie or anyone else is going to win over all or even the majority of Trump supporters - Of course not. But they could win over a good enough chunk of them to make a big difference. I'm frankly gobsmacked at just how lacking some of the Hillary supporters are in basic political common sense - or so driven by hate and prejudice themselves they cannot think straight. Of perhaps this is mostly just fake outrage.

Of course one should try to look for openings that might win over a certain number of Trump supporters. Does anyone seriously believe Hillary will not try and do that?

Not all Trump supporters are the same. Many have legitimate rage - but gravely misplaced and misdirected. I suggest people read Thomas Franks, "What's the Matter with Kansas?"

[merrily]

201. The horror of a Democratic Presidential candidate's trying to get Republican and Indie votes!11!11!

That happens only every Presidential election!!!111!!

But...how dare Sanders do that while proudly espousing traditional Democratic Party values? Sanders should try for Republican and Indie votes only the approved ways--by voting and talking like a neocon or "triangulating."

[Helen Borg]

203. You know, they did not model that!

Now they have to redo all their simulations!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

210. They don't want Dems appealing to racists....

Yet at the same time many say all white people are racists.

Racist or not, they still vote. Just like you can't simply write off black voters or Hispanic voters, you can't (yet) simply write off white voters and expect to win.

Clintons have been courting Republican voters ever since they got into politics. Clinton RAN her 2008 primary campaign USING racist dogwhistles. She pandered to their racism. But it's an outrage when Bernie likewise goes after likely racists, WITHOUT appealing to their racism?

[INdemo]

211. I wonder how many Hillary supporters "recommended" this OP?

[WillyT]

212. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[NurseJackie]

214. Amusement for me.

[malthaussen]

224. Hillarian rage aside...

... Trump is supported by the fringe lunatics of the GOP who are bigots, birthers, anti-vaxxers, and full of hair-trigger rage. The more sane members of the GOP have largely already fled to the Democratic party, which is one reason why there is so much bitterness between the two Primary camps. Does the Democratic Party want people who attack Sikhs because they think they're Muslims? Does anybody think it will be possible to enlighten such people?

-- Mal

[99th_Monkey]

225. You know as well as I do that Bernie's ONLY referring to those Trumpers who're being duped

into misdirecting their rage at all the wrong people i.e. PoC & Muslims; and NOT
to hard-core card carrying KKK types.

[Spazito]

227. Locking...

as per the Statement of Purpose for General Discussion: Primaries:

Disruptive meta-discussion is forbidden.