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Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:39 PM

If the Republican nominee promises change, and our nominee promises status quo, we lose.

Obama ran on the promise of change, and he won. Obama delivered on that promise early in his presidency, but since that early progress, there has not been as much change in the quality of life and equality of opportunity for most Americans as we all want. Now -- even more than in 2012 -- people desperately want change.

Look at the right-track/wrong-track polling:



Clinton is THE "establishment" candidate. Of all the candidates in both parties, she is the ONLY one who represents the continue-down-this-same-track status quo.

If we nominate Clinton, we lose.

Clinton is beloved among Democrats (except for younger Democrats, but her popularity with other demographics within the Democratic party may possibly be all she needs to win the primary), but we cannot pretend to believe that we win the general election with the "establishment" candidate who -- more than any other candidate -- promises to stay the course.

If we want change (and change for the better as Sanders offers and not change for the worse as Rubio, Cruz, and Trump threaten), and if we want to win the general election, Clinton supporters need to start thinking of a "Plan B" -- Clinton supporters need to start thinking of a "Plan Bernie."

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Reply If the Republican nominee promises change, and our nominee promises status quo, we lose. (Original post)
Attorney in Texas Dec 2015 OP
Dr Hobbitstein Dec 2015 #1
firebrand80 Dec 2015 #2
daleanime Dec 2015 #5
firebrand80 Dec 2015 #7
ybbor Dec 2015 #31
Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #3
FloridaBlues Dec 2015 #4
daleanime Dec 2015 #14
tecelote Dec 2015 #6
Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #9
tecelote Dec 2015 #11
Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #13
tecelote Dec 2015 #15
Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #16
tecelote Dec 2015 #19
Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #20
tecelote Dec 2015 #21
Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #22
tecelote Dec 2015 #23
firebrand80 Dec 2015 #8
Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #10
Squinch Dec 2015 #12
Ferd Berfel Dec 2015 #17
Robbins Dec 2015 #18
Juicy_Bellows Dec 2015 #25
libdem4life Dec 2015 #27
restorefreedom Dec 2015 #29
Dems to Win Dec 2015 #24
RandySF Dec 2015 #26
elleng Dec 2015 #28
restorefreedom Dec 2015 #30
BainsBane Dec 2015 #32
WillyT Dec 2015 #33
emulatorloo Dec 2015 #34
Attorney in Texas Dec 2015 #35

Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:42 PM

1. Cool story! nt

 

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:43 PM

2. The democratic nominee is likely to win, period

Because of demographics.

One thing that could cause us to lose is nominating a candidate so far left that he causes moderate Dems to cross over and vote for a center-right candidate.

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Response to firebrand80 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:52 PM

5. Cool story.....

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Response to daleanime (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:55 PM

7. Thanks bro nt

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Response to firebrand80 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:38 PM

31. This is the most ridiculous post I've seen in some time

Wow

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:47 PM

3. Yeah, we know. Bernie is the way, the truth, and the light.

 

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:52 PM

4. Yea the only politican that can save the world!!

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Response to FloridaBlues (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:14 PM

14. So we shouldn't even try?

Just surrender?


Not happening.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:54 PM

6. Yes. Let's hear it for Bernie!

Let's make Americans our priority instead of the Middle East.

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Response to tecelote (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:56 PM

9. ... Because we can think about just one thing at a time.

 

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:02 PM

11. Some people have issues that are more important than others. You don't?

Hillary said that we can not afford Bernie's proposals for a better America but we can afford regime change in the Middle East.

Bernie's proposals will kill thousands fewer people than Hillary's and it will improve the lives of millions.

You may not care but I do. Any moral person should care and should be outraged.

Another question for you, you're ok with all the killing?

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Response to tecelote (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:10 PM

13. Bullshit

 

Hillary said that we can not afford Bernie's proposals for a better America but we can afford regime change in the Middle East.


Link?

Don't bother. It doesn't exist.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:15 PM

15. Listen to the last debate.

Loud and clear for all to hear.

So, it does bother you. Good.

People need to be bothered and to care. Our wars are immoral.

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Response to tecelote (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:18 PM

16. Either quote her endorsing regime change or admit your error.

 

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:25 PM

19. Here you go... in her own words.

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Response to tecelote (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:26 PM

20. LOL! You lose.

 

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:30 PM

21. Not important enough to you, eh?

Your ignorance is allowing Hillary to take our country in the direction many Republicans love, profit despite the collateral damage created.
Go ahead and laugh. It's what they do. Who cares? Right?

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Response to tecelote (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:48 PM

22. No, I will not allow you to change the subject.

 

I asked you to specifically defend/support your claim, and you were incapable. Period.

This is not about me.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:59 PM

23. Why do I have to repeat myself?

It's right there in the debates. I assumed you watched but if you did not, I gave you a link.

I'll repeat the point.

Hillary believes regime change is important. You may be fine with killing innocent people to bring Democracy to their country but I believe we need to focus on America. Hillary said we can not afford Bernie's proposals. She is a craven and immoral to ignore the many lives that will be lost for her desire to topple other countries governments. Bernie is not perfect but he will improve the lives of millions and save the lives of tens of thousands of people by keeping Hillary away from the helm.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:56 PM

8. No one comes to FDR except through him nt

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Response to firebrand80 (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:57 PM

10. Ouch

 

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:08 PM

12. You guys are getting really silly.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:19 PM

17. That's another reason to vote for Bernie!

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:23 PM

18. I have said it before and i will say it again

GOP wants to run against clinton.they don't want to run against Bernie.

Bernie will be candiate of change.against him 2016 turns into battle of ideas which is last thing they want.

with Clinton as former first lady and former secretary of state she is laregly the staus quo candiate.Just being a woman isn't enough
to become the change candiate.

The republicans want to run as change candiate vs Clinton as candiate of establishment and stauts quo.

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Response to Robbins (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:07 PM

25. I couldn't agree more. +3

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Response to Robbins (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:16 PM

27. Oligarchs stick together. Then there is everybody else. Just replace the 1% with both the

 

word and concept of Oligarchy, and there you have it. It is a Special Club. You must earn/pay your way or be born into it. That's all we had until Bernie came along. Like someone earlier said, before it comes to pitchforks.

There is a new term...The American Terrorist. It's happening more than we think or know. I also think this may be why the Millenials are strongly pro-Bernie. They are not in The Club and aren't particularly liking their odds of getting a decent job, let alone joining The Club. That's what the Middle Class used to be and the historic nature of the concept. That anyone could raise themselves up by their bootstraps and get into the top. We now know that is sheer cow pies.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #27)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:22 PM

29. well done. nt

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:03 PM

24. I agree with this analysis nt

 

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:11 PM

26. So did Ronney. Look at what happened.

It's up to the nominee to spell out what kind of change the Republicans promise. Don't get tied up in General Election polls in Dec, 2015.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:16 PM

28. Right, and change via policies and plans is presented here:

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:27 PM

30. this is one of the best arguments

i have heard so far as to why hillary should NOT be the dem nom. the people are practically at pitchfork stage as a poster mentions above.

status quo, i.e., rubio, bush, christie, clinton are not the way forward. the younger ones know the oligarchy will give them no chance at a life.

the next pres will be

sanders
OM
cruz
trump
carson

thats pretty much it as non traditionals go except for fiorina who is going nowhere

unless ol jessie v decides to run....l.


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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:40 PM

32. No question the GOP will bring change

So if that's your sole criteria, have at it.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:40 PM

33. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

 


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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:46 PM

34. Republican "Change" = go back to the draconian policies of Reagan and W

But make them even more vile and destructive.

Democratic "Status-Quo" = both Bernie and HRC are embracing the best parts of Obama's legacy and building on and promising to progress and go even further. (I should say MOM as well.)

IMHO the eventual Republican nominee's claims of "Change" will NOT be able to survive the scrutiny he will receive after he wins the nomination.

I can tell you for certain, the moderate Republicans I know who voted Obama in '08 and '12 will not vote for any of those people in 2016. These people will vote for the democratic nominee.

I do want Bernie to be our nominee, but I beleive any of our candidates can beat the Republican based on policy positions alone.

Just a long involved way to say I don't agree with your premise. As always enjoy your thoughtful posts.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 12:51 AM

35. If it were a fair fight, I'd agree. If Clinton is nominated, I see Citizens United funding attacks

that reinforce the independents' and young Democrats' and potential cross-over Republicans' pre-existing lack of trust in Clinton plus the M$M casting Clinton as the status quo candidate and the Republican nominee as the change candidate.

Clinton could truly adopt the "candidate of change" mantle and change her fate, but there is not what her history suggests she will do (her history suggests she will tack left in the primary and tack right in the general election).

If the Republicans nominate Trump, we win with Sanders or Clinton (or O'Malley). If Republicans nominate Rubio, Sanders wins in an election of positive populist change for the 99% versus change tilted to benefit the 1%, but Clinton loses in a "future" versus "the past/present status quo" election.

I hope your optimism is well founded.

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