Can we stop with the "You are going to vote for her because she has ovaries?"

[boston bean]

OMFG..... She has ovaries... what would you like? that she have an oophorectomy?

The last 8 times I voted for president I voted for a man. And no one asked me if I was voting for him because... testicles..

[Agschmid]

1. Yes please.

[boston bean]

2. I assume you mean, that we please stop...

not that she have an oophorectomy....

[Agschmid]

3. Yes the first part...

[sufrommich]

4. Everyone knows that 200+ years of voting for

the white guy was just coincidence.

[boston bean]

7. I know, it's unbelievable. Women weren't even allowed to vote...

yet, this tripe gets thrown in the face of women for daring to support a woman.

[CorporatistNation]

89. To Vote For Someone ONLY Because They Are of A Certain Gender While Ignoring

significant qualitatively negative variances in trust, competence, integrity, judgement or character demonstrate an inherently myopic state of mind in the voter. Cognitive Dissonance would be another apt descriptor for this sort of behavior.

Review the history of the candidates according to meaningful descriptors, then if such findings are acceptable relative to your due diligence, then fine vote for the ovaries. Be honest with yourself. Be honest for your country. Compare the records of the candidates. Do not be an idiot lemming for the Corporatists. Ah, but that IS your right if you choose to do so.


I doubt that most Americans are adverse to having a woman President. The problem that I am hearing is that this particular woman just is not the one.

[daybranch]

121. I would be glad to support a woman

Warren comes to mind. Like I said i would be glad to support a woman, just not this one. You are not being criticised for suporting a woman just for supporting this one out of gender bias and cednig to her all the struggles she never really faced and assuming her competence because you know women have to work twice as hard etc. when we alll know Bill and a deal with Obama for his support got her to Secretary of State, where she seemed to enjoy the admiration of republican neocon men., who talk warmly about her competence.
Bernie like Hillary is owned by his donors. Fortunately his donors are us, not the oligarchy and their minions who support Hillary.

[jfern]

108. Everyone knows that 200+ years of voting for the Christian was just coincidence

[MohRokTah]

5. The deal is, even if that's the only reason somebody is voting for Hillary Clinton...

that's their friggin' right. They can vote for whomsoever they want for whatever reason they want.

That's the beauty of a Democratic Republic!

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

41. This should be the OP: "Even if that's the only reason somebody is voting for Hillary Clinton"

[MohRokTah]

96. Just like, even if it's the only reason somebody is voting for Sanders the fact that he has a penis"

that's still their right. They have every right to do so.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

97. You're better at this than the OP

I would have passed on this thread if the OP wasn't so ridiculous.

"The last 8 times I voted for president I voted for a man. And no one asked me if I was voting for him because... testicles.. "

[Tipperary]

6. I have to say I am very glad that no one has ever said that to me.

I cannot even imagine my response.

[1StrongBlackMan]

8. Welcome to the world of societal default ...

A Black person supporting a Black candidate/president ... it's because, Black; a white person supporting a white candidate/president ... it's because of studied reason.

A female supporting a female candidate ... it's because, female; a male supporting a male candidate ... it's because of studied reason.

The societal default is invisible to everyone (most) except to those NOT of that default. The is a sociological term for that {ETA:}... one that is resisted, even among "liberals".

[Empowerer]

94. Nailed it

[leftofcool]

105. Nailed it again

[mcar]

112. This

The contrast cannot be argued and has been noted many times on this board. Thank you 1SBM and Happy New Year!

[lovemydog]

123. +1

[Scuba]

9. Seems unlikely considering ...

[thesquanderer]

122. Is there any female HRC supporter who doesn't care that Hillary is a woman?

The women I know who are supporting Hillary invariably mention her being a woman as a reason they support her. Of course this doesn't mean it's the *only* reason they support her, nor does it mean they would vote for *any* woman (they wouldn't vote for Fiorina or Palin, for example), but it is enough of a factor that it is always mentioned. I'd be curious to know whether others here have found differently. Have you ever spoken to a female HRC supporter who did not mention her gender as part of the reason they support her?

[DCBob]

10. I don't really think much about her being a woman.

I just think she is the best, most qualified person for the job among all the candidates we have right now.. no matter the gender, color, religion, etc. However, it is cool that she is going to be our first woman president!

[NurseJackie]

16. +1

[Thinkingabout]

11. And when she kicks their butts and uses her talents as president

Maybe this crap will go to sleep with Rip Van Wrinkle.

[vi5]

12. But what if it's the only reason I'm voting for her.

It would be. I hate a good chunk of her positions, and the ones that I don't hate I don't believe for a single minute that she would really go to the mat for them if push came to shove and political expediency or her own political interests were truly at stake. I hate everything she represents, not as a woman or a Democrat or anything other than the finest example of craven politics over all else, at every single turn in her career.

But if she is the nominee the only reason I'll vote for her is because I want my daughter to see a woman president in her lifetime. Which kills me because I don't want Hillary Clinton to be her role model for anything. But I would never be able to look her in the eye and say that the first chance I had to vote for a Democratic woman president that I didn't do it.

[boston bean]

13. We are discussing a derogatory statement that doesn't get applied to male candidates.

You can absolutely vote for her for any reason you would like.

One of the reasons as well I will vote for her, is I think it would be very historic to have a female president.

That doesn't mean that people should be using that reasoning in a negative fashion against the a female voter.

We women were never questioned throughout history if we were voting for testicles, even though for a very long time we HAD NO choice but to vote for someone who had them.

The whole thing, just makes me want to vomit, the way people try to frame these issues and the framing is sexist as hell.

[sufrommich]

14. The ones that get me are the comments questioning

whether democratic Hillary supporters would vote for Carly Fiorino if she got the GOP nomination.It's like asking African American democrats if they would switch their votes to Ben Carson or democratic Hispanic people if they'll vote for Ted Cruz.It's insulting and demeaning to assume every group other than white men are incapable of voting "correctly".

[boston bean]

15. Yep. Woman and everyone else is incapable of reasoning and determining

the best choice for them.

Only those who voted prior for what we have had for centuries and continue to do so are the mature reasoned persons capable of knowing what is best for us all.

Truly, this meme is so inherently sexist, I find it unacceptable for a "democratic" website. But I don't own the place... But if I did, I'd be hanging my head in shame in seeing some of this crap posted.

[Iliyah]

56. Well look at the country overall. Woman do not have the right to make her

own decision about her own body.

[Warren Stupidity]

77. My wife is voting the same way.

She dislikes most of her policy positions, prefers Sanders on all issues except guns, but is going to vote for Clinton in the primary because she really wants a woman to be president. I'm fine with that.

[vi5]

103. Not me.

I have a visceral dislike for what her cadre of staffers and advisors and everyone else she has surrounded herself has done for politics. I would never in a million years vote for her in the primary. Hell I'd probably vote for O'Malley over her.

But I'll hold my nose in the GE, unless before then she does some majorly awful stuff in the name of pandering and her endless quest for power, which given her history is a distinct possibility.

[PyaarRevolution]

17. I don't think most are exclusively supporting because she's a woman but....

I think there are some that do just like I think the same thing happened in terms of voting for Barrack Obama. You'll note I didn't say it was most people.
Now, clearing that up I remember watching one of the debates when she was asked how she was different than Obama she responded "I'm a woman" and I was utterly disgusted. From someone who has been very angry on how Obama treats our privacy and other issues like Free Trade to name a few(this was from one of the earlier debates), that was one of the worst things she could've said. That is like saying "Judge me not by the content of my character but by my gender".
That being said, while it would be a positive voting for Hillary in general election, it would be one of the few positives in voting for her. Yes she does definitely overlap with Bernie on some issues but on some very important ones she does not or her solutions are watered down counterparts. Debt free college is NOT the same as tuition free college.
Now looking at Bernie and his stance on many issues add to that, in the same breath of Hillary being a woman, he'll be the first non-Christian president. I feel in some respects that is equally as important as having our first woman president. That it still seems now to get voted in for President you have to identify as a Christian is ridiculous.

[A Simple Game]

18. 17 replies and still not one reason to vote for her other than that she is a woman. Interesting. n/t

[fasttense]

59. Exactly

I would love to vote for her because of her ovaries. If she and Bernie were similar in policy positions, she would be my 1st choice.

Unfortunately she's supported by our current oligarchy, especially the banksters. And the behavior of Hillary supporters ensures I wont vote for her even if Bernie losses the primaries.

I had every intention of voting even if Bernie loses but I can no longer stomach the lesser of 2 evils.

[A Simple Game]

113. I know exactly how you feel, I will never again vote for a war monger, never.

I need go no further in my selection process for a Presidential candidate, but if I had to she would fail on several other criteria also.

[George II]

19. As the French would say, "an œuf is enough"!

[baldguy]

20. "But...but...I can't be sexist, demeaning & condescending! I'm a progressive Bernie supporter!"

And yet we see it every day...

[Fawke Em]

120. Yet, I'm a female Bernie supporter and I see far more demeaning and

condescending crap from the Hillary supporters.

[ismnotwasm]

21. Yeah that disgusting disingenuous crap

Easy to see right through it.

[Orrex]

22. Wait--she has ovaries? THE DEAL'S OFF! SANDERS 2016!

[lobodons]

23. Nothing wrong with Democratic Party Ovaries!!

Whatever your issue is, let's just make sure a Democrat is elected!!

[Motown_Johnny]

24. Because the men did not run on them being men.

Hillary is running on being a woman. That makes it a reasonable part of the discussion.

If this is a problem for you, blame her.




http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/20/hillary_clinton_i_cannot_imagine_anyone_being_more_of_an_outsider_than_the_first_woman_president.html

^snip^

"I cannot imagine anyone being more of an outsider than the first woman president," Clinton stated. "I mean, really, let's think about that."



Terrible candidate.

[JonLeibowitz]

33. +1. n/t

[shenmue]

49. Are you kidding?

[Motown_Johnny]

51. Nope, she has said multiple times that she is qualified because of her gender.

She is running on it.


This is because of her statements.

[boston bean]

55. I know right. I passed right over this comment because it so frickin ironic

I couldn't put words to it.

[msanthrope]

79. Men don't run on being men? Mansplain that to me, please. nt

[Motown_Johnny]

85. It is easier to show you.

Please click on this link (It is one of Hillary's) and look at what the popup asking for a donation says.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/8-ways-hillary-clinton-just-your-abuela/




Now tell me that she is not running on her gender and/or present some example of a man doing anything similar.


Un

Freaking

Believable



Terrible Candidate, Terrible Campaign.

[msanthrope]

91. Men run on the platform that they are the default gender.

If you can't see that, then you have no understanding of what gender means in this world.

[Orrex]

99. ^^That

[msanthrope]

104. Thank you. You get it. nt

[paleotn]

25. In a word....

No. Not as long as it seems to apply to many here. Much of the reasoning is so weak one can only come to that conclusion. Well thought out, policy based reasons, please.

[Squinch]

81. "it seems to apply to many here." Show me two.

[Ed Suspicious]

26. Nope. When you say we should vote for her because we want the first woman President . . . Ovaries.

[freedom fighter jh]

34. Exactly

[MyNameGoesHere]

45. So you equate women into one thing?

Ovaries? Can't think of anything else a woman might have besides ovaries?

[paleotn]

60. Not hardly.

But when one says their voting for her simply to have the first woman prez, policy be damned, what else are we supposed to conclude? Warren would have received a much different reception.

[Ed Suspicious]

69. And while I would have thought the fact that Warren could elected President would represent some

sort of social progress in the country's attitudes toward women, in the list of reasons why I would vote for her to be the President, that "qualification" would be absent from the list. It just isn't how I chose my candidates. I would never look at two equal candidates and decide to vote for the man because, you know, testicles. I hold the same commitment to electing representatives who represent my interests in an effective and accurate manner rather than electing them on the basis of concern for the candidate's sex/gender.

[Cassiopeia]

27. I see it expressed as a primary reason for her support.

From some posters.

Do you think ovaries should he listed as a qualification? If not, have you told posters that sexual organs are the least meaningful reason to vote for a candidate?

[boston bean]

28. Really, you think people are saying Hillary has ovaries and that's the reason I am going to vote for

her?

Come on.

Most people supporting Hillary aren't sexist and wouldn't reduce her to a body part. Others..... well.... they own what they write.

[Cassiopeia]

44. Yes, I've honestly seen that as one of the reasons to support her.

I agree most do not list gender as a primary reason for support, but a vocal few certainly do.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

110. Yes, people do say they're voting for her because she's a woman.

This isn't a theory; it's not a hypothesis. It's factual.

[homegirl]

61. Until

a woman is elected president the primary qualification for the presidency is TESTICLES!

[Squinch]

82. Show me two posters who have said it is the primary reason they are supporting her.

[freedom fighter jh]

29. It's a reasonable response to . . .

. . . the suggestion that one should vote for her because she's a woman.

Since I was a little girl, I have always wanted to see a woman president of the U.S. But I don't think being a woman is in itself a qualification.

"She has ovaries" is a sarcastic way of saying her sex is not a qualification. Sarcasm is part of life around DU.

[boston bean]

31. It is not reasonable. Reducing a woman and her supporters to a body part

is inherently sexist.

There are many reasons her candidacy is historic and it aint because she has ovaries.

Stop saying it, please.

[freedom fighter jh]

40. Please don't tell me what to say and not say.

You decide what you say, and I'll decide what I say. That's how it works.

And anyway, I didn't say it, and in fact I never heard it until you quoted it.

I did defend it. It's a literary technique called synecdoche, where the part symbolizes the whole. Is it sexist to use sexual organs to stand for a whole woman? Of course it is. But in a way that's the point. The implication of voting for her for her sex is that you're *not* voting for the whole person, just her sex -- thus, ovaries.

And don't tell me no one wants to vote for her for her sex. Sure, some like her policies, but some just want to vote for a woman, and they say so.

[stupidicus]

30. Sure, as soon as you or yours quit saying Bernie can't win the general/is unelectable

eom

[earthside]

32. Just be honest.

The blather from so many Hillary supporters is amazing ... and an insult to our intelligence.

My experience on the internet and in-person is that Hillary Clinton being a woman is the top, primary reason they are supporting her.

[boston bean]

35. Inherent in your statement is that these supporters would vote for any woman.

Have any these people you speak of of the led you to believe they would support a Sarah Palin, or Carly Fiorina, or Michelle Bachman?

This sexist line they toss out there is to try and embarrass women for supporting a woman, reducing their support of her to a body part. Come on, this is feminism 101.

Listen, the first woman president of the United States would be historic. There is no denying that. Why would you not want people to verbalize that?

[NCTraveler]

39. Very well put.

I would also like to add Clintons very impressive career with respect to who you responded to. There is so much to her yet some simply project their own tunnel vision onto others.

[NCTraveler]

36. I don't think it needs to stop.

It lets us know who they are. Educating them won't happen overnights but it is happening. Until then I'm good with how open some are.

[MarianJack]

37. She has ovaries AND...

...she'll be a GREAT President. That's why I'm voting for her!

PEACE!

[Skidmore]

38. Absolutely...

The history of women as functioning citizens has been such a short one.

A reminder:

And, might I add, it was only 1920 in which we were given the right to vote. My grandmothers were young women then. Such a long time ago. Most of the advances noted in that video above have happened since I reached my majority.

[valerief]

42. She's post-menopausal. The ovaries are empty. nt

[tularetom]

43. I'm not going to vote against her because she has ovaries

But I am going to vote against her because she is an unprincipled liar.

However, since you asked, yes, I would like to see her have an oophorectomy, just so I could hear the TV talking heads use the word "oophorectomy" on prime time network and cable news shows. I would reconnect my dish for that.

[Gothmog]

46. Hillary Clinton is the most qualified candidate in the field

[IronLionZion]

47. That's a terrible way to talk about Carly Fiorina!

People can vote for whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Why care what someone else thinks of it? Do you need anyone's permission?

Some people looked right at my family while traveling in Florida one day and said "You folks look like Obama voters!" even though we had nothing to indicate that. And they said nothing else to us after that. It was weird.

[Jackilope]

48. Good point. I would add ...

... she needs to tone it down in using gender as one of her selling points. I don't recall Obama in debates mentioning race in debates the way HRC does with gender.

I think she has a bit, but I had to wince a few times during first debate.

[boston bean]

50. Barack Obama had an entire speech on race which was widely read, and viewed and reported in the

media.

This entire re-writing of history is really curious.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88478467

[Jackilope]

73. A needed speech. The context of timing, etc.different...

... with the Rev. Wright clip being played over and over and over.

[boston bean]

78. And???

There is no need to address sexism?

Have you listened to Donald Trump. Do you read what's been written just in this thread?

Do you not see the almost complete obliteration of a womans right to choose?

When would a better context and timing be to your liking?

[Bluenorthwest]

52. Well I'd never in a million years say that. That's rhetoric that is more your sort.

Here is you, telling us the first Jewish contender only thinks about $$ while insisting that the last liberal in America to stop telling me her God opposes my rights is really the one who understands civil rights:
"Racism/Sexism/Homophobia etc is not solved with a fat wallet.
I've also read how Bernie feels we have overcome racism because a black president was elected.
He is way out of the norm of liberal thought on this.
He wants ignorant white republicans to vote for him. They'll vote for him cause they may feel empathetic with the class issue, but it aint gonna make then any less sexist/homophobic or racist. And he has told you, that it is not a main focus of his.

So, in a nut shell, I would much prefer a candidate who at least has inkling of what it's like to live in this country with those issues that effect every waking moment of their life.

And not just concerning themselves with the $$ signs."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251439324#post27

Of course Bernie never said we've overcome racism. That's you characterizing what he said, incorrectly and treating other people as if we are idiots who can't read.

Obama and Hillary both did tons of aggressive 'outreach' to bigoted anti gay voter blocks, they went to Megachurches and said 'you are my people we all oppose their rights'. So why is it so wrong for Bernie to ask for Republican votes? Obama did. Hillary did. Not just Republicans but organized bigoted anti gay voters. Remember Rick Warren, Bean?
So is it that they only bashed 'the gays' or is it that what they did was 'Church based' while Bernie is um, not a church goer? It really starts having that feel.
All the candidates seek conservative votes, some go to Church and praise and agree with the bigots to do so. But Bernie, he's just about the $$. The choice of memes is most startling to me.
Those who judge others tend to forget the obvious. They are being judged in return by others.

[boston bean]

54. You care to comment on the point of the post.

If not, take the blame game and excuse making some place else, please.

Do you or do you not agree that it is sexist to say such a thing. Or do you agree with the people who say it.

No equivocations, please and finger pointing.

On African-American support for Democrats

Well, here's what you got. What you got is an African-American president, and the African-American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for president. And that's kind of natural. You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help.

But that's not important. You should not be basing your politics based on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing? ... In the last election, in state after state, you had an abysmally low vote for the Democrats among white, working-class people. And I think the reason for that is that the Democrats have not made it clear that they are prepared to stand with the working-class people of this country, take on the big money interests. I think the key issue that we have to focus on, and I know people are uncomfortable about talking about it, is the role of the billionaire class in American society.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters

I stand by every single word I wrote, and I figure you to would find Bernie's words discouraging. But nope you are more into the blame game and pointing fingers at others instead of taking the principled stand you like to purport you are taking. But the finger pointing and blame gaming, takes all that away. I just can't take it serious any longer. Use to really enjoy speaking with you, but you seem to have something personal with me going on here. As every single post to me is accusing me of some slight you think I've made without one iota of proof.

[Bluenorthwest]

62. What were my first words to you? 'I'd ever in a million years say that'. I condemned it

first thing, bean. You ignored that. Care to address what I said? I doubt you have to courage to do so.
I would assist in calling for and end to the sexist trope if you in the Clinton camp would stop saying Bernie only cares about $$. That is an antisemitic trope. Sure, people will parse that out and claim it is not, but that is also done about the sexist stuff. Both tropes should be avoided by decent people to protect from even the appearance of bigotry. But neither side has any actual ethics right now.

I'm also not keen on straight folks exploiting LGBT issues as if Hillary had been the leading champion instead of the lagging and tardy ally. Like many of her supporters here, she was still speaking against marriage equality long after Bernie or for that matter Dick Cheney.

So evasive crap just exposes the evasion, kid. I don't like how some speak of Hillary, also don't care for how some, including you, chew up the scenery in your attacks on Bernie.
I think those of you who do the extreme rhetoric and characterization method create the environment in which harsher and harsher language becomes the stock in trade of the day.

I do not have to see crappy tactics as good or bad depending on which side is using them, crappy is crappy.

[boston bean]

68. Again, more finger pointing. You have something you want to say to me.

You have something I wrote that shows to you I'm some bigot that deserves you trailing into my threads intimating I am something you know I am not.

I added to my post above, while you were replying. Only fair to point it out.

But carry on with whatever this is. I do know one thing it is... disappointing.

[Bluenorthwest]

75. You are finger pointing, exploiting LGBT and evanding any challenge to your actions.

I have said exactly what I wanted to say to you, including that I would never use that brand of rhetoric but that you in fact do use that brand.

You have not actually responded. I did not expect you to.

[boston bean]

76. I am exploiting LGBT?? WTH?

That is just not true, but believe whatever the hell you want.

[Bluenorthwest]

86. You bring up LGBT issues at hurl them at Bernie, as if DOMA politics was better for

us but we are too stupid to know that. I quoted you saying Bernie thinks a big fat wallet solves homophobia. Which he does not. You make use of an issue to serve an unrelated issue and to attack a person who is not deserving of criticism on that issue. That is exploitation. Making use of one thing to serve an agenda apart from it.

I posted your telling us all that Bernie that a big fat wallet cures homophobia.

The man's family lost many members to the Holocaust. And you say he thinks bigotry is solved by a big fat wallet. It's not a set of word choices I'd make.

I have for Hillary a few deciding and specific criticisms of her LGBT rights history. But I'd never suggest she misunderstands the entire issue or that she thinks it is all about money. She's on our side, if not perfectly she was at least early. So is Bernie. It's really not proper in my view to launch some generalized diatribe about either one of them on civil rights issues as if they are opponents when they are both pretty great supporters. To suggest that either one of them are reductive or dismissive of the issues is just not accurate.

So I don't at all like the 'he thinks homophobia is solved by fat wallets' thing. To me it is exploitative, inaccurate and not proper. I think it is extreme and unsupported by facts. I think that sort of thing breeds more of that sort of thing.

[boston bean]

87. Does a big fat wallet solve homophobia?

You can twist and turn my words into anything you would like. Like now I am not only exploiting LGBT, I am an anti-semite... WTF??

I think you need to try to understand context of the posts I was responding to.

I don't think Bernie really wants to discuss anything but economic issues, because he wants votes from people who could give a shit less about social issues. He states this himself for Christ sakes! In summary, he states, We should not be basing on votes on these issues.. we should be basing them on our economics.

That is concerning to me. I'm sorry, but more money in anyone's wallet is not going to solve those issues, and it's been stated here over and over and over again, that it would.

But you twist it any way you would like. I know who I am and you have one hell of a nerve.

I'm done responding to you with any respectful posts.

[Bluenorthwest]

80. I can read, bean. MA overcame homophobia and passed the first marriage equality laws,

and yet homophobia still exists including in MA. What you want Bernie to have said is 'the country proved that racism has been eradicated by voting for Obama'. That's not what he said.
Which Party is full of people who ignore the economic status of their own families and vote for policies that harm them because they vote according to or influenced by race? The Republican Party. Do you think there are some Republicans who have benefited from Obama policy that oppose him with lots of racist motives? I know that there are. On food stamps and voting for Mitt, because Kenya.

So. Is Bernie wrong to say that's a crappy way to make a voting choice? I like my healthcare but Kenya? Those racists should not have been voting for Mitt. They should not vote for Republicans, and I'm not sure what the problem is with that.

Hillary has also talked about winning white working class voters. But Bernie, he can't do that.

I think you do to Bernie what some do to Hillary you listen with bias and ill intent, which is not listening at all.
You cite that language but you do not tell me why you think it is so bad. Can you? I have told you why I think it is honest political language about racist Republican voters.
But to you, what does it sound like? Some hear Hillary say she ate lunch and they report it as she pledged allegiance to the oligarchy again. So fuzzy finger painting does not really carry the day.
What are your complaints? You post that as if it is some horrific statement. Why do you think that?

[boston bean]

83. I do think he is absolutely wrong in making such a statement.

I think he does so to as to not have to deal with "wedge" issues and alienate voters who agree with him on economic issues and not social issues.. He does this to try to convince people to vote for him based on a purely economic appeal. And that is pure politics. He tells you this in his own words I linked you to.

I feel that is extremely wrong headed and I find it a bit politically craven and calculating. I support Hillary and can also disagree with things she has said in the past and into today. However, I don't think she has ever separated the two like he has.

What I really don't like is someone basically pushing these important issues to the side in order to fix one other problem in order to get votes of people who would likely disagree with him on social issues. If people want to say Hillary will be beholden to corporations because employees of corporations have made donations to her, then I think also it is likely that he would not be as great on social issues due to the type of persons that helped him get elected.

And I think that pretty much sucks and don't agree with those types of political calculations. Difference between you and me maybe is you see him as not being a political animal. I do however do seem him very much as a politician.

[Bluenorthwest]

92. And yet Hillary and Obama both sought 'common ground' with anti gay Churches and

persons. "What I really don't like is someone basically pushing these important issues to the side in order to fix one other problem in order to get votes of people who would likely disagree with him on social issues." So again, Hillary and Barack can go to anti gay Churches and openly say they are wanting the votes of people who disagree with them on social issues but Bernie can not? Because they both have done that, repeatedly.

Here is what Bernie said at Liberty, his opening words:
"Thank you, President Falwell and David. Thank you very much for inviting my wife, Jane, and me to be with you even this morning. We appreciate the invitation very much.

And let me start off by acknowledging what I think all of you already know. And that is the views that many here at Liberty University have and I, on a number of important issues, are very, very different. I believe in a woman's rights....
And the right of a woman to control her own body.
I believe gay rights and gay marriage.
Those are my views, and it is no secret. But I came here today, because I believe from the bottom of my heart that it is vitally important for those of us who hold different views to be able to engage in a civil discourse."

No bones about it with Bernie. Let me start off with choice and gay rights. I'm for them.

[boston bean]

95. Again, pointing this out to me like I am responsible, and exploiting LGBT because

Obama and Hillary did something.

WTF??? I am personally responsible for this. My vote for Hillary makes me exploiting LGBT and an anti semite.

You got some weird twisted thinking going on there. I can criticize Bernie and not be any of those things. As you well know I am not.

Did you vote for Obama? Are you responsible for all his decisions? Am I unable to discuss these issues, because I voted for Obama?

You got some strange purity tests going on there. No possible way I could pass them. But please do continue on.

You got some proof that I agreed with Barack on his choices regarding anti gay churches. When in fact, I excoriated him for it during the primaries. Yet I am some unprincipled person in your view???

Hillary is not perfect and there is no defense to some of the things she has said over the years, yet I will vote for her, because I believe she is the best candidate. I do believe, contrary to your beliefs that she is a friend to LGBT and to women, latinos and black persons. Her record proves this out.

I can still be absolutely dead right on about Bernie and his political calculations. Doesn't make me one of the things you are intimating.

[TCJ70]

53. That depends...

...on what your reasons for supporting her are. If it is because she's a she...then, no. If you have other reasons, great!

[djean111]

57. Can we stop with the "The only reason you won't vote for Hillary is because you hate strong women"?

Or "Of course all women will vote for Hillary"? Just as old, just as demeaning and insulting.

[PyaarRevolution]

72. Might I add...

I would have no problem supporting Cynthia McKinney or Elizabeth Warren running for President and I would love to hear anyone here contest that they are not strong women.
I have already said one of the big reasons I don't like Hillary is that she's been too cozy with Wal Street and that's putting it nicely.

If you want me to be blunt, and this is a general criticism towards most of the MEN running in the election as well(especially Trump), they're too aggressive in their posturing and speaking. The same holds true for Hillary. That being said, the men get a pass and it's called assertive. No, their behavior is aggressive and women across the board get called for it when EVERYONE should be criticized for it. If it's borderline then a woman WILL get called on it unlike a man.

[hootinholler]

58. When she stops being the first woman president in her stump routine

Then I'll consider it.

[daybranch]

63. Silly question at the time, and still is- because no one with ovaries was running

so no, as long as we keep hearing from women on here and in our local neighborhoods that we should elect Hillary just because, and then just because and finally because she is a woman. Even worse are the statements a woman has to be twice as accomplished and qualified as a man, when we ll know she is only at this point due to her husband. Her gender specific appeals are so insultingly obvious.

[Scootaloo]

64. Well, did you ever SAY you were voting for testicles?

Did you ever treat testicles as a policy issue on par with foreign or economic or justice policies? Did you accuse someone of being misandrist if they voted against someone who had testicles?



And hey, you're right. if you ant to vote for someone for their gender, that's your right. But don't complain when you say "I'm voting for her becuse of her sex organs!" and someone says "you're voting for her for her sex organs!"

[burfman]

65. People, please! Let's keep it dignified and remember Shirley Chisholm who was there first!

For those of you too young to remember:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Chisholm

[SheilaT]

66. Aside from the fact I have never seen anyone make that statement,

I have seen (here and elsewhere) and awful lot of people saying they will vote for her because they want a woman President. And if challenged about exactly why they like and intend to vote for her, they rarely come up with anything substantive. Or if challenged on specifics of her issues, they never seem to have any response.

Plus, of course, Hillary herself seems to be basing much of her campaign on her potentially being the first woman President.

Not that she's even the first woman to run. In modern times Shirley Chisholm, along with Patsy Mink and Bella Abzug, were serious contenders. Not that their campaigns got very far, but they did run. More recently there was Pat Schroeder in 1988 and 1992. Not to mention the Democrats had the first female vice-Presidential candidate in Geraldine Ferraro.

True, we haven't yet elected a woman to the Oval Office, but when I hear or read someone putting forth her gender as the first reason they are voting for her, I have to wonder.

[Starry Messenger]

67. It is useful for outing the bigots.

[Feeling the Bern]

70. Okay. ARe you going to vote for her because she is the best capable of addressing your issues

and concerns?

You've got your horse, I've got mine. Let the best non-Republican win!

[Uponthegears]

71. I'm sorry

where on DU was that question asked? Did I miss it (you did say "we&quot , are you talking about something some Trump supporter said to you, or is this just a way of insinuating that Bernie supporters are all raging sexists? I ask because if you can point me to where on DU someone made such a reprehensible comment I and most every other Bernie supporter would like to join you in condemning it.

[Squinch]

84. Well, here are some examples from this thread insisting that people are voting for her primarily

because of her gender:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=964952

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251964743#post27

[Uponthegears]

88. Are you serious

The first comment said that some of the reasons her supporters give are so weak that they can't see any other reason, the second said the same thing and the third was actually from a supporter saying it was a valid consideration. There may well be reasons to choose Hillary over Bernie, but battling "Democrat Sexism" is not one of them.

[Squinch]

90. Um. Actually there are only two comments. And your characterization of their content is ...

unrelated to the actual content.

[Uponthegears]

98. Okay

Fine, my "characterization" (apparently a euphemism for "accurate description&quot is unrelated . . . In that case, I amend my reply to "Neither of those posts say the indefensible words contained in the OP. Quit trying to spin any comment criticizing the failure of Hillary supporters to articulate the policy reasons underlying their support into ad hominem attacks on those people who support her opponents."

[Squinch]

106. I gave links to posters who were doing what you said no one did. If you think that's spin, then so

be it.

[Uponthegears]

107. Your claim

is what is spin. The posts speak for themselves.

[boston bean]

100. here you go, hope to see all those Bernie supporters condemning it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=964439

[Uponthegears]

102. That was in response to

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=964378

Which actually does say we should vote for Hillary because of her gender. Now, there actually was an offensive post down two from what you threw out there. I am in the process of criticizing it.

[Uponthegears]

109. What's wrong

I went to your link, discovered that your characterization of the post was misleading and out of context. Then, instead of just leaving it at that, I followed the replies that post and, when I discovered one that actually was offensive, condemned it in no uncertain terms. Were you were too caught up in faux outrage to notice?

[Ferd Berfel]

74. Could we stop with: We know shes indebted to Wall Street, Corporations and the Oligarchy

But it doesn't matter.... we're voting for her anyway?

[Empowerer]

93. We heard this before: "Black people are voting for Obama only because he's black"

As if black people have not voted for white candidates over and over and over and over again - often, even when they were running against black candidates. Black voters are the least race-conscious of voters - we vote based on issues, not race.

And now we're hearing the same slap at women voters - as if we are so blinded by gender, we can't be trusted to cast an intelligent vote. Women have been voting for men for decades and no one has batted an eye. But when women voters support a highly-qualified woman who stands a chance of beating all of the men she's running against, they are suddenly voting only on gender.

Funny thing, though - white, male voters have been voting for white men for centuries and they are NEVER accused of race/gender-based voting. I wonder why . . .

[wildeyed]

114. When I voted for Obama

I was told it was because I had white liberal guilt. I was like, No, really, I'm good. I genuinely think he is the better candidate.... This time I like Hillary best and it is because ovaries? Hmmm, not likely.

Let's do math! Since 1/2 the voters in this country have ovaries, and there are 100 Senators and only 20 are women, safe to say that the ovary thing is not a big advantage in politics. Only two black Senators, so "white liberal guilt" was an even lamer excuse.

[Empowerer]

116. I've studied this and found that it is white voters who vote race, not minorities

For example, in 2004 when several candidates were running in the Democratic primary, a sliver of voters supported Al Sharpton and Carol Moseley Braun while the vast majority of voters - white and black supported one of the other candidates, all of whom were white. However, whenever one of the white candidates dropped out, their white supporters shifted to other candidates - but not to Sharpton or Moseley Braun. In other words, the majority of black voters spread their votes around between white and black candidates - with white candidates getting more of their support - while white voters voted almost exclusively for white candidates.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

101. The last time I voted for president, it was for a woman. And, I didn't care about her ovariis.

If Hillary gets the nomination, I'll probably vote for a woman again...but it won't be Hillary.

[mcar]

111. K&R

[onehandle]

115. Hide stalker fail...

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Fri Jan 1, 2016, 09:52 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Can we stop with the "You are going to vote for her because she has ovaries?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251964743

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

I think this is uncalled for.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jan 1, 2016, 09:58 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If I didn't know better, I might think someone is targeting this poster. This should not have been alerted on at all.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alert abuse
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Just more war between the sexes baiting for a typical poster of such things.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Dem2]

117. Ovaries are just testicles that decided it was safer inside

[Bonobo]

118. I agree and applaud you.

Voting for her or anyone because of their genitals is idiotic.

Great OP!

[Fawke Em]

119. As soon as she stops telling us to vote for her because she does. eom