2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThere is No National Leader Other than Sanders Ready to Directly Confront the Uber Rich's Power
It really boils down to that. Greed is this nation's cardinal sin; the lust for power and possessions, the addiction to conspicuous consumption, the hoarding of precious resources for the egotistical pride of ownership. Greed has become so ubiquitous that it is no longer recognized as unethical, let alone immoral, to embrace it. Most of the super rich believe that they deserve everything that they have, that they have in some way earned it all. And that they are fully entitled to acquire even more regardless of how much human suffering caused by basic deprivation multiplies around them. The standard by which their actions are now judged isn't ethics, it isn't morality, the standard is legislatively defined legality, and even that standard is applied loosely. Loopholes in the law are rarely simple errors, they are almost always intentional evasions of the professed intent of the actual law, ordered by and paid for by those who profit from evading it, made legal through the magic of campaign donations and the boutique hand crafted statures that the uber rich hire lobbyists and lawyers to write for them.
Working people can no longer afford to pay the tab for the limitless sense of entitlement that the ultra wealthy in America are infected with. When we say enough is enough they fundamentally can't grasp that cry because the word "enough" literally has no meaning to them. There is no such thing as enough in their world view, more is always better when it comes to them. And it all seems so very normal to our elites: the way divine rights once seemed normal to royalty, the way slavery once seemed normal to slave owners, and child labor once seemed normal to mill owners.
No doubt many, but by no means all, of the super wealthy work hard in pursuit of their extravagances. No doubt many, but by no means all, of the super wealthy are subject to significant stress in pursuit of their fortunes. But most of the poor work hard in pursuit of basic survival, and are subject to significant stress in a desperate struggle to keep food on their tables and a roof over their heads. What high powered CEO working 60 hour work weeks in the throes of fierce competition faces more stress than a parent who can't assure their child of food or a place to live? And when the wealthy get ill, when life itself lies in the balance, though there may or may not be a cure for what ails them means always exist to pursue any shred of hope in finding one. With the poor though, even when an established treatment holds promise for a cure the means to avail themselves of it frequently is denied. Greed fundamentally dictates the variables in the equation of life and death. It is that simple and that profound.
The last refuge of those who defend the sense of extreme entitlement that the super wealthy take for granted is the concept of some special talents, some special abilities, that make their unique contributions to society worthy of virtually unlimited levels of compensation, even in times of wide spread economic scarcity. How much is the ability to accurately forecast a market trend worth in a year: One hundred thousand, five hundred thousand, five million, five hundred million? Or to repeatedly close complex development deals; ten million, five hundred million, more? How much is a biochemist worth who doggedly pursues a brilliant insight and pioneers a new approach to a cancer treatment? Is it anywhere in the same ball park? Or what about the psychotherapist with the insights and ability to penetrate and sooth a troubled mind before it hardens into that of the next mass murderer? How about those fire fighters who rushed up the second twin tower with their highly disciplined skill set after the first tower had fallen? Are the efforts of one downtown land developer really worth more than the collective contribution of an entire major city fire department?
An oligarchy is blind to questions of basic justice that impedes its sense of privilege. The more powerful it becomes the more power it exerts and the more new power it seeks to accumulate. The difference in the compensation for an average corporate worker and an average CEO continues to grow exponentially while earnings shrink for most Americans, along with the middle class itself. There is nothing about politics as usual that will fundamentally alter this trajectory. This is the status quo of deterioration, the one we have lived with for 40 years - worsening by the decade, that left unchecked ultimately leads to an implosion, an explosion, or both. If and when that occurs it won't really threaten the super wealthy, they have the option of shifting their personal operations to Singapore or wherever else their wealth can buy them all of the perks that they are addicted to. Patriotism in the final analysis means little to a global class of billionaires free to cross most ant border.
Bernie Sanders is alone in the national spotlight right now in speaking unvarnished truth to an increasingly consolidated seat of economic power. Greed is a cancer hollowing out the fiber of our nation and Bernie Sanders has the vision, fortitude, and courage to openly acknowledge and confront it. Our nation needs an attitude adjustment, big time, and not just for the rich; all of us need to examine our consciences. What do we find morally unacceptable, and what will we do politically about it? A day of reckoning is coming, the longer it is put off the more tens of millions will suffer. Explosive change is dangerous and never guarantees a positive outcome. That can be averted, we can still prevail through a peaceful struggle to restore our democracy to one that, in the words of Lincoln,is of the people, by the people and for the people. That effort though is far less likely to succeed with leaders who paper over the great economic divide among us, either with platitudes like vows to make America great again or with yet another round of window dressing proposals.
We need a president unafraid to tell it like it really is, in the daily lives of most of our citizens; one willing to take on the full force and fury head on of those who have presided over the virtually complete transformation of our once vibrant democracy into an oligarchy. If not Bernie Sanders now, who then, and when?
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Thank you.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)I know that it is more or less a rant but it is one I needed to make. I am amazed at the sense of privilege that some people possess in the face of overwhelming evidence of their relative greed. It has to be attacked frontally and Sanders is the only person with the national platform to do so effectively who is using it for that.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Hillary and Bill have been work with the Dem party;
for real change that happen when they were in office.
The Clintons were able to raise taxes on the rich and
charge the rich with their bills. Not a single
GOP vote was had on the turn around budget
the Clintons put forward in the 90's.
Sanders was in a small state doing his own things,
letting other people carry his water.
The Clintons have paid and will pay for their fight for the American people,
by GOP attacks for the rest of their lives.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Or do you feel there are other people running for president that actually care about truly solving them?
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)skills anymore than Tom: Especially on the National
stage: that is just for starters: with the White house
in the balance is not time armature hour.
Leaders in Dem have to be smart not just right and
they have to be realistic.
Again, Politics is the art of the possible, their are many
players in the game with many interest who are
all good American. (Sanders people just thing they
can wish them away with the competent for their
success)
Sanders lived in one party state: doesn't' know how
to play cards like FDR.
The Clinton, when they were young learned the hard
way, to get thing done you have to win a seat at
the table first. The Clinton's have paid with their
lives to get that seat to fight for all Americans.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)People all across the nation now are debating the validity of Bernie Sander's views and potential leadership. I have detected none of that activity regarding me. Coming from a tiny state with no major industries or hyper wealthy backers financing him, Bernie Sanders is showing some pretty impressive political skills running against a very formidable, competent, and well connected Democratic opponent.
What is possible is subject to change. Prior to the "Reagan Revolution" the rise of "New Democrats" and the DLC supplanting the then traditional view of the Democratic Party as the party of FDR's policies and priorities wasn't viewed as very likely.
In my OP I believe I refrained from taking cheap shots against either Clinton (and no I am not accusing you of taking a cheap shot against Sanders). They have all three of them devoted a lifetime to fighting for America. I can agree to that whether or not you do also.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)County doesn't need with someone potential: they
need someone how knows how to run the country now:
I love Obama but it took him forever to understand
the GOP were not going work with him.
Sanders doesn't have not management skills
I get it that you think he is nice guy but nice guy finish
last. Just like Mondale and McGovern, they could
be admired, but could not become President
JFK said, no boy untried boy-scot can be President
That is just what Sanders is: so were the Clinton's when
they started: The manage to take down the GOP, we
need to take the GOP down again.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)You're very concerned with the candidates as people, and very concerned with appearances. After all, that is all your arguments contain.
You seem utterly unconcerned about policy. The stuff that actually will affect you, me, and everyone else on the planet.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)etc. Hillary already works on policy with her fellow
party members.
What would affect you would be to let the GOP into the
White House and letting them start the war the want
with Iran.
What would affect you is a GOP Cruz person in the white house
ending Obama care.
What is complicated about these policy you have to discuss about:
the time now is win the political fight so: the American people
will a seat at the table of power.
Policy exists utterly independently of political parties. SNAP doesn't give a fuck if a candidate is a Democrat or a Republican. Tax credits don't care about party.
And again you demonstrate just how little you pay attention to policy. Clinton has been about as bellicose on Iran as the Republicans.
Actually, no that wouldn't affect me. I've got employer-based insurance. Now, I am also capable of empathy, so I don't want people to go without healthcare, but the ACA is, at best, a step towards a real healthcare system.
Yeah, excluding "the people" from the ACA debate really shows just how much the people get a seat at the table of power.
Meanwhile, you utterly ignore a ton of other policy choices that do not fit your narrative. Once again demonstrating you just do not give a damn about policy. You care about "your team" winning.
So....adults aren't people?
Also, you need to learn about word wrap if you're going to pretend to be "an adult". You don't have to hit enter at the end of a line. The computer will wrap the text for you.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)no one else was stepping forward to do the job. He isn't running for President because he wants to be President, he's running for President because he feels it's his duty to help the American people. If O'Malley or someone else like him had stepped forth and could go up against Hillary, Bernie wouldn't have felt the need to run.
The difference is Hillary wants to be President, Bernie wants to do the President's job.
Z
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)He has never served; or as any executive anywhere
but a very small state.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)and turned the city around, in the 80's.
Hillary does not have any experience in the Executive branch either, nor even as a mayor. She was the WIFE of an executive, not the executive itself. Watching someone do something is not like doing it yourself.
Z
Armstead
(47,803 posts)He was not taken seriously at first, but after showing that he knew how to administer, build coalitions and hire the right people, even his critics were impressed.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)it aint gonna get us out of it.
I'll vote for the kind of future I want to see.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)and because the liberal didn't vote.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)free trade agreements, mandatory minimum sentences and so on.
Oh wait...I'm supposed to pretend all those were good things, right?
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Uh-huh.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)While people who aren't smart enough to realize they're powerless spout rationalizations and protest that things "aren't illegal" without noticing that one hell of a lot of slimy behavior is "legal".
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Clearly this type of "collateral damage" is acceptable to some.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)desperate. HRC is doing extremely well and keeping it presidential. I like and respect that.
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)Thanks for the thread, Tom Rinaldo.
Segami
(14,923 posts)Ron Green
(9,822 posts)The culture of hierarchy, being fear-based, is so much easier to maintain than the culture of egalitarianism; and America's "bootstrap" mythology, through modern corporate capitalism, has nurtured that fear.
Thanks for this excellent OP.
MuseRider
(34,103 posts)so well!
Your presence here has added so much over the years. This may be a rant but it reads far better than most rants I have ever read.
I could not agree with you more Tom.
Never stop writing, on the side I am on or not, your writing has always made good reading. I am glad we are on the same primary side this time.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)The process of takings sides between Democrats during primaries is essential, the stakes are high and rightfully so. But I don't enjoy the bitter divisions that often flare up between many of us at DU before the nomination is resolved.
fleur-de-lisa
(14,624 posts)blondie58
(2,570 posts)And I certainly agree! Bernie is the change. He is worth 700,000k and Hillary and Bill are worth 225 Million. Really, how much money do you need?
Enough is enough!
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)How long do the less fortunate have to suffer before Third Way voters care? I still find it hard to believe every single LIBERAL/Progressive in this country isn't voting for Bernie Sanders. What more could a Progressive ask for from a candidate? He has stood up and defended us for 40+ years. He has never waffled or "evolved" on issues, because he never had to. He was right to begin with. He's the President we've been waiting for since FDR and there's people in the "Democratic" party voting for a Wall St. supported candidate instead.
Frankly, I find it disgusting and based purely on greed and gender. Which are two unethical criteria to vote for someone - and sad, knowing what HRH supports - wars, wars, wars and more wars, knowing she takes money from Wall St., from Big Corporations, from prisons for profits, she supports fracking, she supported NAFTA, the TPP, the XL pipeline, she voted for the bankruptcy bill which disproportionately hurts women and children, she supported her husband's welfare reform which disproportionately hurts women and children and so much more...the list goes on and on.
People are choosing to support someone like her over a good, kind, caring, honest, trustworthy and most ethical man in politics, Bernie Sanders. Shame on them.
I like how Elizabeth Warren put it too:
There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory... Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.
Elizabeth Warren
Great, great post, Tom.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
Playinghardball
(11,665 posts)Can't wait for your next one!!
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)ymetca
(1,182 posts)anyone being president can stop what's coming. Those "uber-rich" Global Citizens might be surprised once the hoi polloi no longer want to put on uniforms and fight for their flags. It seems like we're experiencing the final phase of humanity's adolescence, which must result in a lot of chaos followed by the establishment of a more mature and egalitarian global order that no longer divides the world into nation-states, or corporately controlled "ownership" of planetary resources.
Every nation, every woman, child and man
Comes on a moment, where they must take a stand,
Oh no, forget what you know, just let the wind blow,
Blown apart, you open your heart, and that's where anything can be.
If you believe in me
I will believe in what will be,
We want the world you've only dreamed of,
Promise of our seasons,
Give us the future please,
That's all we need of you.
--Kenny Loggins
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)If the inarticulate criticism from a resident of Camp Weathervane is the best response they have, Hillary is in big trouble. If calling Bernie a socialist is the best Hillary's defenders can do, she is in big trouble, especially when polls show that if Bernie is a socialist for wanting to break up too-big-to-fail banks than so are an overwhelming majority of American voters who agree with that plan.
Worst of all, if either Hillary Clinton or any of the assorted Koch-addled clowns in the Republican Party wins, we are all in big trouble.
At the root of the problems you identify is the sense of entitlement by the rich and the myth that they are smarter, more talented and better at what they do then the rest of us. I supposed the evidence that supports the myth is the ton of money GM lost from the way their best and brightest designed and marketed cars, the climate crisis being visited on us by the way the best and brightest of the fossil fuel industries have refused to take responsibility for the problems they have created or even lie about the existence of a problem, or the cash of 2008, caused by Wall Street's best and brightest who gamble with their savers' money and then, when it doesn't work as well as expected, they get the taxpayers, many of whom are the same savers they robbed in the first place, to foot the bill. Meanwhile, the best and brightest bribe crooked politicians of both parties into repealing more laws that worked to keep Americans safe from the abuses of a corrupt elite for decades.
I am convinced that the common people can run government and industry better than a corrupt elite and their bought-and-paid-for political stooges. That sounds like a revolution, and that is exactly the prescription that Senator Sanders has written.
If this is socialism, let us make the most of it. It beats the same tired policies of the last three and a half decades that have brought us income inequality, lost jobs, lower wages, more industrial waste in drinking water, climate change and rise in white-collar crime, if it can still be called after crooked bankers and financiers paid off crooked politicians and got them to repeal laws against fraud.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,013 posts)These are just perfectly captured
"Greed is this nation's cardinal sin; the lust for power and possessions, the addiction to conspicuous consumption, the hoarding of precious resources for the egotistical pride of ownership. Greed has become so ubiquitous that it is no longer recognized as unethical, let alone immoral, to embrace it."
"Most of the super rich believe that they deserve everything that they have, that they have in some way earned it all. And that they are fully entitled to acquire even more regardless of how much human suffering caused by basic deprivation multiplies around them."
"Working people can no longer afford to pay the tab for the limitless sense of entitlement that the ultra wealthy in America are infected with. When we say enough is enough they fundamentally can't grasp that cry because the word "enough" literally has no meaning to them. "
Infected is the word that exactly fits. It is a sickness, it warps any form of decency.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)historylovr
(1,557 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Sanders is an agitator, not a leader.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)Virtually off the charts at a state wide level for a long serving politician.That's the result of the trust the public he represents has in him - not exactly the profile of an agitator who people have had thirty years to see through him if that was all he was.
Sanders is doing an extraordinary job of building and galvanizing a large scale movement right now, he has shattered the record for individual contributions to a Presidential campaign at this stage of the cycle. You can dismiss that all as agitation, leaving aside the fact for a moment that the ability to inspire is a fundamental aspect of leadership, but I believe you are reading off of an old set of talking points, when the effort at the time was to dismiss Bernie Sanders as a "fringe candidate".
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Response to MohRokTah (Reply #46)
Name removed Message auto-removed
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)the economy is doing well
and
250 thousand is a middle class wage
why bother with him
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 8, 2016, 10:53 AM - Edit history (1)
250K per year IS the top end of upper middle class. The break off point has to be established somewhere and that is where it is placed for most purposes regarding taxes, etc.
Denying both truths is foolish.
Edited to add: Economy doing OUTSTANDING:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251983370
Even Bernie Sanders does not want to see any major tax increases on people making $250K or less.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)but you do seem to swim in the main stream - enjoy the polluted waters
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)even with your desires for economic calamity to help Sanders.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)Do you like the things that Richard Wolf suggest?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)Serious question - I want to get a feel of how deep you go?
Willing?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I'm sorry your guy cannot make hay over the economy, but oh well. We are in a stable economy that keeps getting better.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)a system that crashes often is not a healthy system
we can do better
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The very notion of a system owned by the state demonstrated it was a huge failure decades ago.
Capitalism may not be perfect, but it's the better than all other systems.
I have no common cause with socialists and communists.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)you sound young and hard in your thinking
be well
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I am a senior citizen.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)enjoy
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)enjoy.
Utopian Leftist
(534 posts)thank you for this OP.
The poor in America are desperate for help. Our backs are nearly broken. The breadlines are long, the food banks are depleted; while TV continues to promote the American Way of Life as Dallas, the reality is more like Dickens.
Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)thank you!!!
Locrian
(4,522 posts)Hell, Sanders is the only one that isn't OWNED by corporate / wallstreet power.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)At some point all the little MBA Gordon Gecko wannabes figured out that innovating, building and creating was hard work. The real profits lied in dismantling all that those who came before them had built.
Small banks, small businesses, hospitals, schools, libraries, grants, scholarships, parks, factories and communities have been sucked dry and left as empty husks at our feet. The Romneys and Rumsfelds and Freidman acolytes of this world haven't been able to create, all they know is how to destroy.
Like a parasite, they have vomited acid all over established small businesses, factories and hospitals people left as legacies, legacies that people labored a lifetime to create, to turn them into a sweet money paste they could absorb through a jutting proboscis and return to the screaming and hungry shareholders back in the nest.
And with the reality of climate change coming to fruition, there can be no doubt. They are drinking all of our milkshakes, forever.
And far from stopping them, far too many are more than happy to lend a dollar, or a hand, a life, a country or an entire race.
brooklynite
(94,461 posts)I wonder how President Cruz will deal with them?
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)K&R