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cali

(114,904 posts)
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:05 PM Jan 2016

Hillary's deep foreign policy experience

is a major reason to not vote for her. We've had ample opportunity to see how poor her judgment is- from the IWR to Honduras to Libya to Syria. She has repeated what is essentially the same error, over and over. And now she's for a no-fly zone in Syria. She reaches for the same failed policies and holds the same failed philosophies that have been disastrous.

Touting her foreign policy experience as a major accomplishment and reason to vote for her is nuts. She reaches for the hammer of military intervention with great ease.

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Hillary's deep foreign policy experience (Original Post) cali Jan 2016 OP
But she has the 'experience' to be president. pangaia Jan 2016 #1
The person with perhaps the most experience is George W. Bush highprincipleswork Jan 2016 #41
That was my point. pangaia Jan 2016 #44
Not disagreeing, only agreeing. It's a good point. highprincipleswork Jan 2016 #77
I agree 99.99% with what you said. Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2016 #71
Creative excess. A romantic extreme, not a logical matter, like so much else in how we choose. highprincipleswork Jan 2016 #78
I know. I'm sorry I said that, but it gave me an opening for my rant! Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2016 #82
Openings, connections, great new day meeting folks of like mind. Go, Bernie Go! highprincipleswork Jan 2016 #84
You got that right! Bernie over the HRH! Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2016 #87
EXCELLENT POST! I have Been Saying Incompetence, Poor Judgement, Poor Demonstrated Performance CorporatistNation Jan 2016 #93
I actually don't think she has any natural foreign policy acumen or TwilightGardener Jan 2016 #2
That's an interesting take. cali Jan 2016 #8
She grew up under a domineering, abusive & opinionated father Divernan Jan 2016 #94
But she dodged all these sniper bullets! BeanMusical Jan 2016 #110
This is exactly my main reason for being vehementally opposed to her! m-lekktor Jan 2016 #3
+1 tecelote Jan 2016 #22
$uper $ucce$$ful for the military indu$trial complex! Divernan Jan 2016 #24
Yes. Put aside the thousands and thousands killed... tecelote Jan 2016 #28
You $hould check $ander$ $upport of the military indu$trial complex over the year$. George II Jan 2016 #29
Imitation i$ the $incere$t form of flattery. Divernan Jan 2016 #55
And Bernie has essentially zero foreign policy experience. DCBob Jan 2016 #4
Try these. HerbChestnut Jan 2016 #6
can't watch those.. on a cell. .. please summerize. DCBob Jan 2016 #7
It's Bernie talking about potential long term repercussions of the 1st and 2nd Iraq War HerbChestnut Jan 2016 #9
In other words, he was right and she was wrong. Fawke Em Jan 2016 #115
Yep, but more importantly HerbChestnut Jan 2016 #120
He saw through the lies that led us to kill thousands. nt artislife Jan 2016 #15
Showing excellent judgment, even prescience. senz Jan 2016 #67
Two pilots: one who has yet to solo, and one who has made smoking holes in the ground, killing many. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #14
Perfect analogy! Divernan Jan 2016 #25
Awesome! TexasBushwhacker Jan 2016 #40
Interesting analogy but I don't agree its completely valid in this case. DCBob Jan 2016 #63
LOL! Libya, and Syria are some of the largest smokin' holes known to humankind! cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #70
Blaming Hillary for the problems in Syria and Libya is absurd. DCBob Jan 2016 #72
"We came, we saw, he died." (Hillaryous laughter follows) cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #74
I believe taking out a ruthless brutal dictator is something to cheer and be proud of. DCBob Jan 2016 #83
"The mess that followed ..." is the PERFECT example of a fucked up and skewed view of Foreign Policy cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #90
John Kerry and the UN have not given up on the "failed state" of Libya. DCBob Jan 2016 #92
Failed state says it all. cali Jan 2016 #96
But we remain on friendly terms with the despots running KSA. Ikonoklast Jan 2016 #124
Did she laugh when it was reported "we" killed Gaddafi's g'children too? bread_and_roses Jan 2016 #113
It's absurd to blame the sitting Secretary of State for the positions she took` Fawke Em Jan 2016 #116
HRC's philosophy re intl. relations: Smokin' holes and hot messes! Divernan Jan 2016 #100
Every new Pilot / President has yet to earn their wings. sorechasm Jan 2016 #76
A related question: which one would you like flying over you? thereismore Jan 2016 #118
Last weekend he was asked a foreign policy question on CNN and he started talking about.... George II Jan 2016 #31
I didn't realize climate change was primarily a domestic issue. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #34
LOL! Nice! n/t JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #47
The question had to do with the situation in the middle east, his answer was way off track. George II Jan 2016 #56
Are you talking about this quote? cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #62
facts do not work on some people SoLeftIAmRight Jan 2016 #68
And you don't agree that Climate Change is a huge, huge foreign policy Akamai Jan 2016 #52
Clearly Bernie is uncomfortable talking about foreign policy. DCBob Jan 2016 #60
Clearly, he is not. Fawke Em Jan 2016 #119
The Pentagon recognizes the impact climate change will have on foreign policy, are studying Ikonoklast Jan 2016 #125
McCain for President! earthside Jan 2016 #79
As has been said many many times.. Bernie Sanders is no Barack Obama. DCBob Jan 2016 #81
True enough. earthside Jan 2016 #88
He voted against the Irq war, and that's good enough for me. n/t eridani Jan 2016 #95
Agreed HerbChestnut Jan 2016 #5
Can anyone imagine a no fly zone in Syria, what happens if the Russians violate it Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #10
WWIII would be great for military industrial business! Divernan Jan 2016 #27
Way deeper than Bernie's. ucrdem Jan 2016 #11
The evidence is that his judgment is far better than hers cali Jan 2016 #16
Sanders, Nov. 14: "leading the world this country will rid our planet of ... ISIS." ucrdem Jan 2016 #20
Silly rabbit, you act like the president is a cage fighter demwing Jan 2016 #50
His ISIS statement suggests that he would surround himself with neocons. ucrdem Jan 2016 #54
Let's pretend for a moment that your post is honest and accurate demwing Jan 2016 #65
Foreign policy is the US president's main job per the Constitution. ucrdem Jan 2016 #73
"His statements on ISIS are frankly scary" demwing Jan 2016 #86
LMAO!!! SHE is the neocon lover, not Bernie. Fawke Em Jan 2016 #121
By voting against the Brady Bill Five times ?! No, Sanders puts down his stone in that category too uponit7771 Jan 2016 #85
If voting for the war in Iraq without bothering to read the N.I.E. is "experience" raindaddy Jan 2016 #43
Voting to fund it the same day is hypocritical. ucrdem Jan 2016 #51
There's a big difference between voting for the attack of another country without bothering to read raindaddy Jan 2016 #66
There isno conflict in those two votes. GeorgeGist Jan 2016 #102
She's been making bad decisions for years. I really do question her judgement. reformist2 Jan 2016 #12
agree. 100% (well > 100%, but you know!! LOL!!) eom Karma13612 Jan 2016 #108
She voted with all of the Republicans against 30 Democrats Ichingcarpenter Jan 2016 #13
she really DOES "think that way," she's not being snowjobbed or horsetrading MisterP Jan 2016 #17
Quo so: more of the same failed policies are NOT needed. Betty Karlson Jan 2016 #18
She's the leading Neocon-D - she'll have us in another war within 18 mos. leveymg Jan 2016 #19
She put the Dulles into Honduras. Octafish Jan 2016 #21
Here is Sanders' foreign policy experience: George II Jan 2016 #23
Yeah. I just imagined all his votes on foreign policy going back 30 years cali Jan 2016 #26
Did you oppose John Kerry for similar reasons in 2004? (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #30
That is actually Old Codger Jan 2016 #35
I did cali Jan 2016 #36
There is a huge difference -- the similarity is one bad vote karynnj Jan 2016 #38
Kerry is also considering a no-fly zone in Syria Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #45
Nothing in the link says that Kerry favors a no fly zone,not to mention the article is from October karynnj Jan 2016 #75
Yes--until he got the nomination. eridani Jan 2016 #98
Yes. That also goes for Biden in a Dem primary and anyone else who voted for the IWR. Martin Eden Jan 2016 #106
"There Was Never Any Room For Hillary In Obama's Inner Circle" Divernan Jan 2016 #32
Wow. You should post that as an op cali Jan 2016 #37
THAT is a big deal. pangaia Jan 2016 #53
Me three. Ino Jan 2016 #89
When one only has a hammer, guillaumeb Jan 2016 #33
Those who say Hillary is the greatest SOS of all time would disagree. malthaussen Jan 2016 #39
she is not even Obama's most significant SoS karynnj Jan 2016 #91
One of many reasons not to vote for her. Broward Jan 2016 #42
She's got the perfect resume demwing Jan 2016 #46
She will do more harm to this woman's health dragonfly301 Jan 2016 #48
K&R! "There are none so blind...." Duval Jan 2016 #49
Yep. If you're looking for more endless war, Hillary's your candidate. n/t 99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #57
This message was self-deleted by its author 99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #58
Hillary is not at all competent when it comes to diplomacy. JDPriestly Jan 2016 #59
And as SOS she was discussing the TPP with other heads of state and didn't know enough about it... cascadiance Jan 2016 #61
Triple Bazinga award to you for this post! Excellent! Divernan Jan 2016 #99
When I saw the title of the thread I almost laughed out a lung or two! Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2016 #64
We can trust Bernie to choose the right course of action here and abroad. senz Jan 2016 #69
Kissenger had deep  foreign policy experience AgingAmerican Jan 2016 #80
But Hillary's been to Timor-Leste!!!! Divernan Jan 2016 #97
Being consistently wrong is not the experience I'm looking for. Scuba Jan 2016 #101
From just what I read here, Hillary is getting very close to being a War Criminal andrewv1 Jan 2016 #103
No. And nothing in my op suggests that. cali Jan 2016 #109
Nobody said you did, but I am reading other stuff here.... andrewv1 Jan 2016 #112
She's a foreign policy nightmare. EndElectoral Jan 2016 #104
Agree with OP Martin Eden Jan 2016 #105
Kinda like John Dillinger bragging about his deep experience in banking. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2016 #107
LOL! Excellent! eom Karma13612 Jan 2016 #111
Ha! SammyWinstonJack Jan 2016 #123
Thankfully, this is being noticed in the heartland. Fawke Em Jan 2016 #114
Hillary would continue the same belligerent foreign policy that has persisted Maedhros Jan 2016 #117
Republicans will also claim she used the office to make money. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #122
Yay for Foreign Policy or not :( Truprogressive85 Jan 2016 #126
 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
41. The person with perhaps the most experience is George W. Bush
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:02 PM
Jan 2016

Perhaps we should just change the 22nd Amendment and get him back in there.

It matters not how much experience someone has, if they are going to make decisions that are contrary to what is needed or wanted.

Bernie Sanders has enough experience and furthermore enough leadership ability to do the job.

But most importantly, he represents my point of view most adequately, and that is why I am 150% behind him and working for him as hard as I can.

 

Elmer S. E. Dump

(5,751 posts)
71. I agree 99.99% with what you said.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:17 PM
Jan 2016

My only disagreement is with the 150 percentage. As a percentage, 100 is the best you can do. I am proudly behind Bernie 100% - there is no wiggle room. There is not even enough room to hide an silent fart.

And it has nothing to do with the way he looks, his accent, his age, or any other superficial judgement you can make about another human being. It's his ideas. It's the things that get under his skin as well as mine and yours. It's a normal reaction to what is happening. Who else is talking about these issues and has been for almost 50 years?

I'm feeling the Bern so badly, I'm about to call 9-1-1 !!!

CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
93. EXCELLENT POST! I have Been Saying Incompetence, Poor Judgement, Poor Demonstrated Performance
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 12:58 AM
Jan 2016

for some time now. Her poor judgement stems fundamentally from the overwhelming influence on her judgement by her narcissism. Bernie pretty much always takes all info into account and then makes an objective decision based on what is best for America and our people. HUGE Contrast. Makes absolutely no sense to vote for Hillary when evaluating the two objectively based on past history and performance. In other words... "Talk is Cheap!"

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
2. I actually don't think she has any natural foreign policy acumen or
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:13 PM
Jan 2016

instinct or even a philosophy. I think she just has the people she likes to listen to (Blumenthal, neocons) and they fill her head with crappy ideas. I don't really know why she was SoS, except that Obama wanted her in the tent pissing out. She wasn't exactly a leading light or deep thinker on foreign policy in the Senate.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
8. That's an interesting take.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:31 PM
Jan 2016

And the influence Blumenthal has on her is equally unfathomable and disturbing

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
94. She grew up under a domineering, abusive & opinionated father
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:23 AM
Jan 2016

As documented in both hers and Bill's memoirs. She found the safest route was to comply with his directions, not figure things out for herself. Enter subsequent father figures - dominating, opinionated men - her youth minister/Blumenthal/Kissinger/etc., and she feels comfortable and safe ceding intellectual control to them.

Her main accomplishment as SOS: "I visited more countries than any other SOS." Duh! Well that's because Obama wanted her the hell out of Washington and out of the way of those actually making key foreign policy decisions. And she shut up and went along with that so she could tout the fact that she had physically set foot in any given country as bizarre proof that brief physical presence (with suitable photo ops) somehow gave her invaluable insights re said country. As the Republicans have pointed out and will continue to point out, Clinton’s actions as secretary of state were motivated by politics, and fits with a line that GOP presidential candidate Carly Fiorina likes to use against Clinton. “Flying and traveling is an activity; it’s not an accomplishment,” Fiorina frequently says.

Among those tens of thousands of personal server emails released is one from Clinton press aide, Phillipe Reines urging her to "run up the score on total countries", i.e, visit more countries for the sake of saying she'd visited them. The subject line for the e-mail is: “100 and counting . . .”; Reines included a list of 94 countries that Clinton hadn’t yet visited for her to “choose from,” as he put it. Some of the countries had asterisks by them. “Asterisks appear next to countries you visited prior to becoming SecState, but not since — so they would count,” Reines wrote.

The e-mail was sent to Clinton’s private account, and also to her top political aides including chief of staff Cheryl Mills, deputy chiefs of staff Huma Abedin and Jake Sullivan, and scheduler Lona Valmoro.
Clinton replied to the e-mail by asking one of her staff members to print it out for her — her standard response to messages she deemed important.

Hillary Clinton’s staff urged her to visit more countries

In the months after the e-mail was sent, Clinton visited at least seven of the countries on the list, according to a Globe review of her travel schedule.

She became the first US secretary of state in 57 years to visit Laos, part of a July 2012 trip the State Department touted as a “groundbreaking visit.” On that trip she also visited Mongolia by stopping in the city of Ulaanbaatar briefly to “talk about deepening economic relations,” according to a State Department briefing.

Her next trip — to Africa — included stops in Benin, South Sudan, and Senegal, three additional countries listed by her aide. Then in September 2012, she hit two more.

She visited Brunei, and Clinton became the first US secretary of state to set foot in Timor-Leste, where she “emphasized US support for the young democracy,” according to a State Department briefing.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2015/11/30/clinton-staff-urged-her-visit-more-countries-secretary-state/zKuFUSEHQRj9QbYEa1r8hL/story.html


From 2009-2013, Mr. Reines served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Strategic Communications and Senior Communications Advisor to Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who he has worked for since 2002. In that role, Mr. Reines traveled to more than 110 countries with Secretary Clinton as part of her senior team, responsible for crafting and executing the strategic media goals of the Secretary of State.

http://bgsdc.com/team/philippe-i-reines/
As per my post #32, downthread:
I think she had very little interaction" with the president, says veteran State Department employee. "A lot of this was, you know, she would go to meetings of the NSC (national security council) when she was in town and called, but it was a very distant relationship."

The NSC sidelined Clinton at every turn—as it did other cabinet secretaries from Gates to his successors at the Pentagon, Leon Panetta and Chuck Hagel. "They would send (the defense secretary) to someplace like Botswana while they crafted North Korea policy at the White House," one former Defense Department official says.

"Obama brought her into the administration, put her in a bubble, and ignored her," says a former high-ranking diplomat. "It turned out to be a brilliant political maneuver by Obama, making it impossible for her to challenge him, unless she left the administration, and not giving her an excuse that she could resign in protest. So she was stuck."

Once she realized she would never really be a major player in Obamaland, Hillary Clinton did what she always did: adjusted her course. "She kept her head down on large issues," says a former Obama administration official. "She did a nice job of tamping down any tension between her and the White House." And she focused on her own future. With Clinton taking to the skies and traveling the world, her post at the State Department became a platform for the United States and Hillary Clinton.


http://www.businessinsider.com/no-room-for-hillary-in-obamas-inner-circle-2014-12

m-lekktor

(3,675 posts)
3. This is exactly my main reason for being vehementally opposed to her!
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:18 PM
Jan 2016

Last edited Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:11 PM - Edit history (1)

she is seriously frightening in this department.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
22. +1
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:24 PM
Jan 2016

She seems to feel a need to be as hawkish as possible even if the results are disaster.

What success can we point to in the Middle East, or elsewhere, other than so many people being killed?

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
28. Yes. Put aside the thousands and thousands killed...
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:33 PM
Jan 2016

There is quite a substantial profit enjoyed by her benefactors.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
4. And Bernie has essentially zero foreign policy experience.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:23 PM
Jan 2016

We dont really know what he will do or not do. He seldom discusses any specifics... I assume because he doesn't know any.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
9. It's Bernie talking about potential long term repercussions of the 1st and 2nd Iraq War
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:34 PM
Jan 2016

If foreign policy is about making judgement directed decisions while understanding what the long term consequences might be then Bernie is as solid as they come. I hope you take the time to check those videos out when you have an opportunity.

 

HerbChestnut

(3,649 posts)
120. Yep, but more importantly
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 03:21 PM
Jan 2016

It demonstrates that he has good foresight on these issues. I would trust him to make important foreign policy decisions over Hillary or any of the Republicans.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
14. Two pilots: one who has yet to solo, and one who has made smoking holes in the ground, killing many.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:41 PM
Jan 2016

Which one would you rather fly with? The one who's yet to earn his wings? Or the other; whose flights almost always end in disaster but always seems to walk away from and explain away the obvious smoking holes their aircraft make in the ground?

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
63. Interesting analogy but I don't agree its completely valid in this case.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:00 PM
Jan 2016

This is more accurate..

Hillary is a seasoned pilot with thousands of hours in the air and has had to fly in some very dangerous and risky situations which didn't always end flawlessly. Bernie on the other hand is a rookie and seems to be afraid of flying.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
70. LOL! Libya, and Syria are some of the largest smokin' holes known to humankind!
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:14 PM
Jan 2016

You've got part of it right though... the part about flying in some very dangerous and risky situations; Bosnia! Snipers!

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
74. "We came, we saw, he died." (Hillaryous laughter follows)
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:20 PM
Jan 2016

She sure didn't have trouble taking part of the credit for it, huh? "WE"?

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
83. I believe taking out a ruthless brutal dictator is something to cheer and be proud of.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 08:16 PM
Jan 2016

The mess that followed doesn't mean we shouldn't have participated in removing Qaddafi. Furthermore its still not clear how Libya will ultimately turn out. Sometimes it takes a period of ugly violence to bring a nation to a better place.. eg the US Civil War.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
90. "The mess that followed ..." is the PERFECT example of a fucked up and skewed view of Foreign Policy
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 10:20 PM
Jan 2016

The "mess" that followed resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people who might be drawing breath today. You say it's "not clear how Libya will turn out" as if Libya isn't a failed state. Failed. State. That's how it turned out!

The things you Hillary supporters will defend slays me, I swear to fucking God.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
92. John Kerry and the UN have not given up on the "failed state" of Libya.
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 12:35 AM
Jan 2016
http://www.voanews.com/media/video/kerry-on-libya/3101160.html

The problems are huge but there is still hope for a future there. It will take some time but I suspect they will find a way forward eventually.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
124. But we remain on friendly terms with the despots running KSA.
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 03:51 PM
Jan 2016

Who fund and export murderous religious fanatacism worldwide.

bread_and_roses

(6,335 posts)
113. Did she laugh when it was reported "we" killed Gaddafi's g'children too?
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 03:08 PM
Jan 2016

I don't know how that turned out - whether the grandchildren were killed or not - I remember it was reported but with questions about validity - probably because way back - 80's? - Gaddafi had claimed we killed one of his children or grandchildren and it turned out the child was not his .... some other child, so who cared?

What is surely indisputable is that our bombs have killed and are killing a lot of children around the world. And it sure seems that war-hawking is hardly congruent with the so-lauded "advocacy" for women and children that HRC is touted for. Just like cluster-bombs - when it's a choice between children's lives and looking "tough on terror" or whatever the day's catchword is then too bad for the kids. Bombs away!

It is also indisputable that if any other country went around bombing wherever it pleased and assassinating people it didn't like our "leaders" including Obama and HRC would be the first to call them criminals and terrorists.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
116. It's absurd to blame the sitting Secretary of State for the positions she took`
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 03:17 PM
Jan 2016

and encouraged others to take?



Her job is to advise the president. She did and was a hawkish mess. Now the region is destabilized and we're playing catch up.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
100. HRC's philosophy re intl. relations: Smokin' holes and hot messes!
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 07:09 AM
Jan 2016

Your countries are either with her or agin her. All your third world countries are belonging to Clinton Foundation to "assist" with projects aimed at benefitting the Clinton Foundation's corporate "donors".
Ya know, like road development, water and power lines, clearing out those pesky dirt farmers to provide infrastructure and space for corporate projects, PLUS di minimis education & health projects to provide dirt cheap but healthy enough labor for those factories.

sorechasm

(631 posts)
76. Every new Pilot / President has yet to earn their wings.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:23 PM
Jan 2016

We have no idea what kind of a Pilot / President they will be, given the responsibilities of 'Leader of the Free World'. The biggest tell: honesty, sincerity, integrity, responsibility, grace under pressure, respect among colleagues, etc. Who else scores as high as Bernie here?

Nice metaphor. Thanks cherokeeprogressive!

thereismore

(13,326 posts)
118. A related question: which one would you like flying over you?
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 03:20 PM
Jan 2016

Me: the guy who has not been throwing bombs.

George II

(67,782 posts)
31. Last weekend he was asked a foreign policy question on CNN and he started talking about....
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:35 PM
Jan 2016

....climate change.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
34. I didn't realize climate change was primarily a domestic issue.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:44 PM
Jan 2016

Why in the hell did we spend all that money sending Barack Obama to France then?

George II

(67,782 posts)
56. The question had to do with the situation in the middle east, his answer was way off track.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:40 PM
Jan 2016

At other times, believe it or not, Sanders has said that the growth of ISIS can be traced back to climate change!!!

He's a one-trick pony totally in over his head.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
62. Are you talking about this quote?
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:56 PM
Jan 2016

""One of the things that preceded the failure of the nation-state of Syria and the rise of ISIS was the effect of climate change and the mega-drought that affected that region, wiped out farmers, drove people to cities, created a humanitarian crisis."

 

Akamai

(1,779 posts)
52. And you don't agree that Climate Change is a huge, huge foreign policy
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:29 PM
Jan 2016

concern? Well, the CIA sure does, as do military planners.

Climate change appears responsible for the deep droughts in Syria (that impoverished so many families there), the deep, deep drought in Iran, etc.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
125. The Pentagon recognizes the impact climate change will have on foreign policy, are studying
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 04:03 PM
Jan 2016

the current ramifications and are making projections in order to form a plan and policy to deal with the massive upheaval of millions who will be displaced.


Climate change is soon to be the biggest driver of foreign policy worldwide; people are already working to shape policy which will deal with the inevitable consequences.

earthside

(6,960 posts)
79. McCain for President!
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:44 PM
Jan 2016

The Repuglican charge against Barack Obama in 2008: "We dont really know what he will do or not do. He seldom discusses any specifics... I assume because he doesn't know any."

Frankly, I think Pres. Obama has done just fine.

Uncle Joe

(58,107 posts)
10. Can anyone imagine a no fly zone in Syria, what happens if the Russians violate it
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:34 PM
Jan 2016

do we shoot their jets down and risk WWIII or ignore it and lose credibility with our allies?

Thanks for the thread, cali.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
27. WWIII would be great for military industrial business!
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:30 PM
Jan 2016

I'm just waiting for her to propose privatizing the VA hospitals.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
11. Way deeper than Bernie's.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:35 PM
Jan 2016

Orating to an empty chamber is a far cry from actually conducting foreign policy. As to whether she'll continue to support hard line approaches when the buck stops with her remains to be seen. I tend to think she won't. No idea what kind of quagmires Bernie would get into.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
16. The evidence is that his judgment is far better than hers
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:42 PM
Jan 2016

Do you support a no-fly zone in Syria? Do you support military intervention for regime change?

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
20. Sanders, Nov. 14: "leading the world this country will rid our planet of ... ISIS."
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:57 PM
Jan 2016

First words out of his mouth at the 2nd debate:

Together, leading the world this country will rid our planet of this barbarous organization called ISIS.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-debate-transcript-clinton-sanders-omalley-in-iowa/


No thanks.
 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
50. Silly rabbit, you act like the president is a cage fighter
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:24 PM
Jan 2016

Th e obvious truth is that Hillary and Bernie will surround themselves with trusted advisors. I trust Bernie's judgement to pick his advisor well. Infinitely more than I trust Hillary's.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
65. Let's pretend for a moment that your post is honest and accurate
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:04 PM
Jan 2016

why the hell would you see Hillary as the better candidate?

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
73. Foreign policy is the US president's main job per the Constitution.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:19 PM
Jan 2016

Hillary at least will be able get into the weeds and foresee consequences of lousy decisions as she's had to defend a few she was party to, namely Libya and Egypt. Soft power was a neocon innovation rolled out under Bush II and inherited by PBO. On the face of it looked squeaky clean, but the reality turned out to be less disastrous than full-on intervention but seriously harmful nonetheless. So having taken heat for intervention and intervention light, my strong suspicion is that she'll avoid regime change. Bernie by contrast is a babe in the woods and has a lot of catching up to do. His statements on ISIS are frankly scary.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
86. "His statements on ISIS are frankly scary"
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 08:28 PM
Jan 2016

That's not just illogical (Hillary has committed serious Foreign Policy blunders, therefore she is less likely to commit additional serious Foreign Policy blunders?? WTF?), it's unmitigated bullshit.

Here's Bernie's words on ISIS, Syris, and Iraq. Other can read, and decide for themselves whether Sanders is a neocon(!), and whether his statements on ISIS are "frankly scary." As for me, I've spent enough time on your foolish post. I'm done.

Invasion of Iraq led to ISIS; Hillary voted to invade

Q: You're saying Secretary Clinton, who was then Senator Clinton, voted for the Iraq war. And are you making a direct link between her vote for that or and what's happening now for ISIS?

SANDERS: I don't think any sensible person would disagree that the invasion of Iraq led to the massive level of instability we are seeing right now. I think that was one of the worst foreign policy blunders in the more than history of the United States.
Source: 2015 CBS Democratic primary debate in Iowa , Nov 14, 2015

Form Muslim-led coalition to defeat ISIS
Q: You opposed Obama's new decision to put Special Operations boots on the ground in Syria. But the threat seems to be expanding, not receding. How would you counter it?

SANDERS: What the president is trying to do is to thread a very difficult needle. He's trying to defeat ISIS. He's trying to get rid of this horrendous dictator, Assad. But at the same time, he doesn't want our troops stuck on the ground. And I agree with that. But I am maybe a little bit more conservative on this than he is. I worry that once we get sucked into this, once some of our troops get killed and once maybe a plane gets shot down, that we send more in and more in. But I will say this. ISIS must be defeated primarily by the Muslim nations in that region. America can't do it all. And we need an international coalition. Russia should be part of it--U.K., France, the entire world--supporting Muslim troops on the ground, fighting for the soul of Islam and defeating this terrible ISIS organization.
Source: ABC This Week 2015 interview by Martha Raddatz , Nov 8, 2015

Diplomacy and coalition-building before unilateral action
Q: You were asked about when you would authorize the use of force. You went on to say, "I do not support the U.S. getting involved in unilateral action." So there are no circumstances where you would authorize unilateral action?

SANDERS: I didn't say in all circumstances. But I think that there's a lesson to be learned from Iraq and Afghanistan, then what a great military power like the United States is about is trying to use diplomacy before war and working with other countries rather than doing it alone. At the end of the day, a military coalition is what will succeed, not the US doing it alone.
Source: ABC This Week 2015 interview by Martha Raddatz , Oct 18, 2015

Syria is a quagmire within a quagmire; don't get involved
Q: What to do in Syria?

SANDERS: Well, let's understand that when we talk about Syria, you're talking about a quagmire in a quagmire. You're talking about groups of people trying to overthrow Assad, other groups of people fighting ISIS. You're talking about people who are fighting ISIS using their guns to overthrow Assad, and vice versa. I will do everything that I can to make sure that the U.S. does not get involved in another quagmire like we did in Iraq, the worst foreign policy blunder in the history of this country. We should be putting together a coalition of Arab countries who should be leading the effort. We should be supportive, but I do not support American ground troops in Syria.
Source: 2015 CNN Democratic primary debate in Las Vegas , Oct 13, 2015

Support force only when we are threatened & have coalition
"When President Clinton said, "let's stop ethnic cleansing in Kosovo," I voted for that. I voted to make sure that Osama bin Laden was held accountable in Afghanistan. When our country is threatened, or when our allies are threatened, I believe that we need coalitions to come together to address the major crises of this country. I do not support the United States getting involved in unilateral action."
Source: 2015 CNN Democratic primary debate in Las Vegas , Oct 13, 2015

Stop ISIS, but only with an international & Arab coalition
According to a February 2015 Gallup poll, Americans consider the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant--abbreviated as ISIS or ISIL?--and the international terrorism they support to be the greatest threat to the United States' vital interests. These are the main planks of Bernie's position on ISIS:

• A Global Threat That Must Be Stopped: ISIS is an incredibly dangerous, powerful, and barbaric organization. For the sake of people in the Middle East and all over the world, they must be stopped.

• We Must Learn From the War In Iraq: In terms of lives lost, injured soldiers, monetary costs, and lasting effects in the region, the Iraq War was a disaster. We need to learn from it so we don't make the same mistakes twice.

• A Coalition is Required: The United States cannot and should not lead the effort to defeat ISIS on its own. There are enough capable military powers in the region, and the coalition should be led by Middle Eastern allies.
Source: 2016 presidential campaign website FeelTheBern.org, "Issues" , Sep 5, 2015

Get Saudis & regional powers involved with fighting ISIS
Q: You have warned that you think ISIS is dangerous & needs to be stopped.

SANDERS: ISIS is a brutal, awful, dangerous army and they have got to be defeated. But this is not just an American problem. This is an international crisis. This is a regional crisis. And I think the people of America are getting sick and tired of the world and the region, Saudi Arabia and the other countries saying "hey, we don't have to do anything about it. The American taxpayer, the American soldiers will do all the work for us." Most people don't know is that Saudi Arabia is the 4th largest defense spender in the world, more than the U.K., more than France. They have an army which is probably seven times larger than ISIS. They have a major air force.

Q: Sure. But they have shown no sign at all that they want to go in and neither have the Jordanians.

SANDERS: The question that we have got to ask is why are the nations in the region not more actively involved? Why don't they see this as a crisis situation?
Source: CNN SOTU 2014 interview series: 2016 presidential hopefuls , Oct 12, 2014

Arm the Peshmerga against ISIS, as international effort
Q: The role so far that the US is playing against ISIS, is that just about right?

SANDERS: No. It has to be an international effort.

Q: Would you support arming the Peshmerga, the Kurdish forces?

SANDERS: Yes. I think we should arm them--even that's a difficult issue to make sure that the people that we arm today don't turn against us tomorrow. But I think providing arms for those people who we can trust and providing air support is in fact something we should be doing.

Q: Would it be confined to the Peshmerga? I know that you voted against arming and training Syrian rebels. So is there a difference to you between the Peshmerga and the Syrian rebels?

SANDERS: We have been at war for 12 years. We have spent trillions of dollars. We have 500,000 young men and women who have come up--come home with PTSD and TBI. What I do not want and I fear very much is the US getting sucked into a quagmire and being involved in perpetual warfare year after year after year. That is my fear.
Source: CNN SOTU 2014 interview series: 2016 presidential hopefuls , Oct 12, 2014

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_War_+_Peace.htm

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
85. By voting against the Brady Bill Five times ?! No, Sanders puts down his stone in that category too
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 08:28 PM
Jan 2016

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
43. If voting for the war in Iraq without bothering to read the N.I.E. is "experience"
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:06 PM
Jan 2016

it's not the kind of experience I want.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
66. There's a big difference between voting for the attack of another country without bothering to read
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:06 PM
Jan 2016

the intelligence report and a vote to fund the defense dept for the year... Which includes more than just the war in Iraq which wasn't in the budget.... and there's nothing hypocritical about it.

GeorgeGist

(25,294 posts)
102. There isno conflict in those two votes.
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 09:48 AM
Jan 2016

I have to wonder about the critical thinking skills of those who think there is. And of the candidate they support.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
12. She's been making bad decisions for years. I really do question her judgement.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:36 PM
Jan 2016

I do give her credit for admitting certain votes she made were 'mistakes', but why should we elect someone who keeps getting the important votes wrong, when we could have someone who was correct on so much right from the beginning?

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
13. She voted with all of the Republicans against 30 Democrats
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:36 PM
Jan 2016

to continue the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas
then as Sec. of State sold them to the Saudis that are now using them in civilian areas in Yemen

She voted with the republicans and against Democrats

Save the children my ass........... Iraqi vote wrong
Horrendous wrong , wrong wrong .......


http://www.democraticunderground.com/128093604

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
17. she really DOES "think that way," she's not being snowjobbed or horsetrading
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:47 PM
Jan 2016

a lot of it is "now that those creationist dummies are out of Foggy Bottom, *this* time we've learned our lessons, THIS time we'll make up for our support of dictators like Mubarak/Qaddafi/Saddam/"
so the insistence is for multilateral lightweight proxy wars with no boots on the ground; we can handle the militants, after all we have top experts on the ground!
it's the same as their approach to politics--we don't NEED the old politics' donors, the dying roughneck industries and lecherous Mad Men execs and Good Ol' Boy oillionaires: we instead will have smart, PC-friendly rising sectors--IT, Hollywood, Wall Street

and of course Honduras (though Lanny Davis was the key motivator there)

I read or coined the phrase "Clinton bragging about foreign policy experience is like Christie bragging about his transit experience"

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
18. Quo so: more of the same failed policies are NOT needed.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 04:51 PM
Jan 2016

The status quo is undesirable, except for a few priviledged men and women. Fuck them, and fuck the status quo.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
21. She put the Dulles into Honduras.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:00 PM
Jan 2016
[font size="1"]"Glorious Victory" by Diego Rivera (on Guatemala and CIA PB/SUCCESS - 1954)[/font size]



Hillary Clinton’s Honduran Disgrace

By Matthew Rothschild
The Progressive, March 5, 2010

Hillary Clinton continues with her hawkish ways, making Obama’s foreign policy less distinguishable from Bush’s every day.

She just met with Honduran President Pepe Lobo, she’s notified Congress that the Obama administration is restoring aid to Honduras, and she’s urging Latin American nations to recognize the Lobo government in Tegucigalpa.

The democratic opposition in Honduras boycotted lobo’s election, since he’s allied with the forces that overthrew Manuel Zelaya last June.

But for the longest time, Hillary Clinton stubbornly refused to call the June takeover a “coup,” even though her boss, the president of the United States, immediately denounced it as such.

SNIP..

“Other countries of the region say that they want to wait a while,” she said on her Latin American trip. “I don’t know what they’re waiting for.”

CONTINUED...

http://progressive.org/wx030510.html

Don't know about the rest of DU, but count me as one who's long tired of "money trumps peace" foreign and domestic policies. -- Octafish
 

Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
35. That is actually
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:46 PM
Jan 2016

History and has diddly squat to do with the current debate, but pretty typical of a losing argument..LOL

karynnj

(59,474 posts)
38. There is a huge difference -- the similarity is one bad vote
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:53 PM
Jan 2016

Yet Kerry spoke out against rushing to war before it started in January 2003. In fact, until mid 2003, he was regularly labeled antiwar by the media.

However, the rest of their records - Kerry, almost alone taking on the Reagan administrations's illegal arming of the Contras - while the Clintons, then of Arkansas essentially backing helping the Contras along with many other Democrats through Kerry and Berman calling the Honduras coup a coup - while HRC assured Republican Senators that the US would not fight it.

Kerry's vote is a blot on an otherwise excellent record of seeking to use diplomacy, not force.

You likely know that Cali did not support Kerry in the 2004 primaries - and that vote was likely one reason. In fall 2002, Kerry was a strong voice to avoid war, but in the end, after getting some changes - that in reality amounted to nothing real given that Bush was dishonest -- he voted for the resolution promising to speak out if Bush did not follow through as he said.

karynnj

(59,474 posts)
75. Nothing in the link says that Kerry favors a no fly zone,not to mention the article is from October
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:21 PM
Jan 2016

before the Russians were there. In addition to nothing coming from Kerry, the only thing said is that he asked people to look into it.

Have you ever heard the phrase "options on the table". This was something pushed by many people publicly, including HRC and McCain. The article suggests that Kerry wanted it investigated and then discussed - sounds prudent to me. This is a common occurrence where the media tried to push a story - here that Kerry was not in agreement with Obama.

Yet, from comments made - in public - from Kerry's own mouth, he argued that there was no military solution - they needed a political one and he worked extremely hard to get the UN resolution that passed the Security Council. (and no - it was NOT a resolution that HRC worked out in a long day in Geneva in 2011/2012. That resolution was vetoed by both China and Russia. ) In addition, Kerry pushed back several times - before Congress, to the media and in foreign countries, on the idea of the US more aggressively going after Assad. What is happening is that some in the media were attempting to use Kerry - because he has credibility - to suggest he agrees with HRC.

Not to mention, he has argued for at least a year and a half that the priority is fighting ISIS and on that, they were deconflicting with Syria and Iran on attacks on ISIS -- and later Russia.

Not to mention that you ignore the main thing I wrote - to my knowledge, Cali was NOT for Kerry in the primary. She has not said she won't support HRC in the general election ... which is where she supported JK.

PS - Kerry likely avoided a war with the Iran deal, eliminated 600 tons of chemical weapons in Syria, and was a key player in getting the Paris climate change agreement. The two issues that run through his long career are war/Peace and environment. As SoS, even if he resigned tomorrow, he has been a very consequential SoS on both issues. These are things that his long history presaged him having incredible commitment and skill to accomplish.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
98. Yes--until he got the nomination.
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:47 AM
Jan 2016

You might remember that he lost, in part because he was tagged as a flip-flopper. Clinton was till defending the war in 2008, and only recently has said her vote was a "mistake." Lots of ammo for Repukes there.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/03/24/483380/-Clinton-still-believes-in-the-Iraq-War

"In the last five years, our soldiers have done everything we asked of them and more. They were asked to remove Saddam Hussein from power and bring him to justice and they did. They were asked to give the Iraqi people the opportunity for free and fair elections and they did. They were asked to give the Iraqi government the space and time for political reconciliation, and they did. So for every American soldier who has made the ultimate sacrifice for this mission, we should imagine carved in stone: 'They gave their life for the greatest gift one can give to a fellow human being, the gift of freedom.'

Martin Eden

(12,801 posts)
106. Yes. That also goes for Biden in a Dem primary and anyone else who voted for the IWR.
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 12:48 PM
Jan 2016

General election is different. I travelled to Ohio to GOTV for Kerry in 2004.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
32. "There Was Never Any Room For Hillary In Obama's Inner Circle"
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:39 PM
Jan 2016

Last edited Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:37 PM - Edit history (2)

I think she had very little interaction" with the president, says veteran State Department employee. "A lot of this was, you know, she would go to meetings of the NSC (national security council) when she was in town and called, but it was a very distant relationship."

The NSC sidelined Clinton at every turn—as it did other cabinet secretaries from Gates to his successors at the Pentagon, Leon Panetta and Chuck Hagel. "They would send (the defense secretary) to someplace like Botswana while they crafted North Korea policy at the White House," one former Defense Department official says.

"Obama brought her into the administration, put her in a bubble, and ignored her," says a former high-ranking diplomat. "It turned out to be a brilliant political maneuver by Obama, making it impossible for her to challenge him, unless she left the administration, and not giving her an excuse that she could resign in protest. So she was stuck."

Once she realized she would never really be a major player in Obamaland, Hillary Clinton did what she always did: adjusted her course. "She kept her head down on large issues," says a former Obama administration official. "She did a nice job of tamping down any tension between her and the White House." And she focused on her own future. With Clinton taking to the skies and traveling the world, her post at the State Department became a platform for the United States and Hillary Clinton.

http://www.businessinsider.com/no-room-for-hillary-in-obamas-inner-circle-2014-12

In this excerpt from Clinton, Inc: The Audacious Rebuilding Of A Political Machine, Daniel Halper, a political writer and online editor at The Weekly Standard, compiles candid interviews with former Clinton administration aides, friends, and enemies to reveal the hardened relationship between Hillary Clinton and President Obama.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
33. When one only has a hammer,
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:39 PM
Jan 2016

every problem is a nail.

And when a country spends a trillion dollars a year on a war machine, the machine must be used. Her foreign policy would make many voters willing to vote for her. Most of them Republicans.

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
39. Those who say Hillary is the greatest SOS of all time would disagree.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 05:58 PM
Jan 2016

I've asked many times on what this assessment is based, but I have never gotten an answer. Length of service does not expertise or capability make: after all, George Bush was POTUS for longer than Hillary was SOS. But who would want him running the country again? (Jeb, maybe)

-- Mal

karynnj

(59,474 posts)
91. she is not even Obama's most significant SoS
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 10:45 PM
Jan 2016

Iran deal and the Paris Climate change agreement alone make that so.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
46. She's got the perfect resume
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:16 PM
Jan 2016

But if you've ever been responsible for hiring someone, you get over resume awe quite quickly. I'm much more interested in what she's accomplished than in a list of job titles she's collected.

dragonfly301

(399 posts)
48. She will do more harm to this woman's health
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:22 PM
Jan 2016

by sending my sons off to war. I trust Bernie's judgement on military issues far more than Hillary.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
57. Yep. If you're looking for more endless war, Hillary's your candidate. n/t
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:47 PM
Jan 2016

Last edited Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Response to cali (Original post)

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
61. And as SOS she was discussing the TPP with other heads of state and didn't know enough about it...
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 06:53 PM
Jan 2016

... to take any kind of firm stance on it to "evolve" from her earlier position that the TPP was the "gold standard of trade treaties" to switch gears and stand against it right before the most recent debate? How is her position of being nebulous and many times for many of these disastrous treaties being so good on foreign policy when these "free trade" policies with other countries have DESTROYED our economy and jobs.

Her nebulous stances on TPP, etc. now is very similar to how Obama also nebulously said that he'd "renegotiate NAFTA and other free trade treaties", which made it sound like he'd take them down, when in fact he prioritized TPP and other free trade treaties getting passed more than any other legislation during his administration to the point of him working with Republicans to get fast track passed. I suspect we'd see the same thing under Clinton, and that is probably going through the minds of many Americans, no matter what party they are in now.

Not to mention she avoids talking about H-1B or other guest worker programs more than just about any candidate in either party this election cycle when her earlier stance on this was firmly on the side of those who want to outsource American jobs to them for cheap labor.

This is good foreign policy?

NO!!!!!!

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
69. We can trust Bernie to choose the right course of action here and abroad.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 07:11 PM
Jan 2016

Hillary's record is very weak. She blunders -- and people get hurt, people die, as a result.

I could not trust her as Commander in Chief.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
97. But Hillary's been to Timor-Leste!!!!
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:45 AM
Jan 2016

Among those countries she set foot in to establish a record for greatest number of countries visited by a SOS, was the like of Timor-Leste.

I mean, Timor-Leste, for chrissakes? 1/2 an island in the Indonesian archipelago? Slightly larger than Connecticut? Population - 800,000??? Big whoop!!! Let's all put that on our travel bucket list!

In the Lesser Sunda Islands at the eastern end of the Indonesian archipelago; note - Timor-Leste includes the eastern half of the island of Timor, the Oecussi (Ambeno) region on the northwest portion of the island of Timor, and the islands of Pulau Atauro and Pulau Jaco. https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/tt.html


And she counts that quickie meeting with some official at the Ulaanbaatar airport stopover en route to some other country and bob's your uncle, she's a foreign affairs EXPERT on Mongolia! One hour conversation on "deepening economic relations", i.e., "hey, the Clinton Foundation has corporate "donors" looking for sweatshop cheap labor. Give Bill a call." Does this sound like a great episode for VEEP or what!?!
Note to self - duck into airport in case of sniper fire!

andrewv1

(168 posts)
103. From just what I read here, Hillary is getting very close to being a War Criminal
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 11:39 AM
Jan 2016

Disgusting....

And if Bernie is not the Nominee, there will be a Third Party run hopefully with the Democratic Progressive side supporting it.

Trump will do his own thing, so it's possible there might be four candidates which might have a realistic shot @ the White House.

andrewv1

(168 posts)
112. Nobody said you did, but I am reading other stuff here....
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 02:48 PM
Jan 2016

& starting to see a Dick Cheney/Henry Kissinger narrative here that's getting pretty bad.

Martin Eden

(12,801 posts)
105. Agree with OP
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 12:45 PM
Jan 2016

Her foreign policy record is the first among several reasons I won't support Hillary Clinton in a Democratic primary.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
114. Thankfully, this is being noticed in the heartland.
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 03:12 PM
Jan 2016
The problem is that while preening her hawkish feathers, Clinton appears loath to own the problems that have sprung from the policies she once pushed.

Here’s what Clinton said on the question of Libya:

“The United States and our international partners are also proud of our own contributions. When (former Libyan Prime Minster Muammar) Gaddafi threatened Benghazi, we assembled an unprecedented coalition that included NATO and Arab countries, and acted quickly to prevent a massacre. We sought and won local, regional and international support, including the backing of the U.N. and the Arab League. And after deploying our unique military capabilities at the outset, the United States played a key role in a genuinely shared effort as our allies stepped up. As time went on, our coalition grew even stronger.”

Well, yes. But then what happened? Did the Department of State step in to stabilize Libya when terrorists began to take over? Did the Department of State work to shore up the Libyan government of which Clinton was so proud? Did the Department of State step in to own the spiraling terrorism problem of which Benghazi was only a part? No!


Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article53558165.html#storylink=cpy
 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
117. Hillary would continue the same belligerent foreign policy that has persisted
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 03:17 PM
Jan 2016

for the last thirty years through multiple Presidential Administrations.

We must abandon that foreign policy.

Truprogressive85

(900 posts)
126. Yay for Foreign Policy or not :(
Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:03 PM
Jan 2016
You think after the Iraq war vote HRc would be more prudent when it comes foreign intervention

but oh on lets set Libya on fire


What was the purpose of Libya ??


Reading the FOIA state depart email makes on wonder :


https://www.foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_DecWebClearedMeta/31-C1/DOC_0C05779612/C05779612.pdf
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