About Jane Sanders -

[hedgehog]

1. It's hard to make a scandal out of something that takes more than a few words to explain. I've tried to figure out what the scandal is, but my eyes glaze over halfway through any explanations.

2. Whitewater; or people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[jeff47]

1. It's interesting the Clinton fans first declare spouses off-limits

then try and create a scandal around Jane Sanders.

Flinging shit at Jane Sanders guarantees Bill Clinton is not off-limits.

[one_voice]

9. Bill Clinton is not off-limits

Where have you been?

[NurseJackie]

22. Based on the attacks on Bill, the precedent has now been set ...

... so it seems odd for either side to complain at this point. Bernie's followers definitely opened the door on this one. Apparently everyone is now "fair game", eh?

... for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
    Galatians 6 : 7

[jeff47]

24. If you don't want that to be the precedent, you have to not follow that precedent.

If you're happy with that precedent, then fire away but don't complain when people bring up Bill.

[NurseJackie]

25. Actually, I haven't attacked Jane. (So I presume that all the "you" references ...

... are meant as a generic "you guys" or "you Hillary supporters".)

It doesn't matter who complains about what, it won't matter if the complaints and predictable accusations of hypocrisy ensue ... the attacks will continue regardless. So... Let 'er rip, boys! Have at it! Yee-haw!

[jeff47]

27. Yes, "you must" has become vernacular for "one must".

It doesn't matter who complains about what, it won't matter if the complaints and predictable accusations of hypocrisy ensue ... the attacks will continue regardless. So... Let 'er rip, boys! Have at it! Yee-haw!

I'm reminded of this: "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

One either has convictions, or one doesn't.

[NurseJackie]

33. I assumed that to be the case ...

... although the interpretation of "you" has been interpreted by juries quite literally.

One either has convictions, or one doesn't.

I'm not inclined to do the research to discover "who fired the first shot" ... it's probably possible to do, but who has the time? (Who actually cares enough to even invest the time?*) I suspect I know what the likely answer would be, but it's possible that I'm wrong.

In any case, none of this matters. Tit for tat over and over. It's just a bunch of anonymous users on a website bickering and sniping. It won't change anything.





*No, that's not a challenge or a dare. Seriously. I'm just pontificating.

[KittyWampus]

2. #1. Clinton's never held themselves up as paragons of virtue. #2. Jane's early severance package

surely puts her into the 1%. And he hired his family, so nepotism is part of his past too.

But BS'ers will never stop pretending Sanders is an "outsider" who only speaks the truth and is above it all

He attacks PAC's but then thanks one when they spend money on his behalf

He talks about the MIC but loves the F-35's

He speaks out of both sides of his mouth- Bill C's behavior was disgraceful- but I'm running against Hillary

Hires a guy to deal with PoC outreach and then denies an apology when his guy issues one

Fires staff who stole data from his competitor's and then files a lawsuit

Couldn't be bothered raising funds to get OTHER Democrats elected

I could go on with examples from the last several months, but BS'ers will just ignore it all or make excuses.

The more I hear from his and his campaign and supporters, the less I actually like him. And at the start of the primary, I liked Sanders a great deal.

[artislife]

4. So you start your argument with Bill never promised to be virtuous...

This is truly the fun part of the downward cycle of the Clinton candidacy and reputations.

the death knoll.

[KittyWampus]

5. And you tacitly admit Sanders pretends to be virtuous and isn't

[artislife]

12. Only in your mind, kitty, only in the recesses of your mind. nt

[KittyWampus]

38. I proved my statement with facts. LOLZ

[Fawke Em]

23. No human is perfect.

But, Jane's severance package doesn't bother me very much because I know that educators have contracts. This was probably built in. I've seen it referred to here as a "golden parachute," which is laughable. Most golden parachutes are several million and stock options. This is more of a stainless steel fireman's net.

And nepotism. Yeah. It happens. It's not ideal, but Jane is qualified for the boards she's served on and for running her husband's office. She's has a PhD in leadership studies in politics and education. The biggest issue would be if she mismanaged that office and it doesn't appear she did.

If I promised only to vote for perfect human beings, I'd be screwed.

However, I can promise to vote for the MOST virtuous of the group and be OK choosing Bernie over anyone else running.

[KittyWampus]

40. It's never a "big deal" when it's Bernie Sanders. That's the point. IOKIYABS

It's hypocrisy over and over again on so many issues all the while pretending to be above it all.

[stonecutter357]

7. +1

[MeNMyVolt]

11. Well said. +1

[Armstead]

16. Face it -- Bernies Big Sin was interrupring Clinton's coronation

middle class.

[KittyWampus]

41. No, the issue is Sanders is an ideologue supported mostly by other ideologues

[Armstead]

44. I'm an ideoologue

I'm a radically moderate liberal/progressive.

But compared to the corporate loving segment of the "centrist" Democratic Party today, that makes me a screaming leftist ideologue.

Same applies to many other people.

[thereismore]

3. Just as polling bears bad news for HRC, personal attacks on Jane Sanders are up. Also,

the gun voting record is very "hot" right now. HRC is bound to make a stupid comment about Bernie just like she did about Barack Obama in 2008 and then it's all over.

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. Attacking Bernie isn't going to work. People in this country are sick to death of slash and burn

politics and they sure as hell aren't going to like attacks on the most HONEST, TRUSTWORTHY, ETHICAL AND AUTHENTIC candidate to run in decades. And going after that man's wife is only going to solidify his support. The Internet will explode, so HRH and her operatives had better be careful. If they want the shit to hit the fan on their less than ethical candidate and her husband, Bernie will accommodate them and so will his supporters. This isn't Bernie's first rodeo.

This was expected though. They know she's going to lose. The PUMAS pulled the same garbage against Obama and Michelle. The thing is, Bernie won't be as nice as Obama was about it. He knows their game and won't play and he's not afraid of the Clinton machine or TPTB.

Peace
Love
Bernie

[KittyWampus]

42. Slash and burn? Like Sanders making a disgusting comment about Bill Clinton?

And then PRETENDING to take the high road. LOL!

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. Pfffft...like answering a question someone in his audience asked. Now he's not allowed to answer a

direct question because you and HRH operatives don't like the answer? And he's allowed to have an opinion. It's not Bernie's fault Bill Clinton couldn't leave his pants zipped up. He said "I'm running against Hillary, not Bill." WTF more do you want?


It's unfortunate HRH is going to lose, but Bernie supporters are not going to allow your slash and burn GARBAGE to go unanswered. It didn't work when aimed at Obama and it won't work this time.


TOLEDO, Iowa – Confronted by a questioner upset over President Bill Clinton’s relationship with Monica Lewinsky, Sen. Bernie Sanders said he would avoid “mudslinging” and focus on policy differences instead.

“It seems to me like she isn’t qualified to be the president,” the man told Sanders at a town hall, citing the affair, which led to her husband’s unsuccessful impeachment.

“Look, Hillary Clinton is not Bill Clinton,” Sanders responded. “What Bill Clinton did, I think we can all acknowledge was totally, totally, totally disgraceful … but I’m running against Hillary Clinton, I’m not running against Bill Clinton.”



http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-lewinsky-affair-im-not-running-against-bill-clinton

[azmom]

51. The outrage over Bernie's answer is

Laughable.

[KittyWampus]

53. Zero reason to make a negative judgmental comment. ZERO. Or is Sanders unable

to filter out the rightwing garbage from his rhetoric?

And Sanders won't win.

He will crash and BERN when he reaches the buzz saw outside the lily white states he might win.

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. It's not RW garbage. BILL CLINTON COULDN'T KEEP HIS ZIPPER ZIPPED UP. FACT.

That's not Bernie's fault. And yes he will win. Not all AA hate Bernie like you and your cohorts do. Truth hurts, I know.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[demwing]

18. Clinton is often her own, greatest opponent

And I've been waiting for her to toss her 2nd hat in the ring

[jeff47]

26. The insane thing is she's talking up gun control when her problems are IA and NH.

NH is the "Live free or die" state. IA is a little more receptive, but has a lot of gun owners for what most would consider "legitimate" reasons from rural life (gotta protect the livestock, long response time from police, etc)

This is not fertile ground for gaining votes via gun control. Doubly so for lying about gun control records.

I guess the disconnect here is the Clinton campaign is all about Clinton the person. Claims like "Most qualified ever!!!" that don't stand up to scrutiny but are intended to build up Clinton the person while ignoring policy.

They don't seem to realize Sanders supporters are supporting him not because of who he is, but because of the policies he supports. They're in yet another bubble, assuming everyone is like them. Just like 2008.

[thereismore]

46. Good point. Her campaign just isn't clicking.

Who'd think this election will be about issues. Bill Clinton might have: "It's the economy, stupid."

[notadmblnd]

6. She overstated donation estimates on a loan app for a land purchase

on behalf of the college she was working for. Donations fell short of those estimates. Now people are accusing her doing the same thing as Wall Street did to the 99% and accusing her of fraud.

Jane Sanders overstated donation amounts in a bank application for a $6.7 million loan that was used by the college to purchase a prime 33-acre property on Lake Champlain in 2010

The school paid $10 million for the land,

Members of the college’s board of trustees have never publicly explained why Sanders was asked to leave, but former trustee Robin Lloyd told Seven Days that Sanders’ difficulty meeting fundraising goals was a factor in her resignation. Greg Guma, who covered Sanders departure for VTDigger, reported that former trustee Jonathan Leopold was unhappy with her fundraising just days before her resignation was announced in September 2011.

Leopold never saw the actual signed pledge agreements, but he believes “the representations that were made at the time were made in good faith.”

“In hindsight a problem like this is an orphan, and there are lots of people who want to lay it at the feet of a specific person,” Leopold said.

Leopold emphasized that other members of the administration were also responsible for the capital campaign’s failure and a weak economy was also a factor.

He offered no concrete reason for Sanders being asked to resign, saying only that personally he “felt it was time for a change.”

http://vtdigger.org/2015/09/13/jane-sanders-overstated-donation-amounts-in-loan-application-for-burlington-college/

It doesn't appear that the bank suffered a loss on the deal, if someone knows different, please post

[hedgehog]

8. You mean, there's no there, there? Shocked, shocked I am.

[artislife]

13. I remember someone else having woes with money around 2008

and the president elect asked us to forgive her and her debt.

I did neither, by the way.

[Agschmid]

28. Lol, not shocked.

[artislife]

30. Good, I worry about your stress levels. nt

[Agschmid]

31. Thank god someone does.

[artislife]

32. Better take it easy, it is going the way of 2008. nt

[Agschmid]

34. I'm good. I'll keep spending my time out canvassing and supporting my candidate.

But should she not make it don't worry I won't abandon the party, I'll be out working for Bernie just as hard.

I'm not one of those people who would hand the republicans a win by not voting or being involved.

Just isn't my thing.

[artislife]

36. Glad you have a plan B. nt

[KittyWampus]

43. Sad you resort to personal attacks.

[artislife]

45. No, me and Aggie have had some good times together

We have had some real exchanges, talked about the photos, agreed to disagree.

Unlike us.

[Scuba]

10. Even i

... head and shoulders more ethical than Bernie's primary opponent.

[Goblinmonger]

14. Somebody can't alert for 24 hours

FWIW, I was #5.

On Mon Jan 11, 2016, 11:43 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

About Jane Sanders -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251994347

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"2. Whitewater; or people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

Oh look, more right wing attacks on Democrats on DU. Disruptive and inappropriate.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jan 11, 2016, 11:51 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is an opinion that should not be hidden. Opinions are what DU is about.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Without a little sparring DU would be a very dull place.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Well that's the most idiotic alert I've seen in a while. Thanks for that, I guess.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a ridiculous alert. Please, get a hobby.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[fleur-de-lisa]

15. LOL!

I was #6.

[Goblinmonger]

20. I almost went with "ridiculous"

[Warren Stupidity]

19. The new theory from camp weathervane is that

all criticism of The Clintons is rightwing and should be banned from du.

[Goblinmonger]

21. Makes total sense

[CoffeeCat]

35. When they make that point

all they do is draw attention to how hard it would be for her to win a general election.

Their argument spotlights the fact it's not just Republicans who dislike the Clinton scandals, policies and politics. Many Democrats do as well. There is a general dislike for her, outside of the inner circle. And when you're polling at about 10 percent with Independents, that makes a pathway to the Presidency against any Republican candidate, nearly impossible.

Hillary is not our nominee. Bernie is not our nominee. We're battling it out within our party. Both candidates are fair game.

[CoffeeCat]

29. It's here!! It's here!!

Take cover everyone!! We were all warned!!! This is the horrific, blood-curdling vetting process that Clinton fans have been warning us about for months!!!

Run for your lives!!!!

[UglyGreed]

37. ...

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Mahatma Gandhi

[Skwmom]

39. You don't need to go as far back as Whitewater. n/t

[karynnj]

47. Not only is the Burlington College thing complicated, but it is very hard to see who lost

Not the college - her deal enabled them to buy a gorgeous piece of lake front property, part of which is still their land after selling part of it and the building for $7.5 million and $2 million respectively. http://digital.vpr.net/post/crisis-fades-burlington-college-looks-future#stream/0 Before buying the Catholic Church's former orphanage, they had a small street side building closer to town -- that now is used by COTS, the Burlington based group dealing with the homeless. ( https://www.google.com/search?q=Cots+north+ave&oq=Cots+north+ave&aqs=chrome..69i57.5201j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 )

From what I have read - and what I heard when Christine Plunket had tours to show Burlingtonians the historical building - it was always understood that the deal needed many things to go right - and nothing wrong. The enrollments had to increase above the level before they had the building, contributions had to continue ( 2008???), and there was always the goal to sell part of the land for a planned housing community. In fact, none of these were easy --- and led to crisis in 2014.

With the sale of the land -- they are back on the path that started when they took the opportunity to buy the building and land - and jump to the possibility of being a stronger, bigger college than it was in 2010. In the wiki article, it is clear that the developer is also involved in building student housing. It is entirely possible that 10 years from now - after the crises of the last year - that purchase will be seen as a transformative moment for this eclectic college. Here is a link the current plan - http://vtdigger.org/2015/06/17/burlington-review-board-hears-plans-for-second-part-of-burlington-college-development/

Burlington, VT - look at the VT digger article. This seems as good a use for that land as the town could have wanted. Had the College not bought it, what would be there now?

The banks who held the mortgage - It sounds like it is stable since the sale of the land.

Can a Clinton person, please tell me why this is more questionable or base than parlaying $1000 into $100,000 with help from powerful Arkansas moneymen, who needed the Governor's good will?

[libdem4life]

49. OMG...OMG...Jane Sanders is a failed Capitalist. New ventures very often fail...

about 80% of them. And hers was in trying to help others. People didn't come through with pledges...the security the bank used to grant the loan. And she got a severance pay. OMG...OMG bring the fainting chair...capitalism.

ETA: At least we should breath easier knowing there is only One Socialist in that household. LOL

[enid602]

50. in a nurshell

She cooked the books of a small college to get a loan. She was the President. The college defaulted. The Catholic Church took a lloss of $2mm. She was canned, but lawyered up and finnagled a $200k severance. The college lost its acredidation.

[in_cog_ni_to]

52. That's a blatant lie and you know it. HRH is still going to lose no matter how many lies you spew.

Your slash and burn garbage won't do a damn thing to change to outcome of this election. Bernie will only gain more voters, so keep it coming.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[leftofcool]

55. Sorry, it's not a lie. Ask the people at Burlington College

Specifically, speak to the people who control the finances.

[nc4bo]

57. Whitewater can help with slash and burn techniques.

Can't burn wet trees.

[enid602]

58. I'm convinced

Your debating skills are second only to Bernie's.

[R B Garr]

56. This obviously goes to the Sanders' credibility.

His whole spiel is anger at the system and getting everyone riled up, but he and his wife have no problem benefitting from it themselves.