Remember Obama's "Cling to their Guns and Their Religion" Comment?

[AnnieBW]

Did it ultimately hurt him in the end? Not really. Because those "clingers" were less likely to vote for him anyway. So, will this hurt Rmoney? Probably not much. Because the people that were inclined to vote for him feel exactly the same way that he does. I don't see this as much of a game-changer, in the long run.

[tjdee]

1. It is not the same, don't drink the kool-aid. nt

[vt_native]

5. Andrea Greenspan is pushing the false equivalency

I can't stand that old crow. Sorry that your wrinkled old husband used to think of Ayn Rand when he could muster up the energy to climb on to of you. BIOTCH!

I await the jury's decision.

[SoapBox]

12. ROFL

"I can't stand that old crow."

I'm sure that someone will complain that this is a "sexist" remark but...

HILARIOUS! I can't stand her either.

[LiberalFighter]

36. She pushes that false equivalency

because her head is up in the clouds and she see down below what most people see. All she sees is the blinding sun.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

45. Jury's Decision....

Not Over-The-Top Enough....

Here's what gets lost in Mrs. Greenspan's thoughtful analysis. Obama made the comment in the context of how he and the Democrats could possibly reach out to these voters. The discussion was how to include them in the national debate and speak to them in a way that will elicit a response. He wasn't say "Fuck those Red State assholes, they're never going to vote for me anyway" in the way that Mitt was referring to the 47%.

Obama was trying to draw people in, and Mitt was writing them off.

[jpbollma]

2. agreed.

Fair or not, I don't see this moving the needle anymore. I see it solidifying the distrust that independents who have turned on him already have. If Obama won by more than 5% I would be shocked. The country is so partisan these days that Dems and Reps will vote for their candidate no matter what.

[WeekendWarrior]

20. Oh, please

Romney is driving his campaign directly into a ditch. This isn't a single gaffe like Obama's, but the culmination of a number of gaffes over the course of the last several months that paint Romney as the incompetent, morally bankrupt, elitist buffoon he is. This is merely confirmation of his greasy character and I, frankly, will be surprised if Obama isn't the winner of one of the biggest election blowouts in history.

In my estimation, Romney has succeeded in making the "anyone but Obama" crowd start to take a look at the president and think, hey, maybe he's not so bad compared to the douche bag who essentially just called my parents on social security and my kids on financial aid parasites.

This isn't just a guns and religion gaffe. This is a major faux pas, in a string of them, that's he's never likely to live down.

[Laelth]

29. I certainly hope that you are right. n/t

-Laelth

[jenmito]

3. There's a huge difference. Obama WANTED their votes. Romney said he doesn't even

CARE about getting the votes of the 47% "moochers."

[SoapBox]

14. Agreed

You summed up what I would have posted.

[jenmito]

16. Thanks, SoapBox!

[Major Hogwash]

18. Nailed it!

Once again.

Are you single, perchance?

Heh heh.

[livetohike]

4. When Pres. Obama's comment (which was blasted all over and taken out of context) was made

it was April and the primary election. This is different in that it is so close to the general election and Romney just called nearly half of all Americans something he doesn't have to worry about! Once people hear this and realize he is talking about anyone receiving any government aid whether it is student loans, VA benefits, etc. they will realize what a loser he is. I hope.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

6. Sigh....I'm amazed people can't understand this

Of course those who were going to vote for Romney are still going to vote for Romney.

Of course it's red meat for their masses.

But IT DOES MATTER TO THOSE WHO ARE NOT AFFILIATED.

And IT DOES MATTER in the sense that the story is going to have huge legs and will be talked about for weeks.

And when people are talking about this, it's a missed opportunity for Romney to make his case.

Tick-tock, tick-tock.....we're now under 60 days. Missed news cycles, time and resources devoted to spinning it, etc. This is VERY BAD for team Romney.

I get the whole contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian thing, but in this case it's just off the mark.

[get the red out]

7. Guns and Religion

The President never said those people were lazy and didn't even deserve food. The President made a gaffe four years ago, Mitt Romney has declared himself to be without the slightest bit of normal human empathy. Those are miles apart.

[sammytko]

8. He ended by saying that we should still reach out to those that cling to religion and guns, not

write them off like Romney wants to do with the "moochers"

Not even the same thing.

[Politicalboi]

28. It wasn't a gaffe

It's true. But Obama wasn't throwing them under a bus.

[Laelth]

31. Spot on. Well said. n/t

-Laelth

[get the red out]

43. I agree that it's true

I live among that mindset, it is very true.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

9. There is a major difference, and you should be ashamed of yourself. If Obama/the Democrats were

smart, they would be explaining that Mitt Romney just insulted most seniors in this country, the very demographic that supports the Romney/Ryan ticket in the first place.

[tjdee]

10. Rachel Maddow has an EXCELLENT blog on this:

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/09/18/13940983-two-secret-videos-two-different-visions?lite

[OneGrassRoot]

11. I've been fielding this question a lot today...

First of all, my family is in SW PA -- they are proud rednecks (guns, god, proud racist/bigots...not that all rednecks are racist/bigots) -- and it was about that general area that President Obama was speaking of when he made that statement during the campaign in 2008.

Basically, people who hate Obama, or people like us here at DU, for that matter, are going to perceive it as an insult. Such people tend to see everything as black or white, so explaining it further is really useless.

However, for others who didn't feel personally insulted but found the comment arrogant or demeaning in any way, I wrote the following earlier today with my thoughts. I definitely didn't perceive it as an insult.


"I'll pre-empt those reading, who are thinking of President (then candidate) Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser in 2008, and share here for examination. It's a given that I have a different worldview than right-wing conservatives, so I interpret these remarks, which follow, differently than those predisposed to dislike Obama and, for that matter, dislike or at least strongly disagree in general with people like me (progressive, liberal, whateveryouwannacallme).

[font color="blue"]OBAMA (2008): "You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."[/font]

Granted, if the second paragraph is all someone hears, it seems to be a slam against rednecks (similar to Republican consistent slams against "welfare queens&quot .

But I get what he was saying (though he could have worded it better perhaps). What he was saying is that people are angry for the reasons he gave in the first paragraph.

I personally believe people are afraid, and that fuels the anger.

When afraid, some people focus on protecting themselves and their families; when people are afraid, some turn to their faith; when people are afraid, some fear The Other.

Even during the campaign, Obama was portrayed by opponents as someone who is going to take away their guns, as someone who is a Muslim terrorist sympathize, as someone who is most definitely The Other.

He gets that. He understood it back then. Hence his statement, which I do not believe was meant as an insult whatsoever. It was a statement that he gets why people were wary of him and wouldn't vote for him. Many still are, and he still gets it."

[JoePhilly]

13. The two comments are very different. Obama's included Empathy, Romney's Disdain.

Obama was describing how some people, when they feel threatened or frustrated, retreat to their religion, and their "guns". They do so because those bring them comfort, and they provides some stability in what can be a difficult world.

But Obama never suggested that he was going to write off those people because he could never reach them. If anything, he wanted to reach out to them.

Romney said the opposite. He said 47% of Americans pay no income taxes, and he will never be able to reach them because they see themselves as victims and they are entitled to have the government take care of them. He also said this description is what he applied to everyone who supports Obama.

As a person who pays a higher effective tax rate than Mitt does, I'm angry. My mother is in her 70s, pays no income tax, and Romney calls her a person who expects the government to take care of her. I guess she paid into Social Security and Medicare all her life so that an entitled ass like Romney could call her names. I don't think so.

He's toast. During the debates, Mitt will not be able to handle it when Obama pounds him on this point. And Obama will.

[k2qb3]

15. It will hurt Romney with the middle...

I agree it isn't the game-changer many seem to think it is, partly because it's derived from the old saw that a pure democracy will only survive until people realise they can loot the treasury, which has some validity.

However, the "47% don't pay taxes" bit angers many people because it's so disingenuous, the reasons why it's a bogus talking point have been well covered. Romney particularly suffers because of his personality disorders and history of "out of touch rich guy" rhetoric.

The "guns and religion" comment did hurt Obama, it worried a lot of people. There are still people today who're sticking to the republican party solely on the basis of their belief that the democrats are hostile to their faith or the 2nd amendment. I realise that's exactly what Obama was saying but soundbites that reinforce peoples fears do matter.

[Dawgs]

17. Regardless if you are right, it will hurt because it's another day of Romney defending himself. n/t

[Drunken Irishman]

19. Yes, it did hurt Obama...

Do you not remember? It killed him in Pennsylvania during the primary and forced the process to drag on for a few more weeks when he could have essentially ended Clinton's campaign with a victory there. It was an ugly moment that put his nomination in doubt and because Obama is such a skilled politician, and because he had time, he was able to walk back that comment over time and put it behind him.

1) That was in early 2008 - so, far from the general election. This is only 50 days out of the campaign, with far less time to walk back that comment and rectify the situation.

2) Romney is not skilled enough to fix this. You saw it with his press conference last night. He made it worse.

3) Obama was still ahead in the overall picture (delegate count). Had he been behind in the polls, that comment most surely would've done him in. Romney is behind in the polls and every week lost, which let's concede this news story will dominate the rest of the week, puts him that much closer to defeat.

So, stop comparing the two. They're apples & oranges.

[karynnj]

21. Part of your assumption is wrong

The people Obama was speaking of were people who voted against their economic good for religious or cultural reasons. They were already not going to vote for the Democrat - especially not Obama. (My problem with Obama's statement is that to say everyone should vote their economic well being ignores that other things can be more important - and we accept that for wealthy Democrats.)

Republicans DO get a significant amount of that vote - including the elderly and many of the SAME people Obama was speaking of - poor evangelicals. That he spoke of them with some degree of contempt is something that might shake them.

Not to mention imagine using that, contrast to Obama, then ask who REALLY would work to preserve Medicare and SS and who seems to resent their existence.

[DCBob]

22. Romney will be hurt by this since it further defines his real persona..

clueless, thoughtless, cold, uncaring, insensitive, disconnected, and mean.

[Avalux]

23. They are not comparable. Not in any way.

Romney stated that he has no responsibility to half of Americans who are worthless. How the hell is that the same, to want to be president, yet write off half the country? How would he govern?

[WI_DEM]

24. How does Obama's comment compare to Romney?

who thinks half the American people are lazy bums looking for a handout and won't do a thing for them? It's totally different.

[conlibe]

25. Full tape revealed...no misspoke

Many of those "clinging to their guns" are part of the 47-percent Romney is disdaining!

NINE OF THE TEN STATES with the highest rate of people WHO DO NOT PAY TAXES voted Republican!

The FULL tape is revealed and Romney was NOT taken out of context at all...like he wanted us to believe.

Curiouser and curiouser!


Romney a "victim" of his Arrogance!
http://conlibe.wordpress.com

[bloods vs crips]

26. similar

The intent is similar, that some people are stupid (moochers, lazy, whatever) and shouldn't be focused on.

The big difference is that gun/bible clingers generally come from red states, not Obama's own base.

The 47% Romney talks about come mostly from red states. They either support Obama and he doesn't get credit for it due to the electoral college (which makes Romney's point completely ridiculous), or they actually vote Republican, which makes him ignorant of his own base.

[uppityperson]

32. Since most of the states with lowest fed income taxes paid are red, they voted majority for Repubs.

Mitt doesn't know his base.

[bloods vs crips]

34. but...

You can't just automatically assume this. Remember even in base states, the winners are only taking in ~60% of the vote. That means the 47% Romney is talking about could easily be in the 40% to Obama.

The point is though, if they do vote for Obama it doesn't hurt Romney's chances, because he already wins those states.

[uppityperson]

38. Numerous studies have shown the poor vote for republicans. The point is Romney doesn't know his bas

[bloods vs crips]

39. studies

Numerous studies have shown the poor (in the south) vote Republican? Source?

[Zen Democrat]

27. There's a HUGE difference - Obama wanted their votes. Romney is writing off 47% as freeloaders.

[MjolnirTime]

30. keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

[MrDiaz]

33. I own guns

and i wouldn't want them takenaway... I'm also voting Obama

[ret5hd]

35. you showed me everything i needed to know when...

after all these posts you didn't respond even once.

[AnnieBW]

41. Because I was offline

Unfortunately, a storm took out our power.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Obama. Not at all! I was kind of putting two and two together to come up with five.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

[ohheckyeah]

37. Anybody who didn't remember

remembers now. Thanks for sharing.

[nc4bo]

40. M$M has been dragging that tape out of storage and playing it like it happened yesterday.

Watching Evening News and this has to be about the 8th time I've had to hear the infamous Obama hidden tape.

[Kteachums]

42. All you WV welfare recipients are part of the 47% but, Mitt forgot you belong to him.

Isn't it unreal that people would still vote for him. Listen you coal miners out there. Pay your taxes or you aren't worth anything to Mr. Romney. It's not too late to save your souls!