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BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:54 AM Jan 2013

What I've learned on DU

I've been a member on DU for a few months ago. I actually was a member in good standing many years ago but my membership lapsed and the site didn't recognize my old user name when I came back prior to this election. Anyway, back when Bush was President, I remember a good bit of discussion about "Man Coulter," which I as a lone voice objected to at the time. But that was pretty much the extent of the sexism I recall. Perhaps I have selective memory.

Since coming back in September, I've learned the following lessons here on DU:

Women are bitches.

Barack Obama is a sellout.

Bitches complain about being called bitches

Barack Obama is a genius.

Men are subject to continual and relentless sexism.

Bitches are responsible for the oppression that downtrodden, white men are forced to endure.

Not all men call us bitches: Some opt for "lady" or "cupcake."

Women who complain about sexism are unreasonable bitches who don't recognize the real oppression in society is against white men.

White male privilege is a lie invented by bitches to make men feel guilty.


So my question for those of you who have been here for a long time is whether you think that sexism has gotten worse. I don't recall such frequent use of misogynist language in the past.

Yes, my post displays a good dose of butt hurt, but I have grown weary of being called a bitch. I sometimes think they would prefer we not have the right to vote, let alone challenge them in a public discussion board. Yes. I exaggerate, but I can't help feeling wounded. I think I deserve to be challenged based on my ideas rather than insulted for being female.

113 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What I've learned on DU (Original Post) BainsBane Jan 2013 OP
you use that word more than anyone I ve seen on DU. in fact I hardly ever, if ever, see msongs Jan 2013 #1
See post 7. redqueen Jan 2013 #13
I've been here almost 10 yrs and rarely see anything alittlelark Jan 2013 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #3
thanks for the support BainsBane Jan 2013 #4
Plus a gazillion-bazillion. And add one more. Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #17
the absurdity BainsBane Jan 2013 #21
Here are examples that took five minutes to compile BainsBane Jan 2013 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Phlem Jan 2013 #53
It's about the same at this point in time as I ever remember it; ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #5
witness the earlier responses in this thread BainsBane Jan 2013 #6
I just served on a jury for this thread JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #8
What was the jury vote? redqueen Jan 2013 #16
seriously. BainsBane Jan 2013 #20
Rq JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #23
+1 about someone being vindictive because she told the truth. Squinch Jan 2013 #32
wow BainsBane Jan 2013 #18
You betcha JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #24
what a blast.... seabeyond Jan 2013 #25
See his dictation below - down thread JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #28
I, for one enjoy Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #9
agree. well said. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #10
Hello seabeyond! Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #12
hello helen reddy seabeyond Jan 2013 #14
;) n/t Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #15
Thanks, Helen and Seabeyond BainsBane Jan 2013 #19
I don't know if it has gotten worse on DU specifically, MadrasT Jan 2013 #22
Taking dictation JustAnotherGen Jan 2013 #26
thanks to Giovanni and you too, JustanotherGen BainsBane Jan 2013 #27
:) redqueen Jan 2013 #29
thank you giovanni, for simply pondering seabeyond Jan 2013 #31
There are those of us who are proud as hell of being a bitch. Count me as one. I can & will TAKE patrice Jan 2013 #30
If you consider yourself a bitch, that's your business. Did you see the examples in post 7? redqueen Jan 2013 #33
I'm saying people CAN take such posters down themselves. & I approve of all of that being out in patrice Jan 2013 #37
Being taken down is precisely when they use such language BainsBane Jan 2013 #54
That's why I don't think most of it should go to jury. What happens should be seen. Embarass bad patrice Jan 2013 #57
You haven't responded to anything I've said BainsBane Jan 2013 #66
You insulted me. & You said that the fact that you work for a university makes you better than I. patrice Jan 2013 #68
OMG BainsBane Jan 2013 #70
well if you had taken that position to begin with BainsBane Jan 2013 #71
Well done! Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #84
Oh, gee. Thank you! BainsBane Jan 2013 #87
I don't think it is fine to stereotype. That's being a bad bitch, because someone is undercutting patrice Jan 2013 #39
Yeah, right. redqueen Jan 2013 #41
I didn't mean to imply that, but my point is that sanitized environments aren't good for people. patrice Jan 2013 #44
It's funny how we don't allow racists to be challenged to "learn" why using racist slurs is wrong. redqueen Jan 2013 #45
You know, because people have different ways of going about things that doesn't mean patrice Jan 2013 #47
Those examples are clear. redqueen Jan 2013 #48
I wonder if you could be more specific: "in-group use"? "taking it back"? I'm not sure what you are patrice Jan 2013 #50
Is there one and only one intolerance of misogyny? Does that intolerance have only certain patrice Jan 2013 #51
You've gone beyond that BainsBane Jan 2013 #56
I never told you not to be bothered about it. I said it is not good for the whole issue to HIDE it & patrice Jan 2013 #60
Again, you have ignored everything I have said BainsBane Jan 2013 #69
BTW, #47 was about what you called "tolerance for misogyny", not about racism. I think racism is so patrice Jan 2013 #49
There is nothing "natural" about racism and sexism BainsBane Jan 2013 #63
Yes! +1 n/t Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #85
It's possible they are martians too BainsBane Jan 2013 #55
Well, it IS the internet, a hall of mirrors of halls of mirrors & this board is kind of notorious patrice Jan 2013 #58
Oh..yay. Texasgal Jan 2013 #35
Thanks for this OP. I've seen some attitudes here that shock me. Squinch Jan 2013 #34
the rape posts were the worst BainsBane Jan 2013 #64
The only time I've been insulted here with one of those, it was done by another woman. mother earth Jan 2013 #36
I have found--and not just here but everywhere-- Laffy Kat Jan 2013 #38
i have too. that is why i never buy or let stand pointing the finger at rw men only. seabeyond Jan 2013 #40
Some "progressive" liberal men MadrasT Jan 2013 #42
LOL... evo psych... or as I prefer to call it... redqueen Jan 2013 #43
"intelligent design for atheists." exactly. perfect. thank you. i am gonna try to remember this seabeyond Jan 2013 #46
Given the gender voting patterns in this country... Deep13 Jan 2013 #52
we'd certainly be better of if that were the case BainsBane Jan 2013 #95
i supported obama, having to stand by hillary with the sexism, yet making clear i preferred obama, seabeyond Jan 2013 #98
This is what a "Bitch" is ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #59
Language doesn't work that way and you know it. That makes you a fascist, a word fascist. patrice Jan 2013 #61
Yes language does work that way. ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #62
a fascist? BainsBane Jan 2013 #65
Touched a nerve there I think ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #67
it's a lost cause BainsBane Jan 2013 #73
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #75
Of course I win. ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #77
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #78
Whoa ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #79
speaking of doggy porn BainsBane Jan 2013 #80
LOL ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #82
now i have to read half of this OP thread that i have not seabeyond Jan 2013 #89
Clinical overview of a dog's reproductive cycle = porn?! redqueen Jan 2013 #97
Right Wing extremists "also seem to believe in a type of authoritarianism" like that in this thread patrice Jan 2013 #72
I'm not worth your time BainsBane Jan 2013 #74
"... a strong resistance to authority from what they view as “outgroups,” namely blacks and women.." redqueen Jan 2013 #76
There is an ignore function reverend_tim Jan 2013 #81
I don't ignore. ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #83
Here's how I interpret the admonition to use ignore BainsBane Jan 2013 #96
Yes ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #102
do you use it on the small penis accusation that is 90% men? or is it just the very few seabeyond Jan 2013 #90
That small penis crap really is a stupid analogy. ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #91
it is so fuckin stupid. reality. it is the only real insult one can use on a white male. that is seabeyond Jan 2013 #93
Hah! Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #99
. ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #101
You completely miss the point BainsBane Jan 2013 #94
Ah, I did not wander into a feminist group, your post or crossed over to the "Latest" category. reverend_tim Jan 2013 #100
Latest? BainsBane Jan 2013 #104
YUP reverend_tim Jan 2013 #106
At the top ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #107
This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Jan 2013 #108
I wonder how many males think it's okay caseymoz Jan 2013 #86
Here is a treasure trove of info BainsBane Jan 2013 #88
good point. i have discussed this when it became a mantra from men. i told them, call it out, alert seabeyond Jan 2013 #92
same as they tell us to fight for "men's equality too" if equality is what we want.... bettyellen Jan 2013 #109
There are men who take these issues seriously, redqueen Jan 2013 #110
well thanks, Red! And I agree it's all about the ego. What totally cracks me up though is the bettyellen Jan 2013 #111
LOL, yes, well women (in general) are still expected to do most of the housework redqueen Jan 2013 #112
when they ask us to do their clean up (of society) , I am completely unable to take them seriously bettyellen Jan 2013 #113
I've been here a long time. roody Jan 2013 #103
that explains why you've survived so long BainsBane Jan 2013 #105

msongs

(67,194 posts)
1. you use that word more than anyone I ve seen on DU. in fact I hardly ever, if ever, see
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 04:08 AM
Jan 2013

that word used on DU.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
13. See post 7.
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:03 PM
Jan 2013

Hell I try to avoid this place now because of this kind of shit, and I still see it regularly here.

It is getting worse. Now men are so bold as to flat out redefine the insult as not being misogynist.

It's shameful that we are so tolerant of misogyny.

Response to alittlelark (Reply #2)

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
4. thanks for the support
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:10 AM
Jan 2013

being a woman I just make it all up. Of course, you could do a keyword search but that would require actual effort.

Response to BainsBane (Reply #4)

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
7. Here are examples that took five minutes to compile
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:56 AM
Jan 2013

There are many, many more.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=205461
Read this entire thread. One person made a point of calling women bitches in multiple posts.

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: toughen up RW troll bitches

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240201338

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: There ARE such things as bitches. If people are not permitted to say that, you do a dis-service to the case that there is authentic misogyny, because the authentic bitches get to take cover amongst amongst those who are accused of bitchery but aren't really bitches. THAT's what we need to talk about and we CAN'T do that under the blanket oppression of politically correct speech. Put your big girl panties on and DEAL with it.

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: respect is a two way street and until language that is derogatory towards men is equally as frowned on here at DU these types of comments will be made

In reference to the term you never see:
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: If women can insult men with impunity then men can insult women as well

And the many threads like this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240194213
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240194342

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=207817

Response to alittlelark (Reply #2)

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
5. It's about the same at this point in time as I ever remember it;
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:20 AM
Jan 2013

Its been worse. With the exception of the thread on pedophilia, and a few others. There are always 'language wars', feminists or women who don't even self identify as feminist are often shut down when complaining about gender specific language.

Bitch is considered, generally a free for all, except for those who wish to maintain some sort of civility and out of those, it's the rare one who understands WHY bitch is objectionable, as opposed to another vulgarity such as 'shit' or Fuck'



Any discussion of rape will have blame the victim/false accusation troops. With the rise of men's rights activism, there is privilege denial or just plain ignorance, I don't think this trend is limited to DU.

The best quote on privilege I heard here, although I've forgotten who it's attributed to;
"Everyone has privilege; it's a question of what and how much" white males, being on top of the food chain don't see how they're are privileged if they're out of work. Male sexual privilege is largely ignored in flame bait arguments from porn to sex work, denied in gender pay gaps and has a 'what about the men' flavor in attempted discussions about violence against women. Etc

So yeah.

The popularity of Obama is very fickle. Members who fully support him formed their own group. Members who don't sometimes seem other than Democrats. Occasionally, you'll see an awesome, actual back and forth discussion.

Recently, Its been males complaining about the comparison of penis size to gun ownership.

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
8. I just served on a jury for this thread
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:57 AM
Jan 2013
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: This thread needs to stand. It's not over the top and does not break TOS. OP provides solid examples down thread. Let it stand - justanothergen


Another Leave It Alone stated its an accurate assessment of the decline in civility at DU.

Bainsbane - You nailed it using polite language while quoting others vulgarity. If someone needs the vapors to read this thread - then they should move onto the DU Lounge and talk about American Idol.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
16. What was the jury vote?
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:08 PM
Jan 2013

3-3, 4-2,...?

Thanks for the info. Good to know we are being policed for the usage of anti woman slurs, while discussing how offensive it is that their use is even debatable here. Sigh.

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
23. Rq
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:53 PM
Jan 2013

4 to leave it and 2 to go. Bainsbane made her point respectfully. I swear someone was just being vindictive because she told the truth.


My sig line is no accident. It's a quote my husband's mother taught him. And something he shared with me. A lot of men get really pissed off just because a woman told them the truth. Not cool.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
18. wow
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 03:25 PM
Jan 2013

I can't believe someone alerted on this. Would I be correct in thinking that alert was because the person didn't like attention drawn to sexism?

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
24. You betcha
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:59 PM
Jan 2013

My husband and brother stalk me at DU. My husband said - she better keep writing! I showed him the thread. he won't register as he doesn't feel he's well written. But he also loves sea beyond and redqueen! Not that ANY of us need male validation - but he loves when women stand up for themselves by the simple act of telling THE

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
28. See his dictation below - down thread
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 07:29 PM
Jan 2013
He reads the groups on my iPad since I'm always logged in. He seriously can't believe some man with a chip on his ahoulder alerted on this thread.
 

Helen Reddy

(998 posts)
9. I, for one enjoy
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:53 PM
Jan 2013

ALL of your comments.

You, from what I see, are a necessary strong pro-woman's voice here. Yes, more of that is sorely needed.

 

Helen Reddy

(998 posts)
12. Hello seabeyond!
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:58 PM
Jan 2013

I make lame attempts at writing an important thought every now and again but I FAIL miserably at communicating. Thus, I am here to encourage women with better writing skills than me who can speak truth to power about issues pertinent to women.

I, enjoy all you do for this site as well.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
22. I don't know if it has gotten worse on DU specifically,
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 04:48 PM
Jan 2013

but you are not imagining it.

I love the arguments (from men) that amount to: "Bitch" is gender neutral now and it is on teevee!! all the time, so sit down and shut the fuck up, I'll tell you when you are allowed to be offended."

Which make me .

No man on this planet is allowed to give me directions about sexism or any other feminist issue. Fuck that. They can try, but it won't even be considered as valid input by me. All it does is make me laugh.

The other one that is hilarious is how predictably any and every post about sexism or misogyny gets the "BUT WHATTABOUT THE MEN!!!!!!" derailing commentary. Predictable as fucking clockwork.

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
26. Taking dictation
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 07:15 PM
Jan 2013

From justanothergen's Giovanni:

If one woman says it - ponder it.

If a lot of women say it - just shut up and nod your head in agreement. They are telling the truth.

Hugs and Kisses (he's from Italy - just go with it okay?),

Giovanni.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
29. :)
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 07:30 PM
Jan 2013

It's nice to know not all men think they should be showered with cookies just for being decent human beings.



 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
31. thank you giovanni, for simply pondering
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 07:59 PM
Jan 2013

and thank you for being open to going beyond.

justanothergen has shared inspiring stories of your support and openmindedness with us. stories that are inspiring for those of us living with men who are the same and for all the women that are not. so so valued.

and gen, i am a huggy, kissy type of gal myself.

sigh... i feel i have to add, for all the men on du and elsewhere that do the same, lol, i am certainly not leaving any out. i see a lot more of this man, than the other. in my personal life anyway.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
30. There are those of us who are proud as hell of being a bitch. Count me as one. I can & will TAKE
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 07:34 PM
Jan 2013

"balls" if I decide that it's the right thing to do.

There are entire Face Book groups of Bitches. I salute them.

Yes, it is incumbent upon bitchitude to get it right, to not be indiscriminate and, worse, mistaken, and thus reduce the value of one's bitchery, but I'm not sure how anyone is going to learn how to get it right unless they are also allowed to get it wrong and to learn from their mistakes to be better bitches.

... and no, I did not forget to insert a sarcasm emoticon, because this is not sarcasm.

The world NEEDS better bitches.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
33. If you consider yourself a bitch, that's your business. Did you see the examples in post 7?
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:25 PM
Jan 2013

I don't know if you're choosing to ignore context, or conflating 'taking back' usage with pejorative usage, or what... but whatever you do, or your friends do, or pages you like on Facebook do... that all has nothing to do with seeing that word used in a hateful way here on DU.

Are you saying you think it's fine for people here to refer to republican women as "bitches"?

patrice

(47,992 posts)
37. I'm saying people CAN take such posters down themselves. & I approve of all of that being out in
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:44 PM
Jan 2013

the open, because in the open the bad bitches will be separated from the good bitches and the good bitches will accrue more credibility.

I'll look at the example you are referring to.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
54. Being taken down is precisely when they use such language
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:14 PM
Jan 2013

They do so out of intellectual weakness, when they have nothing to say so instead turn to sexist and racist insults. People capable of articulating themselves don't need to hurl ugly insults. They advance their point of view and lay out their reasons for disagreement.

BTW, how do you suppose one can "take down" by argument someone who chooses to use the anonymity of the jury pool to hurl insults? The anonymity is what they feel empowers them to express with such vulgarity their views about women.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
57. That's why I don't think most of it should go to jury. What happens should be seen. Embarass bad
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:47 PM
Jan 2013

actors in public by being superior and, I know I don't have to tell you, NOT stooping to their inferior tactics and argumentation; we don't need to do that. Take them apart, word by word, by staying on the high road with examples and show their bad reasoning if you can.

Don't underestimate how many people are scanning threads, just reading, speak to them and use strong language about a sexist post, but nothing low, say the meanest things you can in the most acceptable language possible, with a little good bitch-speak thrown in now and then for emphasis. Asking questions is useful and can be quite revealing.

I'll admit that I do have a strong bias to just turn some posters into 0, not because I don't think misogyny should be confronted, but because I'm usually on a tear about something else that I'm working on (e.g. lately, this http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022193033 ) , so I just don't see a lot of what happens. I will try to keep a better watch on for what you're referring to.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
66. You haven't responded to anything I've said
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:03 AM
Jan 2013

Your entire response is a non-sequitur. I suppose that follows from not bothering to read.

You don't turn anyone into a "0." No one does. You simply reveal yourself. What a bizarre concept.

A simple solution to not caring about an issue is to not involve yourself in threads like this. That's what people do when a subject doesn't interest them. They don't make a point of telling the other person their concerns are entirely unfounded because they don't mirror their own. For some reason, deligitimating women is important to you. If it weren't, you wouldn't have spent thirty seconds on this thread.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
68. You insulted me. & You said that the fact that you work for a university makes you better than I.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:12 AM
Jan 2013

Last edited Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:23 AM - Edit history (1)

I don't like you.

I do not find your whining interesting.

This discussion is pointless.

I will not be responding to anything else that you say.

You do feminism harm and I refuse to be associated with you.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
70. OMG
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:26 AM
Jan 2013

I give up. I did no such thing. I'm not going to bother explaining. You don't bother to read anyway.

You called another poster a fascist and then take offense to the fact I tell you that the people I work with don't insult each other with sexist language. If you consider that superior, you could choose to stop calling yourself and your friends bitches.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
71. well if you had taken that position to begin with
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:37 AM
Jan 2013

You wouldn't have entered this thread, which was my point. You don't need to find me interesting. I see no reason you should. But something has compelled you to devote a good part of your day insisting that objection to deliberate misogynist language is "whining."

I do wish you would stop pretending there is something natural or biological about the social inequality you have learned, but you obviously didn't bother to read that post.

I quite agree that discussion with you is pointless. You don't respond to anything anyone actually writes. You seem to have your own internal dialog that means more to you than what the rest of us say. That's perfectly fine. But you can't pretend to have a discussion with others when you ignore everything they say.

I can't imagine anyone would imagine anything about you is feminist, so your pronouncement that I harm feminism is absurd. You are the only woman in this thread who sees anything acceptable in calling women bitches. Most importantly, feminism is a belief in human equality. Your posts that confronting misogyny is not socially acceptable indicates to me that you see women as less important than men.

 

Helen Reddy

(998 posts)
84. Well done!
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:53 AM
Jan 2013

With the easy access of this here internetz gadget thingy, every person with any opinion on anything just talks and talks and talks.

Most of it quite predictable, pointless and boring.

But you....are simply brilliant!

patrice

(47,992 posts)
39. I don't think it is fine to stereotype. That's being a bad bitch, because someone is undercutting
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:52 PM
Jan 2013

the justice of a point by using it in a prejudiced manner. They damage what they putatively claim to be supporting. It's possible such people are trolls, trying to make a given issue-cohort look bad.

Observable behavior is the best, most concrete, focus for whatever point.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
44. I didn't mean to imply that, but my point is that sanitized environments aren't good for people.
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:45 PM
Jan 2013

They get weak, because they don't have to stand to stress, sort it out, and come up with an effective response one way or another. People don't learn without challenge and, thus, errors.

I looked at the examples and think pretty much what I said in my last post about the use of that or any word as a stereotype about whole groups of people, or even just one person whom one does not actually know enough about to come to a summary conclusion in one label.

If I went down through each of the example threads, I'm sure I'd find people I think could be saying whatever they're saying in order to get their jollies in on women, or Republicans, or Ann Romney. Their posts are probably not about anything much more than that, though they do also sometimes throw in tidbits of something like information that might be more or less interesting, to me, but I'm not as likely to involve myself in their jollies, one way or another, I guess because I don't like giving them what they want. I'll have to admit a bias toward the assumption that about the worst thing you can do to anyone around here is to turn them into a 0.

In those same example threads, I would probably also find posters who are trying to say something they think, something they understand about an issue/topic, they may be trying to do that & happen also to include naughty words (or this or that -wing talking points, but that's a related issue). If the whole gestalt of a post reveals something that might be more or less useful or interesting, I don't care about naughty words, or possible thrill-seeking, as much.

Yes, it is a balance, but I CAN tell the difference between the conditions sketched out in my last two paragraphs and I urge everyone to think about it too, for the benefit of the WHOLE movement. I have been known to "slap" some posters around a little for ridicule and disrespect (or for patterns of dishonesty for which I requested remediation and never received any), so I should be more sensitive to anyone who is trying to get their buzzzzzzzzzz on by insulting women.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
45. It's funny how we don't allow racists to be challenged to "learn" why using racist slurs is wrong.
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:50 PM
Jan 2013

As a woman of Mexican descent, I'm glad I don't have to put up with that shit.

As a woman, I am sorely fucking disappointed in liberal tolerance for misogyny.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
47. You know, because people have different ways of going about things that doesn't mean
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:03 PM
Jan 2013

they tolerate them. It's bad logic to say, TTE, "If it whistles, it MUST be a bird," when it could be a whale, a teapot, or a person, or a bird.

People could just be doing something different from how you would do it. It may APPEAR a certain way on the surface of it to you, but you don't have very much, enough, or possibly even the right information to actually know what each and every person is doing and, thus form that judgement of them, so if you're not stereotyping yourself you should consider admitting that people can do the same thing in different ways. Isn't this the problem that President Obama has had with what calls itself "the Left" this whole time. They're deaf to certain "wave lengths of sound," so they claim they don't exist.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
48. Those examples are clear.
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:08 PM
Jan 2013

Your off-topic arguments re in-group use and 'taking it back' stuff aside, when an anti woman slur is used with the intent to be insulting, I don't see how not calling it out as misogynist could be defined as anything but tolerating it.

Obviously YMMV.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
50. I wonder if you could be more specific: "in-group use"? "taking it back"? I'm not sure what you are
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:35 PM
Jan 2013

referring to. Quotes would be helpful.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
51. Is there one and only one intolerance of misogyny? Does that intolerance have only certain
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:42 PM
Jan 2013

traits and no others?

If so, I need to understand why that isn't fascism if you can tell me please.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
56. You've gone beyond that
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:38 PM
Jan 2013

Last edited Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:12 AM - Edit history (1)

It's one thing for you to refer to yourself and other women as bitches in your offline life. If those women can tolerate your presence, that is their choice. But you have gone beyond that. You have come to HOF in an effort to deligitimate the views of those who are offended by deliberate, misogynist insults. I'm not referring to a random use of the word. I'm talking about my and other women's being directly and personally insulted as a bitch if someone disagrees with me. You may enjoy being around men who behave that way. I do not, and I have every right to make that clear.

We obviously live different lives. People I know do not use such language to insult others. I work in a university and most of my friends are academics. They may write articles about bitch and the discourse of misogyny, but they don't offend their friends or colleagues that way.

This site has a clear TOS that requires members treat each other with civility. I have a right to be confronted based on the content of my ideas rather than insulted based on gender. I fully resent your attempts to deny me that right. I would never presume to tell you what should bother you in life. That you feel entitled to determine that for others is astounding.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
60. I never told you not to be bothered about it. I said it is not good for the whole issue to HIDE it &
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:00 AM
Jan 2013

that you should be strong enough to confront it in the open instead of seeking censorship.

I said confronting it in the open will be more useful to the point and progress your case better for a wider audience than suppressing it will.

You know what, you are wrong about me and jumping to conclusions about me that are not warranted. You know next to nothing about me and you didn't ask. The definition of your behavior is prejudice. If this is what feminism has become, I want no part of it.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
69. Again, you have ignored everything I have said
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:20 AM
Jan 2013

I make no point about censorship in this thread. I expressed frustration with how I've been treated. Many of the examples I've given are juror comments. They aren't public to begin with.

Elsewhere in this thread you contend that denouncing racism is socially acceptable while confronting misogyny is not. So you evidently think some insults should be hidden, while insults against women are socially acceptable.

The entire reason for your presence in this thread is to tell me my feelings are illegitimate. You began by saying the goal should be to become a better bitch. Truthfully, it doesn't appear that you put enough thought in your words to warrant the time I've spent trying to decipher them . . . It s all pointless anyway, since you obviously don't read what I write.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
49. BTW, #47 was about what you called "tolerance for misogyny", not about racism. I think racism is so
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:28 PM
Jan 2013

well known and more politically acceptable to call out, so it does get more attention than misogyny does, which is more universal, crosses race boundaries, so it's easier to earn social rewards for misogyny.

Personally, I think ALL of us, all races, all genders, have prejudices about one another. Individually those prejudices are more or less flexible, more or less universal, more or less high-value, that is, there are variations in how people hold their prejudices, but the prejudices are there in all colors all sexes. Party of the reason for that is because the human brain just naturally stereotypes, because it needs to, so that when you walk into a room full of strangers you don't do inappropriate shit. Stereotyping is actually somewhat functional. It becomes dysfunctional if it hardens and you don't let people out of the stereotype you have of them; that's bigotry and it prejudices all of one's thoughts about others by class and type. I was surprised to see someone wish for genocide of the South after the Civil War, here, lastnight, likely trollery, a prejudice so strong as to reach back about 150 years and include millions of people, even children, that one knows little or nothing about.

The ways that we treat one another affect the ways that we treat one another. All of it is a two-way street, so the best questions are how to admit that and also about what is going on in a specific situation between specific people.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
63. There is nothing "natural" about racism and sexism
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:29 AM
Jan 2013

Your assertion that it is more acceptable to call out racism than misogyny because the former is better known is problematic on many levels. Where to begin. I'll leave aside the psychological dimensions of this statement to get at mistakes in what you believe to be known.

"The human brain naturally stereotypes" because all races and genders have prejudices against each other. There is nothing "natural" about racism or sexism. Race is not a biological category; nor is gender. Both are culturally constructed, meaning they are taught. Sex does exist biologically, but race does not. Race has become a way of expressing biological difference, but it itself is not a biological category. Many of the attributes associated with a natural state of being a woman are also the result of gender constructions and disproved by anthropological surveys of a wide array of societies. You have sought to essentialize, or imagine as natural, manifestations of social inequality.

Race is a cultural invention dating only to the 18th century. Racial categories emerged as a way of legitimating slavery in the US and anti-semitism in the area we know call Germany. George M. Frederickson's Racism: A Short History, is an old but accessible historical introduction to the subject.
http://www.amazon.com/Racism-History-George-M-Fredrickson/dp/0691116520/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358741095&sr=1-1&keywords=frederickson+race
Others here may be able to point you to readings on gender.

The invention of race as a category served to legitimate slavery by imagining that "the negroid" was an inferior, biological species. While we no longer give voice to that notion of biological inferiority, our society continues to be influenced by the pseudo-scientific notion that race exists as a biological category.


There is an exhibit touring the nation that I encourage you see. Race: Are We So Different http://www.smm.org/race/

Upcoming venues include:

2013

Spring: Rochester Museum & Science Center, Rochester, NY

Summer: Available

Fall: Pacific Science Center, Seattle, Washington

2014

Spring: The Memphis Pink Palace Museum, Memphis Tennessee

2013

Spring: Museum of Science & History, Jacksonville, FL

Summer: McWane Science Center, Birmingham, AL

Fall: Available

2014

Spring: Available

Summer: Carnegie Museum of Natural History, Pittsburgh, PA

Fall: Carnegie Museum of Natural History, Pittsburgh, PA

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
55. It's possible they are martians too
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:18 PM
Jan 2013

and if they are "trolls," there certainly are a whole lot of them.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
58. Well, it IS the internet, a hall of mirrors of halls of mirrors & this board is kind of notorious
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:52 PM
Jan 2013

so I suppose lots of posters come here for bragging rights elsewhere.

Squinch

(50,774 posts)
34. Thanks for this OP. I've seen some attitudes here that shock me.
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:31 PM
Jan 2013

There was that spate of rape posts a few weeks back, and the depth of some of the disregard for women made my jaw drop. Always from obviously entitled men who are insulted that we are not adhering to their view of how we should be. And always from men who vehemently deny that they are total mysogynists.

mother earth

(6,002 posts)
36. The only time I've been insulted here with one of those, it was done by another woman.
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:43 PM
Jan 2013

Honestly, since I don't know your original moniker...it may have even been you.

Laffy Kat

(16,356 posts)
38. I have found--and not just here but everywhere--
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:49 PM
Jan 2013

that so called "leftist" or "progressive" men can be the worst when called out on their sexism. Perhaps because it hits a nerve and they have to turn it around? Not sure. It is tiring.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
40. i have too. that is why i never buy or let stand pointing the finger at rw men only.
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:54 PM
Jan 2013

i know a hell of a lot of conservatives that would not view women like what i see from some men on du, our progressives.

it is a man issue. not a party issue.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
42. Some "progressive" liberal men
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:23 PM
Jan 2013

seem to get really bent out of shape when they are called out for being sexisy/misogynistic. It seems like they think since they are part of the right "team", that somehow automatically absolves them and puts them above reproach.

I know some progressive/liberal men in real life who are *frighteningly* sexist. It is mind bending. Seems like a lot of them also lap up the evo-psych bullshit, too. Like it's scientific proof women are inferior. Only they call it "natural, evolutionary differences between genders."

Uh huh.

Jesus Christ it makes my head hurt.

Excuse me I have to go pick some berries now and find something to nurture. My hormones and ovaries are taking control again...

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
46. "intelligent design for atheists." exactly. perfect. thank you. i am gonna try to remember this
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:56 PM
Jan 2013

one. cause it is EXACTLY perfectly what it is and why it is used.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
52. Given the gender voting patterns in this country...
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:45 PM
Jan 2013

...I sometimes think only women should have the right to vote. A majority of white men voted for Romney, McCain, and Dubya. Really? Wow.

Anyway, to answer your question, I've always been irritated by sexism and I do not really know if it has gotten worse. I remember during the 2008 primaries there was all kinds of gender-specific hate directed toward Hillary Clinton and her supporters. The term "harpie" was in frequent use.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
95. we'd certainly be better of if that were the case
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:12 PM
Jan 2013

but even so, it's not right.

I was very much struck by the sexism against Hillary Clinton, even though I did not support her candidacy and resented her support for the Iraq war. Her ability to persevere through all that was truly amazing. I think she has got to be one of the strongest people alive. I will support her if she runs in 2016.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
98. i supported obama, having to stand by hillary with the sexism, yet making clear i preferred obama,
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:25 PM
Jan 2013

all the while having to defend palin against sexism and making it clear her vapid and using sexuality for her vote was wrong, yet still, that did not make our sexism to her ok.

that was a very challenging time.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
59. This is what a "Bitch" is
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:54 PM
Jan 2013
Although it may seem like dogs can turn up pregnant in the blink of an eye, it's actually a fairly complicated process. Just ask any breeder who has repeatedly tried and failed to produce a litter from her champion bitch; sometimes things just don't go according to plan. Successful dog breeding is all about the timing, so take a closer look at the biological issues behind the process

Heat Cycle Indicates When to Breed

Estrus
Simply put, estrus is a bitch's fertile time, generally referred to as a heat cycle or "season". The first heat cycle typically takes place between six and nine months old, but breeds that mature more slowly may not experience a first heat until twelve to eighteen months of age.

Cycle Length
A normal heat cycle lasts approximately three weeks. In the beginning stages, known as proestrus, a bitch's vulva begins to swell, and you may notice her licking herself more than usual. Male dogs will also begin sniffing her more as her hormones begin to produce a scent that signals she is becoming ready to breed.

Stages of Heat
Week One - Once the vulva begins to swell, the bitch will begin to produce a bloody discharge. The amount will vary from one bitch to the next, so it may or may not be noticeable.
Week Two - Sometime around nine to twelve days, the color of the discharge lightens to a pinkish-tan color, and it's usually around this time, referred to as estrus, that the vulva softens and eggs are released from the ovaries. At this point, you may notice your bitch flirting with other dogs; this is a sign she is ready to accept a male's advances.
Week Three - If the heat cycle is allowed to continue uninterrupted, by the third week, the discharge begins to look bloody again. The amount will trail off until the cycle has concluded with anestrus.
Yearly, Bi-Yearly or Quarterly Cycles
On average, a healthy bitch comes into season every six months. However, this can vary, and some bitches only cycle once a year while others come into season on a quarterly basis. Quite often, bitches that come in quarterly are not fertile every season.

Signs That It'sTime to Breed

Look for these signals that your bitch is ready to be bred:

General flirty/affectionate behavior
Tail held high and flagging
Pushing up rear when petted on the back
Willingness to stand and present vulva
Color change in discharge from red to pinkish-tan
The Mating

Breeding usually takes place naturally without any human intervention beyond introducing the dam to the stud. However a little direction may be required if one or both of the dogs involved have never been bred before. Typically, the male dog will become very excited when introduced to a receptive bitch, sniffing and licking at her vulva. Very quickly he will mount her from behind and begin to thrust. When all goes as nature has designed, he will penetrate the bitch's vulva; this causes two glands directly behind the penis to swell considerably.

In response, the bitch's vulva will clamp around this swelling; this is referred to as a tie, and it's the moment when the dog and bitch become "stuck" together. This period typically lasts from fifteen to thirty minutes, and it is at this point that sperm are being delivered to waiting eggs.

If the breeding has been successful and the bitch conceives, she will deliver her pups between 58 and 63 days later. You can easily find your dog's due date by consulting a canine pregnancy calendar.


You know, in case anyone really thinks its a cute antiquated word that applies globally.

http://dogs.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Dog_Heat_Cycle_and_Breeding

patrice

(47,992 posts)
61. Language doesn't work that way and you know it. That makes you a fascist, a word fascist.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:15 AM
Jan 2013

There are thousands of examples of this:

Are you one of those people who insists that "fuck" only means sexual intercourse? If someone says, "Oh, fuck!" do you consider whether you should undress or not? If you don't make that kind of mistake about the word "fuck", why do you CHOOSE to make it about the word "bitch"?

If I said to you, "I don't like black cars" and one happened to drive by just then, something really beautiful, and then I said to you, "Now there's a black I could live with" would you think I am talking about a black man? If you don't make that kind of mistake in that situation, why do you make that kind of mistake with the word "bitch"?

If there were a selection of blouses on the rack, from various countries, and you looked at them and then a little later wanted me to go get one for you, and I said, "Which one?" and you said, "It was American made" would you think there was something wrong with me if I thought you meant an American citizen who cleans houses for a living? If you don't make that kind of mistake in that situation, why do you make that kind of mistake with the word "bitch"?

Answer: Because you get your cheap jollies by describing the sexual acts of dogs and insisting that everyone else is talking about the same thing when most of them are not.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
62. Yes language does work that way.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:27 AM
Jan 2013

In terms of gendered language. That was a well written article about bitches.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
65. a fascist?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:53 AM
Jan 2013

Using a word in it's proper context is not "cheap jollies." Nor is it to be the same as Mussolini or Hitler. Bitch means female dog. That's why one hears the term mentioned with frequency at dog shows, where it is entirely appropriate. Some people actually do use words as they are defined. That makes them thoughtful, not perpetrators of genocide.

You really need to quit while you're behind. You seem to make a habit of being deliberately insulting. Is your ire directed exclusively toward women? I have to wonder if that relates to your earlier comment that denouncing misogyny is socially unacceptable.

Amazing that you are more offended by the mating practices of dogs than efforts to demean women. You've devoted so much effort to insisting women do not deserve respect. If you really are a woman, I feel badly for you.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
67. Touched a nerve there I think
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:10 AM
Jan 2013

The 'facist' response was a variant of Godwin's law. Yawn.

There's really no 'reclaiming' the word bitch, bitches, beyatch whatever. Especially not when seen in its proper context which is why I posted that reminder. It's a perfectly acceptable word used in dog breeding, its sexist AND heterosexist when used as a pejorative.

I hate having to deconstruct why that is over and over.

Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #67)

 

UnrepentantLiberal

(11,700 posts)
78. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:21 AM
Jan 2013

At Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:55 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

No you're just so full of crap, someone needs to point that out & the RW posers in this thread think http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=14440

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/? com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:07 AM, and the Jury voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: I agree with alerter - had to read the whole thread for context! Good discussion though
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: I hate these discussions over this particular word which I use all the time when it's appropriate and don't consider sexist at all, even though I'm a woman. That being said, the alerted post was probably over the top.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: I think Patrice has had one too many drinky
winkies.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I'm confused by this whole exchange, and wish the level of discourse (ahem) weren't so vitriolic and childish, but I don't see the post in question as violating the standards. Sadly, it's par for the course.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
97. Clinical overview of a dog's reproductive cycle = porn?!
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:21 PM
Jan 2013


Seriously, people need to stop trying to redefine words to suit their personal preferences.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
72. Right Wing extremists "also seem to believe in a type of authoritarianism" like that in this thread
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:38 AM
Jan 2013
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/20/far-right-poses-as-much-danger-to-the-u-s-as-radical-islam/

One of the core issues with the extreme right is that while they espouse individual freedom and like to try and spread fear regarding the government’s activities, they also seem to believe in a type of authoritarianism—one of the very things they profess to loathe in government—that includes a strong resistance to authority from what they view as “outgroups,” namely blacks and women, unions, and more.


One and only one way to be a feminist and if you're not a feminist in the prescribed manner, you disrespect women.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
74. I'm not worth your time
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:40 AM
Jan 2013

and I'm not interesting enough to demand your attention. I would greatly appreciate your keeping your word on that.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
76. "... a strong resistance to authority from what they view as “outgroups,” namely blacks and women.."
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:01 AM
Jan 2013

That sentence does not mean what you think it means.

You are telling feminists they are wrong for ... whatever... Either not wanting to be bitter bitches? Or better bitches? Or for confronting the use of misogynist insults by appealing to a jury to hide such misogynist bullshit since it is so glaringly obviously against the community standards, as opposed to wasting time and effort in a pointless debate such as this one?

You are the one coming in and telling every other woman why she is WRONG, and not just that but actually "harming feminism"...

This is ... sadly not unusual. Typical silencing tactics.

"Fascist" is a new one. So kudos for that, I guess.

reverend_tim

(105 posts)
81. There is an ignore function
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:58 AM
Jan 2013

I used it for the woman claiming that all men benefit from the rape of women.
I used if for the women who claimed men own guns because of small penis size.

Feel free to put me on your Ignore list, for not agreeing with you.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
83. I don't ignore.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:01 AM
Jan 2013

At least I don't use that particular function. If I want to ignore someone I simply do it.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
96. Here's how I interpret the admonition to use ignore
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:14 PM
Jan 2013

Last edited Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:25 PM - Edit history (1)

in this particular case: "Shut the fuck up."

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
90. do you use it on the small penis accusation that is 90% men? or is it just the very few
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:54 PM
Jan 2013

women that use that comment, which i oppose, that you ignore? because really, if that is a battle of yours, you would realize it is a strong majority of men that write the articles, posts OP and make the comment about mens penis size, and not women.

you recognize that, right?

i do not think there is one woman in this forum, that you just had to make this comment to, that would not object to that insult toward men.

but, you did do the typical guy thing coming in here with your "what about the menz" without really addressing the misogyny we are discussing.

i wont ignore you. i do not do that. but, i will challenge you on hypocrisy

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
93. it is so fuckin stupid. reality. it is the only real insult one can use on a white male. that is
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:05 PM
Jan 2013

their privilege. there is really no other insult to a man. yet... in our vocabulary, we have what did i see, like 174 for women. plenty, anyway.

if they want to address the cultural conditioning of manhood/masculinity provided to us thru the patriarchy, that would be at least an honest discussion. to go after a mans anatomy is as you say, simply stupid.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
94. You completely miss the point
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:06 PM
Jan 2013

and the examples, such as jurors comments, for which the ignore function is useless.

I seriously doubt any woman claimed all men benefit from rape, but please feel free to provide evidence if I am mistaken. You wouldn't be one of those people who thinks references to patriarchy mean that women are blaming you personally? <sigh> One doesn't need to condemn all men to object to rape. There are plenty of rapists to go around, and some happen to be on this site.

I've seen a number of reference to guns and small penises by men. But for some reason, you only put the women on ignore, or you assume they are all women. I wonder why that is the case? I myself never make such comments. To do so is intellectually weak, like calling a woman a bitch. The problem with people (there may be a few women among them) who feel a need to stockpile assault rifles is far more serious than anatomy. The fact that such people exist in this nation and that we have built our laws around accommodating them is a sign of a profound cultural sickness. It is far too perverse and deadly to be funny.

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me. I made that very clear in the OP. I said I believe I have the right to be challenged on my ideas rather than be insulted because I am a woman. Being challenged for ideas assumes disagreement.

Just why would you wander into a feminist group? Given your delicate sensibilities, I'd think you would put the entire group on ignore (i.e. trash it). Women here even talk about rape. It would be unfortunate if you felt personally insulted by evil rape survivors.

reverend_tim

(105 posts)
100. Ah, I did not wander into a feminist group, your post or crossed over to the "Latest" category.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:56 PM
Jan 2013

There I found your title intriguing.

As far as your comment that " do not think there is one woman in this forum, that you just had to make this comment to, that would not object to that insult toward men." I may only say that only two of the three replys to my suggestion are visible to me.

As for trashing the group, I thank you for the suggestion, and I will give it serious consideration.
Have a nice inauguration day !

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
104. Latest?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:24 PM
Jan 2013

It's nearly 36 hours old. I have twice wandered into the Gungeon through the latest page, but I had enough sense to know I was on hostile ground.

I didn't write the sentence you quote. As a result, it's difficult to follow your meaning. I will simply point out that the absence of evidence is not evidence at all.

reverend_tim

(105 posts)
106. YUP
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:10 PM
Jan 2013

Politics 2013
License plate seen in Northern Virginia today: "N8RBOY" The plates were from North Dakota.
By madinmaryland - 1:58 PM
General Discussion
The family that tans together . . . ?
By proud2BlibKansan - 1:56 PM
General Discussion
Two very happy families today...
By Playinghardball - 1:56 PM
History of Feminism
What I've learned on DU
Milestone: 100 replies @ 1:56 PM
General Discussion
"Seneca Falls, and Selma, and Stonewall" - Thank you Mr. President
By pinto - 1:55 PM


so how do I do this trash thing ?

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
107. At the top
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:26 PM
Jan 2013

There is a toolbar of sorts where you can trash the forum

At the bottom, another place where you can trash the thread. It sounds as though you need the first option.

Response to reverend_tim (Reply #106)

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
86. I wonder how many males think it's okay
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:34 AM
Jan 2013

because they want the freedom to call some other guy a "dick" with impunity?

Or because they want women to have the freedom to call another woman a "bitch?" How generous.

Or is it that more freedom of hostility is always better? All's fair when you're pissed off enough?

Bitch is definitely not gender neutral.

I'm just wondering what the rationalizations are?
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
92. good point. i have discussed this when it became a mantra from men. i told them, call it out, alert
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:02 PM
Jan 2013

when they are offended by the comments made about men.

literally, they told me, they are not bothered by it really, just pointing out the hypocrisy.

it has also been pointed out by men on du that it is us feminists, HOF, that must take up their battle. i told them i will support them, but it is not my fight, it is theirs.

yes, you properly identified what it is really all about.

i took the time to address it a month or two ago. and they were clear in letting me know, really, that is what it is about.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
109. same as they tell us to fight for "men's equality too" if equality is what we want....
Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:00 AM
Jan 2013

our fave tree cutter and that kid who posted the video just this week. i'm sorry- they might ask well ask me to fetch them a beer, LOL.

i asked, a few dozen times, why aren't you guys doing anything at all for yourselves... lots of whining about the mens rights groups. then a little bit about how some men volunteer to help boys in juvie hall- like scared straight. yeah, they don't give a fuck really enough to be activists over anything.
just more "pity me" derailing

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
110. There are men who take these issues seriously,
Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:33 AM
Jan 2013

ones who actively work to raise awareness of the issues facing men.
e.g. http://www.unesco.org/cpp/uk/declarations/osloabs.htm
They've been working for decades to be heard.

Unfortunately, the MRA shit panders to male egos, and its so much easier (and fun, apparently) to simply act as anti-feminists, fighting women's groups, instead of doing any actual work to address the masculinity crisis.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
111. well thanks, Red! And I agree it's all about the ego. What totally cracks me up though is the
Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:56 AM
Jan 2013

frequent suggestion that feminist women should be advocating for men too. I guess this is so they will have more time for Xbox?
Sorry guys, if it was important enough to you, you'd be doing something. And if we did it for you, you'd inevitably be issuing edicts from your big chair, in between tv commercials, on how we're "doing it wrong".

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
112. LOL, yes, well women (in general) are still expected to do most of the housework
Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:01 PM
Jan 2013

even in partnerships where both people work, so this 'do it for me' attitude is hardly new.

What really galls me is the 'don't be a feminist be an equalist' or a 'humanist' crap.

Have you seen the 'equality vs. justice' or 'equality is not the same thing as justice' graphics that have gone viral?

Yeah, that. They can shove that anti-feminist shit up their noses.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
113. when they ask us to do their clean up (of society) , I am completely unable to take them seriously
Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:26 PM
Jan 2013

to me, that's just spoiled, self centered and lazy. SMH and laughs.








roody

(10,849 posts)
103. I've been here a long time.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:17 PM
Jan 2013

I only read threads that interest me, and as soon as a name calling argument starts, I move on.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
105. that explains why you've survived so long
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:26 PM
Jan 2013

Good for you. What do you do about insulting juror comments?

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