LMAO... you know what i am having a problem with?

[seabeyond]

i hate this, lol. my huge problem today? we have hillary facing down men in congress. we have women in combat and what am i seeing too much of? LADY. i keep picturing a woman, sitting demurely, legs properly crossed at the ankles and tucked under chair, hands on lap, and bowed head.

WOMEN. they are women. not ladies.

sigh...

my bad?

can we picture a bunch of "ladies" in combat? did hillary appear as a "lady?

[CherokeeDem]

1. I see Ladies in the pic of the soldiers....

My mother taught me that a lady was someone strong and honorable, who treated people with respect and acted appropriately in all situations. According to my mother, a very Southern woman, posture and clothing do not make a lady; attitude does. Perhaps my mom was a bit ahead of her time!

But I hear you...we keep these stereotypes in our heads no matter how hard we try.

And Hillary...no matter what you call her, you have to call her spectacular.

[seabeyond]

2. we are talking about a level playing field here, and i think the term matters, toward that goal.

la·dy [ley-dee] Show IPA noun, plural la·dies, adjective
noun
1.
a woman who is refined, polite, and well-spoken: She may be poor and have little education, but she's a real lady.
2.
a woman of high social position or economic class: She was born a lady and found it hard to adjust to her reduced circumstances.

wom·an [woom-uhn] Show IPA noun, plural wom·en [wim-in] Show IPA , verb, adjective
noun
1.
the female human being ( distinguished from man ).
2.
an adult female person.

[Mosby]

3. I always thought that it's a respectful, polite term for (a) women.

And there seems to be different meanings for singular vs plural.

For example I refer to the "ladies" working in the back room at the store, how would it sound if I were to say "the women in the back room decided...." Vs the "the ladies in the back room decided....".

When I worked at chain stores what I heard a lot from other managers was "the girls in the back room....". I never call female employees girls.

[seabeyond]

4. i am glad you do not call women, girls. that is good. personally,

i think we have been conditioned that women is like old, or some kind of insult. i too had to get out of the habit of saying ladies and girls. saying woman was new to me also. it has been about a year and i love it. i asked myself, why are we acting like the word woman is an insult. it isnt. it is a strong word (grown up) and we use much weaker words (infantile) to describe women.

lady is used for rules society set up (patriarchy) in how men decided they need to behave.

and it is totally inappropriate in an equal setting. be it in front of congress, or in the military. unless we are calling the men .... gentlemen. which we do not. that should be the clear indicator.

[ismnotwasm]

5. You out of all the words used to describe women

That is one I think a feminist could use and 'reclaim', if done from a position of strength. As it is, it still implies weakness, subdued sexuality and lies toward the Madonna end of the Madonna/whore complex.

But, it has its possibilities.

[seabeyond]

6. as i was typing that post, i was thinking just that.

talk about owning a word. one of value and strength. you betcha.

[Whisp]

8. this is my understanding of the 3 words for women:

girls: obvious that girls is meant to demean a grown woman and place her in a child's role compared to the male adult role.

ladies: I don't find this particularly bad in this day and age because I think to an extent, this word has been refurbished and renovated to become something different but historically I think it meant that if you were a lady you would never challenge a man in conversation or anything else. You must speak softly and always bow to others. And look purdy, you got to look and smell nice.

women: I think why this is/has been avoided as the proper term to use is the word 'woman' means she is a sexual adult that can think for herself. She is not the child girl nor the whimpery whispery lady, she can yell, she can get angry besides all the other normal human emotions and reactions we all have. Woman is as equal as possible with the language we have and that is why some men feel uncomfortable with it.

[seabeyond]

9. you said it well. nt

[Whisp]

7. doesn't bother me too much.

especially when it is a woman who is addressing a group of women as Ladies.

I'm sure some male soldiers are addressed as Gentleman sometimes.

[One_Life_To_Give]

10. Yes I can

I always assumed Margaret Corbin looked m ore like the former than the latter as she fought the British. Presumably Mary McCauly as well. I presume the numerous women who disguised themselves as men to fight looked little different from the rest of the troops. And none of the pictured subjects seem to have Bodica's Red Hair

[seabeyond]

11. everything about them says... woman. none of it says "lady". that is the point. thank you

for the awesome pictures.

[One_Life_To_Give]

13. Guess I am old fashioned

I have known some awesome Ladies.

[seabeyond]

14. why would you have an objection to use woman? why do you feel that "lady" is a greater compliment

to a woman, than using the word woman.

you understand in your stance to hold to the term of lady, regardless of the restrictions being a lady confines a woman to, it is suggesting being a lady is somehow better, than being a woman.

this is what i am talking about with our societal conditioning's of the terms. hence the OP. so thanks for the insight, and call women whatever you want. not a huge battle for me, really just thinking things thru.

[One_Life_To_Give]

15. May be my age

Calling my mother a Woman is like calling her a Female. Correct enough but she will always be a Lady to me.

[seabeyond]

16. do you feel the same with man? do men not embrace the term? from the youngest of age

wanting to hear, know, that they are finally men? go out of their way to proclaim and own the word man?

yet, you do not allow the same for women. it is merely a female. and a lady is so much more.

this is where the issue is.

[One_Life_To_Give]

17. Man vs Gentleman

Why would one only want to be a man? Is Obama merely a man or a Gentleman? Seems to me he is the later.

[seabeyond]

18. again, this post shows the difference. you cannot say, no... a gentlemen. because man is too

strong and positive and valued to ignore. but, your statement that woman is merely female and your mom would always be a lady. there is a difference in those two statements also, between men and women. every step of the way, you ignore the point, ... to hold to lady. but, wow, i wish people would read this subthread to see how ingrained we are that either infantiling women or restricting her behavior is honoring woman. whole, man alone, is strong, valued and positive.

anyway, thanks for the conversation. basically, you confirmed and reinforced why i feel it is so important for women, to take back woman.

and it was fun. and it was a respectful conversation. so thanks.

[One_Life_To_Give]

19. You are correct

There is something inherently unequal in how all those terms are used by myself and others.

[ismnotwasm]

12. I adore that picture

The stance, the spear--with strong forearms. Hair not an issue. Skirt fabric looks as though it could be tied up for movement-- and who knows what you can hide. Wrap or blanket for warmth, collar would help protect neck. Just general badassness.

[CrispyQ]

20. I always thought lady/ladies was a more formal term for woman/women.

Similar to the term gentlemen.

[redqueen]

21. I don't hate the word, but it needs to have a very particular context

in order for it not to seem ... weird.

It is a word which denotes a woman who is married into royalty, and is well behaved. The patriarchal connotations, as well as the privilege inherent in the word do not sit well with me.

It's archaic afaic.

But some people seem to be trying to reclaim it with a new meaning I guess.