Feminazis stole my ice cream!

[ismnotwasm]

A quick editorial cartoon about the intersection of self-pity, entitlement, rape, territoriality, misogyny and fear of women. You see it all over the place online in the form of Men’s Rights Activists (of whom there are a few reasonable non-misogynists), Men Going Their Own Way, Pick Up Artists, and dudes touting the “Red Pill”, because The Matrix is a good movie. Look any of these up if you have the stomach for it. These are extreme examples, but watered-down forms of these ideas are everywhere.
In lurking their blogs and youtube channels for a while, I’ve noticed that beyond the standard patriarchal chauvinism there is this deep fear of women – what they will do to me, how they will reject me, how they will use me, how they are changing society in a way that does not favor me, how they are making men into something I don’t like, how they are making themselves into something I don’t like, that they won’t give me what I want, and that they won’t give me what I think is rightfully mine. This goes beyond fear of feminism- this is fear of women at its purest. And that, to quote a puppet, leads to anger and hate. It’s sad.
I am a feminist. I think there’s enough ice cream to go around, but it does mean those of us with 3 scoops might have to give one or two up. Also, The Matrix is a fun movie but probably not anything you should be basing a philosophy on.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/05/feminazis-stole-my-ice-cream/

[Laelth]

1. Generally speaking, I think men are quite afraid of women.

I have to agree with you there.

As a result, women seem to have two options. The first would be to deal with reality and to accept that men are what they are, i.e. generally afraid of women (perhaps with good reason). The second would be to work toward the eradication of all men and, thereby, create a "better" world--one without all those paternalistic, vicious, territorial, predatory, and stupid men.

Your choice, ultimately.

-Laelth

[ismnotwasm]

2. You realize the article is speaking of particular groups of MRA 's and PUA's?

Why would I want to live in a world without men? Without my husband? Or my Son? Or my friends?

They're not afraid of me, I'm not afraid of them They love me and I love them-- you know, healthy relationships.

[Laelth]

6. I hear you, and I agree with the French on this. "Vive la differance!"

But I was suggesting that while the author of the blog cited above might have intended her comments to apply to only limited groups of particularly "primitive" men, she hit upon a truth that I think applies to most men--i.e. that they're generally afraid of women.

Just wondering what the world might look like to those who were willing to even remotely consider this thought.

Regards,

-Laelth

[ismnotwasm]

9. That is simply not my experience

For instance, Right now, my husband is going to get me something from the store and a male friend of ours is mowing the lawn. (I too lazy today and my husband has MS, and has a hard time with that kind of activity) our neighbor up the street is having a yard sale because he's moving. I got a great Easel board from him. Later, we might meet up with another male friend for coffee. There is no fear here. Just.. Life on a sunny day.

[Laelth]

10. I am glad to hear that the men in your life are fearless (in regards to women).

Nevertheless, as the author of the OP noted, I think that most men are afraid of women.

I maintain that one of the fundamental requirements for being a liberal is the ability to see the world as it is (not as we wish it to be). Only when we see the world as it is can we construct reasonable and workable solutions to the problems that face us.

The author of the blog featured in the OP and I agree that many (if not most) men are afraid of women. The question then becomes what, if anything, are we willing and able to do about that.

Regards,

-Laelth

[ismnotwasm]

13. You know what?

I'll ask around, I have lots of male friends and the question is worth a informal survey of my world. I have a very close friend who is MTF transgender, she often can give me deeper insight as well.

There a small get together coming up and I'll ask. I expect to hear fear of rejection before I hear actual fear, but I'll push a little bit.

[Laelth]

16. That's really cool. I appreciate your open-mindedness on this subject.

I will warn you, though, that most men will never admit that they're afraid of women. In a nutshell, that's my explanation for the majority of the men who vote for Republicans. Because they can't admit that they're afraid of women, they transfer that fear onto others--commies, foreigners, illegal aliens, liberals, people with darker skin, etc. The cognitive dissonance of simultaneously loving women, wanting women, and needing women combined with their fear and (sometimes) hatred of women is just too much to bear ... thus lots of folks regularly vote against their best interests. They vote for the penis party, instead ... because it is women that they really fear. They just can't see it or admit it.

This, I think, is the central and over-arching political problem of our time. That's why I am willing to engage my liberal allies on this very touchy subject.

Regards,

-Laelth

[ismnotwasm]

19. I'll let you know

It will be few days, should be interesting. Among my male friends, one at least would be completely honest, as he soul searches a lot on his relationships.

[Laelth]

20. Thank you. I will appreciate hearing the results of your inquiries. n/t

-Laelth

[redqueen]

3. Straight men are also afraid of gay men. Not so much as in the past, but read your post

and substitute the terms and see how that sounds to you.

[Laelth]

4. Interesting thought experiment.

I tried it. Assuming that many straight men are afraid of gay men (presumably because gay men are a threat to the rigid, socially-constructed, male identities that most men are heavily pressured to create and maintain), and assuming that straight men have two options (accept the gays for what they are or eliminate them), I would choose to accept them for what they are.

That said, I am wondering why some very intelligent and otherwise-reasonable women are resistant to extending the same courtesy to men.

Sorry if I missed your point, but I am open to discussing this with you further if you are so inclined.

-Laelth

[redqueen]

5. In the first post you said the less-privileged group should accept the privileged group as they are

In this one, you switched it around.

Why?

[Laelth]

8. Ah, yes. I see what you mean.

OK. Let's try it. Assuming straight men are scared of gay men (for the reasons I cited above), gay men have a choice to either accept straight men as they are or to work toward the eradication of straight men. Again, I would choose to accept straight men for what they are as opposed to working toward their eradication.

Not sure what you're driving at, but I don't see a lot of DU posts from gay men talking about how straight men need to be "reformed" (whatever that means) due to the fact that straight men are paternalistic, vicious, territorial, predatory, and stupid. Perhaps I just missed those posts.

Regards,

-Laelth

[seabeyond]

15. hey.. what about education, progressiveness, evolving. that can happen you know. it would be like

it would be like sitting in the 50's and saying, lets accept everything the way it is.

no fuckin way. lets EDUCATE.

[Laelth]

17. Well, certainly.

One option would be to change men. First, I would argue that women made us men what we are (mostly), and that it's a bit grating to hear women complain that they don't like the people that they produced and that those very people need to be changed. If you believe, as I do, that the majority of what we are (socially) is learned in the first five years of life, and if you concede that for most humans what they learn in those first five years is taught mostly by women (the primary caregivers), then it is those caregivers who need to be changed (i.e. women need to change), not the people they created, nurtured, and taught. It's very hard for anybody to change fundamental, core, identity-forming beliefs after the first five years of life.

That said, it's clear that Western women are changing, and they are re-shaping future generations of both men and women in remarkable ways. The twentieth century was a period of rapid and dramatic change in gender roles, and women did this, as they always have done, in response to changes in the world. Nothing wrong with that. It's just natural. Mothers give their children the tools they think they need to successfully navigate the world in which said children are born, and that world has changed dramatically over the past 150 years in terms of gender roles.

My concern is that we waste our energy trying to change men or expecting them to change. They are their mothers' children, and they love their mothers. They will not react well to anyone who tells them that what their mothers taught them was wrong. Thus, if you want to change the world, you need to change women (because women are the principal and primary transmitters of culture and the ultimate agents of change). This is as it should be, and as it always has been.

So, what to do with those "primitive" men who are resistant to change? Kill them? Or accept them as they are? Fight them and push them away, or try to find some way to value them and, as I said to a poster above, get them to stop voting against their best interests?

Here's the nut that I am trying to crack. I see too many men voting against their best interests. I see way too many women, as well, voting for Republicans. It's mind-boggling to me that any woman in the United States would vote for a Republican, and yet they do, in large numbers. Why? The only reasonable answer that I have been able to formulate centers around this very question. I think many women vote for Republicans because they deeply love the men in their lives, and they understand that the rapid changes that have occurred over the last 150 years have made this world into a place that is increasingly hostile to men.

Thus, I ask two questions. First, can we even see that? Second, if we can see it, what can we (or should we) do about it? I argue that we must do something about it if we can. The Republican Party is killing us, and it is fueled by the very dilemma that I identify in this post--a world that is increasingly hostile to men.

Honestly, I have no idea what to do about this problem, but, because I think it is so important, I am willing to tread dangerous ground in order to discuss this issue with my liberal allies.

Thanks for the response.

-Laelth

[seabeyond]

21. men do not fear women. men FEAR no longer controlling, dominating and being boss of women.

if that is the "change" that grates on you, that really is your issue.

i accept nothing less. being the woman that men insist they must be allowed to dominate because they want no part of change and they demand women accept it.

[Laelth]

22. Sadly, we have nothing further to discuss on this topic.

If you can not grant that men do, indeed, fear women, then it is pointless for us to talk about it.

I would, in closing, ask that you re-read posts #16 and #17 above so that you can at least understand that my aims are good, even if you believe my methods and precepts are erroneous. I further suggest that telling people what they should do makes for bad public policy. Right-wingers have been going on for decades about how people should not have sex before marriage and that they should, when in economic distress, pull themselves up by their boot-straps (whatever that means). My opinion is that telling people what they should think or should do is an exercise in futility. Telling people not to have sex before marriage is a pathetic solution to teen pregnancy just as telling people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is a pathetic solution to economic injustice. If your answer to men who fear women is that they "should" just get over it, let go, not feel victimized, learn something new, see the world from the point of view of women, and change themselves, then I see your advice as equally useless.

In my estimation, an effective liberal sees the world for what it is and then molds public policy to make the world a better place for all of us. If your only advice to the men and women who vote for Republicans (and against their best interests, for the reasons I described above) is to just get over it, then I must strongly protest and invite you to find a better way to bring those people to sanity--some method beyond just telling them what they should do.

Regards,

-Laelth

[MadrasT]

23. The fears are not equivalent.

“It is understandable that the perspectives of men and women on safety are so different--men and women live in different worlds...at core, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while at core, women are afraid men will kill them.”

― Gavin de Becker, The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence

[seabeyond]

24. what are mens "fears" of women? because i tell you, women are raped, beaten, dominated by men and

we do not go out in mass hating men out of our fears. there are not the same orgs, the same net sites, the same gathering of women dovoted to hating men out of fear.

so, tell me, what are men so fearful of women about?

you talk about first five years. that would be a WOMAN, a MOM, able to dominate a MALE, that society says... no no no. and the boys inability to have dominance at a young age cause he is a friggin CHILD and is not in the position to be dominate.

so, in all my errors in my post, explain to me what it is that men are so god damn fearful of with women that they have to hate them, as a group.... ?

[seabeyond]

7. fear is an illusion. a real pain felt when thinking of a past or future, but never a now.

why would i endorse allowing someone to feel a real pain that does not need to be. why would i want that life for someone i love?

[Laelth]

11. I must respectfully disagree.

I don't think fear is an illusion at all. I think fear is very real. In fact, I would go so far as to argue that the modern Republican Party is built upon fear--fear of communists, fear of socialists, fear of Muslims, fear of women, fear of gays, fear of people with darker skin, and the list goes on. Without fear, I argue, the Republican Party (as we know it) would not exist. Fear is very, very real, and it has very real effects upon the world in which we live.

Our choices are to either ignore these fears (by pretending they do not exist or pretending that they are not relevant) or to address them--try to understand them, try to ameliorate them, and try to make the world a better place by making it a little less frightening.

You may not wish for the men in your life to be fearful, but what if they are, regardless of your wishes? What then? My hope, here, was to open up a dialogue that might allow people to have greater understanding and compassion for one another. I hope I have done that, and I thank you for your response.

-Laelth

[redqueen]

12. In the effort to promote an understanding of our fears...

[Laelth]

18. Wow! I had not seen or heard that quote before, but ...

... from my experience, there is a lot of truth in that quote.

Thanks.

-Laelth

[seabeyond]

14. show me ONE very real fear in the now. edited.... to answer,

all those things, fear, is what some one CREATES will happen in the future. that is an illusion. there is nothing happening. it is all created in hte mind. nothing real happening.

the fear is real, but our mind creates it. there is not really anything happening. that is why i say, fear is an illusion. not real. it is created.

ya, address it. but be honest about it.

it is like vulnerable. we think being vulnerable we have to close ourselves off and protect. that in itself MAKES us vulnerable. because we have decided we need to protect something about us. dont worry about protecting and put it out there, and vulnerability is no longer there. it does not exist. cause you are not protecting anything.

words. meaning. and how we create.