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Sun Oct 27, 2013, 04:16 PM

Rape, alcohol and feminist posturing: On women who defend Emily Yoffe

Elsewhere, in a piece entitled Women, Please Stop Getting Wasted Evann Gastaldo reminds us that “it’s possible to have fun without binge drinking” (hey, at least she said “please”). Maclean’s’ Emma Teitel, meanwhile, suggests the alternative to telling women not to drink — teaching rapists not to rape — is akin to telling “terrorists not to terrorize, dictators not to dictate, hit men not to hit men and con men not to con” (raping is now, apparently, a vocation rather than a form of interaction which thrives on being culturally condoned).

So much for the sisterhood. The thing is, I don’t really believe any of these articles has much to do with beliefs about rape, alcohol and risk. I don’t know whether, deep down, these women believe what they’re writing. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t. What I am sensing, however, is a form of posturing in relation to women in general and feminists in particular. The other women — those who deride Yoffe’s views — are casts as hysterical, over-emotional, lacking in reason (typical “female” qualities). The likes of Marcus, Wente, Matchar et al are, by contrast, measured, thoughtful, eminently reasonable (so much so, they could almost be men!). What’s taking place here isn’t so much a debate about rape prevention as an attack on uppity, demanding feminists and their strident views. It’s a mode of differentiation — “I’m not one of them! I’m rational!” — that isn’t actually coherent yet manages to persuade by its constant self-identification as the voice of reason.

This is particularly clear in Marcus’s piece, in which we’re told that “the regime of feminist political correctness that chills discussion” and “this isn’t a gender studies class; it’s the real world” (no, it’s not; it’s a rape apologist op-ed). Wente notes that Yoffe was “torn apart by furious feminists” (using their evil harpy claws, presumably). This pseudo-intellectual posturing, with its resigned sigh (“why am I the only woman with any sense?”) isn’t at all new, of course. It’s there in Victoria Coren’s recent call for “nuance” regarding Roman Polanski, and it was there twenty years ago when Katie Roiphe wrote The Morning After. These clever, clever women are far too clever to get angry about the world and want to change it. How silly! Far better to breathe deeply, smile and advise the rest of the female population to calm down, dear. After all, it’s only common sense.


http://glosswatch.com/2013/10/27/rape-alcohol-and-feminist-posturing-on-women-who-defend-emily-yoffe/

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 06:25 PM

2. Well of course

But dialogue is dialogue and what's happening is blaming the victim instead of the criminal. Women already get escorted to their cars of a dark night, carry mace, take sled defense courses, become reclusive, travel in groups, watch their drinks,--many things we do for "rape prevention"

But when the dialogue starts with look, don't drink to excess or you might get raped, implying if you do drink to excess it's your fault while men have no such prohibitions, we have a bigger problem.

Say a drunken man is robbed and even murdered, is the FIRST reaction to say "Don't drink to excess, you might get robbed and/ or murdered?

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Response to Post removed (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 06:40 PM

3. There is no woman on the planet

that needs to be educated or informed that putting herself in a "dicey situation" might lead to rape.

Not one.

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Response to MadrasT (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 06:55 PM

4. Exactly

Which is why this whole "don't get drunk" debate is so disgusting and dangerous. Seen from the perspective of rape culture this attitude actually gives "permission" to the rapists. Those ones who like to brag "She was so drunk she let me do this and that" yes, that is a rapist. Society teaches them they are not.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 11:14 PM

6. you are wrong. our rapists have to learn what rape is, and it is not acceptable, and it is not a

 

biological need, and you do not get away with it if you have money, or are a professional athlete, that it is not entertainment to get off on, that it is not only the strangers behind the bushes.

and shit happens. that is not what the conversation is. we are still addressing the rapist, not the woman rape. it throws away the argument then to go into a discussion about the womans choices and cannot be undone. well, fuckin, duh. but that really has nothing to do with anything.

All that I'm saying here is that until we have perfected human nature, we have to live with it as it is.
and this is simply vomit inducing. are you really say it is human nature for boy and man to rape? cause that would be 100% of our boys and men. you a rapist? you want to own that fuckin disgusting bullshit?

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Response to Post removed (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 11:17 PM

7. well fuck, we have another man telling us rape is all about human nature, biology and FEW posts,

 

lots of years on du

so many of the damn ... hardly ever post, ever but have been here for a long time really have the desire to use the very few posts of theirs telling us disgusting misogynist bullshit. too too too consistent, common and coincidental.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2013, 11:10 PM

5. "akin to telling “terrorists not to terrorize" we can start by understanding the "rapist" is the boy

 

next door and not some creepy scary monster that is a stranger. that thru our cultures our boys are literally being taught that it is their PRIVILEGE to rape, because after all they are biologically inclined and they are to get it in any clever manipulative way they can.

maybe we might start there.

you know, the pro football player that rapes.... GO TO FUCKIN JAIL. instead of allowing him to continue to be a quarterback and even say that now he made it to the superbowl, this action redeems him. WTF

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Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 08:13 AM

8. All I can say to Emily and to people who defend her has already been said...

... by this lovely soul!

http://www.jaclynfriedman.com/in-defense-of-going-wild-or-how-i-stopped-worrying-and-learned-to-love-pleasure-and-how-you-can-too

Adding an excerpt, because it's well worth it:

Let’s look a little more closely at that correlation between rape and alcohol, for example. That’s not a correlation between female drinking and rape. It’s a correlation between all drinking and rape. In fact, studies have shown that it’s more likely that a male rapist has been drinking than that his female victim has. So if we want to raise awareness about the links between drinking and rape, we should start by getting the word out to men (who are, after all, the overwhelming majority of rapists) that alcohol is likely to impair their ability to respond appropriately if a sexual partner says no. (This would, not incidentally, be much easier to do if we taught both women and men to seek enthusiastic consent in their partners, not just the absence of “no.”) When was the last time you read about that anywhere? When we discuss drinking and rape and neglect to shine the light on men’s drinking, we play into the same victim blaming that makes it so easy for men to rape women in the first place.

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Response to moriah (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:10 AM

9. i think it is too easy to say, that women have to be aware to avoid. totally ignoring the big

 

elephant in the room. the boy/man that rapes. have we yet to hear that the rapist tends to have been drinking, ergo his judgment impaired? we have not. this, your post, is the first time we have heard this. yet it is such an obvious duh. we have used it as an excuse, but not as a means of educating them not to drink to the point, or being educated that with drink, they tend to loose "their ability to respond appropriately if a sexual partner says no."

i isnt this so much more overwhelmingly discussed then a girl/woman drinking.

i put girl/woman, boy/man cause so much of it is with our youth and the differences have to be defined.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:18 AM

10. We only hear of it as a reason to NOT blame the drunk rapist.

How many times have you heard the whole "If they're both drunk, did they rape each other?" bullshit?

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Response to moriah (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:25 AM

11. yes. you point is so very good, or the authors. gives us just another angle to look at it.

 

i have not explained this perspective to the boys, in their responsibility. we have talked about making damn sure there is enthusiasm. not just a silence. or a conjoling. or half hearted yes thru pressure. but enthusiasm.

but now, i really want to talk about how drinking allows a guy to not think thru. and his part in it. and it defining him as a rapist.

what i have learned over time, is the rapist is not the scary monster. the rapist can be a perfectly fine boy, that thru alcohol generally, allows what he know to be right, or behavior he would never consider to be ok, to be overlooked at the time of drinking fog. and THAT makes him a rapist.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:31 AM

12. It happens.

And in my case, I knew the person's mother quite well. I never spoke to her after it happened, because I couldn't look her in the eyes. I knew that she would viscerally defend her son, even though I also knew she knew he was capable of doing wrong -- I didn't want her to have to hear my side until court because I knew it would tear her apart, she knew me and knew I wouldn't make anything up, and I didn't want her to blame herself. It never went that far.

Of course, I also think the enthusiastic consent portion would have covered what happened in my case, if they remembered it when they were drunk and saw the passed-out girl on the couch.

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Response to moriah (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:40 AM

13. we as a culture and society still teach our girls to be coy, and teach our boys to pressure.

 

this has got to be debunked.

as long as we make virginity and a womans sexuality as a "gift". as long as we condemn a womans enjoyment of her sexuality. as long as we repress a womans sexuality. we will have this.

i think about you and your experience. i just think you had tremendous courage.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #13)

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:44 AM

14. It's hard.

Especially when you internalize victim-blaming. And most of us do internalize some of that outward societal voice.

"Just because something's not the smartest decision you've ever made doesn't make you stupid." That's one of my affirmations.

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Response to moriah (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:48 AM

15. ya.

 

well. just is not all that hard for me. and all those years ago and so young. it was clear, that it was not about me.

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