History of Feminism
Related: About this forumRape, alcohol and feminist posturing: On women who defend Emily Yoffe
So much for the sisterhood. The thing is, I dont really believe any of these articles has much to do with beliefs about rape, alcohol and risk. I dont know whether, deep down, these women believe what theyre writing. Maybe they do, maybe they dont. What I am sensing, however, is a form of posturing in relation to women in general and feminists in particular. The other women those who deride Yoffes views are casts as hysterical, over-emotional, lacking in reason (typical female qualities). The likes of Marcus, Wente, Matchar et al are, by contrast, measured, thoughtful, eminently reasonable (so much so, they could almost be men!). Whats taking place here isnt so much a debate about rape prevention as an attack on uppity, demanding feminists and their strident views. Its a mode of differentiation Im not one of them! Im rational! that isnt actually coherent yet manages to persuade by its constant self-identification as the voice of reason.
This is particularly clear in Marcuss piece, in which were told that the regime of feminist political correctness that chills discussion and this isnt a gender studies class; its the real world (no, its not; its a rape apologist op-ed). Wente notes that Yoffe was torn apart by furious feminists (using their evil harpy claws, presumably). This pseudo-intellectual posturing, with its resigned sigh (why am I the only woman with any sense?) isnt at all new, of course. Its there in Victoria Corens recent call for nuance regarding Roman Polanski, and it was there twenty years ago when Katie Roiphe wrote The Morning After. These clever, clever women are far too clever to get angry about the world and want to change it. How silly! Far better to breathe deeply, smile and advise the rest of the female population to calm down, dear. After all, its only common sense.
http://glosswatch.com/2013/10/27/rape-alcohol-and-feminist-posturing-on-women-who-defend-emily-yoffe/
Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)
Post removed
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)But dialogue is dialogue and what's happening is blaming the victim instead of the criminal. Women already get escorted to their cars of a dark night, carry mace, take sled defense courses, become reclusive, travel in groups, watch their drinks,--many things we do for "rape prevention"
But when the dialogue starts with look, don't drink to excess or you might get raped, implying if you do drink to excess it's your fault while men have no such prohibitions, we have a bigger problem.
Say a drunken man is robbed and even murdered, is the FIRST reaction to say "Don't drink to excess, you might get robbed and/ or murdered?
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)that needs to be educated or informed that putting herself in a "dicey situation" might lead to rape.
Not one.
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)Which is why this whole "don't get drunk" debate is so disgusting and dangerous. Seen from the perspective of rape culture this attitude actually gives "permission" to the rapists. Those ones who like to brag "She was so drunk she let me do this and that" yes, that is a rapist. Society teaches them they are not.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)biological need, and you do not get away with it if you have money, or are a professional athlete, that it is not entertainment to get off on, that it is not only the strangers behind the bushes.
and shit happens. that is not what the conversation is. we are still addressing the rapist, not the woman rape. it throws away the argument then to go into a discussion about the womans choices and cannot be undone. well, fuckin, duh. but that really has nothing to do with anything.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)lots of years on du
so many of the damn ... hardly ever post, ever but have been here for a long time really have the desire to use the very few posts of theirs telling us disgusting misogynist bullshit. too too too consistent, common and coincidental.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)next door and not some creepy scary monster that is a stranger. that thru our cultures our boys are literally being taught that it is their PRIVILEGE to rape, because after all they are biologically inclined and they are to get it in any clever manipulative way they can.
maybe we might start there.
you know, the pro football player that rapes.... GO TO FUCKIN JAIL. instead of allowing him to continue to be a quarterback and even say that now he made it to the superbowl, this action redeems him. WTF
moriah
(8,311 posts)... by this lovely soul!
http://www.jaclynfriedman.com/in-defense-of-going-wild-or-how-i-stopped-worrying-and-learned-to-love-pleasure-and-how-you-can-too
Adding an excerpt, because it's well worth it:
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)elephant in the room. the boy/man that rapes. have we yet to hear that the rapist tends to have been drinking, ergo his judgment impaired? we have not. this, your post, is the first time we have heard this. yet it is such an obvious duh. we have used it as an excuse, but not as a means of educating them not to drink to the point, or being educated that with drink, they tend to loose "their ability to respond appropriately if a sexual partner says no."
i isnt this so much more overwhelmingly discussed then a girl/woman drinking.
i put girl/woman, boy/man cause so much of it is with our youth and the differences have to be defined.
moriah
(8,311 posts)How many times have you heard the whole "If they're both drunk, did they rape each other?" bullshit?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i have not explained this perspective to the boys, in their responsibility. we have talked about making damn sure there is enthusiasm. not just a silence. or a conjoling. or half hearted yes thru pressure. but enthusiasm.
but now, i really want to talk about how drinking allows a guy to not think thru. and his part in it. and it defining him as a rapist.
what i have learned over time, is the rapist is not the scary monster. the rapist can be a perfectly fine boy, that thru alcohol generally, allows what he know to be right, or behavior he would never consider to be ok, to be overlooked at the time of drinking fog. and THAT makes him a rapist.
moriah
(8,311 posts)And in my case, I knew the person's mother quite well. I never spoke to her after it happened, because I couldn't look her in the eyes. I knew that she would viscerally defend her son, even though I also knew she knew he was capable of doing wrong -- I didn't want her to have to hear my side until court because I knew it would tear her apart, she knew me and knew I wouldn't make anything up, and I didn't want her to blame herself. It never went that far.
Of course, I also think the enthusiastic consent portion would have covered what happened in my case, if they remembered it when they were drunk and saw the passed-out girl on the couch.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)this has got to be debunked.
as long as we make virginity and a womans sexuality as a "gift". as long as we condemn a womans enjoyment of her sexuality. as long as we repress a womans sexuality. we will have this.
i think about you and your experience. i just think you had tremendous courage.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Especially when you internalize victim-blaming. And most of us do internalize some of that outward societal voice.
"Just because something's not the smartest decision you've ever made doesn't make you stupid." That's one of my affirmations.
well. just is not all that hard for me. and all those years ago and so young. it was clear, that it was not about me.