So-called "rape fantasies"

[KitSileya]

I was just reading the rape culture thread on Shakesville, and Melissa McEwan said something in a reply to a young woman who was wondering whether her "rape fantasies" were a manifestation of rape culture. McEwan said

Wanting to be, or fantasizing about being, "raped" is not really about rape. It may be about regaining control of one's own sexuality; if one has previously been sexually assaulted, fantasizing about being assaulted can be a way of trying to claim control over the event. The same is often true for women who have never been raped, but harbor a profound fear of being raped.

To me, it sounds so very very right, even tho I hadn't thought of it that way before. Seabeyond, Bainsbane et al have tried to explain that rape fantasies is the very antithesis to rape, because the woman is in control, but I hadn't considered why so many women have "rape" fantasies.

[KitSileya]

2. Yeah, I read it when you posted it.

But it was definitely worth a reread. Thanks!

[BainsBane]

3. Or if they are even rape

That is my issue. Where does the word rape come from in describing those fantasies? If psychologists asked the woman to describe it in her own terms, would she use the word rape? Or is that a term male psychologists have imposed to categorize women's fantasies?

I don't think they are about rape at all. I think that "rape fantasy" is an oxymoron. If you fantasize about something, you want it on some level, if only as a fantasy. You are therefore consenting so it cannot be rape.

[MadrasT]

4. Exactly so.

If you are fantasizing about something YOU WANT IT ergo IT IS NOT ABOUT ACTUAL "RAPE".

Jesus people are either dense or willfully blind.

All this rape talk is a blatant way of reminding women who thinks they are in charge. And fuck them all, no they are not.

I am the boss of me.

Every woman is the boss of herself.

Full fucking stop.

They can take all this rape talk and go pound sand.

[KitSileya]

5. I agree, and you and Seabeyond explained it most excellently.

However, none are so blind as those who do not want to see, and the rape apologists in these threads are clenching their eyes shut and sticking fingers in their ears and singing na-na-na.

Also, I put "rape fantasies" in quotations marks just to emphasize that they are not, in fact, about rape at all. The only thing they have to do with rape is that women use them to counter the stress and regain control from rape culture, as Melissa McEwan said.

[ismnotwasm]

6. Some, and these are the ones I strongly identify with the MRA movement

Deny there is such a thing as rape culture.

[BainsBane]

9. They deny the label

But articulate the exact same arguments. They get those ridiculous outdated studies somewhere. I'll bet dollars to donuts it's a MRAsma site. Ultimately, what matters is that they advance reactionary views of gender that reveal an intense hatred for women.

[BainsBane]

7. Evidently our visitor last night missed this thread

Or he would have come in here to tell us what the fantasies of "real feminists" should be.

[JI7]

8. i think it's how people use terms like "violent" rape or "forced rape"

any fantasy about what someone wants is not rape.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. questions

do these women need the rape porn to help them fulfill their fantasies? is any rape porn fiction? are the women in rape porn in control? how can they be if it is a man directing the scene. if it is a woman directing the scene ...?

[KitSileya]

11. This is absolutely not about rape porn

This is about the "a stranger comes and ravages me and I can do nothing but enjoy it (because he magically does exactly what I like)"-fantasies. It's what some rape porn enthusiasts claim legitimises rape porn, because "over half of all women have rape fantasies". As I've said elsewhere on this threaf, Seabeyond and Bainsbane have explained how this is not fantasies about rape, and I'm trying to explore to what degree these fantasies are in fact a response, a rebuttal if you will, where women take back control and counter the anxiety that rape culture, enforced by rape porn, for example, creates in women

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. yes, I am trying to understand it, too. Hence the questions.

I am wondering if these women that have this fantasy watch and condone rape porn and why.

Yes, BB and seabeyond have done and are doing an excellent job.

How do we address the First Amendment Angle?

And, why are there some women who are still arguing for the rape porn?

and when we talk about rape then rape porn is a subset of that topic, no?

[One_Life_To_Give]

13. Cultural baggage

Petty-coating and other forced feminisation fantasies are about absolving guilt. In that case the "guilt" of a man desiring to be a woman or girl. Culturally feels he can't admit it but if forced, then it's "not his fault". Although it is what he most desires.

I suspect likewise many women have felt pressured to be the "good girl". Therefor a fantasy where she is a reluctant participant allows her to not become a $%&@ as it's not her fault. JMHO.

[seabeyond]

14. the whole "good girl" thing is very strong. yes. has been so many many years, lol, decades

since the "good girl" days. yes.

the "good girl"

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. another question - and a comment on the state of DU

Question -
how can one even talk about the economics of any industry (much less a subset of an industry) when these Bozos don't even understand the basic economic terminology of supply and demand .... I had to quit on that.
Dude, playing dumb and dumber. fuck the dumb. outta that thread. waste of my time.

Comment -
I know these men are a small, very vocal group of DU and, I am glad of it and thankful there are only a handful of ignorant women egging them on.
Honestly, looking at it this way ... DU is in good shape.
It really is more about all the DUers who stay out of these threads than the ones in them.