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intaglio

(8,170 posts)
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:59 AM Apr 2014

A Glossary of MRAs feel free to add

MRA - Mens Rights Activist. Can include all of the current mysogynist/rape enabling culture but at its least offensive just mean men who feel hard done by because women are fighting back against rape, coercion, underpayment, business discrimination and laws that restrict womens freedom. These men believe that women are now protected by a misanthropic the legal system (I face palmed as I wrote this sentence). These MRAs are, essentially, whiners who want to go back to the good old days of the 1950s when pipe smoking real men with ties protected the little woman from all harm, could give any girl a friendly slap on the bum and men were not emasculated by the culture.

There are a few women who support this load of ballocks, ball cocks ball valves, some because of their religious faith (often the Church of the GOP) but some seem to be Subs searching for, or obeying their, Doms.

Red Pill Redditors - MRAs with leet computing skillz, they believe they have taken the red pill of the Matrix and can see through to a reality where women are the dominant force in the real world. They tend to be much younger than the general MRA crowd - but also much nastier. It is these little boys who organise with 4-Chan to spam, troll and dox women who have offended them, perhaps for terrible crimes like blogging about how women would rather not be trapped by unknown men in a lift in the small hours of the morning and him wanting to go back the woman's room for coffee.

It is unknown how many of these guys long for some large Laurence Fishburne or muscular Carrie-Anne Moss to come along and take them under the wings of a leather trench coat before whisking them away to a small dirty room where wonderful things can happen.

Incels - The most pitiful of the MRAs, Involuntary Celibates. They bewail the fact they lack the social skills to approach women, talk to them, share normal life and then, maybe, investigate the idea that the relationship might become sexual. In the mind of the incel they are the only guys in the world, over the age of 10, who have not had sex. As far as I can gather they seem to approach women and ask for a pity fuck straight out.

There is a (very) faint chance that these boys might grow to be emotionally mature before the age of 70, get a spine and become useful members of society.

PUAs - Pick-Up artists. If Incels are spineless worms PUAs are peleagic ooze - slime. They believe that date rape, coerced sex and intoxication rape are consensual acts which they are entitled to perform. The less said about these predators the better, they are not funny.
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A Glossary of MRAs feel free to add (Original Post) intaglio Apr 2014 OP
We need to raise consciousness of this CFLDem Apr 2014 #1
Are there two people using your username? redqueen Apr 2014 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Apr 2014 #5
Joker(s) that has already sat on Eight (8) Juries. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #10
absolutely. so that. it cannot be said any clearer. game? joke? two people? nt seabeyond Apr 2014 #6
Or none of the above. CFLDem Apr 2014 #35
you are too inconsistent. that is where the problem lies. people do not like being made a fool of. seabeyond Apr 2014 #37
Prove it. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #56
Sure thing Tuesday CFLDem Apr 2014 #61
Your ignorance is showing. I suggest you post less and read more. I say that in the kindest Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #63
respectfully to all of du, i would like to express my thoughts. but i am afraid even civilly i seabeyond Apr 2014 #8
if he really was sincere he would publicly apologize and Rec this thread. Also, now you know Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #14
it isnt done so well. pretty obvious. pretty clear. for most of us. just cause there is not a seabeyond Apr 2014 #16
" ... for most of us..." yes and still they sit on juries, in judgement of good and faithful DUers Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #19
"Community Standards" MadrasT Apr 2014 #20
i know.... a belly laugh, collectively. that ship long sailed. lasted all of a couple months seabeyond Apr 2014 #22
you must understand, Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #23
good to know. no one at our age, wants to be called naive. for sure. ahhhhh seabeyond Apr 2014 #26
well, weather has its own version of community standards, yanno Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #30
yes. that is why i have a couple "friends" on jury blacklist. that does about say it all, right? nt seabeyond Apr 2014 #24
Here's a few from manboobz ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #2
ah, the western woman one. i started seeing that all over the place, two years ago. saw someone seabeyond Apr 2014 #7
... harpies ... I know what they look like thanks to the very kind DUer that posted a picture. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #11
you know. it says something when an older woman posts a picture dissing older women. lol. get this seabeyond Apr 2014 #12
that is awesome. the difference between the motivation behind the action ... Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #15
"difference between the motivation behind the action ..." point. people are not as seabeyond Apr 2014 #17
Coy ... good word. Yes. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #21
you know. i taught both boys to not even bother. we were all too clever. just wasnt gonna work. seabeyond Apr 2014 #27
yes. it just doesn't fly. it is a game to play and it takes two to play games. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #33
oh oho oh. which takes us back to me talking to cfl.... and the whole game. seabeyond Apr 2014 #36
yeah, the Ye Ole Internet Game. Amazes me that it still holds fascination for some. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #64
Well I admit to liking this from "Bewitched" ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #18
again, the intent and motivation of that original picture is Art and Well Played. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #25
You mean given her character on the show? ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #28
feathers flying. ya. seabeyond Apr 2014 #31
see, I love it, too ... POWERFUL and IMAGINATIVE ... and posted with good intent. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #32
Someone actually used that word? ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #39
yes, Someone actually used both the harpie and the hag words and yes, Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #67
ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. i love. that is great. nt seabeyond Apr 2014 #29
NAWALT - same shit that's been used by people to deflect critical thought for decades. redqueen Apr 2014 #9
The most egregious of posters ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #13
very interesting. i did not realize that was what red pill was about. hey... seabeyond Apr 2014 #4
Minor defense of the "red pill" folks jeff47 Apr 2014 #34
isnt it amazing we are not spending so much time in life saying. what about the fat girls, geek girl seabeyond Apr 2014 #38
Well, for the girls they have the scene where jeff47 Apr 2014 #46
having raised two boys. having one at 19 and one at 16. one dork, one geek who totally embrace seabeyond Apr 2014 #49
I'm not saying it's boys being boys. jeff47 Apr 2014 #52
because they live in a society that maes them feel entitled. cause they watch that nerd series that seabeyond Apr 2014 #54
No, they live in a society that tells them they will never attract a woman. jeff47 Apr 2014 #58
i am going to think about this. thanks. what i had going against me, is i was never much a kid, seabeyond Apr 2014 #59
No, society tells them they will not "get" a HOT woman. redqueen Apr 2014 #65
society is actually telling/defining what is a HOT woman. HOT women have to look and act in a Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #71
"It is ALL such a HUGE LOAD of BULLSHIT" redqueen Apr 2014 #75
I like to get to the heart of the matter Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #77
Word. Sing it, Tuesday. n/t MadrasT Apr 2014 #79
Thanks, MadrasT Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #96
It really is any woman. jeff47 Apr 2014 #81
i am still on entitlement. i see it in the best of guys. they intellectually know better. seabeyond Apr 2014 #74
this is why the entitlement. even in the geek male movies, the women are treated like shit. even seabeyond Apr 2014 #76
it is also hand in hand with street harassment. those men are not geeks. and they do the same. why? seabeyond Apr 2014 #78
Entitlement usually refers to getting more than you diserve jeff47 Apr 2014 #84
a right to something. from the time these guys are babies.... thru out life seabeyond Apr 2014 #86
Except entitled to sex really isn't relevant to a child jeff47 Apr 2014 #88
sigh. it is not sex at the younger age, but it is entitled to the wife, the served, the taken care seabeyond Apr 2014 #90
And I'm saying they don't think they can have that. jeff47 Apr 2014 #92
BUT... they have already learned they are suppose to. hence entitlement. geeez seabeyond Apr 2014 #93
Heh... at age 4 MadrasT Apr 2014 #94
it is. and i have been thinking of you of late, with all the discussion happening. seabeyond Apr 2014 #95
On the other hand... MadrasT Apr 2014 #97
omg... lol. that is too fuggin cute. too. i grew up on a farm. lol. seabeyond Apr 2014 #98
If that is the case (that they are convinced geeks are unappealing) that's a shame. MadrasT Apr 2014 #40
Thank you for sharing CFLDem Apr 2014 #41
we are talking about young men, in the reddit, that actively try to ruin a girl or womans life. seabeyond Apr 2014 #44
I think you give them too much credit. CFLDem Apr 2014 #48
i do not give them much credit at all. i think the are cowards. weak. ugly inside. lacking character seabeyond Apr 2014 #53
They've been taught civility, kindness and respect. jeff47 Apr 2014 #50
they are doing it cause they are ENTITLED to fuck the hot girl, use the hot girl seabeyond Apr 2014 #55
No, they are doing it to hurt the unattainable girl. jeff47 Apr 2014 #60
still thinking. boys lash out. girls within. no it is not biological or innate. it is culturally seabeyond Apr 2014 #66
Taking off glasses = already "hot" girl learns to sexualize herself. redqueen Apr 2014 #70
At least there's a path. jeff47 Apr 2014 #80
no. there is not. girls know. they are not fooled. the path is no more than for a boy. seabeyond Apr 2014 #83
Where is the path for that geeky boy? jeff47 Apr 2014 #85
serious???? that geek boy is the success now he just has to BUY a woman to use as a tool, no seabeyond Apr 2014 #87
That would be if he's a highly-paid adult. jeff47 Apr 2014 #89
hey. you are talking were would be a path. not a reality of a path. just like seabeyond Apr 2014 #91
Exactly. And all of this leaves out the hate. The anger and resentment and hostility. redqueen Apr 2014 #99
Then why not date a not "hot" girl? ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #103
^this is society's double standard on expectations^ it is EXPECTED that our children act in such a Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #62
I watched that show with my grandson a while back ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #43
i have had that happen to me a handful of times, with movies back in my day. seabeyond Apr 2014 #100
Embarrassing isn't it? ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #105
And now you are making assumptions about other men.... bettyellen Apr 2014 #101
+1 MadrasT Apr 2014 #102
I understand the impulse to relate to "geeks" but they are NOT all alike bettyellen Apr 2014 #104
There's a bunch that are big on mail order brides JoeyT Apr 2014 #42
is this the mra older man, disillusioned? but you are right. i stated elsewhere today. but ya.... seabeyond Apr 2014 #45
I had no idea there was any real opposition to IMBRA. JoeyT Apr 2014 #47
hmmm. lol. fuck. all of this crap. and simple self loathing? fuck. i have not even heard of seabeyond Apr 2014 #57
this is great BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2014 #51
The thing that gets me MadrasT Apr 2014 #68
that these guys seem to think any woman can automatically have any man she chooses at the drop of a seabeyond Apr 2014 #69
Yeah, maybe if she lowers her standards it's possible. redqueen Apr 2014 #73
"Bad Boy," "Alpha," "Dominant" - The same insufferable loser chrisa Apr 2014 #72
This message was self-deleted by its author ismnotwasm Apr 2014 #82
 

CFLDem

(2,083 posts)
1. We need to raise consciousness of this
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:03 AM
Apr 2014

as much as we can so we can root out these misogynist parasites.

Thank you for this!

Response to redqueen (Reply #3)

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
10. Joker(s) that has already sat on Eight (8) Juries.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:53 AM
Apr 2014

does that make the jury system a joke, too .... go figure .... it only stands to reason, right ... ?

 

CFLDem

(2,083 posts)
35. Or none of the above.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:36 AM
Apr 2014

I'm dead set against the fedora adorned neckbeards and cocky frat preppies that make up these disgusting MRA hate groups.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
37. you are too inconsistent. that is where the problem lies. people do not like being made a fool of.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:38 AM
Apr 2014

and lots of puter in computer land like to make fools of others, for no other reason than personal entertainment.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
63. Your ignorance is showing. I suggest you post less and read more. I say that in the kindest
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:52 PM
Apr 2014

gentlest way possible and am giving you a HUGE benefit of doubt.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
8. respectfully to all of du, i would like to express my thoughts. but i am afraid even civilly i
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:35 AM
Apr 2014

might, the slightest of chances, get a hide. and it is not worth it.

so, i edited my thoughts out. silenced. but that is ok.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
14. if he really was sincere he would publicly apologize and Rec this thread. Also, now you know
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:02 AM
Apr 2014

I how feel when a certain female DUer comes in here and posts and actually does Rec stuff .... sly one, that one is. Plays both ends against the middle better than anyone I have seen in a long time of internet posting. Gotta give her credit for that.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
16. it isnt done so well. pretty obvious. pretty clear. for most of us. just cause there is not a
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:08 AM
Apr 2014

tiff, does not mean it is not recognized. merely, unimportant. i have a small handful where my name is used and all, consistent beating, in your face and gets a .... meh. liteally. really. a stupid ass meh... who the fuck cares.

people see.

the efforts do not matter

but ya. i hear ya.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
19. " ... for most of us..." yes and still they sit on juries, in judgement of good and faithful DUers
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:12 AM
Apr 2014

participating on this board with sincere intent ... this is my issue with all of this. It makes a mockery of Community Standards.

As for the Persons doing this, I could give a happy damn.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
22. i know.... a belly laugh, collectively. that ship long sailed. lasted all of a couple months
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:16 AM
Apr 2014

where i actually thought that was a goal

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
26. good to know. no one at our age, wants to be called naive. for sure. ahhhhh
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:19 AM
Apr 2014

i love you women. you always make me laugh, put a smile on my face, sling an arm around my shoulder. just good people.

thank you

hey.... snow today. windows all open thru out house yesterday. and snow today.

life is good

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
30. well, weather has its own version of community standards, yanno
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:21 AM
Apr 2014


beautiful here all weekend. rain this morning, nice and gentle spring rain. Life is so very good, indeed

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
2. Here's a few from manboobz
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:11 AM
Apr 2014

MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way MGHOW: Man Going His Own Way.

Mangina: Derogatory term used by MRAs, MGTOW, etc. to describe guys who disagree with them — e.g., me. You can figure out the various connotations of this term yourself.

NAWALT
Not all women Are Like That. Dudes in the manosphere make so many ridiculous and untrue generalizations about women that they’ve come up with their own little acronym to describe the most common reaction to their nonsense: “not all women are like that.” Remarkably, many seem to think that making a reference to NAWALT is actually some sort of clever rebuttal of their critics.

Western Women: Also known as WW. Evil harpies, at least according to many in the manosphere. Contrasted with “foreign women,” a term that (in the manosphere, at least) sometimes refers to all women outside the Anglosphere, but often refers to a subset of these women from poor and/or Eastern countries, mostly Asian, who are regarded as more pliable and thus more desirable to haters of “Ameriskanks” and other WW.


http://manboobz.com/wtf-is-a-mgtow-a-glossary/

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
7. ah, the western woman one. i started seeing that all over the place, two years ago. saw someone
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:18 AM
Apr 2014

with a duer name on a man board talking about u.s. "princesses" vs foreign women to have in slave like relations. i wonder... not like an easily, common, made up name.

but, i saw a lot of men going on about the princesses. and wanting foreign. that has got to be a certain kind of creep. but then, it is just the mentality of pay for a tool to use.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
11. ... harpies ... I know what they look like thanks to the very kind DUer that posted a picture.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:56 AM
Apr 2014

Would like to publicly thank that piece of work right now.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
12. you know. it says something when an older woman posts a picture dissing older women. lol. get this
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:59 AM
Apr 2014

i was given a gift walking into colorado springs. a picture. of.... harpies.

it is the best, the fuggin best. i love it. it is going up. my harpies do not look anything like the other harpie picture put up to insult. my harpies are embraced and empowered. it is not about being insulting. but, love.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
15. that is awesome. the difference between the motivation behind the action ...
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:05 AM
Apr 2014

one was thrown out in hatred and was palpable but, same thing, given in love and the feeling radiates outward. Love is Strong.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
17. "difference between the motivation behind the action ..." point. people are not as
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:10 AM
Apr 2014

invisible as they would like to think. that is why i am such a believer in just putting it out there. to much work, and doesnt work, not effective, trying to be coy.

not to mention dishonest

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
27. you know. i taught both boys to not even bother. we were all too clever. just wasnt gonna work.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:20 AM
Apr 2014

now when any of us do, it is jest, cause... we are all just too clever, respectfully we know it does not work

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
36. oh oho oh. which takes us back to me talking to cfl.... and the whole game.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:36 AM
Apr 2014

i had read cave long ago. and they would ru back gigglin that they had gotten a lie over on someone. it is like really?

they come in here and lie. people say ok. they run back and giggle. and think they "won"

fuck

wasnt playing. jerk. i gotta be playing for you to win.

too funny

too too funny

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
64. yeah, the Ye Ole Internet Game. Amazes me that it still holds fascination for some.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:55 PM
Apr 2014

Computers have been around long enough now that only the very secluded/naive can not see through that tired, old game.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
25. again, the intent and motivation of that original picture is Art and Well Played.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:18 AM
Apr 2014

The difference being who and why it is posted is paramount and germane to this discussion.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
32. see, I love it, too ... POWERFUL and IMAGINATIVE ... and posted with good intent.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:25 AM
Apr 2014

open and above board and presented freely for discussion. This is the difference. Also, disagreement with it, respected.

this is the difference.

It is not a sly(not so sly) call out being posted behind the back in another forum/group on DU.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
39. Someone actually used that word?
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:54 AM
Apr 2014

Dumbass. I know this is a discussion of MRA's, but that is truly stupid. I've seem worse around here, a lot worse, but "harpy" doesn't pack any punch really, and it can be easily countered-- or turned around.

All Greek and roman mythology has been subverted for one purpose or the other-- in kids shows, games, art. To cling to the original (or as close as they're gonna get) myth as an insult is asinine.

If coded, the person being discussed will recognize themselves only if they're trolling a group, (or if they have a little group of PMers.)-- and this one is so often trolled, I'm amazed, given how much shit talking about it there is. I've only seen TMG for instance if referenced elsewhere, or on a jury. I trashed it, and it stays trashed.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
9. NAWALT - same shit that's been used by people to deflect critical thought for decades.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:42 AM
Apr 2014

'But my wife says...' 'But no women I know think that...' or from the female side 'Well no men I know do x / are like that.'

Closely related to 'But my Latinx friend said...' and 'I have Black friends and they said that...'

Sheer idiocy.

It seems that no matter how many times people are reminded that their anecdotal experiences do not change jack shit in the wider world, this crap still gets thrown up on the regular.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
13. The most egregious of posters
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:01 AM
Apr 2014

Always have a "wife" or a "girlfriend" who is "strong" and "doesn't" take any shit " or some such wording. It never fails to amuse, these attacks on feminism while hiding behind their "strong woman meme.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
4. very interesting. i did not realize that was what red pill was about. hey...
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 10:13 AM
Apr 2014

you did an excellent job describing the difference. clear diffferences. i can see what you are saying. thanks.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
34. Minor defense of the "red pill" folks
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:27 AM
Apr 2014

They're just geeks. They've spent their lives in a society that labels them as useful for tech support, not useful for dating. Interpersonal skills in all situations are a little like asking your technophobe grandfather to build a computer from parts.

They still need to get over their shit and behave like adults, but they're coming more from ignorance than malice.

In my youth, I was such a geek. I was absolutely convinced that made me utterly unappealing. Everything our culture threw at me had the geek as the 'comic relief' while the women were only interested in the "real men". Even in the Revenge of the Nerds series of movies, a nerd only "got the girl" after squashing his geekiness.

I was wrong - looking back it's clear the problem was my assumption. But when wallowing in that situation it's all too easy to toss the blame at others, followed by lashing out.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
38. isnt it amazing we are not spending so much time in life saying. what about the fat girls, geek girl
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:44 AM
Apr 2014

socially inept girl, bookworm girl, that is not getting the boy.

so, she is ruining boys and mens lives, making hell for them, ect.... but

NEVER

never.

we never make these excuses for girls. our girls sexuality is totally invisible. her needs never matter.

all of our world, ever minute of our 24 hours, is focused on the boys or mans erection. it is all about that. all the fugin time. day after day week after week. the erection. one manner or another. either he does not get to use it enough. uses it too much (pat him on the back). uses it inappropriate (boys being boy)

enough

it is not ALL that. never has been. but... what we have been doing for the last couple years. and with that, we wonder why masculinity is so elusive today?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
46. Well, for the girls they have the scene where
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:12 PM
Apr 2014

she takes off her glasses, lets down her hair, and gently tosses it from side to side. Then the football player starts drooling, but she goes off with the "nice guy" instead.

Not exactly realistic, but the lesson we appear to be teaching the girls is they can still be "date-able" with some cosmetic changes. It's those darn glasses holding her back!!!!

The geek boy ends the movie either having utterly changed his personality or without a romantic interest. Though I have noticed that this is changing a bit - they're starting to give the geek boy a geek girl sometimes. "Getting the cheerleader" in such movies still requires a new personality.

Again, the "red pill" boys I'm talking about are still in the wrong, I'm just saying it's an error from ignorance. All they know is what TV, movies and books have told them about their romantic worth, and that is massively reinforced by high school life. As time moves on, most of them will grow up enough to figure out they were wrong.

As for geek boy time vs geek girl time, ATM focusing on geek boys since MRA-types are the subject at hand. However, I think more focus on geek girls is the way to fix the geek boy problem - more exposure to girls, especially in a comfortably "geeky" environment, would probably be the best way to fix the "geek boy" problem. Hard for a geek boy to argue he can't talk to girls when he just chatted for a couple hours about "The Elder Scrolls" video games.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
49. having raised two boys. having one at 19 and one at 16. one dork, one geek who totally embrace
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:20 PM
Apr 2014

their geek and dork. what these young men are doing on reddit is not simply boys being boys. it is ugly, nasty, mean, not warranting being socially embraced, but rejected. there is something in these boys that feel they have the right and are entertained in hurting other people.

and ya ya ya. i know. you are not condoning. so you do not need to say it again. but... listening to you, to a point i hear ya. then i think abotu my boys. i think about their friends. and i think about what these young men on reddit are doing to women and girls.

there is a difference in these young men that will get on a site, and do this to women and girls.

they are different than my sons. their friends. the men i have grown up with.

that is what i cannot reconcile with what you are telling me.

i know the 15, 16, 17 yr old that is competing with the jock and his angst.

these are not the same

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
52. I'm not saying it's boys being boys.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:24 PM
Apr 2014

I'm saying it's self-loathing boys lashing out against those they erroneously blame.

What they need is some psychological care. Either formally, or the kind they'll rapidly get in their 20s from society.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
54. because they live in a society that maes them feel entitled. cause they watch that nerd series that
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:28 PM
Apr 2014

tell them, it is theirs to treat women in horrible fashion. (i have always felt what ism said about the nerd movies and didnt let boys watch because of the specific reason how they treat the girls). they are living in a culture that tells them the are entitled. they do not get. waaaaa. those girls are going to play

it is a god damn temper tantrum at an adult age.

i just cannot muster the same sympathy. and i am trying. my mind is going a mile a minute.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
58. No, they live in a society that tells them they will never attract a woman.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:38 PM
Apr 2014

Again, they are coming from a place of self-loathing. That doesn't lead to entitlement, it leads to anger.

they watch that nerd series that tell them, it is theirs to treat women in horrible fashion.

Those movies also tell them that they are worthless to women unless they completely change their personality.

it is a god damn temper tantrum at an adult age.

They didn't get the chance to "grow up" socially in high school. That self-loathing and feelings of worthlessness meant they had limited, if any, social interactions. No way they went to parties, for example.

So while the calendar says they're adults, socially they are 13-year-olds. That is also why they typically "grow up" quickly in their 20s. And why the "red pill" people in the OP are so young. Older ones have figured out they were the problem.

i just cannot muster the same sympathy. and i am trying. my mind is going a mile a minute.

It's much easier when you lived it.
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
59. i am going to think about this. thanks. what i had going against me, is i was never much a kid,
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:41 PM
Apr 2014

even as a kid. lack of maturity, understanding that, always left me with my nose curled.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
65. No, society tells them they will not "get" a HOT woman.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:55 PM
Apr 2014

During all the raging that geeky nerdy techie men were venting when geeky nerdy techie women said "enough with the sexism/objectification in geek culture pls thx", MANY geeky nerdy techie women vented about how insulting it was to grow up around these men, and listen to these men moaning and whining about the cheerleaders who rejected them, while the geeky nerdy techie girls just sat there thinking, 'Um, hello?'

So yeah... No.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
71. society is actually telling/defining what is a HOT woman. HOT women have to look and act in a
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:19 PM
Apr 2014

certain way and these supposedly intelligent, geeky, nerdy boys can not THINK for themselves to define HOTNESS in their own terms.

at the same time society is telling our intelligent, geeky, nerdy girls that they must look and act a certain way in order to attain another stereotyped male.

We have put each other in boxes and lo, beware those of us who feel constrained by the box and BREAK OUT from those confining restraints.

It is ALL such a HUGE LOAD of BULLSHIT to those of us who have broken out of our boxes that we are fast becoming frustrated (and then) bored with those who choose (for whatever myriad of rationalization) to remain BOXED IN.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
81. It really is any woman.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:56 PM
Apr 2014

At least, that was the lesson decades ago. The dot-com millionaires have had an effect on the cultural desirability of geeky males.

But the guys I'm talking about really believe that no woman can find them attractive. Eventually, most of them grow up. But first, they can do some damage.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
74. i am still on entitlement. i see it in the best of guys. they intellectually know better.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:31 PM
Apr 2014

from their heart, they know better. and still, it is conditioned from the day they are born.

self loathing does not lead to entitlement, self loathing occurs because of their PERCEIVED entitlement that is "not happening" and then they get angry and take it out on the girls. male entitlement is man made. patriarchy in other words.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
76. this is why the entitlement. even in the geek male movies, the women are treated like shit. even
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:37 PM
Apr 2014

the geek male gets to be a sexist ass, and the girl take it.

male trumps. every time.

it does not matter if it is geekdom, race, even sex. it all bottoms that hierarchy, male trumps. even the geek. and the movies made sure of it. he may have had to conform to get. but.... thru out the movie it was full of sexism for the male, geek, entertainment.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
78. it is also hand in hand with street harassment. those men are not geeks. and they do the same. why?
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:42 PM
Apr 2014

it is ALL about puttin' those *****'s in their place. dont they know. the man. here is the man. who are they to say no. they need to know their place.

that is what so much of it is. the constant shoving us in our place.

and men know what i am talking about cause you get the same, in different situations. BUT... with gender. male is superior. in all facets of life it tells you such. every nook in cranny in life tell you, men, even geek men, still men, are superior to women.

in your brain, in your heart you may know better.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
84. Entitlement usually refers to getting more than you diserve
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:59 PM
Apr 2014

And really it's a belief that absolutely no women will ever have romantic interest. Is it "entitlement" when it's about any women at all? Not just the "hot" or otherwise desirable. Any.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
86. a right to something. from the time these guys are babies.... thru out life
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:04 PM
Apr 2014
en·ti·tle·ment
enˈtītlmənt/Submit
noun
1.
the fact of having a right to something.



before they even got to the point of deciding they are geeks, they have been taught by society they are entitled to sex. it is their right. their masculinity.

then they grow up into geeks, but, they have already learned from society. entitlement. superior. came first. why would that anger not be, ... being denied what he is entitled to.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
88. Except entitled to sex really isn't relevant to a child
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:09 PM
Apr 2014

The geek boys I'm talking about learn to be outcasts before puberty. As a result, they wouldn't learn they are entitled to sex until after they've learned they can't attract women.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
90. sigh. it is not sex at the younger age, but it is entitled to the wife, the served, the taken care
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:13 PM
Apr 2014

of, the role of a woman thru out her life. the presenting herself to. all of it.

i boiled it down. the commercials they see. the cartoons. popeye with olive oil. mickie with minnie. it is everywhere in our lives.

and jeff. if nothing else. was a fun chat that made me think think think

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
92. And I'm saying they don't think they can have that.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:15 PM
Apr 2014

almost an inverse entitlement.

and jeff. if nothing else. was a fun chat that made me think think think

Likewise
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
93. BUT... they have already learned they are suppose to. hence entitlement. geeez
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:18 PM
Apr 2014

i can remember at four thinking about being married and my role in that.

and you know what? once i grew up, i was not thrilled with that role that i thought was all heavenly at four.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
94. Heh... at age 4
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:30 PM
Apr 2014

When playing "house" with my friends, I always insisted on being the husband/dad. No way did I want any part of that "wife/mother" stuff.

It is really interesting to me that at age 4, I was already rejecting the sterotype of "female".

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
95. it is. and i have been thinking of you of late, with all the discussion happening.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:39 PM
Apr 2014

four seems to be the age, of the first sexual journey. i can remember about 11 rejecting it. the second stage of our sexual journey

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
97. On the other hand...
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:59 PM
Apr 2014

...I also wore glasses, and back then little tiny glasses came in 2 styles, plain tortoiseshell or fancy pink cateye glasses.

I wanted the pink ones soooo bad, and my mom would never let me have them.

My mom was pregnant when I was 4 and that seemed pretty horrifying to me. I was like "Wait WUT??? I am a girl and when I grow up.... oh hell no!" I was a pain in the ass about wanting to know about what made a baby happen and that is when she explained things to me. I was like, "OK, so basically make sure to never get in bed with a man naked and I am safe."

That seemed easy, just wear pajamas after you get married to keep your ladyparts covered so no accidents happened. (I truly thought it was an acccident, not fathoming at age 4 how ladyparts and manparts would meet each other on purpose.)



OK that is way off topic but my memory of my 4 year old brain amused me enough to want to share.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
98. omg... lol. that is too fuggin cute. too. i grew up on a farm. lol.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 03:03 PM
Apr 2014

bah ha.

i remember the glasses.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
40. If that is the case (that they are convinced geeks are unappealing) that's a shame.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:55 AM
Apr 2014

Geeks can be very appealing. I'd rather hang out with a geek than a so-called "real man" any day.

It does seem like a lot of these guys are pretty young.

 

CFLDem

(2,083 posts)
41. Thank you for sharing
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:55 AM
Apr 2014

That's exactly spot on. And we are the ones who need to give them the true red pill to heal them of their frustration and turn them into productive citizens.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
44. we are talking about young men, in the reddit, that actively try to ruin a girl or womans life.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:08 PM
Apr 2014

there is more wrong with these men than simply "healing their frustrations" that they have not been taught civility, kindness, respect for their fellow humans. even in woman form.

it says something about the man that has made it to adulthood and has not learned he does not have the right to hurt others and actively try to destroy others.

 

CFLDem

(2,083 posts)
48. I think you give them too much credit.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:16 PM
Apr 2014

IRL, I think we'll find most of them are inept wallflowers.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
53. i do not give them much credit at all. i think the are cowards. weak. ugly inside. lacking character
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:25 PM
Apr 2014

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
50. They've been taught civility, kindness and respect.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:21 PM
Apr 2014

They're ignoring those teachings due to self-loathing. They are getting back at those they erroneously blame by violating cultural norms.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
55. they are doing it cause they are ENTITLED to fuck the hot girl, use the hot girl
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:34 PM
Apr 2014

cause they are men, and this is what men are suppose to get. society has told them all their lives they are suppose to. there teen age pimply faced guy movies tell them they are suppose to.

i want wnat want my hot girl. i am suppose to have a hot girl. mine mine mine

the DIFFERENCE and my initial point. you do not see the 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, girls throwing little fits that they are entitled to the football jock, TEN.

that is where the problem is.

these girls not getting sex. not getting the hot guy. that are self loathing. are not doing the same thing. why?????

cause they know damn well they are not entitled to the football player. do not even consider, bother. get someone on your level.

you might want to look at how our society conditions our boys. and how porn and shit effect our boys and maybe get closer to the answer.

what about them being raised on the humiliation, degrading, shaming girls in porn? that does not effect them?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
60. No, they are doing it to hurt the unattainable girl.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:49 PM
Apr 2014

as they lash out from their self-loathing.

These are geeks. They never feel entitled. You can't feel entitled within a society when you feel you are a social outcast.

cause they are men, and this is what men are suppose to get.

No, they are geeks and this is what they can never, ever, ever have. A girl at all, regardless of her "hotness".

"Hot" girls are targeted for the same reason terrorists target the famous. To get more attention.

these girls not getting sex. not getting the hot guy. that are self loathing. are not doing the same thing. why?????

Well, I don't have personal experience on that side, but I'd guess it is because we don't tell them they will never get sex. That they will never get any guy. To go back to the stupid stereotypical scene, she gets the guy by taking off her glasses.

you might want to look at how our society conditions our boys. and how porn and shit effect our boys and maybe get closer to the answer.

Yes, having grown up in the life I am describing, clearly I'm unable to understand what it's really like.

The hole in your theory is the entitlement angle. These boys think they are the ultimate losers. You can't feel entitled when you feel utterly worthless.
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
66. still thinking. boys lash out. girls within. no it is not biological or innate. it is culturally
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:56 PM
Apr 2014

learned. only emotion for boys is anger. and girls must be nice at all cost.

personally i think that is changing and our girls will more and more choose to lash out.

but... we can comfortably say, our culture teaches the boys to lash out with their internal pain.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
70. Taking off glasses = already "hot" girl learns to sexualize herself.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:09 PM
Apr 2014

These actresses start off hot. They just sexualize themselves.

That's the message girls get. If you're already hot, you have a chance, but first you have to sexualize yourself.

The girls who aren't hot are not fooled into thinking they can magically become hot by taking off glasses.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
80. At least there's a path.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:52 PM
Apr 2014

Yes, it's an utterly stupid path that is not at all realistic, but there's a path.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
83. no. there is not. girls know. they are not fooled. the path is no more than for a boy.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:58 PM
Apr 2014

this is what madrast is talking. you are holding onto the myth, like i hear so many du men say. that girls/women can get sex whenever they want. it does not matter how stupidly unrealistic that is. or how untrue it is. factually. you men will not step away from that little nugget for anything.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
85. Where is the path for that geeky boy?
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:03 PM
Apr 2014

Assume you know nothing but what our culture hurls at kids. Yes, the geeky girl knows that culture's path for her is utterly unrealistic.

But what's the path for the geeky boy? He's always the sidekick. There is no path.

Though it is quite possible that things are significantly different today - the dotcom millionaires got the attention of our culture, so geek boys may not feel like such outcasts.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
87. serious???? that geek boy is the success now he just has to BUY a woman to use as a tool, no
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:06 PM
Apr 2014

different from the car, boat house.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
89. That would be if he's a highly-paid adult.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:13 PM
Apr 2014

But we're talking about the late-kid to 20-something if we're talking about "red pill" types. They're paid well compared to their peers, but nowhere near "buy a woman".

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
91. hey. you are talking were would be a path. not a reality of a path. just like
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 02:14 PM
Apr 2014

whippin' off glasses is not a reality of a path. but as you say, a path.....

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
99. Exactly. And all of this leaves out the hate. The anger and resentment and hostility.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 03:18 PM
Apr 2014

We see copious amounts from these types of men, whom I refuse to pity or sympathize with, and IMO it is the lack of entitlement which explains why we don't see that from women.

Pornographers know, and they exploit it. Once again I can't find the list of quotes from pornographers explaining that their audience wants to see women treated badly because they want revenge on the girls they couldn't get in high school, the ones who rejected them.

Sick stuff, but at least they're honest, I guess.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
103. Then why not date a not "hot" girl?
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:07 PM
Apr 2014

Instead of basing self worth on what kind of women is to be had to bolster self esteem, Find someone loving and kind-- this I've seen. An overweight women, or one who is not conventionally attractive?

I've seen many couples-- happy couples like this and they tend to be the rule not the exception. We are not a nation of perfect beauty. That's a myth, no matter what is shown on TV.

Or is what you're saying the damage has been done, the inward hate of self has turned out word to women?

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
62. ^this is society's double standard on expectations^ it is EXPECTED that our children act in such a
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:51 PM
Apr 2014

way and feel in such a way that the boy is ENTITLED to any girl of his choosing and society EXPECTS (demands) that our girls act in such a way that is pleasing and catering to ALL the boys, regardless.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
43. I watched that show with my grandson a while back
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:06 PM
Apr 2014

I was cringing. I didn't realize how casual sexism was in those shows-- I had a vague recall of it being the nerds beat the asshole jock types-- but there was Rapey illegal stuff like major Voyeurism
in that movie-- I had to explain a whole lot of things to Nate. That whole series is disgusting. I don't mind sex or potty humor but I had forgotten it what was taken as a norm at the time.

(Personally I was a chameleon-I fit in whatever group I found myself in without engagement. Then left. Not a great way to live)

I'll tell you one thing-- I'm very happy to see a rise in Geek culture for young women and men--they found a place to belong without having to change who they are. Too bad you missed out one that. I think a lot of people were hurt like you were.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
100. i have had that happen to me a handful of times, with movies back in my day.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 07:21 PM
Apr 2014

my boys calll me on it.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
105. Embarrassing isn't it?
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:44 PM
Apr 2014

I'm far more careful. When Nate was younger I had he watch PART of "Carrie" because it had a character who was a "jock" type a school who was NOT an asshole stereotype. Didn't let him watch the whole movie-- he was worried about middle school bullies at the time. Of course now he's just 15 and Mr. Cool. But also not a bully, and quite good looking. His mom keeps him on a tight lease-- or I just might add young great grandma to my resume of young mother and young grandmother.

He's got more sense than I Or his mother did in that matter thank goodness.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
101. And now you are making assumptions about other men....
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:54 PM
Apr 2014

And teens saying they could not *possibly* feel entitled. Oh, you have no idea. It's not just alpha dudes who feel like they "deserve" as much as their more socially adept peers. Fools who act like these girls and women are "things" society promises them for doing x y or z. The net reeks with bitter screeds about horrible women who are "superficial" and choose popular guys instead of them and how it's "not fair" because they are nicer. First off, they are largely chasing after girls they don't even know or like beyond a superficial way. Second of all, they are deluded on two counts- that a great woman will fall in your lap if only you do X Y or Z, and that they are actually nice guys, interested in getting to know any gal except those their lemming friends approve of. They are angry that their efforts don't produce the quality of woman they'd like to obtain. So angry we often get scolded and called the worst names for declining their advances. It absolutely is an outsized sense if entitlement on display. And it's much rarer in women. I guess you'd have to be on the receiving end of their bullshit for it to register. But it's much more common among regular guys than you could imagine.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
104. I understand the impulse to relate to "geeks" but they are NOT all alike
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:18 PM
Apr 2014

Just as the jocks, arty folks and hall monitors aren't. Some are wonderful, and some are hostile and deluded little fuck heads.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
42. There's a bunch that are big on mail order brides
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:02 PM
Apr 2014

because American women aren't submissive enough. I can't remember the acronym they use for it, and my google searching to try to find it led me to pages of people raging about how awful feminists and other assorted liberals are for supporting IMBRA, so I've given up on finding it before my blood pressure gets too high. Hopefully someone else here will know it.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
45. is this the mra older man, disillusioned? but you are right. i stated elsewhere today. but ya....
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:12 PM
Apr 2014

off du and i started making comments on like cnn.... the number of these men and the huge ass chip on the shoulder loser that they were.

that was a huge eye opener for me. i did not know about this group. but ya.... pretty big.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
47. I had no idea there was any real opposition to IMBRA.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:15 PM
Apr 2014

The law really only does two things: Makes a potential bride aware if her husband to be is a sex offender or abuser, and makes it so mail order bride companies can't hook people up with kids.

Anyone that objects to either of those things is such an awful person they really deserve nothing but contempt.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
57. hmmm. lol. fuck. all of this crap. and simple self loathing? fuck. i have not even heard of
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:37 PM
Apr 2014

this.

i can just see those very mens head exploding because now they cant abuse these women quite as easily.

wtf?

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
68. The thing that gets me
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:58 PM
Apr 2014

is that these guys seem to think any woman can automatically have any man she chooses at the drop of a hat.

(What with their talk about women being the "gatekeepers" of sex and so forth.)

It doesn't work that way.

Or I should say "one of the things that gets me".

They are living in a dreamland if they think that's how it works if you're a woman... that you just set your sights on some guy and BOOM he is automatically available, ready, willing, and able to hook up with you.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
69. that these guys seem to think any woman can automatically have any man she chooses at the drop of a
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:08 PM
Apr 2014

i think you are right. i am trying to get the point in posts above. but i do not think men get, that SOME women do not get sex either, regardless.

i think that is a myth that they live their lives by, that partially, and i mean just paritially, allow sucha huge chip. everyone is getting it but them, lol

chrisa

(4,524 posts)
72. "Bad Boy," "Alpha," "Dominant" - The same insufferable loser
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 01:26 PM
Apr 2014

Naturally MRA tools would want to be like that.

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