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Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 11:10 PM Dec 2014

As a gamer I need to speak out against the hate group known as Gamergate

As a gamer that supports equal rights for women I did not know quite how to react when I first heard of the misogynistic hate group Gamergate. My first reaction was to defend gamers, I viewed Gamergate as a tiny fringe group that did not represent the majority of gamers and I wanted to speak as one of the many gamers who rejects misogyny and likes to see realistic portrayals of women in our games.

When the Gamergate story broke I focused my energies on defending the gamers who were willing to listen to feminist critiques such as those from Anita Sarkeesian and work on moving to make gaming a more inclusive medium. While I recognize that sexist portrayals of women have long been a problem in the industry, I also think there are a number of game developers who are responsible and don't put sexism into their games. There are a lot of us gamers who despise everything that Gamergate stands for and we want women and minorities to be able to enjoy our hobby without being made to feel uncomfortable.

That is why I largely ignored Gamergate early on, I wanted the gamers who wanted to do good to be the focus rather than allow the group I viewed as the fringe to control the dialogue. I had hoped that if people would look away from Gamergate they would disappear, but unfortunately that has not happened. While I do still think that Gamergate is a fringe group that does not represent the majority of gamers, they are a very loud fringe group and it has become very clear that they are not going to allow people to ignore them. If they are not going to go away on their own I can no longer be silent as a gamer, I need to say what I really feel about these hateful assholes.

Gamergate is the KKK of the gaming community and they need to be treated as such. They are a violent hate group which threatens women's lives, and they need to be treated like any other violent hate group. Some of the things they have done are criminal, they are a terrorist organization that uses fear and intimidation to attack women and gays. This is no exaggeration either, at least one women has actually had to flee her own home because of terroristic threats made against her, another had to cancel a major speech after a mass shooting was threatened if it were to take place, others have been threatened with rape.

Most of the major gaming news sites have been largely silent on Gamergate so far, they are clearly scared to say anything about it. The problem is however that the Gamergate assholes have been posting increasingly bigoted comments on their pages and while they may delete the worst of these comments they have not been willing to speak out and say Gamergaters are not welcome in their community and I think that is what needs to be done. I think the gaming websites need to revoke the posting priviliges of those who promote Gamergate, and the game developers need to ban any Gamergate bigots from playing their games online. I know many gamers hate playing online with bigots, it is those gamers that reject bigotry who are too often the ones forced to leave however because the hateful people are usually allowed to get by with the most vile racist and misogynistic crap. If people can not enjoy their hobby without pushing hate then they need to have their hobby taken away from them, people need to push companies like Microsoft and Sony to ban racists and misogynists from their online gaming networks.

While I at first hoped that Gamergate would be one of those stories that would be in the news for a couple of weeks and then go away, it is clear that is not the case. Gamergate has clearly established itself as a hate group which has the potential to be around a long time if it is not made clear that the gaming community wants nothing to do with them. That is why gamers can no longer be silent about this, nor can the games industry. We don't want to see these hateful people when we log on to play our games, we don't want to see their hate speech posted on gaming web sites, it is time we stop allowing them to make the gaming world a hostile environment for others and instead we need to make it a hostile environment for bigots.

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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As a gamer I need to speak out against the hate group known as Gamergate (Original Post) Bjorn Against Dec 2014 OP
Wow excellent OP ismnotwasm Dec 2014 #1
I also want to say something about all the people who claim to be "moderate gamergate supporters" Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #2
+1 Veilex Dec 2014 #23
My son doesn't seem that worried about it starroute Dec 2014 #3
Heh bekkilyn Dec 2014 #4
Thanks for posting about Gamergate!..n/t whathehell Dec 2014 #5
Bravo mercuryblues Dec 2014 #6
i have watched the gaming industry for over a decade with two sons participating in gaming. seabeyond Dec 2014 #7
To. be clear, I have not been silent about sexism in games Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #9
i do believe it is in our culture as a whole. why wouldnt it equally be in the gaming community, seabeyond Dec 2014 #10
I don't disagree with that at all Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #12
probably there has not been that organized attack. but then, this is just what i am talking about seabeyond Dec 2014 #14
I agree with that Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #16
yes. you, the men in my life, many that speak up on du. seabeyond Dec 2014 #17
The catcalling video bekkilyn Dec 2014 #22
GGers give the rest of us gamers a bad name. NuclearDem Dec 2014 #8
Which site is that? Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #11
Sure, it's called Hard Light Productions. NuclearDem Dec 2014 #13
Thanks, I have not heard of that one before Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #15
Another good community bekkilyn Dec 2014 #20
Yes, I am a proud social justice warrior Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #21
To add to your comment that the tide is turning... Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #18
Women gamers everywhere bekkilyn Dec 2014 #19
Good post - It's important to review the history of this organization. el_bryanto Dec 2014 #24
The journalistic ethics claim is just laughable Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #25
Nods - i hadn't heard that story but have no trouble believing it el_bryanto Dec 2014 #26
That is what many of them attempt to claim Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #27

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
2. I also want to say something about all the people who claim to be "moderate gamergate supporters"
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 12:43 AM
Dec 2014

I I have noticed that several Gamergate supporters have been responding to critiques of Gamergate by claiming that they are moderate Gamergate supporters and they claim to want equal rights for women.

Let's be clear about this, being a moderate Gamergate supporter would be like being a moderate member of the KKK, in other words there is no such thing. I don't care how much you claim to support equality, if you associate yourself with a hate group I am not going to think of you as a moderate I am going to think of you as a misogynistic pig. Nobody who supports equality would join the KKK just as no one who supports equality would join Gamergate.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
3. My son doesn't seem that worried about it
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 01:51 AM
Dec 2014

I just asked him about this OP and he replied, "It's an internet mob, so it's kind of a hydra. But the GGers seem to have very little in the way of momentum. They're just making enemies everywhere."

So let's hope.

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
4. Heh
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 02:11 AM
Dec 2014

I find it somewhat amusing that these GG idiots are supporting people like Jack Thompson, who actually want to take their games away entirely rather than simply making them more inclusive. The level of cognitive dissonance within this group is insane when it comes to all the criminal activity, harassment, and threats that have been going on over the past few weeks. What "moderate" person would even go near them? I'm surprised this group hasn't yet imploded out of utter stupidity.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
7. i have watched the gaming industry for over a decade with two sons participating in gaming.
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 10:18 AM
Dec 2014

i cannot tell you how much my husband would like to not have the shit in his games, and the same with the guys he plays with. all they want, is a game to mellow out to at the end of the day, and simply play. without the controversy. there are also many games that actively have worked to become more gender neutral. i can appreciate the efforts, and those are the games mine tend to go to. they are also top selling games, and do not need the trash and garbage to attract a sale.

but, a step further for those that have games being a big part in their life. staying silent has only allowed an acceptance. i have heard many good men speak out, and i value their voice. accepting silently only feeds it.

thanks for your post.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
9. To. be clear, I have not been silent about sexism in games
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 10:40 AM
Dec 2014

What I had been mostly silent about was Gamergate specifically, I did not want them to get attention as I knew attention could only cause their numbers to grow. There comes a point however when it becomes clear that the group is creating a truly toxic environment and that toxic environment is not going to go away if we ignore it.

As far as sexism in games goes, that has bothered me for a long time. Going all the way back to the games that came out in the 80's and 90's when if the game did contain female characters those characters were very weak and basically useless. I do think developers have been getting better about that in recent years and we do see better female characters now than we ever have in the past, but the industry still does have a long ways to go.

This Gamergate thing is unlike anything I have seen in gaming before however, while there has always been sexism in games it never rose to the level that you could label any developers as hate groups. Gamergate is the first actual hate group that I have ever been aware of within the gaming community, and I think much of the gaming community is having a difficult time knowing how to respond to it.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
10. i do believe it is in our culture as a whole. why wouldnt it equally be in the gaming community,
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 10:48 AM
Dec 2014

where men gather.

misogyny has reared its ugly head with the needs to feed and grow. and other reasons i am not going ot get into now. it is everywhere, working hard ot become acceptable as a norm, in every day life.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
12. I don't disagree with that at all
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 10:55 AM
Dec 2014

I was certainly well aware that there was misogyny in the gaming community just as there is misogyny throughout society. The difference with Gamergate however is that we are not just talking about individual misogynists, we are talking about an organized hate group which is working collectively to attack women. As far as I know there has never been an organized hate group of gamers such as this in the past, there were certainly bigots but they did not organize gamers to harrass and threaten women as Gamergate is doing.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
14. probably there has not been that organized attack. but then, this is just what i am talking about
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 11:02 AM
Dec 2014

through out our society today, that makes it so different than just the cultural misogyny we have in our society. you can see it on du. it is really prevalent on di. men have organized to go after women with hate. you see it with the attempt of any woman that speaks out in any manner. you see it with the acceptance and cheering of going after celebs nudes. this is what the net has given us. the ability for men to get with like minded and gather supporters. men, that want a time with having a superiority with women. the only area they have now, is this hate since women have gained the freedom and independence to live their lives without control of man.

men cannot control women any other way and they feel they have the innate, biological right.

this whole thread using the p word and reducing women to harpies if they dare to speak out against it as sexist. the ability to shame, humiliate, degrade, threaten to get their way like little two year olds.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
16. I agree with that
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 11:12 AM
Dec 2014

I think Gamergate is a symptom of a much larger problem throughout society, you certainly do see lots of bigotry throughout the internet and it is certainly not limited to gaming sites. I think Gamergate is one of the more dangerous groups of bigots on the net, but the rest of the internet does have a toxic environment that I worry will result in other groups similar to Gamergate popping up elsewhere. With the bigotry I have seen posted on DU I could even see a hate group forming here, and sadly I think juries would often allow their posts to stand as a "difference of opinion" while hiding those who speak out against bigotry.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
17. yes. you, the men in my life, many that speak up on du.
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 11:28 AM
Dec 2014

what i see, from my perspective only, having raised two boy with a very strong and participating mom, yet totally outside the box thinking, .....

you are good men. you stand with us. you support and even speak up also. but, not being a woman, you do not see a lot of what we have been watching the last handful of years.

bj, (and many will giggle, cause i keep callin some kid with initials for a name, bj, .... giggle giggle), (this, everything about the damn penis), .... lol, ...

academically, intellectually you know. but clueless on the amount that is thrown at women daily. totally exhausting for us. as the men say, i am tired. i hear ya. me too.

but, these groups org. we saw this much sooner than a lot of these men. now they say, ... fug... what happened? and we say, this is what we have been talking about the last 5 yrs.

for over a decade, show after show insulting women. denigrating them buying, renting, beating, raping, ....

any given show. i am so exhausted. i do not want to be sitting in my home, continually seeing this shit. and it is everywhere, all the time. i turned off the tv. but, there are others in my family that like tv. i do not play the games. but my guys love them. part of living as a unit is respecting each other. and their right to turn on a tv. a good show. i walk in the room and a rape, or normalizing porn use, or strippers to entertain the guys, buying and renting women. beating women.

i like the tv show psych. one man asks. how did you know she was lying. and three men laugh and yell out, .... she was a woman.

i am minding my own business, enjoying a show, and i have three men tell me, .... women always lie. fug him.

it is ... everywhere. all the time.

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
22. The catcalling video
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 12:32 PM
Dec 2014

This NYC catcalling video demonstrates a lot of the problem: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/28/walking-in-nyc-as-a-woman_n_6063054.html

I am grateful though that nowadays there are many men who are outspoken about the misogyny problem and have decided that they do not want it to be one of our societal norms. A few years ago, it seemed that it was only some women complaining about the issue and no one else seemed to care or take it seriously.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
8. GGers give the rest of us gamers a bad name.
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 10:23 AM
Dec 2014

As much as it isn't publicized, a fair amount of the community is pushing back and expressing disgust over it. I remember how Angry Joe, one of my favorite reviewers, went on a tirade almost a year ago during the original Anita Sarkeesian outrage, shaming and deriding the misogynistic parts of the gaming community.

On top of that, a gaming forum I've been a member of since my middle school days has been admirably unified in disgust over the issue. It's not even some backwater website, but a major, well-respected pillar of the sci-fi gaming community.

The tide is turning.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
11. Which site is that?
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 10:49 AM
Dec 2014

I would like to find a gaming site that is unified against the Gamergate bigots so if you could share the name of that site it would be much appreciated.

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
20. Another good community
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 12:25 PM
Dec 2014

Another good community is gamerswithjobs. I recall some discussion there about it being labelled something like "a hugbox of SJW's" by the GG mob, so that right there may tell you it's a good one.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
21. Yes, I am a proud social justice warrior
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 12:28 PM
Dec 2014

A hugbox of Social Justice Warrior's sounds right up my alley.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
18. To add to your comment that the tide is turning...
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 02:13 PM
Dec 2014

I certainly think the tide is turning as well and I think that is why the neandrathals in Gamergate are lashing out. They know the industry is changing and the white male gamer is no longer going to dominate.

Gaming used to be dominated by men but the Wii as well as mobile phones brought a lot of women into gaming. While these women started out with casual games they are now looking more and more towards the big AAA titles and game developers will be considering how they market their games to women more and more as this demographic shift takes place.

For mature gamers like you and I this is a good development, our hobby is being opened up to a lot more people and we are going to get a lot more variety in our games as a result. For the elitist moron gamers who think they represent what a gamer is supposed to be and believe anyone who has different taste in games than they do is not a real gamer, this is very threatening to them.

Ultimately however women and their allies will win this battle. Game developers are going to pay more attention to the growing demographic of women gamers and they are not going to give the tiny Gamergate fringe priority over 50% of the population. I have no doubt that Gamergate will die eventually, I just hope they die before anyone else does.

bekkilyn

(454 posts)
19. Women gamers everywhere
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 12:19 PM
Dec 2014

There are also a number of women who have been dedicated gamers for twice as long as many GGers have been in diapers.

There have also been many women who have hidden behind male-sounding usernames so that everyone would just assume they were male and are only recently "coming out" as females.

This article in PC Gamer about women outnumbering male gamers on the PC has been making its rounds lately as well:

http://www.pcgamer.com/researchers-find-that-female-pc-gamers-outnumber-males/

Personally, I think more variety is fantastic. My primary love is RPGs like Elder Scrolls series, Fallout, PS:T, and Baldur's Gate, but I'm often in the mood for a lot of different types of games like simulation, fps (particularly if a good story like Bioshock), MMOs like Everquest 2, adventure, and yes, even a few rounds of casual like Bejeweled.

Social media sites and phone apps have simply opened up even more ways for people to play games and it's great! (I just wish they would watch where they were going when crossing the street and turn off their phones entirely when driving, but that's a whole different issue.)

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
24. Good post - It's important to review the history of this organization.
Wed Dec 17, 2014, 05:18 PM
Dec 2014

There are some even at DU who refuse to grapple with the reality that this organization was created to complain about women intruding into what they see as their space. They want to pretend that it is about journalistic ethics.

Now let's be clear - gaming journalism actually is pretty terrible; it's largely made up of shills and hacks who know that if they bite the hand that gives them access to new games that that access will be taken away. But when you look at the incidents that Gamergate is interested in exploring they all involve women they don't like, commenting on sexism and horrible treatment they receive.

Bryant

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
25. The journalistic ethics claim is just laughable
Wed Dec 17, 2014, 08:33 PM
Dec 2014

While there are cerainly problems with gaming journalism and I have seen some pretty stupid crap written on the gaming news sites, in comparison to the crap Gamergate promotes the gaming websites look like they are worthy of a Pulitzer.

Gamergate's favorite source is Breitbart, you see them link to it all the time because it is one of the only "news" outlets that will give them positive coverage. Anyone who complains about journalism and then associates with a group that considers Breitbart the proper journalistic standard is a major hypocrite.

In addition 50,000 Gamergate supporters just signed a petition to get Anita Sarkeesian fired from the development team for the upcoming Mirror's Edge 2 project. The problem? Sarkeesian is not and never has been on the Mirror's Edge 2 project. So what was it that got all of them to sign the petition? A two and a half year old user blog that claimed Sarkeesian was working on Mirror's Edge 2 based on unfounded rumors.

Yes, the group that claims to be fighting for better ethics in gaming journalism launched an angry petition because they believed a two and a half year old blog post with false information. If you think the major gaming sites have bad journalism just look at what Gamergate thinks gaming journalism should look like.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
26. Nods - i hadn't heard that story but have no trouble believing it
Wed Dec 17, 2014, 11:55 PM
Dec 2014

I'm just saying I had a long discussion with someone on this board who claimed over and over again that Gamergate had nothing to do with misogyny and everything to do with journalistic ethics.

Bryant

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
27. That is what many of them attempt to claim
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:03 AM
Dec 2014

When you look at their actions however it is clear it has nothing to do with journalistic integrity and everything to do with promoting misogyny.

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