Baiting, from one of them "real feminists"

[boston bean]

I am a Democratic committeeman, I've run for office as a Democrat and I've fought for gender justice for years in public and private venues and to be accused of sexism by anonymous harpies is not only unfair to me (and to the others it's happened to) but destructive to the "democratic ideals" I keep hearing about here.

This site has about zero credibility in the real world, and nonsense like this "word misogyny" will keep it that way.

Maybe that's what some of you have in mind.

You're not fighting for a damn thing.

You're just complaining about things you don't like.

Save your lectures for some place that counts.

Nobody even knows who you are, or cares much. You are simply a compilation of tiny black dots on a screen representing various amounts of spittle over presumed slights. (And don't think I think I'm anything more.)

Gender justice? In real life I've stood up for reproductive rights, maternal leave, breaking glass ceilings and other things real people care about and can't let a silly word get in the way of.

And, this is not the Democratic party that I belong to-- it's a sounding board that doesn't put up candidates, raise money, make phone calls, attend town board meetings, address local or regional issues, or have any significant effect on local, regional, or national policies or elections.

But it can get into a tizzy over a word.

Wow, what a supportive guy... If this is representative of the Democratic Party on a local level, I'm going to have to re-think my membership.

[Dont call me Shirley]

1. MYSOGENY, ask any woman, we will tell you it is real, and it is really happening in this world.

What you don't understand, is that this place, du, is a place of knowledge sharing, idea sharing and this is very important work indeed.

Yes, we women get sick and tired of the women-bashing women-hating crap thrown at us 365/12/7/24/60 and sometimes we need to gripe about it, debrief it out. NO BIG DEAL!

So thanks for working to help gain equality for women. But don't let the word mysogeny get you up into a tizzy. And harpies come in both genders.

Thanks for posting boston bean. Can you link to original post?

[seabeyond]

2. du is morphing with di. nt

[NuclearDem]

3. If I can say two good things about that thread

they're that one, it's fantastic for showing certain posters' true colors (not just the usual suspects, but some new ones as well), and two, it's good for seeing who truly gets it, a number that seems to be growing.

(Actually, three: I also learned "shit" is the equivalent of p***y. The more you know!)

[MuseRider]

4. Yay for the harpies!

If not for us there would be little reason for the 'splainin' that makes one feel superior while claiming advocacy. I support you but I can damned well insult you any time I want.

[seabeyond]

5. I can damned well insult you any time I want.

the acceptance of this, allowed to insult at will, is telling.

i had a friend give me a picture of harpies. fun picture to hang on the wall. a reminder.

[malthaussen]

6. Well, jury voted 1-6 to keep it,so...

... presumably "harpies" is okay in their book. I thought the post in question interesting for a couple of reasons, particularly in perpetuating the idea that certain DUers are just looking to disrupt conversation by trying to regulate the behavior. I rather expect there are certain words the gentleman would never employ in social discourse, and that he'd be quite indignant and outraged if another ventured to use them. But perhaps I do him a disservice.

-- Mal

[seaglass]

7. I've put about 30 people on my ignore list this morning, criteria=sexist. I'm trying it to see if

it makes DU any more tolerable.

And BB, I am not a big supporter of Hillary but I did leave the D party over the sexism that was thrown at her by Democrats in 2008. Although I've voted for Dems only since my first Pres election in 1976 I refuse to add my name to a club that has too many members who think disrespecting woman is OK. I prefer to remain unenrolled and unassociated.

[chervilant]

8. The ever increasing sexism and misogyny on DU

SHOULD result in a meaningful revision of the TOS, right?

*****crickets *****

[seabeyond]

9. the thread in GD was locked, calling out the use of the p word. i was typing a reply to the one

stating the p word was not associated with her body parts. my reply i was not allowed to post, cause du calling out sexism is lockable, while using sexism fits community standards.

[seabeyond]

10. the p word is never used for the cowardly woman. it is exclusively used toward men to

insult their masculinity by bring women into it was weak. what an insult. reduce him to female genitals.

the fact that the word is NEVER used against women, is an obvious clue in with the bullshit argument that it is not sexist.

[JTFrog]

11. And yet today I read this in ATA regarding the use of the n-word:

Skinner:

Context matters.

If a person on this site is using that word to slur African Americans, then that person would be immediately banned from this site.

And here is a blast from the past:

Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-11 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Calling anyone a "pussy" is sexist. (nt)

So, apparently he picks his battles.

[seabeyond]

12. thank you for posting this. i needed to know administrations position. nt

[JTFrog]

13. At least he knows that it's sexist I guess.

Sexism. The acceptable bigotry.

I just don't understand the digging in of heels on the whole TOS and jury issues. It's really baffling to me considering the party platform.

[boston bean]

14. I don't know what thread you are speaking of. Could you provide a link?

[seabeyond]

15. here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025962845

[boston bean]

17. Well they got the system all locked up in a nice box.

Misogynistic/sexist comment ok to use.

But to discuss why they are misognynistic or sexist, well we can't have that!

[seabeyond]

18. yet, locking a thread is not dealing with an anonymous jury of whoever. it is set to be consistent.

it is not consistent. that goes beyond the "community standard" of any unknown person serving jury.

[NM_Birder]

35. Everywhere you go, people are the same, even groups

calling themselves "progressive", or "liberal", or my favorite "The big tent"......... crush themselves under the gravity of the groups own size.

The notion of free and open/honest debate attracts large numbers of people. Then as is the case with any small group controlling the freedom of a larger, what is considered "acceptable" becomes more and more narrow. Ultimately what WAS a platform for the advancement of progressive thinking becomes a strict adherence to specific personal objectives. for example:

reading DU it is virtually mandatory that you believe all cops are racist, black hating murderers. period, good luck with any opinion otherwise. All events everywhere are to be ignored, except the incidents of racist action by less than 1% of police.
reading DU it is unacceptable to discuss any race issue, ....unless white people are blamed in the first three sentences. Otherwise "you don't get it, and are a racist".

reading DU it is absolutely mandatory that you not question a Democrat's political record, and regardless if a Democrat is not the "all knowing soothsayer" as legend tells us, the final solution is to vote them in without question. The DU members running around demanding acknowledgment and the "taking of oaths" to vote Democrat regardless........ is chilling. Being screwed by one party is the only acceptable solution, to being screwed by another .......... so long as obedience is maintained. Both parties screw the people, and the people obediently carry out it's party's marching orders and cut each other down at every opportunity. Again, inspiring.

And now, ..."pussy" is an acceptable term to call a "Rethulican, Repugnant, Republicon" etc etc etc, ....name calling is no longer something that happens occasionally, it is encouraged. And the use of sexist terminology is acceptable because in an ever increasing game of "one up on you", only the most outrageous terminology is given any weight of truth. Sexist terminology is acceptable, questioning the use of sexist terminology is forbidden.

I don't think anyone should be surprised that so many people have left DU, when enough people pee in the pool,.... that peeing in the pool becomes a rule, most rational people get out the water. And what remains is a closed mind, finger pointing exercise in futility, with every "pool pee-er", ....... peeing in the pool and complaining about the pee content in the pool. And then blaming everyone not in the pool for all the pee.

Like others I know,..... we "political mud bloods", (as was jokingly used, ...loved that by the way) became disillusioned with the direction of the Republican party, and basicly drifted away from giving a crap about anything political. I found my way to DU because my girlfriend likes the lounge and a few of the groups, oddly enough not the birding group. Ironic that Democratic Underground, is less flexible in open discussion, and MORE tolerant of socially unacceptable hate speech. I live my life, enjoy my success, and try to better my failures,...... I know I don't belong here, my girlfriend told me so from the start.

Admiring Bernie Sanders is allowed, however thinking independently of the Democratic Party is not, irony thy name is DU.
Take Care Seabeyond, thanks for the opportunity to blather.

[cyberswede]

21. To be fair, the hosts are supposed to lock Meta topics.

That's why that OP was locked.

A discussion of why p***y is sexist would be fine, as long as it wasn't disruptive meta or whining about a jury.

[seabeyond]

16. another was locked. we have recently had OPs calling out du racism. those posts stood. why are Op

locked when calling out du sexism.

cant ask, cause it gets locked.

what is the difference? why the hypocrisy. hosts can be consistent. if they are not, then we are going ot feel like their is an imbalance, or sexism is acceptable on du, while racism is allowed to be challenged.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. good question, why the hypocrisy? indeed.

no star here. will not be one. has not been one in over a year. will not be one until ToS is changed.

[cyberswede]

22. Can you help me out?

Did the OPs calling out racism actually mention a DU jury or DUers (or other forms of Meta)?

If they did and weren't locked, it's possible they weren't alerted.

[boston bean]

23. In the post sea references above,

was there a jury result being complained about?

Here is the post:

why isn't calling someone a "pussy" sexist ?



This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by MerryBlooms (a host of the General Discussion forum).
There are posts all over the place calling Cheney a "pussy", curious why this isn't considered sexist on DU ?

Or can sexism be allowed so long as enough people agree that "dick vagina", is a humorous enough parody for "go fuck yourself" Cheney ?

Seems it would be within the bounds as your scenario?

[cyberswede]

24. I believe the hosts felt that this part was "disruptive meta"

There are posts all over the place calling Cheney a "pussy", curious why this isn't considered sexist on DU ?

FWIW, hosts also agreed that the original OP with the p-word should have been hidden.

And I still wonder if the OP(s) sea mentioned calling out racism on DU were even alerted. I'd be happy to check, if I had a link to one of them.

[seabeyond]

25. Bday cake to make. Can't hunt links. Maybe others can find or later. Yes du was referenced.

It was a discussion of racism in du.

We consistently find women's issue shut down as whining, of course about du, or meta. While others are legitimate concer. We are talking about a very progressive democratic issue. Women's issue. Part of democratic platform.

When sexism transpires on du, it is merely an issue that is progressive and example it is in all places.

What kind of feminists would we be talking about musogynist behavior yet ignoring when it happens on du.

Thanks for coming in here. I understand your position. But I disagree.

When I get on my laptop instead of phone, I will try to find the very legitimate discussion of racism here on du.

[cyberswede]

28. Thanks...birthday ake sounds way more fun!

I don't doubt that posts about racism on DU have happened; I just wonder if they weren't alerted, and that's why they weren't locked.

Have fun with your cake!

[NM_Birder]

37. I did not write the line mentioning MerryBlooms.

Still trying to wrap my head around a thread I started being ....... "off topic" ....twice.

A few of my coworkers, that from time to time look over my shoulder as I try to engage in conversation here, .... were left speechless. No wagers were made as to what the outcome of calling out "pussy" as sexist would be, one of the few times there was 100% agreement. Of course it's sexist, .....what could be more degrading, demeaning and insulting than to call someone a set of female genitals ? right ? Wrong,... DU endorses the use of the word.

Nope, calling someone a "pussy" is just fine with DU, in fact I've seen it displayed hundreds of times in subsequent threads, over and over and over .............. all in good fun right ?

There were no juries, just a hall monitor shutting down my "off topic" questions. have to admit, I'm curious what reaction I would get if I asked the hall monitors to "quit pussy footing around, and shut down the sexist threads" ? My first thought is that "MerryBlooms" is a female, just guessing from the name, except I'm afraid I would be called a sexist, profiling, homophobe.

[ismnotwasm]

19. Meh-- fuck that

Making assumptions on an Internet site about posters level of RL activism based on what they choose to post is not only baiting--it's acutely asinine.

And as far as posting ones own level of activism, especially in any area where one is claiming to be an ally, at the same time supporting the underlying cause of the social ills, whether denying white privilege or pretending sexist words have no power- well whether such activism is true or not is open to question; many questions in fact.
In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's complete bullshit.

[Warpy]

26. I would rather have someone doing the real work to help us support our rights

than a bunch of armchair warriors declaring jihad over his unfortunate language.

I would far rather wince at words than blow fits and drive allies away.

Yes, there are some words I wish would go away, along with the attitude behind them that says women are weak and cowardly. No one who has seen a woman push a baby into the world can possibly think either. Unfortunately, linguistic habits do persist and bad words can be used by good people who are on our side.

[boston bean]

27. Words people use show a certain mindset. Ignore it if you want, but I won't.

[seaglass]

29. Words don't magically go away and they certainly don't if you sit back with your mouth shut

because you don't want to upset an "ally". The only way sexist slurs go away is if it becomes socially unacceptable to use them.

[BainsBane]

30. Right, because whenever I go to my local Democratic office

Someone calls me a harpy and a p....sy.



The reason people don't complain about language in such places is because civilized people do not speak that way. They wouldn't dare refer to women working for the party as harpies or men as p....suies. It's uncivil, uncouth behavior that most people know better than to engage in. People pull shit here they wouldn't dare to in public life, and then whine when someone calls them on it.

[boston bean]

31. I know huh. Can you imagine a gaveling of the group to come to order

and if some women spoke up, he told the harpies to shut up for wanting the word pussy to be frowned upon during discussions!

[NuclearDem]

32. Hey, fellow HOFers, I feel obliged to warn you...

...that I'm apparently a stalker now.

[ismnotwasm]

33. Oh dear

I'd ask who the lucky recipent is-- but I reallydont want to know.

State your opinion = stalking, but only one in certain cases, like if you're a feminist.

[seabeyond]

36. yes. havent we all been there. to reply, ON A DISCUSSION BOARD, makes a person a stalker.

i know the poster before i ran into that last night

[Lunacee_2013]

34. Ahhh, yes.

Nothing like seeing a man tell women what he's done for them all while calling them sexist names. How clueless can one be? Btw, mr. man, this is why I no longer call myself a democrat. I still vote for the left, or at least the center, but until the good ol' boys in the Democratic Party let us girls play along too, I'm not coming back.