Booth babes need not apply

[seabeyond]

There is a growing chorus of frustration in the geek community with - and there's no other way to put this - pretty girls pretending to be geeks for attention. San Diego Comic-Con is the largest vehicle, but it's hardly the only convention populated with "hot chicks" wearing skimpy outfits simply to get a bunch of gawking geeks’ heads to turn, just to satisfy their hollow egos.

*

There are lots of geeks who are female. Some of these female geeks are pretty girls. I find it fantastic that women are finally able to enjoy a culture that has predominately been male-oriented and male-driven. The presence of female geeks means that the fiction we're reading is broadening and, frankly, getting better in quality. It means nerdy films and television shows aren't relying on damsel in distress stories and objectification of women to draw readers. It means content is broadening and becoming smarter and more accessible. I want more of that. And be it known that I am good friends with several stunningly beautiful women who cosplay as stunningly beautiful characters from comics, sci-fi, fantasy and other genres of fandom. They are, each of them, bone fide geeks. They belong with us. Being beautiful is not a crime.

*

I call these girls "6 of 9". They have a superpower: In the real world, they're beauty-obsessed, frustrated wannabe models who can't get work. They decide to put on a "hot" costume, parade around a group of boys notorious for being outcasts that don't get attention from girls, and feel like a celebrity. They're a "6" in the "real world", but when they put on a Batman shirt and head to the local fandom convention du jour, they instantly become a "9". They're poachers. They're a pox on our culture. As a guy, I find it repugnant that, due to my interests in comic books, sci-fi, fantasy and role playing games, video games and toys, I am supposed to feel honored that a pretty girl is in my presence. It's insulting.

*

However, you "6 of 9s" out there? You're just gross. There's an entire contingent of guys in geekdom who absolutely love you, because inside, they're 13 year old boys who like to objectify women and see them as nothing more than butts and a pair of boobs to be leered at. Have fun with them, and don't be shocked when they send you XBox Live messages with ASCII penises. Those of us who actually like substance? We'll be over here celebrating great comics, great games, great art, great movies and great television, because we're actually attracted to a completely different body part: the brain.

http://geekout.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/24/booth-babes-need-not-apply/?hpt=hp_c3

__________________________

we are really seeing such an issue with all this in this community. interesting. i think.

this is a man that is addressing it from an unique perspective. i think it is a good thing. i especially like that he speaks out that he finds it insulting to his gender. good for him.

[NYC_SKP]

1. I suppose it's all a matter of personal taste. I like geeky "Library Girl" types...

...glasses, no makeup, etc.

And, I'm kind of creeped out, yet fascinated by women who dress up for events, like budweiser girls, but I've never seen these "geek beauties".

I think the article is mocking the stereotypes fairly enough, but in doing so perpetuates other stereotypes, ie "grown men as 13 year old boys who like to objectify women".

OK, fine, as long as we all accept that there are also women in large numbers who seem to go for brainless macho hunks over intelligent articulate thoughtful men.

It's a big world with a lot of different "types".

Viva la difference!

[seabeyond]

3. "grown men as 13 year old boys who like to objectify women".

except those men are making a pretty hostile environment for all women and girls, so hardly the same. though i agree with what you say. i do not think we just shrug the aggressive amnner of insults for women to not feel welcome in an environment. hopefully there are a greater number of men that enjoy this geek world, that are actually grown up to challenge these "grown men as 13 year old boys who like to objectify women" so women are more comfortable in this environment.

[NYC_SKP]

5. I wish you and I would live to see a time when the popular media would stop...

..perpetuating all of this, because I think the single biggest blame for it goes to the sexualization of everything for purposes of commercialization.

Movies, television, fashion, toys, you name it, all seem to support the same misplaced values.

Sad.

[seabeyond]

6. so true and agree totally. nt

[annabanana]

2. cue: Where the Boys Are

&feature=related



AND
I'll Follow the Boys:

[seabeyond]

4. Where the Boys Are

ha ha. thinking about teen years, going out with friends to find the boys. and then that old fashion song. that was fun.

[annabanana]

9. as a "woman of a certain age"

This is not such a distant memory.
.


. Neither is "Mad Men".

[seabeyond]

10. mad man really bugs me becuase with the step back that we have made of late

on the sexisim and objectification, mad men feels more like a nostalgic, this is the way it should be, what we are promoting, what we want to go back to, kinda thing instead of how people are suggesting it is to remember and never go back to.

mad men feels like a manipulative reinforcement of that mentality.

i was a little over a decade after the mad men mentality. a kid during that time. my walking into the workforce was the beginning of pc, non harassment, we are better than this, mentality.

[PassingFair]

33. I think "Mad Men" is doing the opposite of reinforcing sexism.

It shows how phony and hollow those 50's "icons" actually are.

I think it will continue to do so.

I don't know if this is by design, or if the show is evolving.

[redqueen]

40. Your post reminds me of something I read about All In The Family.

Apparently audiences of all ideological persuasions loved it... those who identified with Meathead and those who identified with Archie... each was able to enjoy the banter and come away feeling validated and happy with the show's dialogue.

People tend to see what they want to, so it wouldn't surprise me if Mad Men worked the same way... allowing those who are reviled by the mores of the time as well as those who think of them as 'the good old days' to enjoy it as much as the other.

[seabeyond]

43. come away feeling validated and happy with the show's dialogue.

thank you redq. this is what i have been feeling and since we have taken such a step back i think it is feeding the young that did not actually experience it. so more are identifying with archie instead of meathead.

i have not been able to explain my issue with the show. this is it.

[redqueen]

44. I don't watch it, but if it's presented in such a way,

with no clear condemnation (e.g. discussed in the same manner as American nationalism in that show on HBO... Newsroom, I think?), in the current climate in which misogyny is practically oozing out of every form of media, with very few even questioning it, let alone seriously criticizing it... and the backlash against feminism... and the war on women... yeah, not great.

Maybe sexism does get the same kind of undeniable condemnation in Mad Men as American nationalism gets in Newsroom. I sure hope so.

[redqueen]

7. Fuck this guy.

Booth 'babes' are PAID to be there.

He can shove his fucked up, misogynist, bullshit theory about how they're doing it to feed their "hollow egos" straight up his smug, stupid ass.

WTF

[seabeyond]

11. this is

where you and i differ. i see it in different things. i tend to agree with the dude on this. but, what i also see in the article is a male perspective that i hear, that is different from ours. they are not seeing it from a womans perspective. they are offended because how they see it as insulting to them.

we see it insulting to women. being women

men see this insulting to men.

we can acknowledge it is insulting to both gender.

but, it is like i listen to the men saying, i am not going to a strip club. they are offensive. some woman shaking her boobs at me for my money, and i am not getting anything. it is like insulting a man is preceived as such a boob that he would fall for that.

now, it is not the way WE want men to see it. we want them to see the women in this position cause of circumstance and the wrong using a woman in this manner.

[redqueen]

13. He is being an ass.

It's as simple as that. Booth babes are paid. He smears them as being there solely for attention to feed their "hollow egos'.

And if he is seriously claiming there are women he so kindly RATES AS A SIX going there solely for attention, not becuase they're interested in the con, then he better have some Fucking proof.

My bet is he couldn't score with any of the "sixes" and he's venting his sexually frustrated spleen. He calls them names, denigrates their appearance... there is NOTHING redeeming about this piece.

[petronius]

21. Despite the title, I actually don't think he's talking about the paid models

It sounds as though he means women who are attempting to access the modeling industry by way of YouTube celebrity - it's sort of a turf war between the 'real' geeks/cosplayers and the 'frauds.'

Not that that changes the assholicness of his screed, or the essential wrongness of 'booth babes', of course...

[redqueen]

22. Where does YouTube come into it?

The simple fact that the target of his writing is almost indecipherable means this creep shouldn't be featured on any major site.

I did see one throwaway line about models posing with game controllers. That seemed nonsensical. Women pose in all manner of ways and with all kinds of props. That has nothing to do with geek culture. That's pornified culture, which he said nothing about, and I doubt he even understands what it is. Most people don't, it's like fish noticing water.

[petronius]

23. What I mean is, achieving popularity on YouTube or other social media

(i.e. lots of hits/friends/whatever) has become a path to stardom and professional advancement. My sense is that he's targeting attendees who are pursuing that strategy, rather than the hired models...

[seabeyond]

24. i thought the title not going with article, too

i rechecked to see if there was a different title i was not picking up on. i did not see him talking about booth babes

[redqueen]

26. Many of the commenters at CNN

seem to think he's only talking about booth babes.

Lots of others are interpreting it as being about attendees.

So he's an asshole AND he can't write for shit.

[redqueen]

25. Ohhhhh...

Like vloggers?

Eh, if so then I'd still like to know his criteria for determining if they're "real" geeks. Also it seems more than suspicious that the only people allegedly faking geekness for some kinda leg up on fame are apparently women.

[Irishonly]

35. I don't know about YouTube.

I thought he was talking about the women attending although he ignores the fact beautiful women are going because they like the films, ect. but do not consider themselves geeks.

[redqueen]

8. Seriously, fuck this guy.

There’s no doubt about it – girls in geek culture have it hard, and it’s probably going to be that way for a long time. At least until men stop lusting after women (so, like, never). But that doesn’t mean that women aren’t welcomed and accepted in geek culture. Women elevate the culture, and thus, the content. And, I’ll admit, you ladies are much nicer to be around.

Sexist little shit.

[seabeyond]

12. this was the conditioned male comment that so many repeat so often. no, i did not like this

part of the article.

this is the be all, end all, the universe is all about the male sexuality that has been promoted to such an extent the male sexuality is a damn cartoon caricature.

[redqueen]

14. It's not a caricature.

He's saying so, straight up. He is saying women are sex objects and that's never going to change. 'Sorry ladies, but at least I think you're nicer to be around.'

He can fuck off.

He's one of those faux Nice GuysTM. His bullshit lends more credence to my theory that he's smearing women who rejected him as not being 'real geeks'.

And that shit about 'you're welcome in geek culture'... who the Fuck does he think he is? 40% of the attendees were women.

[seabeyond]

15. the caricature is the belief that male sexuality is be all, end all, the universe is all about the

and yes, he readily buys into it. why not. this is all about him. i agree. and i am not making lite of that fact. nor do i in my posts.

i dont know that i agree with you. but, you may be right. you may be right on. that may be the sense of entitlement in the stripper scenario, too.

[redqueen]

16. The way he tears down these women, whom he doesn't even know...

speaks volumes.

I know damn well he didn't do any damn survey. He's just brimming with hate for a bunch of female attendees at these conventions.

[seabeyond]

17. see, i am not necessarily seeing that.

as much as we call the men out in this forum, we have a sense of protection of women, too. and i do not always feel that. sometimes i feel that women actually have a role in this. why wouldnt a man feel it offensive that a woman strips down to use her sexuality as a tool to get men to do something? i would think that would be a given for men. i think that would establish a sense of resentment alone. (if i were a man). i would see that as insulting.

i think of men that allow themselves to be treated that way, even in a supposed gain, to be as weak as the women that allow a man to control her thru whatever male means we may talk about.

i see them both as games for dominance and respect neither.

[redqueen]

18. What makes you think his claim has any merit whatsoever?

Conventions aren't cheap. Especially not comic con.

So these "sixes" are paying good money for tickets, hotel rooms, etc. just so they can get attention from geeks? Really?

[seabeyond]

19. i am not a part of the culture and i do not know anything about it. i do not know

about the people that participate.

people are people, of both genders. he is equally calling out the men, but that one part that you highlighted, where as i said, he does that bullshit male caricature of male sexuality. they ALL have to throw that in cause it is the very definition of being a man.

but, i do not see it as far fetched that a game is played by groups of both gender with the majority of both gender wanting the shit to stop.

i. do. not. know., though. i really do not.

there was one article about one of these conventions and so many of the girls dressed as the sexy leia, not the princess liea. (i know nothing about this shit, so this is hard for me to sound informed). but, there is something there the misogyny in all of this group, yet there are so many women playing in it. i do not know if that is what is being called out. the title said booth babes, but, reading the article i was not necessarily hearing it talk about the actual booth babes, but people that participate in the conventions. i do not see the booth babes as wanna be gooks, just doing a job.

[redqueen]

20. Yeah, most female characters in geek cultute are sexualized.

He's not insulting and slandering the "beautiful" geeks, who are there dressing up in sexy outfits. No, because they 'deserve' to do so, by his decree, because they meet his criteria for being "real" geeks.

And be it known that I am good friends with several stunningly beautiful women who cosplay as stunningly beautiful characters from comics, sci-fi, fantasy and other genres of fandom. They are, each of them, bone fide geeks. They belong with us.

He's insulting the "sixes" whom he's judged as not being "real" geeks, for whatever unspecified reason.

I have no idea where the "manipulating" is coming from. What, manipulating their Fucking eyes? Cruelly forcing them to look at mere "sixes"?

[whathehell]

53. Exactly...What about men who pretend to be feminists and God knows what else

just to get laid.

This guy can cry me a river.

[seabeyond]

54. nothing like listening to tell a bunch of women who they are, what the feel, what they should say

and think.

i am thinking about a particular group that i read this morning. fuckin funny.

edit... oh, all in the name of their feminism.

[siouxsiecreamcheese]

27. All one needs to do is ask one of these "booth babes" questions

Chances are, a woman with knowledge of "geeky" stuff will answer enthusiastically and know exactly what your talking about. Most of these women are paid to show T & A and act like their interested in the nerdy guys. In reality they couldn't care less and just need the paycheck. I'm a 35 year old female gamer and co-creator of an independent game studio and fortunately, I never had to put up with that type of crap.

[seabeyond]

28. I never had to put up with that type of crap.

good to hear. and thumbs up to you being in the industry and a part of all this to help shift, i say as a mother of two teen sons and particular what boys play, lol.

[Xipe Totec]

29. Speaking of the real thing...

http://www.themarysue.com/google-science-fair-winner/

[redqueen]

30. I'd say she's a nerd.

No idea if she likes comic books or video games or role playing games or what have you...

[Xipe Totec]

31. One of my favorite nerds passed away on Monday

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/24/tech/sally-ride-user-reaction/index.html

[redqueen]

32. Suddenly, blowback.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/07/25/geek-girl-on-the-street-reports-joe-peacock-needs-to-stfu/

...

For those of you who have not read Joe’s CNN opus ragging on booth babes, Olivia Munn and Frag Dolls, let me sum up the thesis for you: Our friend Joe is complaining about the fact that multi-billion dollar corporations like FOX, FX and Maxim hire scantily clad women to pimp their products and hang all over geek boys at cons and con related parties. He is complaining about young women – who have been inundated with images of “what’s hot, what’s cool” all their lives by the mainstream media – following in the example of said scantily clad women and putting on scantily clad costumes of their own creation and parading around cons with the objective of getting male attention.

In essence, he is complaining about a problem which has been created by… wait for it… men.

And, in the process, he “slut shames” women who choose to express their own sexuality via cosplay (regardless of the underlying intent, it’s their choice and fuck you for telling them what is or is not right in that arena, it’s their body) and the experiential learning which comes with that process… which is in the end, controlled by the reactions of men.

(snip)

The true problem is that corporate culture – based on the knowledge that some men sexually desire women that look a particular way and that some male geeks have money – take advantage of and exploit those known factors by hiring sexually attractive women to pimp their products in attempts to devoid said geeky men of said money. Instead of addressing this and the underlying societal causes of this trope, Joe blames the women who the perpetrator companies employ.

...

This next one is really worth reading the whole thing... sooooo good.

http://www.chickswithcrossbows.com/?p=1800

...

The person wrong on the internet is this dude right here. While he attempts to offer criticism on the phenomenon of booth babes–something I also find troubling–Joe Peacock manages to write a piece positively dripping with the underlying sexism that is ubiquitous in nerd culture. The lists of sins Peacock commits in this article is long and tragically overshadows any valid points he has. However, I will attempt to address the main points best I can.

Instead of tackling the real underlying problem in my opinion–that corporations think it’s a great idea to use half-naked women to sell their products–he instead attacks the women themselves. Sorry, perhaps “women” is the wrong term. He’s talking about “wannabes who couldn’t make it as car show eye candy slapping on a Batman shirt and strutting around comic book conventions instead.”

(snip)

So, what’s the problem with these women exactly? Other than simply not being genuinely interested in nerd culture, they just aren’t all that attractive. Peacock claims that in the non-nerd world, these girls would only measure up to a 6. However, simply by dressing up in nerdy costumes they ascend to a 9. So these women dress up in revealing clothing, think they’re way hotter than they really are, and bask in the attention of dudes who they totally wouldn’t actually sleep with? Those bitches.

Holy objectification, Batman! Not only did this guy just demonize feminine displays of sexuality, but he goes as far to describe women using a number as if her lack of attractiveness somehow degrades her worth as a human being. Even more confounding is that Peacock goes on to link to the fantastic Fat, Ugly, or Slutty without realizing that he is, in a form much more subtle than that website shows, helping to promote and perpetuate some of the very misogynist attitudes that give rise to the harassment he himself is obviously opposed to.

...

[seabeyond]

34. here is another article on cnn talking about that article.

jamespeach: "... #5 The problem is not these supposed culture vultures. Don't get mad at them. Get mad at the fact that you pay crap-tons of money to buy drawings of women who can't biologically exist. Get mad at the fact that you are into characters who wouldn't give you the time of day, not the women who dress like those characters. Have you READ a comic lately? I don't want my daughters even seeing that mess. The problem isn't the real women, the problem is the fictional ones that you spend billions on. YOU built that mode of operating, not the handful of Olivia Munns who are making a living from it. If you ask me, I'd rather actual women make some of the money from thirsty nerds than the middle-aged men who draw impossible boobs all day. You're paying for it already, man. It was central to the industry before you were driving."

http://geekout.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/25/overheard-on-cnn-com-readers-take-issue-with-booth-babes-she-geek-stereotypes/?hpt=hp_c3

[One_Life_To_Give]

36. 6 of 9 is a comparison to STVoyagers 7 of 9

IMO the 6 of 9 reference is likely a slight that she does not fully measure up to the standard set by the fictional Borg woman 7 of 9 played by actress Jeri Ryan. Now the comparison might concern conventional attractiveness. But might be more probable to describe a lacking of "7's" scientific abilities in Astrophysics, exobiology, pretty much all areas outside of Warp Field theory where obviously the Half Klingon Bellana Torres is the unquestioned expert aboard.

I am inclined to give the author the benefit of the doubt. A model going to a geek convention is search of an MRS would be pretty lame.

[redqueen]

37. Did you read it? There's no room for any doubt.

He makes it explicitly clear that he's rating their appearance.

[One_Life_To_Give]

38. Rolled a 2?

I understand where you are coming from but;

He is lamenting Gold-diggers that pretend to be geeks.
Like the Squire of Gothos, Form without Substance.
AKA a Trophy Wife.
Great for your ego but don't try and hold a conversation. They probably don't know who Schrodinger is and can't understand why he didn't have a dog instead.

[redqueen]

39. Wife?

Yeah. You didn't read it.

[One_Life_To_Give]

41. Ever been to a comic con?

Being middle aged I havn't had that kind of energy in a a few decades. But having been there done that spent the time in engineering school etc. I think gives me a little different perspective on what he is trying to say. I have done the trade shows where the Molex's and Amp's of the world have their models to try and get more of the male dominated audience to visit the booth. Pretty faces that didn't know the difference between an amp and an ohm.


Having experienced that culture I have a distinct view of what he is trying to tell me. He is complaining about an influx of attractive women putting on store bought costumes without understanding the substance behind it. Observing that those males with brains still located in their pants are attracted and fawn over them However the more mature, such as himself, members of the gender find them single dimensional, uninteresting, in his own sexist term a "6". Where if they actually were geeks as well he would have rated them a "9". Note this IMO is an ex-post-facto description applied to one the author deemed shy of being Jerri Ryans character "7 of 9".

OTOH Maybe it's just the plus-sized PowderPuff Gal trying to knock the competition?

[redqueen]

42. I've been to science fiction cons, comic cons, and a few other kinds.

I'm not extrapolating from what he's written or attempting to suss out other possible meanings. I'm just commenting on what he said.

[seabeyond]

45. and yet another article, another perspective of this mans opinion in the original OP

The other problem with this whole conversation about which women are legitimately geeks and which women are just faking it for male attention is that it still assumes that men are the ultimate arbiters. It’s another reminder to women that while we may be appreciated for our decorative qualities, we certainly shouldn’t expect to be welcomed beyond that as active participants. It’s another hoop to jump through, and a glaring indication of the fact that we’re seen as girls first, geeks second, and that we’re always going to have to work harder to prove that we belong.

It also assumes that all the women who attend conventions in sexy attire are doing it for the same reasons. This is patently false. Some women just genuinely enjoy dressing as highly sexualized characters, and they’re geeks through and through. Some women are being paid as professional models by major corporations to sell products to men, and shouldn’t be shamed for doing an honest day’s work. Some women are new to geek culture and are finding their way, and yes, some women are looking for attention and validation and a way to feel liked and accepted.

What’s wrong with that? Geek culture has traditionally been a haven for men who are looking for acceptance and haven’t found it in other places. Why should women be treated any differently? This idea that pretty girls have it all together and that they’re all consciously using their pretty girl powers to hold dominion over nerds really needs to die already. It’s not true. Learning how to be comfortable with ourselves is a lifelong journey for most women.

*

This whole conversation could have been really positive. It could have focused on the idea that geek demographics are shifting, and that hiring scantily clad women to sell your product is no longer the best way to go about it. It could have focused on the fact that there are a lot of different ways to be a geek, and celebrated those “stunningly beautiful women who cosplay as stunningly beautiful characters from comics, sci-fi, fantasy and other genres of fandom”. It could have encouraged women who are new to geek culture or who hover on the fringes to really find what they like and get involved.

http://geekout.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/26/in-defense-of-lady-geeks/?hpt=hp_c2

[redqueen]

46. Outstanding. SO glad she wrote this response.

It truly sucks when you find those people and realize that they don’t believe you’re one of them and when they make it clear that you’re going to have to jump through some hoops to prove you’re worthy of being included. It especially stings when it comes to one particular element of being a female geek: the part where you are simultaneously appreciated and denigrated for your sexuality.

[seabeyond]

47. she has a lot of good points and the overwhelming that girls have to be "approved"

"allowed" to be a part, by the boys.... which is a given in a patriarchy society

[redqueen]

48. Yeah, that really pissed me off in the original editorial...

"Girls are welcome in geek culture"?

Fuck that ... girls ARE a part of geek culture, have been since the beginning (despite the constant, widespread misogyny) and no strutting peacock gets to pretend he's some kind of gatekeeper because he hasn't stopped subscribing to patriarchal bullshit.

[lumberjack_jeff]

49. As an attendee of many trade shows, booth babes are insulting.

When I'm at a trade show, I'm there for business reasons. I'm not impressed that your paint/bearings/computers/electronic gear/powdercoating services are promoted by a young woman in a bikini.

Put some clothes on her and adequately educate her about your product, then we'll talk.

[seabeyond]

50. thank you. nt

[redqueen]

51. Well said. nt

[RandySF]

52. Fine. More booth babes for me. :)