Rapists Explain Themselves on Reddit, and We Should Listen

[redqueen]

Trigger warning, obviously.

Just the excerpts on Jezebel were really hard to read. Not sure if I can handle a whole thread of it.

That said, anyone who has any doubt about the consequences of rape culture needs to read it. That is the result of people hemming and hawing and acting as if men "can't help it". Those ideas enable this behavior. People are no more incapable of not raping than they are of not murdering. It is long past time to end rape culture, and stop making excuses for rape.

http://jezebel.com/5929544/rapists-explain-themselves-on-reddit-and-we-should-listen

Rapists and would-be rapists are opening up about "the other side of the story" —theirs — on a massive Reddit thread about the motivations behind sexual assault. The conversations range from exasperating to disturbing, and the whole of it may make you want to roll your eyes in disgust. But you shouldn't dismiss the thread as mere rape apologia. There's plenty of that, sure, but there's also a lot more to it.

Yesterday, a Redditor solicited stories of sexual assault from assailants. "Reddit's had a few threads about sexual assault victims, but are there any redditors from the other side of the story?" he asked. "What were your motivations? Do you regret it?"

Given the disturbingly high amount of MRA activists and rape apologist Redditors— a recent Reddit thread counted the many, many ways the site is "anti-women" — it's easy to see why some would be skeptical about the possibility for productive discussion. "In other words: Yeah, yeah, enough about rape victims, let's hear from the REAL VICTIMS here: the POOR MENZ," Shit Reddit Says lamented. A commenter added, "The thought that my rapist is PROBABLY a redditor and could very well be getting patted on the back RIGHT NOW by HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE for relating how rough raping me was for him is making me literally nauseous."

But it's impossible to talk about the reasons people rape without involving rapists in the discussion. Rapists aren't hiding in the bushes: around two-thirds of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim, and 73 percent of sexual assaults are perpetrated by a non-stranger. It's a mistake to think we're justifying rapists' actions by listening to their stories. Some of them are tough to read, but their brutal honesty effectively illustrates how a lack of communication and education perpetuates rape culture. Ignoring or dismissing these men (and women) out of hand may be an effective coping strategy for a given individual, but not for society. It gets us nowhere.

...

[malthaussen]

1. Of course we must pity the rapists.

Wouldn't you pity anyone who has lost the use of both hands?

I've always thought that, setting aside all other considerations just for argument, this apparent difficulty with "No means no" was puzzling. Simple courtesy tells us that when an acquaintence asks us not to do something, we only override the objection if there is a clear and pressing need to do so. There is no such clear and pressing need in matters of sexual relations, so simply as an act of courtesy, we should honor the objection.

Of course, simple courtesy is a dying commodity.

-- Mal

[redqueen]

2. Pity the rapist?

You must have misread something.

[malthaussen]

3. Seems to me the argument...

... that excuses are continually made on the basis of the rapist not being able to control himself, is tantamount to saying we must pity the poor rapist. If rapists are being consoled for how hard the act was on them, that certainly sounds like pitying the rapist. It's a disturbing trend I find in the case of a lot of crimes against persons, to care more about the perp than the victim, and so I was making a knee-jerk reaction.

-- Mal

[redqueen]

4. Oh yeah sorry, I introduced that line of thought...

I hear too much of that and see it here too.

The piece in Jezebel isn't saying that though. It's just about having a serious look at rape, and what factors influence it. I've seen people dismiss the reality of rape culture and the discussion at Reddit does a great job of throwing that reality into sharp relief.

[malthaussen]

5. I was impressed by the article

Rape (and the rape culture) being such a volatile subject, it often seems to me that the people involved are more interested in throwing stones at the other side than in searching for truth. And on many topics, even ones not as volatile as rape, explanation is often seen as tantamount to excuse. But obviously, to have the discussion, we need to have the discussion. It shows character for the victim side of the rape equation to be able to listen to the other side with any degree of openness. It takes courage for the attacker to honestly express what he was thinking at the time -- at least, it does in those cases where he isn't just offering an excuse. I found the bit at the bottom about the guys not even looking at the women telling. It seems to speak to something that is deeply embedded in so many aspects of our culture, not just the boy/girl part: if we would only spend five consecutive seconds looking at other people, we would find it a lot harder to ignore them.

-- Mal

[redqueen]

6. Nice insight re: communication.

It was disturbing to me to think that people could be so disconnected as not to even look at their partner's face.

That's just chilling.

[malthaussen]

7. My out-there hypothesis is that our culture wants to promote depersonalization

... everywhere, and in everything, because then the individual will feel even more alone, isolated, and vulnerable to predators than he would if he felt connection to others. Thus he would feel more afraid, and be more easy to manipulate.

-- Mal

[ismnotwasm]

8. Men can stop rape

http://www.mencanstoprape.org/