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Thu Sep 6, 2018, 11:53 AM

Can someone explain the words "ratfucking" and "gaslighting"?

I understand they are bad things, but can't figure out what they are.

Maybe my brain cells are getting too old.

Thanks

For extra credit, what is "passive aggression"?

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Reply Can someone explain the words "ratfucking" and "gaslighting"? (Original post)
JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2018 OP
Journeyman Sep 2018 #1
MaryMagdaline Sep 2018 #2
MaryMagdaline Sep 2018 #3
JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2018 #8
MaryMagdaline Sep 2018 #9
ariadne0614 Sep 2018 #4
byronius Sep 2018 #5
mr_lebowski Sep 2018 #6
gibraltar72 Sep 2018 #7
JonLP24 Oct 2018 #10
Stuart G Oct 2018 #11

Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 11:54 AM

1. Google both terms. The definition is the first thing up for both . . .

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 11:56 AM

2. Gaslighting is from an old movie with Ingrid Bergman and Charles Boyer

The woman's husband was playing tricks on her to make her seem that she was the crazy one ... lowering the gas lamps to cause changes in the lighting of the house and denying that there was any change in the light ... all types of tricks like that. So, the in the political sense, Republicans denying that there is anything going on; all is normal; we are crazy; we are paranoid.

Ratfuck is from the Donald Segretti days of Watergate. When you play political tricks on your opponent ... ordering 1000 pizzas to your opponent's rally and then getting them stuck with the bill. Stuff like that.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 12:00 PM

3. Passive agressive

Is asking us to define terms for you.

When I say "you should know the answer to that," you respond, "I was just asking. No harm intended. Why are you so mean and obnoxious?"

Seriously, I can't figure out if you are being passive aggressive, gaslighting me or just ratfucking or trolling. Either way, you are extremely clever and I bit.

Have a nice day!

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 02:52 PM

8. Thanks to all, I think I'm closer to understanding.

"Ratfucking" seems easy and obvious.

"Gaslighting" is more subtle, and the victim may not know there is ratfucking going on or that someone else is doing it.

"Passive-aggressive", well, I'll have to keep puzzling on that one. It seems like a coping mechanism.



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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 04:55 PM

9. I specialize in passive aggressive 😊

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 12:13 PM

5. Ratfucking is a Nixonian term revived to describe Karl Rove's methods.

Conscienceless trickery, that's essentially what it is. Damaging a political system in a hundred different ways to defeat meaningful progress because one chooses the path of the cunning orc instead of the human citizen.

Russians have redefined it. They kind of own it now.

Passive aggressive is burning the toast because you don't want to argue.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 01:06 PM

6. Here's my best 'passive aggressive' example ...

Abused Wife: "If you don't stop treating me like this, I'm going to leave you and never speak to you again"
Abusive Husband: "You can leave, but even if you do ... I'm going to love you forever!"

I.E. basically 'on paper', the words 'sound nice', but in reality, the actual conveyed meaning is 'aggressive'.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 01:51 PM

7. Passive aggressive. See Melania.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2018, 12:24 AM

10. Gaslighting is like asserting what someone experienced didn't happen

Gaslighting is a malicious and hidden form of mental and emotional abuse, designed to plant seeds of self-doubt and alter your perception of reality. Like all abuse, it's based on the need for power, control, or concealment. Some people occasionally lie or use denial to avoid taking responsibility. They may forget or remember conversations and events differently than you do, or they may have no recollection — say, due to a blackout if they were drinking. These situations are sometimes called gaslighting, but the term actually refers to a deliberate pattern of manipulation calculated to make the victim trust the perpetrator while doubting his or her own perceptions or sanity, similar to brainwashing. (See “How to Spot Manipulation.”)

The term derives from the play of the same title, and later, the film with Ingrid Bergman and Charles Boyer in which Bergman plays a sensitive, trusting wife struggling to preserve her identity in an abusive marriage to Boyer, who tries to convince her that she’s ill in order to keep her from learning the truth.

Gaslighting Behavior

As in the movie, the perpetrator often acts concerned and kind to dispel suspicions. Someone capable of persistent lying and manipulation is also quite capable of being charming and seductive. Often the relationship begins that way. When the gaslighting starts, you might even feel guilty for doubting a person you’ve come to trust. To further play with your mind, an abuser might offer evidence to show that you’re wrong or question your memory or senses. More justification and explanation, including expressions of love and flattery, are concocted to confuse you and reason away any discrepancies in the liar’s story. You get temporary reassurance, but you increasingly doubt your own senses, ignore your gut, and become more confused.

The person gaslighting you might act hurt and indignant or play the victim when challenged or questioned. Covert manipulation can easily turn into overt abuse, with accusations that you’re distrustful, ungrateful, unkind, overly sensitive, dishonest, stupid, insecure, crazy, or abusive. Abuse might escalate to anger and intimidation with punishment, threats, or bullying if you don’t accept the false version of reality.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201801/how-know-if-youre-victim-gaslighting%3famp

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's belief.[1][2]

Instances may range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. The term owes its origin to the 1938 Patrick Hamilton play Gaslight and its 1940 and 1944 film adaptations. The term has been used in clinical and research literature,[3][4] as well as in political commentary.[5][6]

The term originates in the systematic psychological manipulation of a victim by her husband in the 1938 stage play Gaslight, known as Angel Street in the United States, and the film adaptations released in 1940 and 1944.[7] In the story, a husband attempts to convince his wife and others that she is insane by manipulating small elements of their environment and insisting that she is mistaken, remembering things incorrectly, or delusional when she points out these changes. The original title stems from the dimming of the gas lights in the house that happened when the husband was using the gas lights in the flat above while searching for the jewels belonging to a woman whom he had murdered. The wife correctly notices the dimming lights and discusses it with her husband, but he insists that she merely imagined a change in the level of illumination.[citation needed]

The term "gaslighting" has been used colloquially since the 1960s[8] to describe efforts to manipulate someone's perception of reality. In a 1980 book on child sexual abuse, Florence Rush summarized George Cukor's Gaslight (1944) based on the play and wrote, "even today the word [gaslighting] is used to describe an attempt to destroy another's perception of reality."[9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2018, 08:43 PM

11. k and r..good examples, and good definitions..

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