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Fri Apr 16, 2021, 08:16 PM

Why I don't go to public shooting ranges.

Hi, My name is Andy and I own guns.

I consider myself pretty well versed in guns and their use. I'm qualified (US Army) on the M14 and M16 combat rifles, the 1911 Pistol, the M60 machine gun and the M2 tear gas dispenser. Was on the Commanding General's rifle team in '69. I have a few rounds down range under my belt.

I don't go to commercial gun ranges because civilian gun owners scare shit out of me.

This is a picture of an indoor range for 'responsible gun owners'.


Notice all those pock marks in the ceiling? Those are bullet marks. All the way from the far end to the nearest backstop right in front of the counter where you would stand while shooting. There are similar marks on both walls but they're harder to see against the cinder block walls. There are 9 shooting lanes at this particular range meaning that there are as many as 9 people firing pistols at the same time. Shooting holes in the ceiling right in front of the counter where I would stand.

Yeah, these are the people who at least TRY to become proficient in handling a gun.

Guns don't scare me. People who carry guns in public scare me.

36 replies, 8067 views

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why I don't go to public shooting ranges. (Original post)
AndyS Apr 16 OP
CanonRay Apr 16 #1
littlemissmartypants Apr 17 #11
CloudWatcher Apr 16 #2
AnrothElf Apr 16 #3
multigraincracker Apr 16 #4
C Moon Apr 16 #5
AndyS Apr 18 #29
C Moon Apr 18 #30
BobTheSubgenius Apr 16 #6
Jetheels Apr 16 #7
Evolve Dammit Apr 16 #9
littlemissmartypants Apr 17 #12
LT Barclay Apr 18 #24
Jetheels Apr 18 #25
RainCaster Apr 16 #8
Grins Apr 16 #10
Bucky Apr 18 #26
YMB Apr 17 #13
MichaelSoE Apr 17 #14
hunter Apr 17 #18
mac2766 Apr 17 #15
AndyS Apr 17 #16
azureblue Apr 17 #19
hunter Apr 17 #17
azureblue Apr 17 #20
Larissa Apr 17 #21
TexasBushwhacker Apr 17 #22
Pas-de-Calais Apr 17 #23
AndyS Apr 18 #28
Warpy Apr 18 #27
pazzyanne Apr 19 #31
Smackdown2019 Apr 22 #32
New Haven Apr 22 #33
rateyes Apr 23 #34
AndyS Apr 23 #35
Tbear Apr 25 #36

Response to AndyS (Original post)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 08:40 PM

1. I was on a law enforcement range

and a guy next to me "dry fired" with a live round in the chamber.

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 01:12 AM

11. Dry firing, Wikipedia

Dry firing is the practice of simulating the discharge of a firearm without any live ammunition, or practicing with an inert laser/infrared training platform and may also include the use of a target/feedback system. The terms also commonly refers to simply "firing" a gun that has no ammunition in it.
en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Dry_fire
Dry fire - Wikipedia

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 09:38 PM

2. Skeet shooting ...

I remember being about 14, going to a public skeet shooting range, and some yahoo behind me accidentally shoots his gun into the ground. We were all sprayed by the dustup. No harm, no foul, and I was too young to have been appropriately worried. Now I wonder what my father was thinking taking us back there after that.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 09:44 PM

3. Think how the rest of us feel who don't shoot?

I know enough gun owners to know that many have fears that led them to guns. Self-defense.

The rest of us live in the same world, with all the same threats, but sans guns. Should we arm ourselves?

Or should we keep trying to disarm America?

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 09:59 PM

4. Fire arms are dangerous, even in

the hands of “experts”.
A few years back I was talking guy and noticed he had a cast on his left hand. I ask what happen. He said he shot himself while gleaning his hand gun. He also told me he has been a NRA safety instructor for over 36 years.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 10:01 PM

5. Couldn't the bullets hit those steel beams and ricochet?

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Response to C Moon (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 18, 2021, 08:55 PM

29. Those are not really a backstop or a steel beam. They are noise baffles.

Bullets do bounce and ricochet but the design of the range is to send all those 'down range' and not back to the shooting stalls. Note the slanted back stop at the end of the range. Anything that hit the baffles, floor or walls should also deflect down range.

Still, shooting a hole in the ceiling a few feet in front of you tends to unnerve ya' a bit . . .

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Response to AndyS (Reply #29)

Sun Apr 18, 2021, 09:43 PM

30. Thank you.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 10:12 PM

6. I thought those marks from from bullets, but then I thought: "Nah...can't be."

How can people be firing "downrange" at an upward angle of...what? 30 degrees? Did they fall down as they pulled the trigger?

Good God. I don't blame you a bit for being scared of these incompetents.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 10:14 PM

7. I wish I could move to a gun free country.

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Response to Jetheels (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 10:44 PM

9. We are at that point. But that's what the insurrectionist gunhumpers want, so I'll stick!

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Response to Jetheels (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 01:15 AM

12. Me, too. nt

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Response to Jetheels (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 18, 2021, 01:59 AM

24. My wife and I have been wracking our brain trying to come up with a good place to move, but nothing

comes up that we feel really good about.
What options have you considered? Canada is too cold for us and they don't have a great environmental record either (same with France and the UK). Mexico is a mess an good ole U.S. of A. does everything it can to destabilize Central and South America. All the European powers mess with Africa. New Zealand doesn't want anyone, and Australia is literally crawling with dangerous critters. We don't speak any foreign languages and that leaves a bunch of Islands. I tried to promote Ireland and Italy and I couldn't convince her.
Antartica might be a good option in 5 years or so.

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Response to LT Barclay (Reply #24)

Sun Apr 18, 2021, 08:17 AM

25. No foreign languages either. I guess Ireland or France. However, unless you have tons of money,

No one wants foreigners really. Unless your like Peter Thiele of PayPal who recently got citizenship in New Zealand, where other billionaires are buying. There’s income minimums even in 3rd world countries. And then there’s health insurance issues. I know Mexico is popular with expats but they have a lot of crime and I’m not going anywhere without safe to drink tap water. I guess Central and South America are never going to stabilize unless USA legalizes drugs. All of them. Like Portugal did.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 10:15 PM

8. My GSD is a better trainer than any you mentioned

Sorry, but I'm another one of those who avoid the public ranges. Those flag wavers are just a totally whacko bunch of twats. For my own safety, I stay away.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Fri Apr 16, 2021, 11:19 PM

10. Meanest bastards I encountered in the Army...

Firing range officers and NCO’s!! And the smaller the weapon the meaner they were. “Mean” in the sense of prevent accidents and stupid.

In my memory I can still see the range officer, a Major, on the .45 pistol range telling us this was the most dangerous range in the division. The slightest move of a wrist, a finger...!

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Response to Grins (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 18, 2021, 07:05 PM

26. I can imagine a job like firing range instructor turning you into a control freak

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 01:23 AM

13. My local ranges

tend to be similar. Though you have to realize ranges like that also tend to see a LOT of shooters and training that tend to add up all those little holes. You do get yahoos who just blast around occasionally, but you also get people who are shooting their first guns and chances are good theyre not going to be accurate right out of the gate. With that you get a lot of people who tend to miss sighting in their firearms. Take a couple shots, readjust, take a couple shots, readjust ect.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 07:00 AM

14. What disturbs me the most are the targets.

One's thought process is moved from hitting a circular target ... the atypical practice target with a 'bulls eye' ,,, to where to shoot to inflict the most damage to a human.

Maybe not consciously but on some level the object of practice is be able to kill another person.

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Response to MichaelSoE (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:34 AM

18. I don't let anyone I'd care to shoot live in my head.

Life's a lot more pleasant that way.

An any case, guns are pretty useless for "self defense."

In my personal experience, once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.


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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 09:05 AM

15. Mandatory training, background checks, or no guns.

My position on gun ownership:

As I live in a democracy, I have to support the current law as it stands in our democracy, But... If a referendum were presented on a ballot to make assault rifle ownership illegal again, I would vote to make them illegal. High capacity magazines, bump stocks, etc... as well.

When I was young, my first experiences with guns was the training that I received by a deputy sheriff who happened to be a friends father. We were 12 or 13 at the time. My friends father had given him a single shot bolt action .22 rifle. He insisted that we first learn how to properly and safely store the rifle and ammunition. We were instructed how to safely dismantle, clean, and re-assemble the rifle. We went through safety training weeks before we were ever able to shoot the rifle. We understood how dangerous the weapon was because we were trained to understand how dangerous it was. We were taught to respect, and to be responsible. I carry that information with me today.

After that training, I also went through the Indiana Hunters Association safety training program.

I once owned 3 weapons. 2 shotguns and a .22 caliber rifle. I sold my guns years ago and have only a 32" Louisville Slugger for protection in my home. I'm not an avid hunter today. I do my hunting exclusively in the meat section of the Piggly Wiggly.

I agree that as Americans, we should be allowed to own weapons. Not assault rifles or weapons that can kill many people in an instance. Not weapons that were created for the sole purpose of killing people. I strongly believe that if we, as Americans, continue to be allowed to own guns, we should be properly trained on how to be safe and responsible gun owners. We should also be willing to a strong background check before we're allowed to own a gun. We should also be willing to suffer the consequences if we fail to make our weapons safe - meaning that a weapon that is in our possession is used in such a way that is unsafe. Training should be mandatory, recurrent, and frequent.

The OP sounds as if he is a very well trained gun owner. Way beyond most. I feel very comfortable with his gun ownership. I'd feel very safe with him as a neighbor, co-worker, or an acquaintance who owns a gun. I can't say the same for pickup truck drivers with don't tread on me, come for my guns and I'll shoot you type of bumper stickers.

We've allowed our country to become a very unsafe place by allowing people to own weapons that they should never have been allowed to own. We've allowed our country to become a very unsafe place by allowing people to own weapons without proper safety training. We've also allowed our country to become a very unsafe place by allowing gun ownership by people who should never have been allowed to own a gun.

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Response to mac2766 (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 09:16 AM

16. Thank you.

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Response to mac2766 (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 01:16 PM

19. which is why

I have always believed that a person should not own a gun until they have passed a practical test for the purpose in which the firearm will be used. And that includes both static and motion target testing. For instance, if you are buying a pistol for home defense, then you must know how to safely store it and maintain it, plus you must past a range test that simulates home defense situations, including identifying your target before you shoot. If you plan to hunt, then you have to demonstrate field safety as well as target ID and be able to pass an in motion target test.

And if you don't pass the target test, you don't get your firearm.

This is the ignored part of gun control - besides preventing felons from getting one, the surest path to gun control is a proficiency test.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:26 AM

17. Do lead poisoning, smokeless powder fumes, and inner ear damage...

... make it difficult to shoot straight?

Are guns addictive in some destructive way? Are most of the fools who suffer gun fetishes exactly the sort of people who shouldn't have guns?

I'll speculate that many of those bullet marks in the ceiling are from idiots practicing their Quick Draw McGraw moves.

Yeah, against range rules, but FREEDOM!

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Response to hunter (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 01:20 PM

20. I love target shooting

Whether skeet or range. The concentration it takes to get high target scores is incredible. And I'm lousy at skeet shooting. But I don't have a gun fetish like a lot of gun owners do using them as some sort of manhood enhancer. The ones like that I have met watch way too much TV and action movies.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 01:44 PM

21. The lead is everywhere

Last edited Sat Apr 17, 2021, 02:22 PM - Edit history (1)

. . . except on the target. And some of these folks are the same ones that open carry long guns to statehouses because they're pissed off about wearing masks/Covid-19 curfews. Their guns represent some sort of power for them yet they are absent of the skills to handle them safely.

The mess of bullet holes that missed the target reminded me of the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre that took place in 1984. The former Green Beret police sniper had only one chance -- from 35 yards -- to take the perpetrator out who had killed 21 people and was moving around inside of the McDonald's. A miss could have been catastrophic for the remaining survivors trapped with the perp.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/07/20/Police-marksman-just-did-his-job/2093459144000/

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 04:15 PM

22. I have a client that owns a gun range

Actually, his uncle owned it and someone accidentally shot a hole in the wall that traveled to the parking lot, hitting a bystander in the head, killing him.

The victims family sued the uncle and he signed the range over to his nephew, my client. So they sued the nephew, and he's spent close to $100K in legal bills.

I'm not comfortable with guns and wouldn't own one, but I wouldn't get anywhere close to a gun range either.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Sat Apr 17, 2021, 08:36 PM

23. Best statement I've heard in quite awhile. Thank you

For your service
Your expert opinion

Thank you

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Response to Pas-de-Calais (Reply #23)

Sun Apr 18, 2021, 08:45 PM

28. You're welcome for the TY but it is important to me that

anyone who knows of my time in uniform ('69-'71) also knows that I did not serve in Vietnam. I had no service overseas, spent my two years in Ft Lee,VA. I did see 'action' in D.C. during both the Vietnam Moratorium ('69) and the MayDay protest ('70). Wasn't on the side I'd have preferred but I swore an Oath.

Google search both and look at images. I'm the guy wearing green.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Sun Apr 18, 2021, 08:19 PM

27. Thank you for that dose of reality.

My only enjoyable gun use was with an air pistol, swapping shots with my drunk dad at his empties in a lake. I didn't like shooting at a range when I had the opportunity, guns were noisy, smelly things. I was much better at archery, anyway.

Civilians who haven't had adequate training scare the crap out of me, too, but not for their lousy aim, for their overconfidence. Guns seem to make powerless people feel powerful and that in itself is dangerous as hell. It's also why so many of them are going to freak the hell out if we ever get sensible gun control in this country.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Mon Apr 19, 2021, 01:59 PM

31. "Guns don't scare me. People who carry guns in public scare me."

Exactly. At a recent medical appointment, a man walked into the waiting room with an open carry gun. My heart jumped into my throat and my heart started beating rapidly. He checked in and turned around. He was wearing a law enforcement badge on his plain clothes jacket. Even with that knowledge it took my heart several minutes to return to normal.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Thu Apr 22, 2021, 12:36 AM

32. Guns and the average IQ

When I was 8, my friend across the street had a BB Gun and what does 8 year olds do... shoot BBs. Well, he shoot his BB gun as I was standing next to him and one ricochet off a tin shed and grazed my right arm. Nothing serious, but it was a lesson learn on how dangerous guns are, even BB Guns. The world dont need guns, mankind IQ is far more deadly than a bullet. History shows that bow and arrows were dangerous prior to the gun, guns are now more powerful and faster to hit a target. Yes guns can level the playing field if one faces a nut job, but there are other ways to protect. I watched a video of a victim of a gun massacre in texas in 1991, who proclaimed before Congress if she had her gun, her parents would of made it. Why a gun was my thought? Sorry, but if I was in that restaurant, pepper to the eyes would of been my choice. One, it blinds the person, two can not be reused onto you. Three, if you miss with a gun and hit others, you are not helping the problem.
If one goes to the public shooting range, money was spent on shells for what? Ego or power trip? Again, the IQ plays a big part of the wannabe protector with military style gear. All it does label you as a wacko!

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Thu Apr 22, 2021, 10:13 PM

33. check out "squib load" on youtube

There are a lot of reloaders providing inferior rounds to gun owners. There is a lot of ignorance amongst gun owners and I think it is tied to their fear. So they try to save money by buying cheap ammunition, so they can fire more rounds. Those AK-47's explode in their face when they have a squib load.

A squib load, also known as a squib round, pop and no kick, or just a squib, is a firearm malfunction in which a fired projectile does not have enough force behind it to exit the barrel, and thus becomes stuck. This type of malfunction can be extremely dangerous, as failing to notice that the projectile has become stuck in the barrel may result in another round being fired directly into the obstructed barrel, resulting in a catastrophic failure of the weapon's structural integrity.

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Fri Apr 23, 2021, 07:29 AM

34. I had a friend in college who, one day, was leaning

on the barrel end of his shotgun, gun butt on the ground, his hands and chin over the end of the barrel. When he stood up, the shotgun went off and blew off three of his fingers. I asked him, “what the hell were you thinking?” His response? “”I thought the safety was on!” My reply back? “Dumbass!”

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Response to rateyes (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 23, 2021, 08:06 AM

35. Safety? Hell, guns ain't safe . . .

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Response to AndyS (Original post)

Sun Apr 25, 2021, 04:09 PM

36. I do not like indoor ranges because

some joker shooting a rifle with a muzzle brake will end up in the next lane and the concussion and blast is very unpleasant. Happened twice. Done.

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