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(50,654 posts)
Mon Jul 15, 2013, 11:51 AM Jul 2013

Deaths Nearly Triple Since “Stand Your Ground” Enacted

A timely reminder of a story that surfaced shortly after the Martin murder.

MIAMI (CBSMiami.com) – As some state lawmakers are calling for a re-thinking of Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which allows people to defend themselves from danger without the need to first try to get away, an analysis of state data shows deaths due to self defense are up over 200 percent since the law took effect.

The shooting death of Trayvon Martin by an armed, self-appointed Central Florida crime watch volunteer who claimed he shot in self defense has sparked a national debate about Florida’s law, technically known as the Castle doctrine.


Until 2005, it was generally considered self defense if someone tried to get into your home or invade your property, so long as you could show deadly force was the last resort. In 2005, the “Stand your Ground” law removed the need to retreat before using force, even in public.

That’s the justification George Zimmerman used when he shot and killed Miami Gardens teen Treyvon Martin, who was returning to his father’s fiance’s house from a convenience store visit when Zimmerman spotted him and deemed him suspicious. Before the police he called arrived, he claims Martin attacked him and he shot in fear for his life.

Police accepted his story, and let him go, sparking national outrage. Zimmerman remains free. .......

More at: MIAMI CBS

(Posted in GD for discussion, as well.)
Deaths Nearly Triple Since “Stand Your Ground” Enacted (Original Post) mzmolly Jul 2013 OP
police justifiables also up ~200% jimmy the one Jul 2013 #1
Politifact addressed a 250% increase. The article says 200%. In fact, Politifact notes the correct mzmolly Jul 2013 #2
gunfun in the sun jimmy the one Jul 2013 #3

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
1. police justifiables also up ~200%
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:17 AM
Jul 2013

Politifact 'graded' this report & gave the figures a true, just that the increase couldn't be directly related to syg laws. The striking thing I found is that justifiable homicides done by police also appeared to have about tripled, from avg of 20/yr to about (post syg) 50/yr. All this while violent crime rates in florida dropped ~20% from 2000/04 to 2006/10 -- (murder rates didn't change tho). Personally I think syg laws are contributory to the increases, but of course the increases can't be unequivocally attributed to syg, so PF has to say halftrue on one judgement (chris smith link).

politifact, edited: 2000-04 - the 5 full years before "stand your ground" took effect - Florida reported average of 12 justifiable homicides a year by civilians. From 2006-10 - first 5 full years after "syg" became law - law enforcement reported average 36 justifiable homicides by civilians.. the number of justifiable homicides by civilians is now 3 times higher than it was in the years before 2005.. an increase of 200% http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/jul/15/fact-checks-about-death-trayvon-martin/ .. the numbers largerly support the idea that self-defense deaths have increased since 2005. As for whether "syg" is the reason self-defense deaths are up, experts either disagree or say it’s difficult to determine without examining the specifics of each case. We rate this statement Half True.

Then, SURPRISE!, a florida repub Baxley who helped author syg, uses the decline in florida's violcrime rate to praise syg laws! Baxley added that he thought the law "has saved thousands of people's lives."Pfffft... gun guru in training.

Politifact: Baxley said "We’ve had a dramatic drop in violent crime since this law has been in effect." His comments implied the law itself reduced violent crime rates. There has been a drop, but rates were declining before the law went into effect. We found no proof that that the "syg" law caused the drop; We rate his claim Half True.


(50,654 posts)
2. Politifact addressed a 250% increase. The article says 200%. In fact, Politifact notes the correct
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 11:45 AM
Jul 2013

increase in its analysis:

From 2000-04 -- the five full years before "stand your ground" took effect -- law enforcement agencies in Florida reported an average of 12 justifiable homicides a year committed by civilians. From 2060-10 -- the first five full years after "stand your ground" became law -- law enforcement agencies reported an average of 36 justifiable homicides committed by civilians. Average to average, the number of justifiable homicides by civilians is now three times higher than it was in the years before 2005. That’s an increase of 200 percent. (We excluded 2005 from this calculation because the law went into effect part way through the year.)

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
3. gunfun in the sun
Thu Jul 18, 2013, 06:50 AM
Jul 2013

Here's some more 'unfriendly' info, molly, on florida's gun situation recently: Murders by firearms have increased dramatically since 2000, when there were 499 gun murders, accdg Fla Dept Law Enf.. Gun murders since climbed 38% with 691 murders with guns in 2011.. {only} partial numbers available 2012, Jan to June 479 murders in Florida — 358 with a gun.. an 8% increase compared to same period 2011. http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/nationworld/report/042313_fl_gun_violence/as-firearm-ownership-rises-florida-gun-murders-increase/ .. Guns are now the weapons of choice in 75% of all Fla homicides. That’s up from 56% 2000... The rise in gun homicides in Fla comes when overall murder rate has {SLIGHTLY} declined in Florida, & violent crime dropped statewide..

Y .. Popu .. totalcr.. violcr.. propcr.. murder
2000 16.0m- 5,694.7-- 812.0- 4,882.7-- 5.6
2001 16,3m- 5,577.5- 798.3- 4,779.2- 5.3
2002 16,7-- 5,427.6- 771.2- 4,656.4- 5.5
2003 17.0-- 5,188.4- 731.1- 4,457.3- 5.4
2004 17,3-- 4,894.3- 711.8- 4,182.5- 5.4
2005 17,7-- 4,721.7-- 708.9- 4,012.8- 5.0 SYG in Fla
2006 18,0-- 4,694.7-- 712.0- 3,968.1- 6.2
2007 18,2-- 4,811.9-- 722.6- 4,089.3- 6.6
2008 18,4-- 4,804.4-- 685.3- 4,119.1- 6.3
2009 18,5-- 4,453.3-- 612.5- 3,840.8- 5.5
2010 18,8--- 4,092.7-- 541.3-- 3,551.4 --5.2
2011 19,0--- 4,037.3-- 515.3-- 3,522.0-- 5.2


Violent crime has declined significantly since sygfla, propertycrime slightly, but murders have shown no improvement, & gunmurders as outlined above, have dramatically increased. Florida could subscribe to former DC mayor marion barry saying 'Take away the murders & DC-(Fla) is a pretty safe place'.

The {national} household gun ownership rate has fallen from an average of 50% in the 1970s to 49% in the 1980s, 43% in the 1990s and 35% in the 2000s, http://www3.norc.org/GSS+Website/Download/SPSS+Format/

Gee, imagine that, half american hhlds had guns during 70's & 80's, then gunownership started to decline in the mid 90's along with declining gun-homes, & crime kept declining right along with declining gun-homes throughout the oughts (00's). Imagine that, gunnuts have it backazzwards, Less Guns in Homes, Less Crime.
National gunstock increased of course, but were personally owned less, percentage-wise.

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