Time to repeal the ALEC/NRA Stand Your Ground Laws

[rdharma]

Jury Instructions Included Stand Your Ground

In 2012, the killing of Trayvon Martin acutely focused attention on Stand Your Ground laws, which give criminal and civil immunity to a person who claims they use deadly force because they allege a reasonable fear of harm. Because of the law, Sanford Police initially declined to arrest Zimmerman because they apparently agreed it was "reasonable" to feel threatened after stalking an unarmed African-American teenager returning from a trip to buy Skittles and iced tea.

Some have claimed that Stand Your Ground played no role after Zimmerman was eventually arrested -- he and his lawyers relied on Florida's lenient self defense statutes -- but the jury instructions invoked the Stand Your Ground protections by stating he had no "duty to retreat" from the situation:


"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

This language is nearly identical to that in the Florida Stand Your Ground law and the ALEC "model" legislation. We cannot know if the outcome would have been different had the six jurors been instructed differently -- but we do know that Stand Your Ground played a role in the case, even after Zimmerman's arrest.

http://prwatch.org/news/2013/07/12180/time-repeal-alecnra-stand-your-ground-laws

[billh58]

1. Of course SYG

and CCW played a huge part in Trayvon's murder. Both of those laws allowed a wimpy coward to act brave, and exercise his NRA-defined Second Amendment "rights."

This travesty of justice, and other recent events, are sinking in to the American conscience and making average people take a hard look at the outrageous number of deaths and injuries caused by NRA-sponsored gun laws in this country. Vigilantes like Zimmerman hide behind the Second Amendment with the blessings (and encouragement) of the NRA, and a segment of our very own right-wing DU Gungeoneers.

[defacto7]

2. K&R

[Hoyt]

3. I notice gungeon posters say SYG did not apply. Guess they didn't listen to juror B37 last night.

They love such laws, lets them be a bully, and gives them an out if they screw up (and can't get away).

[Paladin]

6. The Gun Enthusiasts are trying to minimize the effects of SYG laws....

...just like they've attempted to make "assault rifles" go away, via hyper-precise definitions. It's increasingly obvious that SYG laws are looked upon as a viable means of sick wish fulfillment by way too many gun activists. A very unhealthy situation, particularly if you're a young urban male......

[Hoyt]

7. Exactly. Like the "hyper-precise definitions" regarding Assault style weapons. Exactly what

they do.

Then, they come along and claim that someone who doesn't get the nomenclature perfect is not capable of expressing an opinion on guns in our society. I always end up saying, let's cut the BS and just ban all semi-auto rifles, especially those with detachable magazines. Of course, handguns are the really big problem in our society.

[Paladin]

8. I love it when they rely on the WWII Nazi definition of "assault rifle."

And no, I'm not making that up. I've seen the Nazi definition reference at least a half-dozen times over the years, down in the Gungeon. That speaks volumes, doesn't it?

[bobclark86]

4. Well, it's either change all these laws now...

or encourage the African-American community to arm itself against crazy-ass crackers. Just like after the Civil War, all those southern states will bend over backwards to enact bans on concealed carry, Saturday Night Specials and SYG when they find out blacks can buy guns, too (that's why most southern state constitutions — dating from after the war — say concealed carry bans don't violate the "right to bear arms" clauses)!

But then again, do we really need even more people buying guns to defend themselves from the guys buying guns? Good news for the NRA and Yorktown (a casket company), bad news for everyone else.

[Walk away]

10. Isn't it ironic and sad that the NRA was once pro-stricter gun laws in the 1970s...

when the Black Panthers organized and advocated individual gun ownership?

I have never in my life felt the desire to own or use a gun but if I were a Black parent this week it would take moral strength not to turn to a gun for protection.

[jimmy the one]

5. SSYG laws

jury instructions invoked the Stand Your Ground protections by stating he had no "duty to retreat" from the situation..

Avoiding instructions about SYG.2 - Stalking Your Ground laws.

Zimmerman's corollary: the Stalking then Standing Your Ground Law. You have no duty to retreat if you are stalking someone, as long as you stand your ground as soon as caught.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. IMHO...

...Florida (and probably a number of states) has a legislative hole. It was the jury's opinion that Zimmerman's actions did not fit the characteristics of aggravated manslaughter. I'm not a fan his actions and believe what he did was objectively wrong.

Many folks will cite the following facts:
- It's not illegal to watch what someone does.
- It's not illegal to follow or pursue someone.
- It's not illegal to question a stranger about their motives or suspicious activities.

Isn't the Martin/Zimmerman epic fail case evidence that at least some of these thing ought to be illegal?

From what I've read Zimmerman claims Martin surprised him and knocked him down. If that is actually correct, had Martin also been carrying, Zimmerman could be the one who's now dead. The scenario is it's dark, some suspicious clown is following you. You don't know him; he doesn't identify himself as a LEO and he's not in uniform. He gets closer and you duck for cover. He continues to approach maybe says something confrontational and you draw and aim. At this point things can get really serious.

Unjustified pursuits such as Zimmerman engaged in are dangerous and, IMHO, just plain wrong.

[jimmy the one]

11. nra mentality

A DU poster (GJ) who posts regular on rkba bd, started a thread there on people invoking florida's syg law; some of the syg cases are bizarre.
Of the 133 cases listed, 40 convictions, 73 acquittals (not nec under syg statute), & 20 pending. 65% acquitted of those with verdicts, tho syg may not have ultimately applied.
This one not so bizarre, but read the comment he made supporting his actions:

What happened: Willard McCullen {white male, 22} shot his cousin after a dispute over $60.. McCullen shot him in the back and then again in the chest when he turned around. McCullen told investigators he was an NRA member and knew he had a right to shoot. outcome: McCullen convicted second-degree murder.. sentenced 35 years.. http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_119

Not an indictment of nra members, just what nra mentality can do to young & impressionable.

another; I think if the judge 'denies' immunity, he's rejecting syg defense. If defendant is granted immunity (under syg), syg worked for him: Outside Brittany Bay Apartments in Naples, on Jan. 01, 2010
James Menard drove with friends to recover money they say was stolen from them earlier that day by another group. The confrontation quickly became heated, and one of the men shoved Menard, who had brought his gun with him. Menard, who had a concealed weapons permit, said he fired because he feared being attacked and saw one of the opposing group members carrying what turned out to be a pellet gun shaped like an Uzi. Menard, 24, fired 5 times into the crowd, wounding two killing (one), 17.
The outcome: A judge rejected "stand your ground" defense and Menard was sentenced to life after a jury convicted him of murder and related charges. http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases