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flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 01:12 PM Jan 2015

There seems to be some discussion of whether or not the NRA has talking points.

That's just stupid. All groups pushing policy have talking points. The Gun Safety Movement has talking points; Not one more and Common sense regulation among them.

So here a some of the NRA and Gun Lobby talking points:

1. “The 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms, thus gun control measures are unconstitutional.”
This is obviously untrue. There are restrictions on sawed off shotguns, short barreled rifles and full auto guns. Even Scalia said that each type of firearm could be looked at as being protected by the 2nd.

2. “Guns are a right in our country so that we can rise up against a tyrannical government.”
I'm sure the founding fathers were all in on having a bunch of yokels destroy what they just created. Then there's that pesky Article 3 section 3 that says in part,"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, . . ."

3. “Guns don’t kill people; people kill people” or “ Limiting guns will only lead to violent people simply using other methods of killing large numbers of people”
While it may be possible to find another way to kill if motivated enough, the introduction of guns to a situation sure makes it easier. If not why would anyone want a gun for self protection? On the same day as Sandy Hook a man in Japan took a sword into an elementary school and injured 20 children. Injured, not killed. All 20 survived.

4. “Violence isn’t due to guns; it is due to culture and violence in the media/entertainment industry.”
If that were true violent crime would be through the roof in places like Japan where video games are a way of life and American movies are extremely popular.

5. “Instead of attacking guns, what we really need is to register the mentally ill”
Less than 5% of mass shootings are due to mentally ill shooters. Almost all of the other 95% are domestic in nature.

6. “If everybody were armed, we would all be safer”
So why is the homicide rate so much lower in countries with highly restrictive laws? Try living is Somalia for a few months and then tell me how nice heavily armed populations are.

7. “Gun laws don’t work because they make it so only criminals have guns.”
Yeah, and traffic laws don't keep people from speeding or not yielding right of way but the commute to work would sure be interesting if we didn't have any. Besides I have it on good authority that gun owners are law abiding.

8. “Mass shootings only happen in places where there are no guns allowed.”
Actually no. Only a small percentage of mass shootings are in gun free zones. Most are in domestic settings which have no restrictions on guns at all.

9. “The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun.”
Tell that to the two good guys with guns who were killed in their patrol car in NYC. Or the armed security guard at Columbine. Or any of a host of other situations. The best way to stop a bad guy is to keep him from getting a gun in the first place.

10. “There are already over 20,000 gun regulations on the books and they don’t work.”
At best there are a little less than 1,000 Federal and State statutes regarding guns. Many of those are designed to be un-workable. For instance there are almost no prosecutions of failed background checks because the evidence of failure must be destroyed within 24 hours. With the ATF and FBI being underfunded and overworked it would take a Jeffery Dalhmer to trigger an investigation in that short a time period.

11. “Cities with gun control laws on the books sometimes have high levels of gun violence and this shows that gun control doesn’t work.”
Patently untrue. Look at NYC's gun crime rate. Chicago had a problem but 70% of the guns recovered at crime scenes came from a single gun store just outside the city limits and because of the screwed up mishmash of gun laws we operate under the Feds couldn't close it down.

12. “Countries like Israel and Switzerland have high levels of gun ownership, but low levels of gun crime, so guns aren’t the real problem”
If anyone is willing to go through the training, scrutiny and regulation it takes to have a gun in either of those countries I'm good with them having a gun. However, here anyone can buy a gun from a private seller with NO RESTRICTIONS AT ALL.

13. “Since car accidents kill more people every year then guns, why don’t we ban cars?”
In 11 states guns kill more than cars do and if the trend continues by 2020 that will be true of all 50 states.

14. “Gun control was imposed by dictators like Hitler and Stalin, thus it is, by definition, bad and something that puts us on a path towards becoming an autocratic regime.”
Hitler didn't impose stricter gun control, period. Not sure of Stalin. However the Jews in Germany had as many guns as the rest of the country, just not as many as the SS.

15. “Guns are part of our national heritage and restricting them is an attack on our cultural identity.”
So was slavery. Tough shit.

16. “Guns act as an equalizer and are necessary for women to defend themselves”
More women are killed with guns every year by a domestic partner in the house with the gun kept in the house than all casualties of Iraq and Afghanistan. Gun control is a violence against women issue.

17. “Background checks do not work because criminals won’t consent to them”
Then why did the NRA push for NICS? Why do so many thousands of prohibited persons get turned away at gun stores?

18. “Limits on magazine size do nothing to prevent gun homicides because shooters will just bring more magazines”
Eleven children ran past Alan Lanza as he changed magazines. Loghner was captured by an elderly grandmother while he was changing magazines. This argument is just too ridiculous to even consider.

19. “It is hypocritical for politicians with children who go to schools that have armed guards to push for gun-free schools”
Not really. High profile occupations like politics, acting and others are magnets for nut jobs unlike the average work-a-day family.

20. “There are already so many guns out there that any regulations on gun sales are ineffective”
Over time the number of guns will diminish as they are confiscated from crime scenes or wear out or get lost. If there were a national registry put in place today all guns would fall into one of three categories; confiscated from a crime scene, registered as proscribed by law or locked in some closet where they aren't a threat. Within 50 years (as long as we've had Cuba isolated) even those closet guns will likely be registered or turned in when heirs find them in that closet.

21. “We cannot rely on the police to protect us because they are underfunded and often unable to get to a crime on time”
Yeah, I know, when seconds count the police are only minutes away. This is a call to vigilantism. Better to reduce the number of bad guys with guns by keeping guns away from them than arm the entire citizenry. Still, I have no problem with a gun to protect home and family as long as it stays at home and is secured in a safe.


If you don't believe the gun lobby has talking points, you may be a gun nut.

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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There seems to be some discussion of whether or not the NRA has talking points. (Original Post) flamin lib Jan 2015 OP
Great list billh58 Jan 2015 #1
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #2
Signed up just today billh58 Jan 2015 #4
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #5
Enjoy your stay... billh58 Jan 2015 #6
Edited to add sarcasm? Heh, interesting take on a "penny" saying uppityperson Jan 2015 #7
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #8
Do you have high winds there too or just the cold? Hope you are staying warm. uppityperson Jan 2015 #9
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #10
Welcome to DU! Scuba Jan 2015 #11
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #12
Sometimes you just know... billh58 Jan 2015 #13
Coincidentally, I was on a jury for a post of theirs where they were trolling the Religion Group Electric Monk Jan 2015 #14
I predict that eventually billh58 Jan 2015 #15
Theres one talking point for which there is no answer, unfortunately: Aristus Jan 2015 #3

Response to flamin lib (Original post)

Response to billh58 (Reply #4)

Response to uppityperson (Reply #7)

Response to uppityperson (Reply #9)

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
11. Welcome to DU!
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 03:45 PM
Jan 2015

Sarcasm thingy noted. As a new poster you may not be aware that this is a "protected group", ergo the less-than-welcoming reply you received. As DU suffers the intrusion of trolls, particularly gun trolls, on a frequent basis, defenses are up.

Sarcasm thingy noted. Welcome pennyback.

Response to Scuba (Reply #11)

billh58

(6,635 posts)
13. Sometimes you just know...
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 07:11 PM
Jan 2015

I believe that this particular troll has been on DU under numerous screen names, and will undoubtedly be back.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
14. Coincidentally, I was on a jury for a post of theirs where they were trolling the Religion Group
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 08:53 PM
Jan 2015

That hide sent it to MIRT, and Voila! I don't need to block them from our Group (again, most likely) after all.

billh58

(6,635 posts)
15. I predict that eventually
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 09:28 PM
Jan 2015

one of this troll's reincarnations will remain on DU long enough to be banned from this Group. I suspect that this is one of the self-professed moles from Conservative Cave -- another bastion of Second Amendment worship.

Aristus

(66,091 posts)
3. Theres one talking point for which there is no answer, unfortunately:
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 02:37 PM
Jan 2015

"But guns help fulfill my slack-muscled, soft-bellied, wussy, suburban Rambo fantasies!"

Other than that, well put. Saving this page. (Don't know what good it will do, though. One can't reason with the unreasonable...)

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