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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Politics & Government » Populist Reform of the Democratic Party (Group) » How is Democratic Undergr...

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 07:20 AM

aspirant (3,533 posts)

How is Democratic Underground defined?

Last edited Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:03 AM - Edit history (1)

The word Democratic = the Democratic Party OR Democracy OR both. Does center-to-left viewpoints include the Democratic right?

Does the Democratic right = advocating 5 or less Democratic principles
Democratic center = 6-10 Democratic principles
Democratic LEFT = 11 or more, all the way to a pure bred pony

The word Underground implies something behind the scenes, below the surface and not on national display.

The Democratic corporatist wing is RIGHT up front about undemocratic principles and spend billions to get out their message. How is this an underground group? They aren't something boiling to the surface, the corporatists have long ago boiled over and spilled across this nation.

Was DU originally created for the often ignored Democratic voting blocs or a Democratic-leaning forum for the pro-corporatist agenda?

24 replies, 3123 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply How is Democratic Underground defined? (Original post)
 aspirant Mar 2015 OP
LineReply Good question.
 Enthusiast Mar 2015 #1
LineReply Good Questions
 Martin Eden Mar 2015 #2
LineReply Democratic Underground was created on a black day for the U.S.A.
 TexasProgresive Mar 2015 #3
LineReply The people to ask would be the creators, but I believe
 Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #4
LineReply I agree that these are good questions. Certainly the corporate wing of the party doesn't need ....
 Scuba Mar 2015 #5
LineLineReply In the ToS section "Don't Push Your Luck"
 aspirant Mar 2015 #6
LineLineLineReply By my observations, the "broad range of center-to-left viewpoints" has crept steadily right.
 Scuba Mar 2015 #7
LineLineLineLineReply Maybe by persistant alerting
 aspirant Mar 2015 #8
LineLineLineLineLineReply At first blush, I don't like that idea. The jury system should be focused more on civility than ...
 Scuba Mar 2015 #9
LineLineLineLineLineLineReply How is it censorship
 aspirant Mar 2015 #10
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply Perhaps I didn't understand what you were suggesting, but hiding posts ...
 Scuba Mar 2015 #11
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply From my experience,
 aspirant Mar 2015 #12
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply Attacks of other members should be hidden since they're not civil. Attacks on ideas are ...
 Scuba Mar 2015 #13
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply Are there any ideas
 aspirant Mar 2015 #14
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Well, a twice-elected Democratic President proposed "chained-CPI" for Social Security.
 Scuba Mar 2015 #15
LineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Except juries tend to be the most unreliable feature on DU
 Scootaloo Mar 2015 #18
LineLineLineLineNew Reply Relative markers slide
 Fairgo Mar 2015 #23
LineLineLineLineLineNew Reply +1 You should post more often!
 Scuba Mar 2015 #24
LineLineLineNew Reply Believe me I hear what you are saying. BUT, we are liberal/progressives and we
 rhett o rick Mar 2015 #21
LineLineNew Reply Well said Scuba. We have people that think that if they support LGBT rights, then bingo-bango
 rhett o rick Mar 2015 #20
LineNew Reply It's "Democratic Underground" not "New Democrats.com"
 Cosmic Kitten Mar 2015 #16
LineNew Reply My thanks to Skinner for sending me the link to DUs 1st 7 days
 TexasProgresive Mar 2015 #17
LineLineNew Reply Thanks for the link!
 aspirant Mar 2015 #22
LineNew Reply This message was self-deleted by its author
 Corruption Inc Mar 2015 #19

Response to aspirant (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:04 AM

Enthusiast (50,983 posts)

1. Good question.

Our side, the real Democratic Party, used to be front and center. Now we appear to be relegated to the fringe.

Protect union interests? Nope, not any more. Protect American jobs? Nope, we need more foreign jobs and trade deals to go with them. Peace? Fuck you, are you crazy? How would we justify outspending the rest of the world on this bloated wasteful military?

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Response to aspirant (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:07 AM

Star Member Martin Eden (11,300 posts)

2. Good Questions

Of course, your last question is intended as the answer.

I didn't join DU until 2002 so I'm not that well versed on the intent of its creation, but I think the name of this site implies a movement not in collusion with the corporate Powers That Be.

And the problem we have today is that many of the elected officials and the actual Democratic Party organization is being co-opted into the corporatocracy.

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Response to aspirant (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:13 AM

Star Member TexasProgresive (11,786 posts)

3. Democratic Underground was created on a black day for the U.S.A.

January 20, 2001, the day of infamy when the man selected by the Supreme Court was inaugurated as president of the United States of America. A year or so ago the founders posted the 1st days of DU. I wish I had bookmarked it because it is really interesting. Maybe someone will see this and post the link.

Those were dark days dripping with despair for many and DU was a gift. Some valuable people have left, some have died by DU is still a place I come to several times daily.

This wiki link gives a little bit of background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Underground

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Response to aspirant (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:36 AM

Erich Bloodaxe BSN (14,733 posts)

4. The people to ask would be the creators, but I believe

it referred to the Party, not to democracy in general. As with Daily Kos, the primary goal seems to be an information aggregator to allow Dems to learn about things going on so that when they talk to non-Dems, they can be informed about that which they're speaking, and hopefully point out the destructive things Republicans do and the good things Dems do. Unfortunately, that depends upon our elected Dems actually DOING good things. It makes it tough to talk up the Party when the high name recognition members of the Party are acting like Republicans, or are themselves constantly trying to boost old Republican ideas as 'good'.

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Response to aspirant (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:12 AM

Scuba (53,475 posts)

5. I agree that these are good questions. Certainly the corporate wing of the party doesn't need ....

 

... any help, underground or not.

As for the number of Democratic principles supported by various wings of our party, I believe it's not how many principles, but which ones. There's a user here who often posts a long, long list of issues on which his/her favorite candidate gets high scores from left-leaning critics. However, the candidate is pro-war, pro-TPP, pro-Wall Street and pro-H1B visas and that, in my opinion, precludes her from being considered Democratic left or even Democratic center.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:25 AM

aspirant (3,533 posts)

6. In the ToS section "Don't Push Your Luck"

and in "Our Community Standards" it says a "diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints."

That apparently EXCLUDES Democratic right wing viewpoints. I couldn't find how DU defines Dem. right wing viewpoints, but maybe I am looking in the wrong place.

Guidance please.

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Response to aspirant (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:36 AM

Scuba (53,475 posts)

7. By my observations, the "broad range of center-to-left viewpoints" has crept steadily right.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:44 AM

aspirant (3,533 posts)

8. Maybe by persistant alerting

we can find out what rightward viewpoints are.

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Response to aspirant (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:47 AM

Scuba (53,475 posts)

9. At first blush, I don't like that idea. The jury system should be focused more on civility than ...

 

... censorship of any particular point of view. At least that's my opinion.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:16 AM

aspirant (3,533 posts)

10. How is it censorship

if it is a forbidden rule?

All these people that are waving goodbye to us when we have a Dem nominee, citing an enforceable rule are using the same method. They will alert in a heartbeat.

Would it not be more civil if the rightward comments were used only to support Dem Principles?

Maybe I'm wrong, but standing up to these bullies is essential, especially now when we could be at a breaking point.

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Response to aspirant (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:21 AM

Scuba (53,475 posts)

11. Perhaps I didn't understand what you were suggesting, but hiding posts ...

 

... that push right-of-center positions sure sounds like censorship to me. I'd rather see rebuttals.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:40 AM

aspirant (3,533 posts)

12. From my experience,

right-of-center posters enjoy attacks rather than rebuttals.

Let's define OUR Democratic principles, your wise suggestion and have DU adopt those as the ruling standards for discussions.

Any anti-principle posts should be hidden and then maybe we can talk in degrees of our principle applications

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Response to aspirant (Reply #12)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:53 AM

Scuba (53,475 posts)

13. Attacks of other members should be hidden since they're not civil. Attacks on ideas are ...

 

... good debate fodder.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #13)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 11:07 AM

aspirant (3,533 posts)

14. Are there any ideas

that are unacceptable on a Democratic forum or is everything debate fodder?

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Response to aspirant (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 11:17 AM

Scuba (53,475 posts)

15. Well, a twice-elected Democratic President proposed "chained-CPI" for Social Security.

 

I personally find such a proposal repugnant, especially coming from a "Democrat." But I would not wish to see it censored here; it needs to be criticized and counter proposals discussed.

Can you give me an example of an idea you would not want debated here?

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Response to aspirant (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:12 PM

Scootaloo (25,699 posts)

18. Except juries tend to be the most unreliable feature on DU

 

If you alert on a clearly bigoted post, seven times out of eight you will get a jury result consisting of "That's just, like, his OPINION, man!" or "You should correct him in a reply, don't waste my time with this!" paired with two more "no comment" "leave it alone" jurors.

Now try getting something stronger than that to try to police the right-wing democrats cluttering up the site.

Yeah, won't happen.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 5, 2015, 04:05 AM

Fairgo (1,571 posts)

23. Relative markers slide

That's the problem. Long time lurker, near to the beginning, the two platforms were nearly indistinguishable; it was a refuge for the party, from the worldview of its principles. But the two have become unmoored and the site stands on the party, with a diminishing view of the values that make membership meaningful. Rooting for a color on a map is not the same as actually standing for some core community identity.

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Response to Fairgo (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 5, 2015, 05:50 AM

Scuba (53,475 posts)

24. +1 You should post more often!

 

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Response to aspirant (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:38 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

21. Believe me I hear what you are saying. BUT, we are liberal/progressives and we

 

don't lower ourselves to their level. They refuse to debate issues but rely on ad hominem attacks, obsessive alerting, and dominating MIRT and hosting. We just need to keep to the message and ignore them. I say this but I admit they bait me into reacting to their bullshit. Starting an alerting war will only divert us from our message of "Corporatism is the enemy". It looks like DU will either go progressive or Third Way. It's up to the Admins. We have little to say.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:29 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

20. Well said Scuba. We have people that think that if they support LGBT rights, then bingo-bango

 

they are progressive. Not to belittle LGBT rights, or civil rights, or women's rights, etc. I STRONGLY SUPPORT ALL OF THEM, but if you don't support fixing the voting system, the corporate ownership of Congress, the growing wealth inequality, I'm sorry, YOU ARE THE ENEMY. THE THIRD WAY IS OUR ENEMY. All advances in social issues will evaporate withing minutes if we lose our freedoms. Some claim we already have.

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Response to aspirant (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 11:19 AM

Cosmic Kitten (3,498 posts)

16. It's "Democratic Underground" not "New Democrats.com"

The "Big Tent" has become a joke.
It's soon to become a punchline in a self-parody
of a democratic party that holds only one "value"...
not a registered republican.

If you don't define yourself
the opposition will define you.

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Response to aspirant (Original post)

Wed Mar 4, 2015, 12:02 PM

Star Member TexasProgresive (11,786 posts)

17. My thanks to Skinner for sending me the link to DUs 1st 7 days

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/01/010127_7days.html
Seven Days Underground
Democratic Underground had its official launch on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001. Much has happened since then. To mark the passing of our first week, we felt that our faithful visitors might like to read a SLIGHTLY EMBELLISHED first-person account of the highs and lows of launching an underground political website. by Skinner

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 5, 2015, 01:50 AM

aspirant (3,533 posts)

22. Thanks for the link!

Whatever happened to the intern?

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Response to aspirant (Original post)

Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.

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