Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumJimmy Dore: "Dear Hillary Voters: It's Not Bernie's Fault She's Terrible"
Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)I can't understand what he's saying.
tblue37
(65,287 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 5, 2016, 07:42 PM - Edit history (1)
Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)With her fake outrage
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)It has to do with the fact that they have sold and can be counted on to continue to sell us down the river, us being the Middle Class and everyone less well-off as well. That is such a crucial factor for me, that and the desire to not go into more unnecessary wars, that my choice of Bernie over Hillary is more than easy. The easiest, most confident political decision I have made in many a year.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)herself, Bill, and Bernie, with a new Progressive Campaign, tomorrow. The Clinton's are profiteering themselves.
http://www.allgov.com/news/unusual-news/8-policy-decisions-bill-clinton-now-regrets-150721?news=857012
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)RATM435
(392 posts)Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)I agree with everything he says. The guy off camera was good too until he tried to paint Bernie supporters as irrational. Wtf? No. Completely unfair. Smh
It's true that the over-the-top vitriolic hate towards Clinton is toxic, but there are very good reasons to hate her. Rational reasons to hate her, and it's unfortunate but understandable that hate is the response. It's a natural reaction, she scares people. Expressions of that hate is where things go wrong, going hysterical plays into their hands. Attack her record, her policies and her behavior - yes. Question her integrity and yes, her character. If she wants to represent us, character matters. But going personal, going dirty? No, leave that to her campaign. They do it well. Let them keep digging.
We have to maintain the moral high ground.
And the right wing media excoriated her in the 90's and since they had the most money, they "won." But the answer to that is not a left wing media doing the same this time around. We have to properly frame this fight, it's not D v R, it's democracy v fascism/oligarchy.
ejbr
(5,856 posts)I appreciate the guy off camera's explanation to Joan's tweet. I can imagine that there are a lot of hostilities on Twitter and she must be responding to the large portion of suspects. Still, he is conflating our issues with the irrational right wing which is not fair.
Maybe our perspective requires clarification. We do not, at least I don't, hate Hillary; I hate what and who she represents. She is MUCH better than repigs on many, many issues, but the lesser of two evils is getting outdated for those of us struggling to get by.
Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)Where that dislike of her politics eventually turns into dislike of her personally is hard to say. Yes, there are plenty of unfair attacks on her. Those bother me because they obscure the many, many extremely fair things for which she should be held to account. The right-wing obsession with Benghazi, for instance, obscures the very real problems HRC's policy of pushing regime change created, and the unmitigated disaster that has ensued. The right is concerned about whether the Clintons killed Vince Foster. Who cares? What I am concerned about are the Clintonian policies are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians stretched across a number of different countries. As I've mentioned in other threads, it is entirely, logically possible that HRC is not corrupt in the ways that the right tends to paint her, yet incredibly corrupted in many other, more troubling ways.
Of course, I admit my biases. I have never had love for the Clintons, and I see the politics they represent as center-right. Even HRC, to the extent that she's been forced to pivot left during the primaries, will likely--in my view, at least--snap back to classic Clinton politics the minute she gets near any official position, be it the presidency or anything else. Is she better than the GOP on various issues? Maybe. It would be easier to say if I could actually get a fix on what her real views are; yet I realize that they are the reverse of what they were even a few years ago, and tomorrow will probably vastly different yet again. In fact, if Hillary were to sit this election out and run 4-8 years from now, perhaps she'd have finally "evolved" into Bernie's entire platform. It seems she is always about 8 years behind the right side of history, so that seems like a safe time frame.
Not a huge fan of Walsh or Marcotte either, but again, that's because I think their politics suck and because I think they promote a kind of self-obsessed and (as I've put it elsewhere) white, first-world, selective McFeminism, in which Margaret Thatcher herself could easily be propped up as some kind of feminist icon. As for the Bernie Bros garbage, this same circle poisons the political atmosphere by helping to push HRC campaign talking points into the MSM echo chamber--although I think much of it goes back to Rebecca Traister, who not only pushed the Bernie Bros narrative, but also the Obama Boys narrative.
I hate liars
(165 posts)Factually, Hillary is a center-right Democrat. You can argue that she is better than a garden-variety Republican. Fine.
But is that enough to get Democrats out to vote? Not in my case.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)I'm so sick of this kind of nonsensical illogic. It is so disconnected from anything
remotely true or genuinely plausible, yet it continues unabated.
Meanwhile Bullhorn Bill 'has his way' criminally disrupting polling places to deny
people their right to vote, then lies about Hillary's positions on "free college", etc.
And people wonder why voters get so disgusted with politics altogether, and just
simply don't participate or even vote. Well, THIS is the reason.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)She is the one who is far too right-wing.
The right-wingers may dislike her, but she is far too right-wing for me.
And I don't think she can win because she is a terrible politician.
She scolds. Obama has such warmth. I don't agree with Obama's closeness to Wall Street either, but he is a wonderful, warm, loving human being.
And in the contest between Hillary and Bernie, Bernie wins on the warm, loving human being scale. Wins by many, many miles.
Hillary will lose to Trump. There is an excellent article on Alternet that explains why she will lose to Trump.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/why-hillary-could-be-lot-more-vulnerable-trump-bernie
This article was posted elsewhere on DU.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)her War Record and College Baggage. And the Middle Class and Elderly will not vote for her on Wall Street and Social Security. This is the vision that came to me reading the Alternet article and reading the information on the polls.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Who backs her?
The Party hacks who love her for her money.
The Party loyalists who march in step to the beat of the Party hacks.
The rest of us just may be staying home in November. I will vote for other Democrats but not for Hillary.
I hate liars
(165 posts)I have 6 sisters, and at least one of my sisters plans to vote for Hillary because she's a woman.
Having grown up with my sisters and maintained close relationships with them, I understand that inclination, and have told them that I understand it.
But I believe that Hillary would be far worse for women than Bernie would be - for women with low-paying jobs, struggling to pay for college, challenged with paying for health emergencies, pressed into unnecessary wars, paying down loan balances.
It's disheartening to think that the most consequential election of our lifetime might be determined by well intentioned but misdirected reactions to 100 years of female repression. And I say that in solidarity with my sisters, who deserve much better.
I hate liars
(165 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)a woman's right to choose, a woman's right over her own body.
Voting for her because she is a woman doesn't make any sense once you know that.
.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Wow. That's interesting.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)If Hillary does become president, her policy positions and her willingness to adopt Republican ideas will make her presidency a colossal failure. As a woman, myself, I don't want America's first female president to be such a co-opting war hawk. It will taint the public against another, more deserving, female leader in the future.