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Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:24 AM

OUCH!!! How do other Sanderistas respond to Tom Hayden turning against Bernie ...

This discussion thread was locked by Puglover (a host of the Bernie Sanders group).

... and endorsing Hillary IN THE PRIMARY CAMPAIGN?????!!!!!!

https://www.thenation.com/article/i-used-to-support-bernie-but-then-i-changed-my-mind/

I think someone who has access to some kind of internet media (whether the Nation itself, or Talking Points Memo, or whatever) should put arguments here and elsewhere together into a rebuttal that actually gets published and distributed.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply OUCH!!! How do other Sanderistas respond to Tom Hayden turning against Bernie ... (Original post)
cloudythescribbler Apr 2016 OP
cloudythescribbler Apr 2016 #1
merrily Apr 2016 #2
cloudythescribbler Apr 2016 #14
merrily Apr 2016 #15
Bubzer Apr 2016 #18
MisterP Apr 2016 #13
LovingA2andMI Apr 2016 #3
thereismore Apr 2016 #4
Blue Meany Apr 2016 #5
DaveT Apr 2016 #6
GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #7
merrily Apr 2016 #10
Bubzer Apr 2016 #19
Politicalboi Apr 2016 #8
jillan Apr 2016 #9
HubertHeaver Apr 2016 #11
Maedhros Apr 2016 #12
Bernin4U Apr 2016 #16
merrily Apr 2016 #21
Donkees Apr 2016 #17
cloudythescribbler Apr 2016 #20

Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:26 AM

1. for starters I think he totally misconstrues the role of race in the campaign ...

Are there some black and latino Sanderistas who could answer that more in depth on this thread? I think that in the longer term struggle for the (relatively) progressive wing of the Democratic Party this issue is very important -- not just or primarily for this election cycle

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:32 AM

2. I don't think this thread is helpful or belongs in this group. Please consider self deleting.

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Response to merrily (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 04:02 PM

14. as a bernie supporter I strongly think this is important to discuss & rebut

and it is better in a forum where you don't have lots of gloating hillary supporters and hot arguments

on the Left, Hayden at least in the past has had a lot of influence. this is important even if it isn't totally happy and good news, and important to respond to seriously

it may be that hayden was always warmer towards hillary than he lets on, but the thrust of his argument needs to be addressed by bernie supporters

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 04:23 PM

15. Obviously, I disagree.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 05:00 PM

18. This is not an appropriate forum to call into account Sander's viability.

In fact, that runs explicitly against the ToS of this group.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 01:16 PM

13. Sanders isn't tossing a sixth of Black men in jail or detonating Latin American democracies

in the name of a passel of murderous cartel chiefs

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:37 AM

3. Agree...

Why Is this here? It should be deleted.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:41 AM

4. He can't pass on the chance to elect the first woman president. It's in the article. Sorry, I'm not

impressed by his reasoning.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:41 AM

5. One thing he got wrong is that Bernie had 18 months to organize

 

at the grassroots in the South. He launched his campaign April 30 and did really have funds to do anything before that.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:47 AM

6. Who is Tom Hayden?

Didn't he used to be famous?

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:48 AM

7. Hayden was for Hillary since 2012...

 

Another astroturfing fake supporter bullshit piece.

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Response to GeorgiaPeanuts (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 11:03 AM

10. THANK YOU. That's how it struck me, but I hesitated to post that because of who he is/was.

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Response to merrily (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 05:02 PM

19. I had similar thoughts. I'm thankful for the clarity on this.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:49 AM

8. He's got money now

 

And Hillary probably gave him some to support her. That's how she gets endorsements. She HAS to pay them. No one with half a brain would support her Oh.........

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 10:54 AM

9. I don't. Everyone is entitled to vote for whichever candidate they want. It's as simple as that.

I don't view it as an OUCH at all. I view it as Whatever!

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 11:13 AM

11. Tom Hayden?

Of the Chicago 7?

He should support Hillary. The same ilk and all.

If there are any disruptions at the convention, check out where ol' Tommy is. and his damn friends.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 11:33 AM

12. Any piece that begins "I used to support Bernie BUT...."

 

was written by someone who never supported Bernie.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 04:24 PM

16. Usual circular bullshite.

Dems need to unite because Trump. (Gee, unite behind whom? Oh, the current front runner?)

Vote for Hillary because she's the strongest because she has the lead.

And the rest... Says basically nothing.

The whole, "I used to be a Bernie supporter, (but then came to my senses)," is like saying, "I used to support equal marriage...".

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Response to Bernin4U (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 05:09 PM

21. Perfect analogy, thanks.

I would believe someone who believed the bs about McGovern and said, "I used to support Hillary because I didn't want a repeat of 1972. However, now that I see Bernie winning primaries, I am supporting him."

Not the other way, though. There have just been too many fake conversions on DU for me to buy it. These are people who I never believed supported Bernie from Day One. So, when I read their "I've seen the light" posts, I just

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Original post)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 04:51 PM

17. He *misunderstood*. He said that the Congressional Black Caucus endorsing Hillary...

was a decisive factor for him. But they didn't. It was the Congressional Black Caucus PAC


The Congressional Black Caucus PAC announced its endorsement of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign on Thursday, a move that is being widely interpreted as a sign of her deep support from the African-American community. As they made their announcement, CBC PAC officials downplayed Bernie Sanders’ proposals for poverty reduction and tuition-free college as unrealistic, while touting Clinton as a bold leader.

Some of the members who spoke at the event, held at the Democratic National Committee headquarters, anticipated the same kind of criticism that the Sanders campaign has made of some other Washington-based leadership groups that have endorsed Clinton. “We are not from the establishment, we are from the streets,” said Rep. Gregory Meeks, D-N.Y.

But the Congressional Black Caucus PAC is not the same thing as the Congressional Black Caucus, which is made up of 46 members of Congress. Indeed, Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., a Sanders supporter, made that point on Twitter:


Ellison then said in another tweet that “endorsements should be the product of a fair open process. Didn’t happen.”


Ben Branch, the executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus PAC, told The Intercept that his group made the decision after a vote from its 20-member board. The board includes 11 lobbyists, seven elected officials, and two officials who work for the PAC. Branch confirmed that the lobbyists were involved in the endorsement, but would not go into detail about the process.

Members of the CBC PAC board include Daron Watts, a lobbyist for Purdue Pharma, the maker of the highly addictive opioid OxyContin; Mike Mckay and Chaka Burgess, both lobbyists for Navient, the student loan giant that was spun off of Sallie Mae; former Rep. Albert Wynn, D-Md., a lobbyist who represents a range of clients, including work last year on behalf of Lorillard Tobacco, the maker of Newport cigarettes; and William A. Kirk, who lobbies for a cigar industry trade group on a range of tobacco regulations.

And a significant percentage of the $7,000 raised this cycle by the CBC PAC from individuals was donated by white lobbyists, including Vic Fazio, who represents Philip Morris and served for years as a lobbyist to Corrections Corporation of America, and David Adams, a former Clinton aide who now lobbies for Wal-Mart, the largest gun distributor in America.


https://theintercept.com/2016/02/11/congressional-black-caucus-hillary/

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Response to Donkees (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 13, 2016, 05:03 PM

20. excellent points -- furthermore, Hayden shouldn't kneejerk follow CBC anyway

There are good reasons that the Clintons have long been popular in the black community -- first and foremost that the Clinton years were very good economically throughout the country. In fact, as an Obama supporter in 07-08 from day one (hoping that Obama would NOT be another neoliberal like the Cilntons, Gore, Kerry and Lieberman) I remember how for what seemed like the longest time Hillary Clinton had a double-digit lead in the polls among African-American voters. Oprah Winfrey's endorsement and active campaigning helped that to shift in 07.

But imagine that HRC gets the nomination and then gets elected president. Once again I would hope that Bernie Sanders does NOT simply fold up his organization but transforms it into a center of progressive opposition both within and outside the Democratic Party. At that point, I would imagine that there could be a much broader appeal during the years of a Hillary Clinton presidency for blacks and latinos. Bernie Sanders already has the support of many important progressives including, very vocally, Michelle Alexander, author of the blockbuster book "The New Jim Crow". So in my view, Tom Hayden's reasoning about race falls apart even without all the rather dubious realities of the Congressional Black Caucus PAC -- Hayden has been a very sophisticated progressive observer of US politics for over 50 years and should know better than to follow the kind of racial politics logic he advances in that essay.

I would like to see one or more DUers with online media connexions write a stirring rebuttal to Hayden == and this is VERY MUCH something that should be discussed in the Bernie Sanders group (in my arrogant opinion)

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