Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumFrom what I've been able to gather, these were the major problems Bernie had in obtaining POC votes
(Just thought I'd put them up here for discussion. We need to learn from this year)
1) He wasn't able, when speaking to AA audiences, to convey a sense of hope and inspiration, to convince them that our revolution would involve and include POC and be relevant to their needs. He conveyed anger, but that audience seemed to take it as though he was angry AT them, rather than at the system that harms all of us;
2) He didn't seem to be able to convince POC that he understood that the effects of institutional racism meant that the programs he advocated would need to do more for those communities than for others. Obviously his programs would have had more effect among POC communities, but he somehow made it read to them as though he was proposing "one size fits all" approaches that regarded racism as a thing of the past;
3) He had trouble conveying that he understood(as I am convinced he truly does understand)that the struggles against group oppression were separate(though clearly related)to the struggle for economic justice. He needed to find the language that conveyed an intersectionality approach to this;
4) He phrased his critique of the shortcomings of the Obama administration on policy and tactics in a way that sounded like(even if it was never meant as) personal disrespect of the president. This may have started the rift the HRC campaign was so effective in exploiting. It's also a major part of the reason(though not the only one) the alliance with Cornel West ended up doing so much damage.
5) At the start of his campaign, he did not make it clear that he supported criminal justice reform and understood what BLM was and is justifiably enraged about on that issue. This was corrected, but by the time it was, the damage was done.
What suggestions does anyone here have about how a future left campaign can avoid these mistakes?
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Response to Ken Burch (Original post)
metroins This message was self-deleted by its author.
brewens
(13,546 posts)All you have to realize is who benefits from that bullshit. His history of civil right activism showed it was bullshit. It was also refusing to take yes for an answer on the part of some African Americans that bought into it.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)that they could twist then allege racism.
Bernie is so, so far from being racist that anyone alleging that is nothing but a campaign hack who has zero regard for the truth.
So many lies were told about Bernie that these groups outed themselves as propagandists, paid or unpaid.
Bernie has tried to fight injustice for everyone. Hillary takes money from for-profit prisons. I guarantee that Bernie will never endorse legislation to impose harsher prison sentences so his friends can make more money by keeping innocent or low-level offenders behind bars longer.
Hillary will fight for you if you can afford $225,000/hour.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Most of the voters we lost don't make their political decisions based on what happens on social media.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)next truly progressive candidate.
brewens
(13,546 posts)on time. So I'll be looking forward to maybe just fishing and drinking beer within 100 miles of where I grew up in Idaho. Throw in a trip to the Oregon coast once a year or so and I'll be happy. There are members of the 1% that would be more that happy to take all that way from me for what would amount to maybe a years worth of yacht gas for them. I'm far from privileged really, but I would feel pretty good about at least making that work out.
I'll admit that gay rights and civil rights have never been anything I laid awake at night worrying about. I would vote in favor of their rights any chance I got though. I never put my ass on the line marching or protesting but Bernie did. I don't care how long ago it was, he did it when it needed to be done.
I've seen those posts about how some PoC, feel they can't risk a failed revolution. They will be the ones to take the punch in the face. Kind of like risking losing the easier job at the big house on the plantation and ending up back in the fields for rocking the boat. I get that. I've accused upper class white people of the same. They are being screwed by the 1% too, they just don't realize it, and will be the first under the bus when the shit hits the fan. When that happens, the fan is gonna stay hit! It's already happening really. I think Bernie is just a continuation of the Occupy movement. That never went away, and we aren't going away.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)(Of course, I'm not in a relationship at this point so that makes things easier).
I understand where you are coming from, and I supported Bernie too.
Nothing I posted here is meant to question or disrespect your reality and your experience.
What I'm trying to do is to help the Sanders movement confront the problem that did more than anything else this year to stop us.
Please take this thread in that spirit.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)I think Sanders is saying that the biggest thing you can do to reduce racism is to reduce the level of income inequality, not only poverty. I agree with that. But I don't think it was well articulated. Perhaps even if it was, not enough African Americans agreed.
democratic primary votes tend to have more organization in get out the vote structures, especially in the south where there are relatively fewer democratic voters over all. A lot of the African American vote in the southern primaries is framed by African-American churches and tends to be more old school democratic party establishment.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)
sorechasm
(631 posts)Wherever, he was able to gain the trust of POC, he got their vote (under 40 crowd using Social Media). For the rest, Bernie just didn't have enough time to get his message across.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)did us such horrible damage. The campaign needed to be ready to appeal to the entire Democratic base straight out of the gate, and it wasn't.
I'm not discounting the cynical way our opponents used identity politics(that was a real part of all of this), but there many things we could have done to miminize the effectiveness of that strategy and to win the big-state primaries where we were stopped.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Is not only right out the box running but realistically he did not have the 20+ years of in your face pandering She had but he also did not have the benefit of having a spouse as a past potus.
Her, Inc. Was allowed to define public perception of an unknown candidate and they did this as well as everything else bearing her/their fingerprints.
If Sanders had begun his rise as democratic candidate 2 years ago vs 1, we would had a very different outcome with that demographic I do believe. There would have been time to counter the lies and have the truth well known and publicized.
I've come to the conclusion that most of the public are happy to be hand fed sheep and expect room service instead of going out to the forest to catch a meal. And if we had looked at the majority of the electorate as She/they do and operate under those rudimentary and simple rules, there would have been deeper in-roads made. STILL, we would need more than this 1 year to do it and that just isn't enough.
Onward!
Donkees
(31,341 posts)Lewis proclaimed that he never met him in the movement, didn't know him, etc. The Congressional Black Caucus PAC endorsed Clinton, but it was reported as the CBC endorsing her, etc. That was hashed out and cleared up, then new photos of young Bernie surfaced proving that he didn't lie and proved it was really him in the photos. Bernie didn't campaign in the southern states because he didn't have as many donations early in the campaign and was not well known. That's a part of it also.
Raster
(20,998 posts)Even though Bernie put his life on the line during the battles for Civil Rights, he was pretty much swiftboated on the racial issue just about everywhere he turned, INCLUDING ON DU. I could be a tad bit on the snarky side and point out that it was unfortunate that he wasn't photographed with Bill and Hill and Martin and John as they crossed the bridge hand-in-hand.
Oh wait, that didn't happen.
And I still find it abso-fucking-lutely amazing that the Good Ship Clinton gets such a free pass on racial issues, when he was right up there with Raygun, re: damage to minority communities and persons of color.
The mileage one does get out of Ray-Bans and a saxaphone.
Iwillnevergiveup
(9,298 posts)for some very well thought out considerations. I would add that having been a teacher for the past 20 years in L.A., Long Beach and Pasadena, I've seen up close there is pretty apparent prejudice and dis-harmony between Hispanic and Black populations. Both groups are disproportionately represented in the criminal justice system.
Otherwise, I don't disagree with one single thing you posted.
K&R
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)I'm African-American and a Bernie supporter. Most of the bitching is from Hillary supporters who never had any intention of supporting Bernie. As to their motivations...who knows? But the bullshit about "providing help for Bernie to connect with AA's" has proven to be complete bullshit. The Clintons have a totally undeserved devotion from some AA's also.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Did you take some time away from posting on DU?
All that I'm doing with this OP is trying to put in what I thought were legitimate critiques of the communication issues we had with POC voters, so that the next time we have a progressive candidate we can avoid making the same mistakes.
As soon as I saw the webpage at the beginning of the campaign and noticed that it said nothing about racism or criminal reform, it was clear that we had vulnerabilities.
I fully agree with you that the HRC campaign has been massively cynical about the way it has used identity politics in general.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)This may interest you. Shirley Chisolm was shunned by some black politicos, including Jesse Jackson, who Bernie supported in his bid for President. Jesse Jackson just endorsed Hillary Clinton. Chisolm was also trying to build and inclusive campaign, like Bernie. On another thread, I gave some suggestions, e.g., recruiting black people to speak to other black people. But bottom line, you will not get ANY constructive suggestions from Clinton supporters. Most of their complaints about Bernie are superficial, at best, and disinformatio, at it's worst. As for my treatment in the AA forum, I chose not to post there anymore because of the ridiculous attacks on Bermie.
"He thinks all black people are poor"
"His supporters are all white"
"His supporters are racist"
"He thinks economics will fix everything"
"He is tonedeaf on race"
"If he is so great, why are so many blacks imprisoned in Vermont"
"So he marched for civil rights, what has he done lately?"
Rinse, lather, repeat. I WISH there were something, anything of substance, but there was mostly rage tgat he used the word "ghetto."
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)campaign CHOSE to portray bernie's campaign. there really is no truth in it other than hype.
the ONLY groups of POC that favored CLINTON are older african american voters - wealthier asians - and EAST COAST cubans and puerto ricans.
everywhere else, first nations, "latinos" - from many countries, young african americans, asians all leaned toward bernie. however, with racketeering and the shenanigans at the polls in many states, we may never know the exact stats.
it really, really, really irks me when white people think they know why poc people did not vote for bernie and suggest they know how to fix it.
this is the big problem when trying to include poc - but not going to poc and into their communities to ask them what can be done and LET THEM TELL YOU.
also, when meeting a poc - ask them what they call themselves. let them tell you.
apologies if people perceive the caps as shouting - but, it cannot be stressed enough how offensive it is when white people post the same stereotypical b.s. about poc.
yes, i am a mixed older woman of color. red and brown.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I agree with you that no one should tell POC what to do.
And I hope it didn't come across as though that was what I was doing here.
This is largely addressed to white Bernie supporters and those who want to build a strong progressive movement on the base of what was created here.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)sincerely intends to include poc, start now and recruit leadership that are poc grassroots leaders who reflect progressive thinking. they are busy working in their communities - go there to find them - listen to them and let them tell you. respectfully, do not speak for them.
what i appreciate about bernie, he had bonafide grassroots poc working for his campaign - and, they were successful in reaching out to their communities. an example is all of the well attended rallies bernie held in podunk rural communities - in northern ca, the central valley - santa maria, etc. he also had great outreach to first nations communities - even in arizona.
however, clinton's casino ties in nevada and arizona made sure she was seen with first nations people - but that was indeed, a false front.
thank you for your reply, ken burch. ~ in a good way, hopemountain.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,020 posts)The Sanders campaign wasn't perfect or even top shelf but it wasn't awful, it did not come out specifically and directly campaigning for the black vote and I'm not sure it could and other than very local campaigns I've not seen it happen including Clinton's but it may have been the only way to get even ground with that particular swiftboat and brand advantage.
Moving forward? Get into the churches and get some money moving. Lay some foundation with Urban Leagues.
I'd say some of the business cliques, foundations, and groups and I guess you have to try because a lot of those folks have huge influence but it is always uphill dealing with the money focused minority status isn't an immunity shield to greed and "I built this", make no mistake if the TeaPubLieKlans weren't a bunch racist dumpster fires a bunch of folks would be STAUNCH Republicans (and a few actually are anyway).
Some black Democrats are actually both fiscal and socially conservative, we hold them because we don't oppose their humanity they aren't going too liberal if they can help it.
Build networks with black educators.
More are kind of socially conservative and moderate or even liberal fiscally and even more are moderate/non ideological but are fiercely partisan out of necessity these folks are risk adverse because they or people they love are in precarious positions disruptions hit them first and hardest as do Republican wins so functionally they are allied with the status quo, you got to convince them you are as safe a bet or better than the establishment candidate.
Mission critical though is engaging young minority voters and getting them to turn out and do it consistently. Gotta nip the establishment comfort and conservatism in the bud and grow liberalism.
You have to build relationships and be a familiar.
It's tough against the Clintons (though it shouldn't be, I think we should be running scared when they come glad handing and clapping because the next fuck over is coming) but a lot of black folks put a lot into they come to sell them on the screwing first and transfer the blame to generic white liberals peddling snake (amnesia sets in who the white Democrats were it seems) oil later once the reaming is clear.
I'm like that "relationship" y'all are going about was those not actually liberal white politicians selling us the fuck out with shit like the crime bill and education deform.
That rising tide that failed to lift all ships? The same motherfuckers were Pied Pipering that shit to beat the band and managed to somehow hang it on liberals too.
You can't sell and close on policy without the networking is all I can pull out of it. Strangely, you might have the patience to make more sense out of it than me because my brain says "does not compute" in many sections, I don't feel inside on this
