Bernie's Gain

[aspirant]

If VP Biden jumps in, a dilemma arises as to who does Obama support? If he chooses Biden, then what % of the Clinton AA vote peels off and goes to Biden? As more become aware of Bernie's continual civil rights stances, expect more peel offs.

If Obama stays neutral, how does Hillary hold the AA vote?

If Biden plays the Conservative to allow HRC to slide more left, he still peels off votes from Hillary making her more vulnerable. Either way, Biden in or Biden out Bernie's campaign will grow.

[merrily]

1. All I know is, Bernie is my candidate and the candidate of everyone I know.

By a lot.

[Enthusiast]

2. Me too. And that is a problem for TPTB.

[merrily]

3. One had mentioned fear of the McGovern effect.

She said she really liked Bernie, but was afraid Democrats would lost the general if he were the nominee. That was about three weeks ago.

So, I sent her these links and begged her to take her time and click through to all the links within the posts, and the replies to demwing's 1972 thread:

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1277&pid=7603

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6211673

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12776532

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12779277

I guess she did, because, by the time I sent my address book an email about Bernie she was already excited about voting for Bernie and telling all her friends.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128031202

Every single response I got from my email was similar to hers. These were the kinds of replies I got: "So glad you're another voice for Bernie!" "I've been excited about voting for him ever since he announced."

The ages in the group I emailed, being family and friends, ranged from 80 to 22. My biggest surprise was that none of the older women I know, including the 80 year old, were for Hillary. I expected at least a couple of "want to see a woman President before I go" replies, but I got none.

[Autumn]

4. Thanks for those links.

Those are some of the best OPs I have seen on DU. Ever.

[merrily]

5. Wow. High praise, esp. coming from someone as incisive as you. I'm very grateful and

flattered. And blushing

[Enthusiast]

6. Thank you for all you do on behalf of the Bernie campaign. I reviewed the posts at your links.

Those posts are deserving of much greater recognition. They are some excellent, informative posts. I salute you.

[merrily]

7. Gosh, I don't know what to say.

Those posts were more anti-coronation than pro-Bernie. I have not yet done the post about Bernie that I have been meaning to do. I'm afraid of leaving out important things.

[appalachiablue]

17. While I don't have time now these will be saved for later review. Thanks for compiling all of

this and your insights which are excellent as usual. Yesterday your thoughts would have added to the major OP by Bravnak which I note here in #16. Maybe you weren't available or around, esp. on a weekend which is sensible. Never a dull moment around here these days, and matters certainly are becoming a bit wild!

[TBF]

8. Joe/Hillary are both centrists -

he's the back-up if Hillary implodes or has health issues. They are the establishment. This doesn't affect Bernie at all in my view.

[GoneFishin]

12. It smells like part of a corporatist backup plan to me also. But I think they are hoping to slice

off some potential Bernie votes to Biden then consolidate them all to either Biden or Hillary when the other drops out before the primary.

It think this is an Anybody-But-Bernie strategy which is equivalent to throwing spaghetti at the wall.

[aspirant]

13. In this back-up plan,

where do the heart-felt AA voters fit in?

What are their significance in this establishment game?

[TBF]

14. AA voters will have to answer that - Bravenek has done

some amazing OPs. It is not her job to education us all yet she continues to do so - I think she is probably a very nice person IRL.

I guess they will look at both parties like we all do & assess which candidate will do the least harm. At least that is how I've been looking at it. Until we get rid of capitalism (or at least massively push back) we are all being treated badly if we are not in the 1% that owns everything. AA voters are not only "treated badly" but were brought to the US under horrific conditions and remain targets of bigotry to this day. As a white woman I don't think I have standing to tell them what to do or who to vote for. All I can say is that I think Bernie is the best choice for folks who are feeling disenfranchised in the US. That of course is only my opinion.

[aspirant]

15. If you are "feeling disenfranchised"

and "treated badly" why would you support "establishment" candidates?

[appalachiablue]

16. Read Bravnak's major OP from yesterday, I believe you & Merrily missed it. It's a gem.

She says she knows things, is prescient, doesn't want to hear anymore about Bernie's past, that black people know their history and don't need to be told. It's quite interesting, as are the many comments and posts with quite a few sincerely thanking her for her guidance and enlightenment.
It was brought up that white liberals aren't to be trusted, as Malcom said, they're back stabbers, and folks who don't love Obama will never gain AAs support. The premise was to teach people how to gain AA votes if I understood correctly. In one comment I stated that she should offer her advice and expertise to the Sanders and Clinton campaigns.

Bernie Supporters: Please Read My Post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251488879

[aspirant]

20. So,

who loves Obama more, VP Biden or SoS Clinton?

[appalachiablue]

23. I have no idea which of these two Obama loves more and he'll have a long time to declare.

Biden's job is clearly to pull voters away from Sanders the outsider, an effort on which HRC may be compromised. Centrist Dems. see the appeal, and danger of Bernie (and Trump) attracting prog. Dems., independents and possibly disillusioned Reagan Democrats.
The M$M blackout of Sanders and distortion of him by pundits like Chris Matthews who just claimed he's a state controlled Soviet style Socialist, also are designed to marginalize Bernie and preserve insider control by the corp. Dems. Growing claims of Bernie being racially indifferent here, at the Net Roots incident and on blogs despite evidence to the contrary are part of the strategy to keep or bring AA and Latino voters in the DLC Dem. camp obviously.

If a black voting block is forming and ends up supporting HRC (or Biden) if Bernie doesn't win the nomination, I'd advise them to negotiate for substantial reparations. And get it locked up before delivering votes. It's long overdue and now or never. The money is there, it can be taken out of the enormous military budget God knows.

[TBF]

18. Not me personally -

but it's not up for me to decide for everyone. If they've got a movement going (AA voters) they are likely voting as a block. I respect that.

[ellennelle]

9. obama won't take sides

he's already said so, and he's right to stay neutral.

his best bet, if he has not already expressed this, is to emphasize that ALL our candidates would make outstanding presidents, and the american peeps should decide without his influence.

period.

[aspirant]

10. So the AA vote is totally independent of Obama

and will choose Obama's SoS over Obama's VP?

[daybranch]

11. Obama won't take sides, why not?

Does he not have a duty to inform us as to who he supports on the issues and why? C'mon, say the name!

[TBF]

19. It's better for Bernie if he keeps neutral honestly -

he's kind of conservative (in my view) and more likely to pick Hillary or Joe.

So if AA voters choose to go with Hillary/Joe I respect that. I think our target potential voters (for Bernie) are Reagan dems. There are a lot of them out there and they want to hear about economics and that's why Bernie is talking about economics (again, in my view). He has been around awhile and has seen the same changes in this country that I have in regard to how the 1% have robbed everyone else blind.

It is also my view that this country should open discussion about reparations for AA folks after how they've been treated. I don't know if Bernie would talk about that, but it's certainly something I'd like to see addressed. I think it's long past due. Think of all the slave labor hours - this country was built on that labor. Families should be compensated for that imo.

[aspirant]

21. If you want Bernie to stay neutral, why are you suggesting he talk about "reparations"?

[TBF]

22. Maybe I worded it badly - I meant that it is better

for Bernie if Obama remains neutral.