HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Groups » Bernie Sanders (Group) » Questions about Bernie

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 04:15 AM

Questions about Bernie

I like most of what I have heard about Sanders. I agree with a lot of his positions. But I have three questions about the man. 1: Is he tough enough to win. Does he understand that politics is war without the shooting? 2: Does he understand that government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force. 3: If elected as a Democrat, will he govern as a Democrat. Or will he attempt to 'reach across the aisle,' 'form a bipartisan consensus' or other such caving in?

Wolf

13 replies, 624 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 13 replies Author Time Post
Reply Questions about Bernie (Original post)
Wolf Frankula Sep 2015 OP
merrily Sep 2015 #1
smokey nj Sep 2015 #2
LiberalElite Sep 2015 #4
rogerashton Sep 2015 #5
merrily Sep 2015 #6
rogerashton Sep 2015 #9
JackInGreen Sep 2015 #3
JDPriestly Sep 2015 #7
merrily Sep 2015 #10
RoccoR5955 Sep 2015 #8
djean111 Sep 2015 #11
daleanime Sep 2015 #12
artislife Sep 2015 #13

Response to Wolf Frankula (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 04:50 AM

1. Those were four questions. Answers (in the order of your questions.)

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. Don't know what you mean by governing is force. Please elaborate.

4. He will govern as a Democrat who gets stuff done. To get stuff done, you have to negotiate. (You get that it takes at least 60 Senate votes to accomplish anything, right? And Democrats don't have sixty votes in the Senate. So, you have to bring Republicans into it.) I'm pretty fucking sure he'll compromise less than Hillary. For just one example, he's never filed two unconstitutional bills against flag desecration just to triangulate; never voted for any of our three attacks in Iraq, etc.

He has gotten stuff done. Even as an indie, he has written bills and amendments that became law. As far as I know, that is not something Senator Clinton ever accomplished. One of his negotiations became a case study at the Brookings Institute.

Finally, I hope you are sincere and not concern trolling because, frankly, we've already seen too much of that for reasons I don't understand, specifically Hillary fans pretending to be Bernie fans or undecided and "wondering" if Bernie, a man who has been in elected office for over 34 years, getting re-elected over and over, can "really" do the job.

I took a quick look at your posting history and, candidly, it seems that you are much more of a Hillary fan than a Sanders fan. For example, I have no idea why someone who doesn't believe the US can afford single payer would support Sanders. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=407431

If I am wrong to wonder, so be it. I am wondering anyway, because I've seen this before too many times. AFAIK, though, no one who is a Bernie fan has ever pretended to be a Hillary fan or confused about Hillary's qualifications. I guess we didn't get the memo.



Please know that this post is mine, and mine alone, and does not represent any other member of the Bernie Sanders Group. That is another thing that has tended to happen far too much on this board: Taking something one lone supporter of Sanders has posted and using it as a cudgel against all other supporters on this board, sometimes even all his millions of supporters in real life.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 05:15 AM

2. I highly doubt the sincerity of these questions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to smokey nj (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 06:28 AM

4. Ditto -

in fact, IMO if they were posted to Senator Sanders I would take them as insulting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 06:30 AM

5. Well, I have been accused of doing that.

AFAIK, though, no one who is a Bernie fan has ever pretended to be a Hillary fan or confused about Hillary's qualifications.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=556756

Judge for yourself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rogerashton (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 06:32 AM

6. Not by me, though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to merrily (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 08:08 AM

9. Right, not by you. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wolf Frankula (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 05:50 AM

3. Before we answer

Take that copy of the art of war and toss it. New Game new rules.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wolf Frankula (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 06:40 AM

7. Your questions, one by one.

1: Is he tough enough to win. Does he understand that politics is war without the shooting?


Bernie has a long history of being elected against all odds, first around 8 years as mayor of Burlington, Vermont and then beginning in 1990 to Congress, both the House and Senate. That is well over 30 years in elected office, both in executive and legislative posts.

Prior to his successful campaigns, he ran unsuccessful ones. He ran against people with far more money than he had, and he won. I think we can safely say that he is tough enough to win and that he understands what politics is about.

While one aspect of politics is "war without the shooting," another aspect is representing your constituents, in the case of the president, all the people of the United States and knowing when to compromise and how to get the best deal. Bernie's many years of experience and his tough approach in his speeches and in his policy proposals strongly suggest that, yes, he is tough enough to win.

Bernie also has a plan for winning after he has been elected, and that is to mobilize his supporters to petition Congress and to continue to strongly back him in an organized way once he is elected.

One of the first things I noticed about Bernie's campaign speeches, was his use of "we" and especially his apparent idea that "we will deal with Congress."

In her early speeches, Hillary approached the campaign as "You elect me and I will deal with Congress." I think Bernie's approach is a winner. The "we" idea certainly prevailed when it came to the net neutrality question.

It may be tougher if we get a Republican Congress, but if Bernie successfully pulls of the "we" strategy during his presidency, "we" are more likely to have a Democratic Congress throughout his tenure in the White House.

2: Does he understand that government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force.


Government is not just reason, and not just eloquence, but it is also not just force. It is a combination. Reason and eloquence are the tools of the successful politician. If he uses them well, he rarely has to resort to force. Bernie is past master of this. As mayor of Burlington, Bernie managed to redevelop land into a beautiful park and instituted some police reforms that worked well among other things. A weak executive or mayor cannot accomplish those kinds of projects or improvements and be elected to four two-year terms. Bernie has proved that he knows how to govern.

Force is to be used as a last resort. Bernie demonstrates in his speeches over and over that he understands that. For one thing, he tells his audiences in no uncertain terms that no president can change policy, can win victories for the people, without the active support of the people. Our Constitution proposes and guarantees a government by elected representatives. Lincoln who certainly used force successfully while president described it as government of the people, for the people an by the people. Government that lives up to the ideals of our Constitution and of Lincoln's vision will wield the force of the people in the interests of the people.

Bernie's vision on national security is that force is a last resort and that it is appropriate in response to an attack and in response to genocide but always a last resort.

Bernie's rise in the polls is due to his ability to present a forceful message to voters. I don't think that constitutional government is a government of presidential force. It is a government of the people's force. I think Bernie agrees on this.

This is the age of the internet. Social relationships are changing. For many reasons including the environmental threats that all of humanity faces, we are becoming a society in which cooperation is required for our survival. I think Bernie's views are so popular because he is very much attuned to the needs and spirit of our new age of the internet and our innovative technologies.

Force is important, but being able to inspire cooperation is more so in this day and age. I say that as one that passed the Google campus in the last week and am reminded of their approach to problem-solving. I think Bernie is in tune with our era.

3: If elected as a Democrat, will he govern as a Democrat. Or will he attempt to 'reach across the aisle,' 'form a bipartisan consensus' or other such caving in?


Bernie has put his agenda out there. You can find it at his website, Bernie Sanders, 2016 or Feel the Bern.com. You can also listen to his speeches.

Bernie is, of all the candidates, the least likely to just cave in on the issues. He is who he is, messy hair and rolled up sleeves and all. He is not going to sponsor some crazy and unnecessary law to outlaw flag burning just to please his Republican critics. He has been in government for over 30 years, both in an executive position to which he was elected to four successive two-year terms and in Congress to which he was elected in 1990. He ran as an Independent but caucused with Democrats, helped found the Progressive Democratic Congress and supported Democrats in elections on numerous occasions.

Bernie will govern as a Democrat. He will also appeal to Independents.

I hope I answered your questions. That is my judgment or opinion if you will.

Here, another source of information on Bernie which backs up my factual statements about him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

I am a life-long FDR Democrat, and I support Bernie Sanders.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 08:21 AM

10. As Mayor, he ran against a candidate who spent millions and won. He also ran against a candidate

whom both Democrats and Republicans united behind, for the purpose of unseating the independent Mayor, who was obviously beloved by the voters of Burlington, because they kept re-electing him, no matter what. (After he won his first election by only 8 votes--on a recount!) He won against the uniparty candidate, too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wolf Frankula (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 07:50 AM

8. Yes, yes, and yes.

 

Bernie understands all of this and more. After all, he has been in politics for more than 30 years!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wolf Frankula (Original post)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 09:09 AM

11. I think it so bizarre when people act as if Bernie has spent all of his political career in his

 

back yard, in Vermont. Your questions imply that. Bernie knows politics quite well. It is ridiculous to suggest he does not.
I think Hillary is quite politically strong, even rough - the thing is, I do not believe I would care for the things she uses that strength to accomplish. THAT is the problem, not attempting to paint Bernie as weak and Hillary as strong. I don't like her on the issues, and telling me she is strong enough to get done what SHE wants to get done just confirms that my support for Bernie is the right thing for me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to djean111 (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 09:31 AM

12. Amen.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to djean111 (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 9, 2015, 10:46 AM

13. ^^^this.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread